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tech / sci.electronics.design / Re: TI new products

SubjectAuthor
* TI new productsjlarkin
+* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|+* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
||`* Re: TI new productsRicky
|| `* Re: TI new productsJeroen Belleman
||  +* Re: TI new productsRicky
||  |`* Re: TI new productsJeroen Belleman
||  | +- Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | +* Re: TI new productsDimiter_Popoff
||  | |+* Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | ||`* Re: TI new productsJohn Doe
||  | || `- Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | |+- Re: TI new productsJohn Walliker
||  | |`* Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
||  | | `* Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | |  +* Re: TI new productsClifford Heath
||  | |  |`* Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | |  | `* Re: TI new productsClifford Heath
||  | |  |  `- Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
||  | |  `* Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
||  | |   `* Re: TI new productsJeroen Belleman
||  | |    `* Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
||  | |     `- Re: TI new productsRicky
||  | `* Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
||  |  `* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
||  |   `- Re: TI new productsRicky
||  `- Re: TI new productsJoe Gwinn
|+* Re: TI new productsGerhard Hoffmann
||+- Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
||`- Re: TI new productsDimiter_Popoff
|`- Re: TI new productsFlyguy
+* Re: TI new productsDavid Brown
|`* Re: TI new productsJeroen Belleman
| `- Re: TI new productsRicky
+- Re: TI new productsbitrex
+* Re: TI new productsKlaus Kragelund
|+* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
||+- Re: TI new productsJohn Miles, KE5FX
||`- Re: TI new productsMichal
|`- Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
+* Re: TI new productsSergey Kubushyn
|+- Re: TI new productsPhil Allison
|+* Re: TI new productsJohann Klammer
||+- Re: TI new productsDimiter_Popoff
||`- Re: TI new productsbitrex
|+- Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|`* Re: TI new productsPiotr Wyderski
| `- Re: TI new productsjlarkin
+* Re: TI new productsFlyguy
|+- Re: TI new productswhit3rd
|`* Re: TI new productswhit3rd
| +* Re: TI new productsFlyguy
| |+* Re: TI new productsJohn Doe
| ||`- Re: TI new productsTabby
| |`- Re: TI new productsFlyguy
| +- Re: TI new productsPhil Hobbs
| `* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|  `* Re: TI new productsPhil Hobbs
|   `* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    +* Re: TI new productsPhil Hobbs
|    |+* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    ||+* Re: TI new productsTabby
|    |||`* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| +* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| |`* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    ||| | +* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |+* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | ||`- Re: TI new productsRicky
|    ||| | |`* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | | `* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |  `* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |   `* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |    `* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    ||| | |     `* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |      +* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    ||| | |      |+* Re: TI new productsDimiter_Popoff
|    ||| | |      ||`* Re: TI new productsJohn Larkin
|    ||| | |      || +* Re: TI new productsPhil Hobbs
|    ||| | |      || |`* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || | `* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |      || |  `* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || |   +- Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |      || |   `* Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |    +* Re: TI new productswhit3rd
|    ||| | |      || |    |+- Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |    |`* Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |    | `- Re: TI new productswhit3rd
|    ||| | |      || |    `* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || |     `* Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |      `* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || |       +* Re: TI new productsRicky
|    ||| | |      || |       |`- Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |       `* Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |        +* Re: TI new productsGerhard Hoffmann
|    ||| | |      || |        |`* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || |        | `* Re: TI new productsrbowman
|    ||| | |      || |        |  `- Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      || |        `- Re: TI new productswhit3rd
|    ||| | |      || +- Re: TI new productsDimiter_Popoff
|    ||| | |      || `* Re: TI new productsFlyguy
|    ||| | |      ||  `* Re: TI new productsjlarkin
|    ||| | |      |+- Re: TI new productsPhil Hobbs
|    ||| | |      |`* Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    ||| | |      `* Re: TI new productswhit3rd
|    ||| | `- Re: TI new productsRicky
|    ||| `- Re: TI new productsTabby
|    ||`- Re: TI new productsRicky
|    |`- Re: TI new productsJan Panteltje
|    `* Re: TI new productswhit3rd
`- Re: TI new productsboB

