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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: more gold FR4

SubjectAuthor
* more gold FR4John Larkin
`* Re:more gold FR4Martin Rid
 +* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
 |`- Re: more gold FR4Ricky
 +- Re: more gold FR4rbowman
 `* Re: more gold FR4Jasen Betts
  +* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  |`* Re: more gold FR4Jan Panteltje
  | +* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |+* Re: more gold FR4Jeroen Belleman
  | ||`- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |+- Re: more gold FR4Jan Panteltje
  | |`* Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | | +* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | | |`* Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | | | `* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | | |  `* Re: more gold FR4Mike Monett
  | | |   `* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | | |    +- Re: more gold FR4Mike Monett
  | | |    +- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | | |    `- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | | `* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |  `* Re: more gold FR4Joe Gwinn
  | |   +* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |   |`* Re: more gold FR4Joe Gwinn
  | |   | `* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |   |  `* Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | |   |   `* Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |   |    `- Re: more gold FR4John Doe
  | |   +* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   |+* Re: more gold FR4John Miles, KE5FX
  | |   ||`* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   || `* Re: more gold FR4John Miles, KE5FX
  | |   ||  `- Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   |+* Re: more gold FR4Joe Gwinn
  | |   ||`* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   || `* Re: more gold FR4Joe Gwinn
  | |   ||  `* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   ||   `* Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | |   ||    `* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  | |   ||     `- Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | |   |`* Re: more gold FR4whit3rd
  | |   | `- Re: more gold FR4rbowman
  | |   +* Re: more gold FR4Jan Panteltje
  | |   |`- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  | |   `- Re: more gold FR4Jan Panteltje
  | `* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  |  +* Re: more gold FR4Rich S
  |  |+* Re: more gold FR4John Larkin
  |  ||`* Re: more gold FR4Gerhard Hoffmann
  |  || `* Re: more gold FR4John Larkin
  |  ||  `* Re: more gold FR4Gerhard Hoffmann
  |  ||   `- Re: more gold FR4John Larkin
  |  |+* Re: more gold FR4Gerhard Hoffmann
  |  ||`* Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  |  || `- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin
  |  |`* Re: more gold FR4whit3rd
  |  | `- Re: more gold FR4Phil Hobbs
  |  `- Re: more gold FR4Lasse Langwadt Christensen
  `* Re: more gold FR4John Walliker
   `- Re: more gold FR4jlarkin

Pages:123
Re: more gold FR4

<fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96500&group=sci.electronics.design#96500

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From: joegw...@comcast.net (Joe Gwinn)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400
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 by: Joe Gwinn - Sat, 7 May 2022 21:27 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> The big question is:
>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>> else it is just show.
>>>
>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>
>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>
>No thanks. I like the gold.

As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

Joe Gwinn

Re: more gold FR4

<58b68a05-5dde-4a5c-b258-920c4ba40d09n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: more gold FR4
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
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 by: whit3rd - Sat, 7 May 2022 21:41 UTC

On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Rich S wrote:

> ...I remember long ago a former
> co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
> mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
> non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
> other unrelated things.

Yeah, I recall that stuff; it just rubs on, and by electroless plating puts a bit
of silver on a copper surface. Don't see any suppliers, but this shows up
on a web search
<https://www.protext.com//Metals/SilverChloridePlating1.htm>

Re: more gold FR4

<h4ud7h5oiht65ioliibf24pg71oa8bh1om@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sat, 7 May 2022 23:01 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>
>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>
>>No thanks. I like the gold.
>
>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>
>Joe Gwinn

I only need to please myself.

