https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission

Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop and it would slide a little to a new ratio.

On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
>
> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop and it would slide a little to a new ratio.

Those are interesting and useful especially for true offroad
such as hunters where quick shifts and no sticky-outie gear
changers are a plus. They do give up internal losses.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
>>
>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this is like the
>> middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip shifter, and when
>> a pedal was at the tension would drop and it would slide a little to a
>> new ratio.
>
> Those are interesting and useful especially for true offroad such as
> hunters where quick shifts and no sticky-outie gear changers are a
> plus.  They do give up internal losses.
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG

Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/

Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears (Drivetrain loss of
11w @ 200w)
Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears (Drivetrain loss of
19w @ 200w).
Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11 gears
(Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears (Drivetrain
loss of 20w @ 200w).
Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear range
(Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."

Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours asked me to
work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that her husband had
acquired. That model had two control cables, one going to the hub's
right side as usual, the other going to the left.

I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the feel of the
extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs were so lossy that low gear
took as much effort as the next lowest gear. I can't say for sure if
that's true, but I lost my desire to ever acquire such a hub.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
>>>
>>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
>>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
>>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
>>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
>>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
>>
>> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
>> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
>> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus.  They do give up
>> internal losses.
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
>
> Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
>
> Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
>
> Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> to the left.
>
> I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
>

Could be but I don't know about that.

SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
bath etc?

*think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> >>>
> >>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
> >>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> >>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
> >>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
> >>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> >>
> >> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
> >> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
> >> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
> >> internal losses.
> >>
> >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> >
> > Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> > https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
> >
> > Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> > Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> > (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> > Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> > (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> > gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> > (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> > Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> > range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
> >
> > Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> > asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> > her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> > one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> > to the left.
> >
> > I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> > feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> > were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> > lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> > my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
> >
> Could be but I don't know about that.
>
> SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
> with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
> mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
> could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
> bath etc?
>
> *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 5:34:34 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> >
> > Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> > For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> Those are interesting and useful especially for true offroad
> such as hunters where quick shifts and no sticky-outie gear
> changers are a plus. They do give up internal losses.
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>
That looks like a happy workplace. -- AJ

On 12/11/2023 7:45 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
>>>>>
>>>>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
>>>>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
>>>>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
>>>>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
>>>>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
>>>>
>>>> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
>>>> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
>>>> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
>>>> internal losses.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
>>>
>>> Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
>>> https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
>>>
>>> Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
>>> Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
>>> (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
>>> Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
>>> (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
>>> Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
>>> gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
>>> Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
>>> (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
>>> Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
>>> range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
>>>
>>> Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
>>> asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
>>> her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
>>> one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
>>> to the left.
>>>
>>> I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
>>> feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
>>> were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
>>> lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
>>> my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
>>>
>> Could be but I don't know about that.
>>
>> SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
>> with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
>> mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
>> could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
>> bath etc?
>>
>> *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.

> If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?

Raleigh (SA) and also Hercules, Phillips, Armstrong and
others (with SA and BSA gearboxes) exported large numbers of
classic Sports style bicycles:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/53sports.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/champ.html

in the late forties into the 1960s. The British government,
strapped for postwar revenues between war debt and the new
NHS, even slapped an export tax on bicycles in 1958 (a
debacle discussed here previously).

The BSA gearbox is essentially the same design as an AW and
almost interchangeable with SA small parts.

BTW the Steyr Daimler version gearbox from Austria is a high
quality SA AW copy but known in USA mostly from 'department
store' house brand machines:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nrc21.jpg

Raleigh Industries acquired Phillips and other smaller
brands in the middle 1960s.