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Re: TI new products

<osf57hpg7tt98v1g5lae5bpv7cj54h77la@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96266&group=sci.electronics.design#96266

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 11:09:52 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Wed, 4 May 2022 18:09 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:16:26 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On 05/03/2022 08:16 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> Why do so many people refuse to imagine progress? 100 years ago you
>> would have refused to believe that there could ever be TVs or
>> computers.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDTeoeWZeI
>
>Where the hell is my flying car? My baseline is the 1964 World's Fair. I
>was in high school so maybe I was young and naive but there was a
>feeling in the air of optimism. There have been plenty of technological
>advances but that optimism didn't even make it through the '60s.

I was at the '64 fair!

We got PCs, internet, drones, cell phones, LCD and Oled color TVs,
fiberoptics, nanometer ICs, medical advances, SUVs, social media, all
sorts of great-ish stuff.

What the great things have in common is that they were *not*
anticipated at the World's Fair. Futurism ain't what it used to be.

I'm still optimistic. There is plenty of stuff left to invent.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: TI new products

<79be54fc-dd9d-4e8d-ac5c-589ce1a19ba0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
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 by: whit3rd - Wed, 4 May 2022 18:16 UTC

On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:15:14 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

> 3. Rejecting new ideas is endemic to humanity, for several reasons.
> Fight that tendency if you want to design cool stuff.

Nonsense. One cannot appreciate a good idea without discerning the
faults of a bad idea. The word 'idea' covers all the contents of a conscious
mind, no one rejects 'new ideas' who IS connected to reality.

Re: TI new products

<5672cbc2-97c8-408b-95b7-9b6c66e554d0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: langw...@fonz.dk (Lasse Langwadt Christensen)
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 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Wed, 4 May 2022 18:17 UTC

onsdag den 4. maj 2022 kl. 20.10.05 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:16:26 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
>
> >On 05/03/2022 08:16 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> >> Why do so many people refuse to imagine progress? 100 years ago you
> >> would have refused to believe that there could ever be TVs or
> >> computers.
> >
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDTeoeWZeI
> >
> >Where the hell is my flying car? My baseline is the 1964 World's Fair. I
> >was in high school so maybe I was young and naive but there was a
> >feeling in the air of optimism. There have been plenty of technological
> >advances but that optimism didn't even make it through the '60s.
> I was at the '64 fair!
>
> We got PCs, internet, drones, cell phones, LCD and Oled color TVs,
> fiberoptics, nanometer ICs, medical advances, SUVs, social media, all
> sorts of great-ish stuff.
>
> What the great things have in common is that they were *not*
> anticipated at the World's Fair. Futurism ain't what it used to be.
>
> I'm still optimistic. There is plenty of stuff left to invent.

https://medium.com/swlh/everything-that-can-be-invented-has-been-invented-49c4376f548b

Re: TI new products

<5nl57hl60vjqdl5n42f8g3cks1sml4t6ap@4ax.com>

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 12:43:00 -0700
Organization: Highland Tech
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 by: John Larkin - Wed, 4 May 2022 19:43 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 11:16:52 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 6:15:14 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>> 3. Rejecting new ideas is endemic to humanity, for several reasons.
>> Fight that tendency if you want to design cool stuff.
>
>Nonsense.

You reject my idea! Obviously for one of the "several reasons."