And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
with a potential customer. They were very impressed.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0

It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: more gold FR4

<jdodvcFhnkpU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
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 by: rbowman - Sat, 7 May 2022 22:42 UTC

On 05/07/2022 01:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> rbowman wrote:
>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
>>>>>>> message:r
>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for
>>>>>>>> protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels
>>>>>>>> nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min
>>>>>>>> order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with
>>>>>>>> certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> The big question is:
>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is
>>>> gold plated?
>>>> else it is just show.
>>>
>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>
>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>
> Doesn't work. You have to coat it first.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
https://electrolube.com/knowledge_base/what-are-conformal-coatings/
https://www.techspray.com/the-essential-guide-to-conformal-coating

Re: more gold FR4

<18426cab-1e33-d9b4-5d5f-d6914c39dce5@electrooptical.net>

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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 20:07:35 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <jdodvcFhnkpU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 00:07 UTC

rbowman wrote:
> On 05/07/2022 01:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> rbowman wrote:
>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
>>>>>>>> message:r
>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for
>>>>>>>>> protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels
>>>>>>>>> nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with
>>>>>>>>> certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be
>>>>>>>>> content to
>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>  plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and
>>>>>> solder
>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is
>>>>> gold plated?
>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>
>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>
>> Doesn't work.  You have to coat it first.

>>
> https://electrolube.com/knowledge_base/what-are-conformal-coatings/
> https://www.techspray.com/the-essential-guide-to-conformal-coating

I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
often, as I said upthread.

Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 88
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 00:10 UTC

Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>
>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>
>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>
> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
underneath are good?

You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

<XnsAE90E8919B5EEidtokenpost@144.76.35.252>

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From: spa...@not.com (Mike Monett)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 02:51:58 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike Monett - Sun, 8 May 2022 02:51 UTC

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

[...]

> I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
> often, as I said upthread.
>
> Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
> fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.
>
> You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

(need to plan my next crime:)

--
MRM

Re: more gold FR4

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Subject: Re: more gold FR4
From: jmi...@gmail.com (John Miles, KE5FX)
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 by: John Miles, KE5FX - Sun, 8 May 2022 02:56 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
> underneath are good?

> http://hobbs-eo.com

Guess you never had the chance to see the Jim Williams workbench exhibit
at CHM. Bummer.

The electrons don't care about aesthetics and the photons will get over it.
The customers might, but you don't want those sorts of customers anyway.

-- john, KE5fx

Re: more gold FR4

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 05:23:07 GMT
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sun, 8 May 2022 05:23 UTC

On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
<joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:

>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

Its a good investment....
https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

Re: more gold FR4

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From: pNaonStp...@yahoo.com (Jan Panteltje)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
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 by: Jan Panteltje - Sun, 8 May 2022 05:29 UTC

On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
<joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:

>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

Its a good investment....
https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

But you cannot eat gold, better have some prepper stuff too.
As enjineers keep some trannies and a solar powered solderig iron.
ehh
Any day now

Re: more gold FR4

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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Message-ID: <7667f38e-a143-a749-be75-6814d6857334@electrooptical.net>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 01:36:19 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 05:36 UTC

Mike Monett wrote:
> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
>> often, as I said upthread.
>>
>> Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
>> fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.
>>
>> You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.
>>
>
> So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?
>
> (need to plan my next crime:)

I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some
Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.

Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
like a bare board.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

<02b05245-4e10-a1b6-1efa-0167f4860db5@electrooptical.net>

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Subject: Re: more gold FR4
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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Message-ID: <02b05245-4e10-a1b6-1efa-0167f4860db5@electrooptical.net>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 01:42:28 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 05:42 UTC

John Miles, KE5FX wrote:
> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
>> underneath are good?
>
>> http://hobbs-eo.com
>
> Guess you never had the chance to see the Jim Williams workbench exhibit
> at CHM. Bummer.

I've seen photos of it. My bench isn't super neat either, but most of
my stuff has microwave transistors in it these days, so I don't use that
many huge through-hole parts anymore.

> The electrons don't care about aesthetics and the photons will get over it.
> The customers might, but you don't want those sorts of customers anyway.
>
> -- john, KE5fx

Au contraire. A nice-looking dead bug gizmo in an aluminum stomp box is
easy to make and IME really makes the punters take an interest in how
the gizmo works.

