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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: How much current to kill an insect?

SubjectAuthor
* How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
|+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
||`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
|| `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
|`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?g_wolf
| +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
| |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?jlarkin
| | +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
| | |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
| | | `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
| | `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
| `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John S
|  `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?jlarkin
 +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Larkin
 | +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Walliker
 | |+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Phil Hobbs
 | ||+- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Larkin
 | || +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | || |+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Larkin
 | || ||`- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | || |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
 | || | `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | || |  `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Mike Coon
 | || |   `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | || `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Phil Hobbs
 | |+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Larkin
 | ||`- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | |+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Phil Hobbs
 | |||`- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | || `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | ||  `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||   `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | ||    `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||     `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | ||      `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||       `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | ||        `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||         `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | ||          `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | ||           `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Ed Lee
 | |+- Re: How much current to kill an insect?DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
 | |`- Re: How much current to kill an insect?John S
 | +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?whit3rd
 | |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John Larkin
 | | +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | | |+* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Lasse Langwadt Christensen
 | | ||`- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | | |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?jlarkin
 | | | `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | | `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Jan Panteltje
 | +- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | +- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Phil Allison
 | +* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Martin Brown
 | |`* Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | | `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?bitrex
 | |  `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 | `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John S
 |  `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey
 +- Re: How much current to kill an insect?DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno
 `* Re: How much current to kill an insect?John S
  `- Re: How much current to kill an insect?Commander Kinsey

Pages:123
Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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From: grav...@mjcoon.plus.com (Mike Coon)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 19:35:50 +0100
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 by: Mike Coon - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:35 UTC

In article <ck0d7hd163ukc16cqrasdq0jnl5sqnipvd@4ax.com>,
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...
>
> I wonder what this is:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1
>
> We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.

Certainly a spider! The shape of many. Not that I'm an expert in any
case...

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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From: grav...@mjcoon.plus.com (Mike Coon)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 19:39:10 +0100
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 by: Mike Coon - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:39 UTC

In article <op.1ls4v6yxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 10:36:21 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <op.1lrt7ibcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
> >>
> >> I live in Scotland. If you don't, you don't know what a mosquito is.
> >
> > I'm waiting for a Scot to invent a small dirigible modelled on a basking
> > shark crossed with a Dyson vacuum. It would patrol up and down hoovering
> > up the midges into a net...
>
> ROFL! Actually there have been many attempts to cull mosquitoes, or midges, can't remember which, in Scotland. Can't find a link since those sort of searches are flooded out with how to stop them getting you on holiday.
>
> I have the answer. Lifesystems Expedition 100+ - a spray you put on your bare flesh. Nothing will land on you. Even works on horses - I recommended it to a horser around here and she tried it! Keeps the flies off them.

Oh, I thought for a moment you were referring to one of those winged
horses...

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 13:41:32 -0500
From: grav...@mjcoon.plus.com (Mike Coon)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 19:41:31 +0100
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 by: Mike Coon - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:41 UTC

In article <op.1ls4y8e1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 15:32:27 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:41:01 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> In article <2TodK.6666$t72a.1025@fx10.iad>, g_wolf@howl.com says...
> >>>
> >>> On 5/6/2022 10:31 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
> >>> > In article <op.1lqyzpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
> >>> > requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
> >>> >
> >>> > Is your electrostatic voltmeter leaky? It should only "draw" a charge,
> >>> > not a current.
> >>> >
> >>> > BTW I don't want my wasps fried, because then the spider to which I
> >>> > offer them is not interested. They have to wake up and flutter, then she
> >>> > swoops and bites...
> >>>
> >>> Cool ! What kinda spider you got. :-)
> >>
> >> It's called a noble false widow
> >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_nobilis). Not native to the UK
> >> but spreading. When they have egg sacs that hatch into armies of
> >> spiderlings that is when they get hoovered up...
> >
> > I wonder what this is:
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1
> >
> > We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.
>
> I kill the insects to starve the spiders.