Thanks for making my point.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: TI new products

<jdgucuF4k9kU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 21:25:21 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Thu, 5 May 2022 03:25 UTC

On 05/04/2022 12:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:16:26 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/03/2022 08:16 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> Why do so many people refuse to imagine progress? 100 years ago you
>>> would have refused to believe that there could ever be TVs or
>>> computers.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDTeoeWZeI
>>
>> Where the hell is my flying car? My baseline is the 1964 World's Fair. I
>> was in high school so maybe I was young and naive but there was a
>> feeling in the air of optimism. There have been plenty of technological
>> advances but that optimism didn't even make it through the '60s.
>
> I was at the '64 fair!
>
> We got PCs, internet, drones, cell phones, LCD and Oled color TVs,
> fiberoptics, nanometer ICs, medical advances, SUVs, social media, all
> sorts of great-ish stuff.
>
> What the great things have in common is that they were *not*
> anticipated at the World's Fair. Futurism ain't what it used to be.
>
> I'm still optimistic. There is plenty of stuff left to invent.
>

Oddly one thing I have always remembered was a hands on exhibit in Ma
Bell's pavilion. There were timers connected to a rotary dial and to the
new touch tone keypad so you could see how much faster the future was
going to be. Ma Bell is long gone but their keypad layout lives on.

Trivia: JFK kicked the fair countdown off by keying in '1964'. Not quite
'text 1964 to...'

I'm optimistic in the technical sense, not so much in the societal
sense. That seems to be SSDD, to use Stephen King's acronym which has
nothing to do with solid state drives.

Re: TI new products

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
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Subject: Re: TI new products
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Thu, 5 May 2022 04:41 UTC

On Wed, 4 May 2022 21:25:21 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On 05/04/2022 12:09 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 May 2022 20:16:26 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/03/2022 08:16 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>> Why do so many people refuse to imagine progress? 100 years ago you
>>>> would have refused to believe that there could ever be TVs or
>>>> computers.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDTeoeWZeI
>>>
>>> Where the hell is my flying car? My baseline is the 1964 World's Fair. I
>>> was in high school so maybe I was young and naive but there was a
>>> feeling in the air of optimism. There have been plenty of technological
>>> advances but that optimism didn't even make it through the '60s.
>>
>> I was at the '64 fair!
>>
>> We got PCs, internet, drones, cell phones, LCD and Oled color TVs,
>> fiberoptics, nanometer ICs, medical advances, SUVs, social media, all
>> sorts of great-ish stuff.
>>
>> What the great things have in common is that they were *not*
>> anticipated at the World's Fair. Futurism ain't what it used to be.
>>
>> I'm still optimistic. There is plenty of stuff left to invent.
>>
>
>Oddly one thing I have always remembered was a hands on exhibit in Ma
>Bell's pavilion. There were timers connected to a rotary dial and to the
>new touch tone keypad so you could see how much faster the future was
>going to be. Ma Bell is long gone but their keypad layout lives on.
>
>Trivia: JFK kicked the fair countdown off by keying in '1964'. Not quite
>'text 1964 to...'
>
>I'm optimistic in the technical sense, not so much in the societal
>sense. That seems to be SSDD, to use Stephen King's acronym which has
>nothing to do with solid state drives.

I think there was a Bell demo of using light for communications,
specifically shooting light through a long pipe that used thermal
gradients to keep it confined. This sort of anticipated fiberoptics.

There was a cool monorail sort of ride.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: TI new products

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Thu, 5 May 2022 08:23:32 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Thu, 5 May 2022 14:23 UTC

On 05/04/2022 10:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> I think there was a Bell demo of using light for communications,
> specifically shooting light through a long pipe that used thermal
> gradients to keep it confined. This sort of anticipated fiberoptics.
>

The concept had been around for a long time.

https://www.olympus-global.com/technology/museum/endo/?page=technology_museum

Glass tubes were also used to illuminate tight spots. Developing the
technology to create bundles of very thin fibers was the trick.

A lot of ideas are like that. The concept of an airplane had to wait for
relatively lightweight IC engines to happen.

> There was a cool monorail sort of ride.

Now for cool monorails -- in the early 1900's some people were working
on a monorail with gyroscopic stabilization. The big problem was each
car would need a gyroscope.

The idea never took off in the US. Other countries have impressive
systems including maglev designed. Most US monorails are basically
tourist attractions like Seattle, the Disney parks, Jacksonville, and
Las Vegas. Detroit's is much more expensive per passenger mile than buses.