I only bother if it's for a POC proto. For little testers and stuff
like that, I don't much care about the fingerprints.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

<XnsAE91451AEA8CAidtokenpost@144.76.35.252>

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From: spa...@not.com (Mike Monett)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 10:47:38 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mike Monett - Sun, 8 May 2022 10:47 UTC

Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

> Mike Monett wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
>>> often, as I said upthread.
>>>
>>> Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
>>> fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.
>>>
>>> You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.
>>>
>>
>> So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?
>>
>> (need to plan my next crime:)
>
> I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some
> Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.
>
> Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
> dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
> like a bare board.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs

Thanks!

--
MRM

Re: more gold FR4

<u5kf7h5unrq7kq230np8022mch0a7lglmv@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 07:16:35 -0700
Message-ID: <u5kf7h5unrq7kq230np8022mch0a7lglmv@4ax.com>
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:16 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 01:36:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Mike Monett wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
>>> often, as I said upthread.
>>>
>>> Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
>>> fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.
>>>
>>> You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.
>>>
>>
>> So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?
>>
>> (need to plan my next crime:)
>
>I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some
>Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.
>
>Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
>dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
>like a bare board.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: more gold FR4

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Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 07:19:16 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:19 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 01:36:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Mike Monett wrote:
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
>>> often, as I said upthread.
>>>
>>> Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
>>> fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.
>>>
>>> You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.
>>>
>>
>> So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?
>>
>> (need to plan my next crime:)
>
>I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some
>Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.
>
>Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
>dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
>like a bare board.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

Dead bug is confusing, not to mention insect cruelty.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9av93ul8148zdjm/Z356_SN2.JPG?raw=1

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: more gold FR4

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Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 07:22:32 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:22 UTC

On Sun, 08 May 2022 05:23:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:
>
>>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>
>Its a good investment....
> https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

ENIG has a few micro-inches of gold. Not worth much.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: more gold FR4

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 by: Joe Gwinn - Sun, 8 May 2022 19:06 UTC

On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>
>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>
>>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>>
>> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>
>So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
>underneath are good?
>
>You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.

But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
out, make change, pour wax back in.

Joe Gwinn

Re: more gold FR4

<k55g7hhbotthj2ii498qg768q0iif7gq8o@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96559&group=sci.electronics.design#96559

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 14:10:38 -0500
From: joegw...@comcast.net (Joe Gwinn)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400
Message-ID: <k55g7hhbotthj2ii498qg768q0iif7gq8o@4ax.com>
References: <ujg57h5m90tqdkijldh4hi7oi91p4u5msh@4ax.com> <t50t6j$i8n$1@dont-email.me> <t532n2$hvp$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com> <t53b0m$3mj$1@dont-email.me> <22ca7hh5pnch8m0a3mk8q7jqvnu9setseb@4ax.com> <jdm5oeF4j2vU1@mid.individual.net> <2qkd7hps5c8u4jo2f545eo8i4r2t35376s@4ax.com> <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com> <h4ud7h5oiht65ioliibf24pg71oa8bh1om@4ax.com>
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 by: Joe Gwinn - Sun, 8 May 2022 19:10 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>
>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>
>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>
>>>No thanks. I like the gold.
>>
>>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
>I only need to please myself.
>
>And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
>with a potential customer. They were very impressed.
>
><https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?
>
>It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
>makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
dremel line freehand?

Joe Gwinn

Re: more gold FR4

<f041e6b2-4d92-b422-854f-fbec98c0fa66@electrooptical.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96560&group=sci.electronics.design#96560

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 15:01:18 -0500
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
References: <ujg57h5m90tqdkijldh4hi7oi91p4u5msh@4ax.com>
<t50t6j$i8n$1@dont-email.me> <t532n2$hvp$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org>
<g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com> <t53b0m$3mj$1@dont-email.me>
<22ca7hh5pnch8m0a3mk8q7jqvnu9setseb@4ax.com>
<jdm5oeF4j2vU1@mid.individual.net>
<2qkd7hps5c8u4jo2f545eo8i4r2t35376s@4ax.com>
<fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>
<dcee3bf5-3d28-3235-2fe8-aec790405764@electrooptical.net>
<ds4g7h5glbk0d0egi1nug135nsvvqvm3vl@4ax.com>
From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Message-ID: <f041e6b2-4d92-b422-854f-fbec98c0fa66@electrooptical.net>
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 16:01:18 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:01 UTC

Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>>
>>>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>>>
>>> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>
>> So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
>> underneath are good?
>>
>> You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)
>
> Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.
>
> But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
> privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
> where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
> mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
> out, make change, pour wax back in.
>
> Joe Gwinn

Depends.

Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood glucose
measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my drawer and
dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had some purchased
parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle from Servo City, a
diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a Thinkpad from eBay.

The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all up,
including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
construction, software, and informal clinical demo. (I had a few
friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our blood signals every
half hour or so. The data were crunched by some machine learning folks
from USC into good-looking data that matched the physiological estimates
based on sex, body mass and consumption rate.

Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
expired--I may revisit it once they do.)

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

<etcg7h5u272m4u4kupclh6f9p4gljduntb@4ax.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96568&group=sci.electronics.design#96568

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 16:24:48 -0500
From: joegw...@comcast.net (Joe Gwinn)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 17:24:47 -0400
Message-ID: <etcg7h5u272m4u4kupclh6f9p4gljduntb@4ax.com>
References: <t50t6j$i8n$1@dont-email.me> <t532n2$hvp$1@gonzo.revmaps.no-ip.org> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com> <t53b0m$3mj$1@dont-email.me> <22ca7hh5pnch8m0a3mk8q7jqvnu9setseb@4ax.com> <jdm5oeF4j2vU1@mid.individual.net> <2qkd7hps5c8u4jo2f545eo8i4r2t35376s@4ax.com> <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com> <dcee3bf5-3d28-3235-2fe8-aec790405764@electrooptical.net> <ds4g7h5glbk0d0egi1nug135nsvvqvm3vl@4ax.com> <f041e6b2-4d92-b422-854f-fbec98c0fa66@electrooptical.net>
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 by: Joe Gwinn - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:24 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:01:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>>>>
>>>> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>>
>>> So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
>>> underneath are good?
>>>
>>> You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)
>>
>> Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.
>>
>> But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
>> privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
>> where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
>> mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
>> out, make change, pour wax back in.
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
>Depends.
>
>Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood glucose
>measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my drawer and
>dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had some purchased
>parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle from Servo City, a
>diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a Thinkpad from eBay.

I think you've described this in prior SED postings.

>The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all up,
>including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
>construction, software, and informal clinical demo.

For $70K, there was more than just you involved I assume.

> (I had a few
>friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our blood signals every
>half hour or so. The data were crunched by some machine learning folks
>from USC into good-looking data that matched the physiological estimates
>based on sex, body mass and consumption rate.
>
>Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)

But remembers little else?

>
>(The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
>expired--I may revisit it once they do.)

So you are free to use them?

Joe Gwinn

Re: more gold FR4

<i3eg7hlc65ulcelt2bofqgkv06vp57k81f@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96572&group=sci.electronics.design#96572

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
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Subject: Re: more gold FR4
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:41 UTC

On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>>
>>>>No thanks. I like the gold.
>>>
>>>As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>>
>>>Joe Gwinn
>>
>>I only need to please myself.
>>
>>And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
>>with a potential customer. They were very impressed.
>>
>><https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?
>>
>>It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
>>makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.
>
>It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.
>
>But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
>dremel line freehand?
>
>Joe Gwinn

That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: more gold FR4

<e4f82a98-632a-a22b-e6b7-55ba3b35770d@electrooptical.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96575&group=sci.electronics.design#96575

 copy link   Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 18:42:00 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Sun, 8 May 2022 22:42 UTC

Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:01:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

<sniiiip>
>> Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood
>> glucose measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my
>> drawer and dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had
>> some purchased parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle
>> from Servo City, a diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a
>> Thinkpad from eBay.
>
> I think you've described this in prior SED postings.

Yup. It's one of my most compelling technical war stories. (At least I
don't get tired of telling it--listener mileage may vary!) ;)

Last time we talked about it was in early 2020:
<https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.design/c/q29AQaupCyw/m/_R5bev3ZDQAJ>.