--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:45:45 PM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> > >>>
> > >>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
> > >>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> > >>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
> > >>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
> > >>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> > >>
> > >> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
> > >> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
> > >> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
> > >> internal losses.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> > >
> > > Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> > > https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
> > >
> > > Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> > > Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> > > (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> > > Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> > > (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> > > gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> > > (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> > > Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> > > range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
> > >
> > > Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> > > asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> > > her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> > > one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> > > to the left.
> > >
> > > I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> > > feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> > > were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> > > lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> > > my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
> > >
> > Could be but I don't know about that.
> >
> > SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
> > with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
> > mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
> > could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
> > bath etc?
> >
> > *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?
>
> If I may hijack the thread for a second
>
You're welcome, William. And I congratulate your mama on your manners. -- AJ
>

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 7:18:14 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:45:45 PM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > >> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
> > > >>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> > > >>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
> > > >>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
> > > >>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> > > >>
> > > >> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
> > > >> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
> > > >> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
> > > >> internal losses.
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> > > >
> > > > Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> > > > https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
> > > >
> > > > Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> > > > Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> > > > (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> > > > Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> > > > (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> > > > gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> > > > (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> > > > Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> > > > range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
> > > >
> > > > Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> > > > asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> > > > her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> > > > one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> > > > to the left.
> > > >
> > > > I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> > > > feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> > > > were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> > > > lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> > > > my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
> > > >
> > > Could be but I don't know about that.
> > >
> > > SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
> > > with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
> > > mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
> > > could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
> > > bath etc?
> > >
> > > *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
> > > --
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?
> >
> > If I may hijack the thread for a second
> >
> You're welcome, William. And I congratulate your mama on your manners. -- AJ
> >
Hi, Andre! I am trying to screw up the courage to go for a ride today. It is going to be clear and about 55 degrees F. That is cold for me. I'll have to wear at least a couple of layers of clothing, maybe 3, to keep warm.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 7:34:19 AM UTC-8, William Crowell wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 7:18:14 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:45:45 PM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
> > > > >>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> > > > >>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
> > > > >>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
> > > > >>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
> > > > >> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
> > > > >> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
> > > > >> internal losses.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> > > > > https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
> > > > >
> > > > > Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> > > > > Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> > > > > Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > > Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> > > > > gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > > Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> > > > > Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> > > > > range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
> > > > >
> > > > > Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> > > > > asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> > > > > her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> > > > > one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> > > > > to the left.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> > > > > feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> > > > > were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> > > > > lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> > > > > my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
> > > > >
> > > > Could be but I don't know about that.
> > > >
> > > > SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
> > > > with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
> > > > mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
> > > > could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
> > > > bath etc?
> > > >
> > > > *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?
> > >
> > > If I may hijack the thread for a second
> > >
> > You're welcome, William. And I congratulate your mama on your manners. -- AJ
> > >
> Hi, Andre! I am trying to screw up the courage to go for a ride today. It is going to be clear and about 55 degrees F. That is cold for me. I'll have to wear at least a couple of layers of clothing, maybe 3, to keep warm.
I dressed for the cold but my latest jacket is still waterproof to some extent and everything was soaked by the time I got home. And my wife was on a negative binge which didn't help. I've been going so slowly and so painfully I'm wondering if I don't have some bug or other.

On 12/11/2023 9:35 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> BTW the Steyr Daimler version gearbox from Austria is a high quality SA
> AW copy but known in USA mostly from 'department store' house brand
> machines:
>
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nrc21.jpg

.... speaking of chain lube - or lack thereof!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/11/2023 10:31 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/11/2023 9:35 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> BTW the Steyr Daimler version gearbox from Austria is a
>> high quality SA AW copy but known in USA mostly from
>> 'department store' house brand machines:
>>
>> http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nrc21.jpg
>
> ... speaking of chain lube - or lack thereof!
>

$15 on craigslist. Maybe overpriced at that.