I don't think the people mover at the Detroit airport qualifies as a
monorail. It's never been operating when I was there unfortunately.
Invariably my connections are between the two furthest apart gates.

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Thu, 5 May 2022 18:17 UTC

rbowman wrote:
> On 05/04/2022 10:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> I think there was a Bell demo of using light for communications,
>> specifically shooting light through a long pipe that used thermal
>> gradients to keep it confined. This sort of anticipated fiberoptics.
>>
>
> The concept had been around for a long time.
>
> https://www.olympus-global.com/technology/museum/endo/?page=technology_museum
>
>
> Glass tubes were also used to illuminate tight spots. Developing the
> technology to create bundles of very thin fibers was the trick.
>
> A lot of ideas are like that. The concept of an airplane had to wait for
> relatively lightweight IC engines to happen.
>
>> There was a cool monorail sort of ride.
>
> Now for cool monorails -- in the early 1900's some people were working
> on a monorail with gyroscopic stabilization. The big problem was each
> car would need a gyroscope.
>
> The idea never took off in the US. Other countries have impressive
> systems including maglev designed. Most US monorails are basically
> tourist attractions like Seattle, the Disney parks, Jacksonville, and
> Las Vegas. Detroit's is much more expensive per passenger mile than buses.
>
> I don't think the people mover at the Detroit airport qualifies as a
> monorail. It's never been operating when I was there unfortunately.
> Invariably my connections are between the two furthest apart gates.
>
>
>

I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
They're fun toys, but just toys.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: tabbyp...@gmail.com (Tabby)
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 by: Tabby - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:47 UTC

On Thursday, 28 April 2022 at 17:33:59 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:18:20 -0700 (PDT), Tabby <tabb...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, 27 April 2022 at 21:52:04 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> >> >> I want everything on one wireless network. Internet, phones, TV, wifi,
> >> >> home automation, cars, utility meters, security, webcams, everything.
> >> >>
> >> >> Privacy is over-rated.
> >> >>
> >> >Until your social credit score gets too low and they punt you from
> >> >everything at once.
> >> >
> >> >Cheers
> >> >
> >> >Phil Hobbs
> >> But they can't punt everyone. In the USA at least, people would still
> >> pay someone for the service and for bandwidth (I guess) so nobody
> >> would be in charge and someone loses revenue if they lose a customer.
> >>
> >> Capitalism will find a way.
> >
> >Dictatorship outranks capitalism.
> Dictators, like Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Putin, think they understand
> everything and then want to control everything. They kill hundreds of
> millions.
>
> "Capitalism" really means pluralism, letting lots of sane and crazy
> people try things to see what actually works.

Despite believing their own folly, dictators still outrank capitalism. Hence dictatorships are poorer.

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: tabbyp...@gmail.com (Tabby)
Injection-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 20:50:50 +0000
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 by: Tabby - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:50 UTC

On Thursday, 28 April 2022 at 20:16:32 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 02:00:41 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 12:56:42 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >
> >> I want everything on one wireless network. Internet, phones, TV, wifi,
> >> home automation, cars, utility meters, security, webcams, everything.
> >>
> >> Privacy is over-rated.
> >
> >That's a laugh; Internet range is out to near Earth orbit, and you want your
> >utility meters to compete for that against your TV remote control? One network
> >isn't the answer, any more than one TV channel is the answer.
> What we have is a mess. Many cell companies have various spotty
> coverage. Ditto cable TV and internet providers. Once people manage to
> get an internet provider, they have to install their own cables and
> wifi. Wires are strung on poles, sidewalks are dug up, dishes point
> everywhere and rust or get blown away. People pay for multiple
> services.
>
> One uniform microcell mesh system would eliminate all that.
>
> Imagine progress.

History consistently teaches us that one system means lack of competition or investment equals worse service.