>> The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all
>> up, including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
>> construction, software, and informal clinical demo.
>
> For $70K, there was more than just you involved I assume.

Nope, just me. There were a few parts involved, some late nights, and
of course the statutory minimum quantity of JB Weld. ;) It was neatly
trimmed and painted flat black to make it less obvious.

>> (I had a few friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our
>> blood signals every half hour or so. The data were crunched by
>> some machine learning folks from USC into good-looking data that
>> matched the physiological estimates based on sex, body mass and
>> consumption rate.
>>
>> Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)
>
> But remembers little else?

He was in California at the time.

>> (The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
>> expired--I may revisit it once they do.)
>
> So you are free to use them?

Not till they expire. The founder got into the glue with some of his
former investors, so the patent ownership is very unclear at this point.
Thus it isn't worth pursuing, at least not without a lot of backing.

I'd also need some machine learning folks to help out, because IIRC the
detection algorithm wasn't anything straightforward such as spectral
differencing. I wasn't privy to that part of the scheme, so it would
have to be reinvented.

Great gizmo though!

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: more gold FR4

<jdrb08F3vnoU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96581&group=sci.electronics.design#96581

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 20:01:43 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Mon, 9 May 2022 02:01 UTC

On 05/08/2022 03:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>>>>
>>>> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>>>
>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>
>>> I only need to please myself.
>>>
>>> And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
>>> with a potential customer. They were very impressed.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?
>>>
>>> It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
>>> makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.
>>
>> It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.
>>
>> But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
>> dremel line freehand?
>>
>> Joe Gwinn
>
> That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.
>
>
>
https://www.tinaja.com/flut01.shtml

Now what you do first is build an x/y axis milling machine and program
it in PostScript...

Re: more gold FR4

<jdrcmcF49q3U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96584&group=sci.electronics.design#96584

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 20:30:35 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Mon, 9 May 2022 02:30 UTC

On 05/08/2022 04:42 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Nope, just me. There were a few parts involved, some late nights, and
> of course the statutory minimum quantity of JB Weld. ;) It was neatly
> trimmed and painted flat black to make it less obvious.
>

Was it a one-off or did your client intend to go into production?

I did a project for a woman who was interested in Kirlian photography.
My non-professional opinion was she was nuttier than a fruitcake but her
money spend as well as any and she was happy with the outcome.

At times I took a pass when I knew I couldn't deliver. For example one
person wanted to develop a PPG heart rate monitor. It was a perfectly
valid idea as evidenced by the number of devices on the market today but
wasn't feasible in the '80s, at least not at the level of
miniaturization for a consumer product.

Re: more gold FR4

<v01h7hhd135hoqmgeink6mmmji7gf26m14@4ax.com>

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 22:05:01 -0500
From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: more gold FR4
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 20:05:01 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 03:05 UTC

On Sun, 8 May 2022 20:01:43 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On 05/08/2022 03:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>>>>>>>> <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
>>>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
>>>>>>>>> <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
>>>>>>>>>> <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
>>>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
>>>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
>>>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Seems kind of messy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
>>>>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
>>>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The big question is:
>>>>>>>>> What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
>>>>>>>>> else it is just show.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
>>>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beautiful things work better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No thanks. I like the gold.
>>>>>
>>>>> As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
>>>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
>>>>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>
>>>> I only need to please myself.
>>>>
>>>> And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
>>>> with a potential customer. They were very impressed.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?
>>>>
>>>> It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
>>>> makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.
>>>
>>> It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.
>>>
>>> But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
>>> dremel line freehand?
>>>
>>> Joe Gwinn
>>
>> That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.
>>
>>
>>
>https://www.tinaja.com/flut01.shtml
>
>Now what you do first is build an x/y axis milling machine and program
>it in PostScript...
>

We have a Tormach n/c milling machine that can do PCBs. And I was
toying with a pantogtraph-Dremel thing. But freehand is a lot faster
than either.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

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