Did you read the wikipedia article about "my" spider and their ability
to bite people? Better to keep them well fed, methinks...

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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<epha7h51vj4dlf31dhoui1tvt7di4qoem1@4ax.com> <op.1lq9x703mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>
<1kqa7h5cebpr9oe1q6qj7hsl49ig12l8no@4ax.com>
<e03541ea-d7d2-417a-a8af-0eef526f9432n@googlegroups.com>
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:45 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
>> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
>> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
>> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
>> >>>
>> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
>> >>> threshold of death.
>> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
>
> Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?

mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

> So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.

That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

What battery is 200V and 3A?!

> I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
>
> How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?

To stop a car theif, use kV.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:45 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:39:10 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

> In article <op.1ls4v6yxmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>>
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 10:36:21 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>> > In article <op.1lrt7ibcmvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>> >>
>> >> I live in Scotland. If you don't, you don't know what a mosquito is.
>> >
>> > I'm waiting for a Scot to invent a small dirigible modelled on a basking
>> > shark crossed with a Dyson vacuum. It would patrol up and down hoovering
>> > up the midges into a net...
>>
>> ROFL! Actually there have been many attempts to cull mosquitoes, or midges, can't remember which, in Scotland. Can't find a link since those sort of searches are flooded out with how to stop them getting you on holiday.
>>
>> I have the answer. Lifesystems Expedition 100+ - a spray you put on your bare flesh. Nothing will land on you. Even works on horses - I recommended it to a horser around here and she tried it! Keeps the flies off them.
>
> Oh, I thought for a moment you were referring to one of those winged
> horses...

Yes, I have a severe problem with looking very much like a horse runway.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:46 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:41:31 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:

> In article <op.1ls4y8e1mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>>
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 15:32:27 +0100, <jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Sat, 7 May 2022 10:41:01 +0100, Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <2TodK.6666$t72a.1025@fx10.iad>, g_wolf@howl.com says...
>> >>>
>> >>> On 5/6/2022 10:31 AM, Mike Coon wrote:
>> >>> > In article <op.1lqyzpe3mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>, CK1@nospam.com says...
>> >>> > requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Is your electrostatic voltmeter leaky? It should only "draw" a charge,
>> >>> > not a current.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > BTW I don't want my wasps fried, because then the spider to which I
>> >>> > offer them is not interested. They have to wake up and flutter, then she
>> >>> > swoops and bites...
>> >>>
>> >>> Cool ! What kinda spider you got. :-)
>> >>
>> >> It's called a noble false widow
>> >> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steatoda_nobilis). Not native to the UK
>> >> but spreading. When they have egg sacs that hatch into armies of
>> >> spiderlings that is when they get hoovered up...
>> >
>> > I wonder what this is:
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/e7q18eo1al8n3x4/Take-out.jpg?raw=1
>> >
>> > We have almost no insects inside. The few spiders eat all the rest.
>>
>> I kill the insects to starve the spiders.
>
> Did you read the wikipedia article about "my" spider and their ability
> to bite people? Better to keep them well fed, methinks...

Shoe beats spider.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
From: edward.m...@gmail.com (Ed Lee)
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 by: Ed Lee - Sat, 7 May 2022 18:56 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
> >> >>> >>
> >> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
> >> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
> >> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
> >> >>> threshold of death.
> >> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
> >
> > Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
> mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.

OK, GFCI.

> > So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
> That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.

I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.

> What battery is 200V and 3A?!

Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.

> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
> >
> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
> To stop a car theif, use kV.

To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 21:35 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
>> >> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
>> >> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
>> >> >>> threshold of death.
>> >> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
>> >
>> > Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
>> mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.
>
> OK, GFCI.

Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let's change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It's sure to sell more to gullible folk.

>> > So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
>> That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.
>
> I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.

Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I've done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).

>> What battery is 200V and 3A?!
>
> Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.

What is this used for? I've never heard of such high voltage batteries.

>> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
>> >
>> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
>> To stop a car theif, use kV.
>
> To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.

Use an inverter.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
From: edward.m...@gmail.com (Ed Lee)
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 by: Ed Lee - Sat, 7 May 2022 21:47 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail..com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart.. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
> >> >> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
> >> >> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
> >> >> >>> threshold of death.
> >> >> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
> >> >
> >> > Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
> >> mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.
> >
> > OK, GFCI.
> Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let's change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It's sure to sell more to gullible folk.

Everybody know it by that name here.

> >> > So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
> >> That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.
> >
> > I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
> Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I've done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
> >> What battery is 200V and 3A?!
> >
> > Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
> What is this used for? I've never heard of such high voltage batteries.

It's custom build.

> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
> >> >
> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
> >
> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
> Use an inverter.

It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 22:04 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
>> >> >> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >> >> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
>> >> >> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
>> >> >> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
>> >> >> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
>> >> >> >>> threshold of death.
>> >> >> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
>> >> >
>> >> > Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
>> >> mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.
>> >
>> > OK, GFCI.
>> Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let's change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It's sure to sell more to gullible folk.
>
> Everybody know it by that name here.

Yeah well America isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. You call live hot!

>> >> > So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
>> >> That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.
>> >
>> > I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
>> Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I've done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
>> >> What battery is 200V and 3A?!
>> >
>> > Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
>> What is this used for? I've never heard of such high voltage batteries.
>
> It's custom build.

For what purpose?

>> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
>> >> >
>> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
>> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
>> >
>> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
>> Use an inverter.
>
> It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.

Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
From: edward.m...@gmail.com (Ed Lee)
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 by: Ed Lee - Sat, 7 May 2022 22:29 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:09:46 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 23:02:40 +0100, Commander Kinsey <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Fri, 06 May 2022 20:02:11 +0100, John Walliker <jrwal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 19:44:05 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:40:45 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >> >> >>> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> >On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:06:28 +0100, <jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> >> On Fri, 06 May 2022 13:44:03 +0100, "Commander Kinsey"
> >> >> >> >>> >> <C...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >>> >>> I'm talking about the bug zappers. I have a mains one which makes 2000V. I have a USB one which makes 1700V. I can and have measured those. The mains one is very effective, I see it frying wasps. I haven't had the opportunity to see the USB one in action yet and I'm wondering if it will do anything useful. How much current is required to kill the insect? I know 80mA+ is needed to kill a human through the heart, but I get the feeling with insects the death requires evaporation, not just stopping the heart. I could connect a milliammeter across the USB one's output, but I don't want to break the meter if there's a strong pulse to start with. The USB one states 1A 5V input, so the output couldn't continuously exceed only 3mA, unless it drops to 100V and gives out 50mA, and the output drops from 1700V to 0V immediately I turn it off (with an antique electrostatic voltmeter connected which may draw a bit).
> >> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >>> >> It's energy, from a capacitor, not current that kills bugs.
> >> >> >> >>> >>
> >> >> >> >>> >> The cap charging current is likely microamps.
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> >Since when I unplug the USB cord, the voltage drops to 0 instantly, I doubt there's a cap in it.
> >> >> >> >>> It wouldn't be hard to measure. Or google.
> >> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >> >>> >The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected to the rails.
> >> >> >> >>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> One outfit that I work with considers 9 joules the be the human
> >> >> >> >>> threshold of death.
> >> >> >> Strange way to measure it. If you took 9 joules over a period of 1 hour, it wouldn't kill you. Surely current is a better measure? 80mA stops the heart I believe, which is why breakers trip at 30 or 50.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Circuit breakers trip at 30A or 50A, right?
> >> >> mA, I was obviously talking about the earth leakage variety. The 30A/50A ones are overload breakers to stop fires when you melt wires.
> >> >
> >> > OK, GFCI.
> >> Yeah if you want to call it that weird name. Let's change earth to ground, leakage to fault, and breaker to interrupter. It's sure to sell more to gullible folk.
> >
> > Everybody know it by that name here.
> Yeah well America isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. You call live hot!
> >> >> > So, is 600W (200V 3A) battery safe? I got shocked a few times, especially when my fingers are wet. It wasn't bad enough to kill me, or i would not be posting this.
> >> >> That should be able to kill you, but it has to pass through your heart, and you need a weak heart.
> >> >
> >> > I try to be careful to touch it with only one hand.
> >> Then you get a warm hand, no big deal. I've done that with 240V mains (no not the pansy 120V USA shit).
> >> >> What battery is 200V and 3A?!
> >> >
> >> > Half of a 400V battery, fused to 3A. Slow charging into 400V 66Ah.
> >> What is this used for? I've never heard of such high voltage batteries..
> >
> > It's custom build.
> For what purpose?