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: tabbyp...@gmail.com (Tabby)
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 by: Tabby - Sun, 8 May 2022 20:52 UTC

On Thursday, 28 April 2022 at 20:43:44 UTC+1, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
> On 4/28/2022 22:16, John Larkin wrote:
> > On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 02:00:41 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 12:56:42 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
> >>
> >>> I want everything on one wireless network. Internet, phones, TV, wifi,
> >>> home automation, cars, utility meters, security, webcams, everything.
> >>>
> >>> Privacy is over-rated.
> >>
> >> That's a laugh; Internet range is out to near Earth orbit, and you want your
> >> utility meters to compete for that against your TV remote control? One network
> >> isn't the answer, any more than one TV channel is the answer.
> >
> > What we have is a mess. Many cell companies have various spotty
> > coverage. Ditto cable TV and internet providers. Once people manage to
> > get an internet provider, they have to install their own cables and
> > wifi. Wires are strung on poles, sidewalks are dug up, dishes point
> > everywhere and rust or get blown away. People pay for multiple
> > services.
> >
> > One uniform microcell mesh system would eliminate all that.
> >
> > Imagine progress.
> >
> It would be nice for things to evolve this way but - and it is a huge
> BUT - the standards need to be public. They are anything but at the
> moment - the layers above IP and perhaps PPP are completely secret.
>
> Privacy is overrated, as you say

Privacy is what stops governments harrassing us with endless false accusations

> - I'd go a step further and say
> privacy will disappear completely before we know, however it has to
> disappear for *everyone*, *zero* exceptions.

It's already mostly gone.

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: tabbyp...@gmail.com (Tabby)
Injection-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 21:24:05 +0000
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 by: Tabby - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:24 UTC

On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 15:23:37 UTC+1, rbowman wrote:
> On 05/04/2022 10:41 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > I think there was a Bell demo of using light for communications,
> > specifically shooting light through a long pipe that used thermal
> > gradients to keep it confined. This sort of anticipated fiberoptics.
> >
> The concept had been around for a long time.
>
> https://www.olympus-global.com/technology/museum/endo/?page=technology_museum
>
> Glass tubes were also used to illuminate tight spots. Developing the
> technology to create bundles of very thin fibers was the trick.
>
> A lot of ideas are like that. The concept of an airplane had to wait for
> relatively lightweight IC engines to happen.
> > There was a cool monorail sort of ride.
> Now for cool monorails -- in the early 1900's some people were working
> on a monorail with gyroscopic stabilization. The big problem was each
> car would need a gyroscope.
>
> The idea never took off in the US. Other countries have impressive
> systems including maglev designed. Most US monorails are basically
> tourist attractions like Seattle, the Disney parks, Jacksonville, and
> Las Vegas. Detroit's is much more expensive per passenger mile than buses.
>
> I don't think the people mover at the Detroit airport qualifies as a
> monorail. It's never been operating when I was there unfortunately.
> Invariably my connections are between the two furthest apart gates.

Monorails have a lot of problems. The need for a gyroscope is not one of them.

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
Injection-Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 23:25:12 +0000
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 by: whit3rd - Sun, 8 May 2022 23:25 UTC

On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:

> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.

Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine was small, too.

As a horizontal-elevator system, both tunnels/subways (The Boring Company) and
elevated rail seem suitable for transportation in cities. Automobiles and
ever-wider highways with long commutes are NOT likely to dominate the future.
In a city core already full of streets, an elevated rail, monorail or standard gage,
doesn't take a lot of demolition footprint to install.

Re: TI new products

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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
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Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 22:26:35 -0400
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Mon, 9 May 2022 02:26 UTC

whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>
>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
>
> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine was small, too.

No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
huge and therefore expensive.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
Injection-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 03:07:10 +0000
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 by: whit3rd - Mon, 9 May 2022 03:07 UTC

On Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >
> >> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
> >
> > Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine was small, too.

> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
> huge and therefore expensive.

Ouniculars f that line of reasoning, we'd see f

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
Injection-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 03:15:05 +0000
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 by: whit3rd - Mon, 9 May 2022 03:15 UTC

rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >
> >> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
> >
> > Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine was small, too.

> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
> huge and therefore expensive.

Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban transit.

The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower (there's HUGE
lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able
than standard twin-track.