I needed a British style ladies' frame; kept the gearbox,
made a new fork and threw out everything else.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/nrc21k.jpg
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 4:50:02 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>
> I needed a British style ladies' frame
>
Transitioning, Andrew? -- AJ
>

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:34:19 PM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 7:18:14 AM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 1:45:45 PM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> > > On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 10:56:02 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > On 12/10/2023 12:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > > > On 12/10/2023 12:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> On 12/10/2023 11:05 AM, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > > > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_continuously_variable_transmission
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Compared to the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub I used, this
> > > > >>> is like the middle gear, where there is no gearing losses.
> > > > >>> For shifting I would put a little twist on the grip
> > > > >>> shifter, and when a pedal was at the tension would drop
> > > > >>> and it would slide a little to a new ratio.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Those are interesting and useful especially for true
> > > > >> offroad such as hunters where quick shifts and no
> > > > >> sticky-outie gear changers are a plus. They do give up
> > > > >> internal losses.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVINCI.JPG
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed, NuVinci's efficiency isn't great. From
> > > > > https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/relative-efficiency-of-various-bike-transmission-systems.16080/
> > > > >
> > > > > Singlespeed: 97% efficient (Drivetrain loss of 6w @ 200w).
> > > > > Rohloff : 94.5% efficient on average across 14 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 11w @ 200w)
> > > > > Pinion: 90.5% efficient on average across 18 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > > Shimano Alfine 11: 90.5% efficient on average across 11
> > > > > gears (Drivetrain loss of 19w @ 200w).
> > > > > Shimano Nexus 8: 90% efficient on average across 8 gears
> > > > > (Drivetrain loss of 20w @ 200w).
> > > > > Nuvinci 360: 83.5% efficient on average across the gear
> > > > > range (Drivetrain loss of 33w @ 200w)."
> > > > >
> > > > > Vaguely related: Long ago, a recently widowed friend of ours
> > > > > asked me to work on a bike's Sturmey-Archer 5 speed hub that
> > > > > her husband had acquired. That model had two control cables,
> > > > > one going to the hub's right side as usual, the other going
> > > > > to the left.
> > > > >
> > > > > I did get the hub functioning, but I just didn't like the
> > > > > feel of the extra low gear. Later I read that those hubs
> > > > > were so lossy that low gear took as much effort as the next
> > > > > lowest gear. I can't say for sure if that's true, but I lost
> > > > > my desire to ever acquire such a hub.
> > > > >
> > > > Could be but I don't know about that.
> > > >
> > > > SA four and five gearboxes just have double-stepped pinions
> > > > with a sliding pair of sun gears* so essentially the same
> > > > mechanism but with either 30:14 or 24:21. How significant
> > > > could that be inside the otherwise same mechanism, same oil
> > > > bath etc?
> > > >
> > > > *think of it as a three speed with an over/under drive set.
> > > > --
> > > > Andrew Muzi
> > > > a...@yellowjersey.org
> > > > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> > > If I may hijack the thread for a second: weren't the first series of "English racer" 3-speed bikes that were imported to the U.S. after WWII equipped with a 3-speed planetary gearset similar to the Sturmey Archer, but manufactured by British Small Arms? And the bicycle manufacturers switched to the Sturmey Archer system later? I'm pretty sure my brother's Hopper, from about 1953, had a BSA gearset. What ever happened to the BSA system?
> > >
> > > If I may hijack the thread for a second
> > >
> > You're welcome, William. And I congratulate your mama on your manners. -- AJ
> > >
> Hi, Andre! I am trying to screw up the courage to go for a ride today. It is going to be clear and about 55 degrees F. That is cold for me. I'll have to wear at least a couple of layers of clothing, maybe 3, to keep warm.
>
I cycle in street clothes; I've developed my bikes accordingly. I like cotton in layers that can be progressively taken off. But it is a long time since I cycled in shirtsleeves -- which I did through most of the '90s. Bring back global warming! -- AJ
>

On 12/11/2023 5:12 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 4:50:02 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>> I needed a British style ladies' frame
>>
> Transitioning, Andrew? -- AJ
>>

Nope. One of my exes had to replace her beloved Raleigh.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:12:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 4:50:02 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > I needed a British style ladies' frame
> >
> Transitioning, Andrew? -- AJ
> >
Now that's funny! Besides, he's too old.

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 3:14:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/11/2023 5:12 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 4:50:02 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> I needed a British style ladies' frame
> >>
> > Transitioning, Andrew? -- AJ
> >>
> Nope. One of my exes had to replace her beloved Raleigh.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> a...@yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
I would say that's a likely story but it's too likely.