Right size and weight to carry, load and unload. 3"x5"x28", 10 pounds, 600Wh each.

> >> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
> >> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
> >> >
> >> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
> >> Use an inverter.
> >
> > It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
> Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?

Only if they know what's inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I'll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.

There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

<op.1ltnblb4mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 7 May 2022 23:24 UTC

On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
>> >> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
>> >> >
>> >> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
>> >> Use an inverter.
>> >
>> > It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
>> Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?
>
> Only if they know what's inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I'll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.
>
> There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.

Is this a car or a tank?

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
From: edward.m...@gmail.com (Ed Lee)
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 by: Ed Lee - Sun, 8 May 2022 00:08 UTC

On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
> >> >> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
> >> >> Use an inverter.
> >> >
> >> > It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
> >> Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?
> >
> > Only if they know what's inside. The doors are internally double locked.. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I'll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.
> >
> > There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
> Is this a car or a tank?

Urban tank that looks like a car.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

<d2JdK.58027$XU1.17149@fx09.iad>

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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 by: bitrex - Sun, 8 May 2022 06:02 UTC

On 5/7/2022 12:42 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:

>>>> The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected
>>>> to the rails.
>>>
>>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
>>
>> They are potentially. But the safety interlocks are quite good to stop
>> humans whilst still allowing flies and insects free access.
>>
>> A stately home come country house hotel was seriously damaged by an
>> accumulation of dead flies in such a device a couple of years back.
>>
>> You can smell burning insect it it gets a particularly big moth. UV
>> fluoro light trap and HT bars - looks to me like a neon driver
>> transformer soa  couple of mA at a fairly high voltage.
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29702125
>>
>> We have them in our VH. Emptying the dead fly trays was moved up the
>> important routine checks list after that fire.
>
> I empty mine twice a year, whether it needs it or not.

BTW Dr. Frankenstein most states often have animal cruelty laws that if
interpreted from an "originalist" POV apply even to insects.

That is to say you can vaporize an insect or let it go but if you hook
USB probes up to them while administering shocks on the regular someone
may at some point want to see a license for that, lol

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sun, 8 May 2022 10:55 UTC

On Sun, 08 May 2022 07:02:49 +0100, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

> On 5/7/2022 12:42 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>
>>>>> The mains one is just a 240V to 2000V transformer directly connected
>>>>> to the rails.
>>>>
>>>> That sounds lethal to bugs and to humans. And a fire hazard.
>>>
>>> They are potentially. But the safety interlocks are quite good to stop
>>> humans whilst still allowing flies and insects free access.
>>>
>>> A stately home come country house hotel was seriously damaged by an
>>> accumulation of dead flies in such a device a couple of years back.
>>>
>>> You can smell burning insect it it gets a particularly big moth. UV
>>> fluoro light trap and HT bars - looks to me like a neon driver
>>> transformer soa couple of mA at a fairly high voltage.
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-29702125
>>>
>>> We have them in our VH. Emptying the dead fly trays was moved up the
>>> important routine checks list after that fire.
>>
>> I empty mine twice a year, whether it needs it or not.
>
> BTW Dr. Frankenstein most states often have animal cruelty laws that if
> interpreted from an "originalist" POV apply even to insects.
>
> That is to say you can vaporize an insect or let it go but if you hook
> USB probes up to them while administering shocks on the regular someone
> may at some point want to see a license for that, lol

Same bullshit here in the UK. It's legal to kill mice and rats with poison that dehydrates them slowly and painfully over 3 days. But do the same by using a human trap and not letting them go, which has the same effect, gets you a visit from a moany animal cruelty person.