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
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 by: Clifford Heath - Mon, 9 May 2022 03:25 UTC

On 9/5/22 12:26 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>
>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
>>
>> Why?   Because the ones you've seen are small?   Hero's steam turbine
>> was small, too.
>
> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
> huge and therefore expensive.

Only if the train rides on the track, instead of under it.

Re: TI new products

<5eea78c4-bb3e-9a90-d460-e08fa1c85eb4@electrooptical.net>

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Subject: Re: TI new products
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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:10 UTC

whit3rd wrote:
> rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything
>>>> real.
>>>
>>> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine
>>> was small, too.
>
>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to
>> be huge and therefore expensive.
>
> Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
> transit.

Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?
>
> The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
> (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
> dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
> twin-track.

Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
fail, and/or easier to repair?

Don't think so.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: TI new products

<1cf9e0fb-a5ce-c81d-9a46-4863b776f929@electrooptical.net>

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Subject: Re: TI new products
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From: pcdhSpam...@electrooptical.net (Phil Hobbs)
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 by: Phil Hobbs - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:11 UTC

Clifford Heath wrote:
> On 9/5/22 12:26 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
>>>
>>> Why?   Because the ones you've seen are small?   Hero's steam turbine
>>> was small, too.
>>
>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
>> huge and therefore expensive.
>
> Only if the train rides on the track, instead of under it.

Sure, and running it upside down like a chairlift will be so much
cheaper than train tracks.

Fanboi alert.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Re: TI new products

<ehdi7hl1j3v5n7ru21r36shor3o0v3qs6t@4ax.com>

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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Mon, 9 May 2022 15:43 UTC

On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>whit3rd wrote:
>> rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything
>>>>> real.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine
>>>> was small, too.
>>
>>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to
>>> be huge and therefore expensive.
>>
>> Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
>> transit.
>
>Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
>tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?
>>
>> The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
>> (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
>> dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
>> twin-track.
>
>Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
>same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
>fail, and/or easier to repair?
>
>Don't think so.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs

I think our underground systems, MUNI and BART, should tear up their
tracks and pave the tubes and run electric busses in them.

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: whit...@gmail.com (whit3rd)
Injection-Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 17:37:21 +0000
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 by: whit3rd - Mon, 9 May 2022 17:37 UTC

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 8:10:38 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:

> > Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
> > transit.

> Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
> tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?

This is about INTRAURBAN transit; real estate for more roads (or surface rail) is
completely unavailable, but the inner cities need traffic to flow.

So, tracked vehicles are added either in tunnels, or overhead.
Neither of those solutions works well for individual passenger cars.
> >
> > The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
> > (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
> > dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
> > twin-track.

> Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
> same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
> fail, and/or easier to repair?

Huh? To the best of my knowledge, the monorail here in Seattle has had some
cars in need of maintenance, but the track has been in continuous use since
half a century ago. For mechanical stability, classic two-track rail allows derailment,
but a monorail on a dovetail track cannot lift off (though it can still be removed in a
maintenance bay). The suspension of a train depends critically on track spacing, the
suspension of a monorail has lots of allowed variation (wide tires) and lower
contact forces (rubber on concrete, not steel-on-steel). Track maintenance for
concrete... well, the Pantheon is made of concrete.

Re: TI new products

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Subject: Re: TI new products
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From: no.s...@please.net (Clifford Heath)
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 08:41:36 +1000
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 by: Clifford Heath - Mon, 9 May 2022 22:41 UTC

On 10/5/22 1:11 am, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> Clifford Heath wrote:
>> On 9/5/22 12:26 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything real.
>>>>
>>>> Why?   Because the ones you've seen are small?   Hero's steam
>>>> turbine was small, too.
>>>
>>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to be
>>> huge and therefore expensive.
>>
>> Only if the train rides on the track, instead of under it.
>
> Sure, and running it upside down like a chairlift will be so much
> cheaper than train tracks.
>
> Fanboi alert.