In Australia on an episode of reality TV, they were feeding kangeroo anus to the contestants, but when one dared to kill a rat in a non-humane way, that was somehow wrong? They can't tell the difference in intelligence between a rat (disease carrying vermin) and a kangeroo (national emblem).

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

<op.1lujb1f7mvhs6z@ryzen.lan>

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sun, 8 May 2022 10:56 UTC

On Sun, 08 May 2022 01:08:19 +0100, Ed Lee <edward.ming.lee@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
>> >> >> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
>> >> >> Use an inverter.
>> >> >
>> >> > It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
>> >> Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?
>> >
>> > Only if they know what's inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I'll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.
>> >
>> > There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
>> Is this a car or a tank?
>
> Urban tank that looks like a car.

Ah, so what yanks call a truck. Just a car. A truck weighs 50 tonnes.

Re: How much current to kill an insect?

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Subject: Re: How much current to kill an insect?
From: edward.m...@gmail.com (Ed Lee)
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 by: Ed Lee - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:56 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 3:56:23 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Sun, 08 May 2022 01:08:19 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 4:24:56 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 23:29:58 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 3:04:51 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 22:47:06 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 2:35:26 PM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:56:42 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 11:45:21 AM UTC-7, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 07 May 2022 19:01:35 +0100, Ed Lee <edward....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> > I plan to have banks of 200V batteries attached to either side of the car door. In addition to better weight distribution, nobody should touch both (400V) at the same time. Furthermore, i can eject the doors in case of fire.
> >> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> > How about 200V 10A, 20A or 30A?
> >> >> >> >> To stop a car theif, use kV.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > To drive the car too. 200V is much safer to carry it around.
> >> >> >> Use an inverter.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It's more efficient that way. The batteries are charged off the vehicle, and load/unload in parallel with the main, without the need to charge/discharge the energy from the main. It would also keep the main batteries cooler, which is a real problem with repeated fast charging.
> >> >> Ah, an electric car? But could someone not steal the batteries from there?
> >> >
> >> > Only if they know what's inside. The doors are internally double locked. The windows are unbreakable lexan. The back (with the battery) is physically isolated from the front. I'll probably change the left rear window to metal with loading tubes.
> >> >
> >> > There were several break-in attempts, but i have not lose much stuffs except for the first time.
> >> Is this a car or a tank?
> >
> > Urban tank that looks like a car.
> Ah, so what yanks call a truck. Just a car. A truck weighs 50 tonnes.

Yes, weight is always a concern. Currently, i am using a 3"x1/2"x28" center wood frame. Two 2"x1/8"x24" acrylic plastic for mounting the terminal sharpnels. Two pieces back to back for around 3 pounds of weight. 48x 18650s add around 6 pounds. Perhaps aluminium outer shell casting for 3 to 4 pounds. It's roughly half the size and shape of a Javelin.

I haven't got to the loading unit yet, but i envision a 2 pins plug/socket with a center screw plunger/lock to retrieve/expunge the shell. So, the shell cannot be removed without the right access code. Also, the loading window will be aluminium, since i don't need to see through the window behind the driver seat.

Just received the security torx bit for the OBC (On Board Charger) where i can open it up and tap into the output capacitor. Also ordered some NTC surge protectors to protect it when the main power relay turns on and off. Eventually, it might be better to just tie into the main behind the relay, but i would have to remove and open up the main battery. The OBC is inside the passenger cabin where the back seats were.

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