Not at all a fan of monorails, they have all kinds of problems. Just
pointing out that your statement assumed the train rides on top of a
rail. Not that much extra strength is needed to support a rail it can
hang from, and if you use one pillar each side, you can still run a road
underneath

Re: TI new products

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 20:39:18 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Tue, 10 May 2022 02:39 UTC

On 05/09/2022 09:43 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything
>>>>>> real.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine
>>>>> was small, too.
>>>
>>>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to
>>>> be huge and therefore expensive.
>>>
>>> Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
>>> transit.
>>
>> Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
>> tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?
>>>
>>> The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
>>> (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
>>> dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
>>> twin-track.
>>
>> Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
>> same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
>> fail, and/or easier to repair?
>>
>> Don't think so.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
> I think our underground systems, MUNI and BART, should tear up their
> tracks and pave the tubes and run electric busses in them.
>
>
>

I only rode BART once back in the '80s but it seemed rather nice
compared to NYC or Boston. Boston's Green Line is the oldest subway in
the US and it looks it.

The local bus company is phasing in electric buses.

https://mountainline.com/introduces-new-electric-buses

One of these days I'll have to go for a ride. They're zero fare so it
will be a cheap date. I've got to admit I'd rather be behind one of them
on a motorcycle than the aging diesel models. For me, the problem is
getting into town. If I arrive by car, motorcycle, or bicycle there's
little incentive to switch to a bus.

Re: TI new products

<377da785-b5e5-4a8b-aab3-4a37bfdc1420n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: TI new products
From: gnuarm.d...@gmail.com (Ricky)
Injection-Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 04:44:59 +0000
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 by: Ricky - Tue, 10 May 2022 04:44 UTC

On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 11:43:36 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
> >whit3rd wrote:
> >> rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>> whit3rd wrote:
> >>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything
> >>>>> real.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine
> >>>> was small, too.
> >>
> >>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to
> >>> be huge and therefore expensive.
> >>
> >> Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
> >> transit.
> >
> >Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
> >tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?
> >>
> >> The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
> >> (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
> >> dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
> >> twin-track.
> >
> >Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
> >same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
> >fail, and/or easier to repair?
> >
> >Don't think so.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Phil Hobbs
> I think our underground systems, MUNI and BART, should tear up their
> tracks and pave the tubes and run electric busses in them.

Isn't that Elon Musk's idea? The Boring Company.

--

Rick C.

--+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: TI new products

<jduafnFlbqdU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=96640&group=sci.electronics.design#96640

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From: bow...@montana.com (rbowman)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: TI new products
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 23:11:17 -0600
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 by: rbowman - Tue, 10 May 2022 05:11 UTC

On 05/09/2022 10:44 PM, Ricky wrote:
> On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 11:43:36 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 May 2022 11:10:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>> <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>> rOn Sunday, May 8, 2022 at 7:26:44 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>> whit3rd wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:17:45 AM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no idea why anybody would use a monorail for anything
>>>>>>> real.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? Because the ones you've seen are small? Hero's steam turbine
>>>>>> was small, too.
>>>>
>>>>> No, because in order to get static stability your one track has to
>>>>> be huge and therefore expensive.
>>>>
>>>> Following that reasoning, we'd expect funiculars for intraurban
>>>> transit.
>>>
>>> Do tell. Cable suspension and all those towers are cheaper than train
>>> tracks? And funiculars are as fast as trains?
>>>>
>>>> The rigid elevated systems use less airspace than a guyed tower
>>>> (there's HUGE lateral cable-tension loads in a funicular). A
>>>> dovetail monorail is practical and less derail-able than standard
>>>> twin-track.
>>>
>>> Most derailments are caused by maintenance failures, IIRC. With the
>>> same standard of maintenance, your dovetail gizmos are less likely to
>>> fail, and/or easier to repair?
>>>
>>> Don't think so.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>> I think our underground systems, MUNI and BART, should tear up their
>> tracks and pave the tubes and run electric busses in them.
>
> Isn't that Elon Musk's idea? The Boring Company.
>

Teslas in Tunnels.

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