On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 21:31:37 -0500,
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/27/2023 4:22 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 16:00:13 -0500,
> > Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> On 2/27/2023 2:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Is it really necessary to ride up a hill to know its slope,
> >>> when a survey or topo map is probably MORE accurate? Try
> >>> measuring the slope of any hill to within a fraction of a
> >>> degree. Since the hill is not a constant slope, how and
> >>> where do you measure. While you're pondering the method, be
> >>> sure to include how the measurement can be performed driving
> >>> or riding up the hill.
> >>
> >> FWIW, I installed a simple inclinometer on the driver's
> >> door of our car. I first did that back when I (with others'
> >> help) was working on bike maps of our area. It's kind of
> >> fun to glance at it once in a while.
> >
> > I may have mentioned this here before, but at one point I had
> > a 100 cm level and I'd measure the grade (with an additional
> > ruler at one end at intervals while walking up the hill. Put
> > together (with some distance also measured as I walked) would
> > give a fair profile of the hill. Needless to say it was too
> > much trouble and I only measured out a few hills.
> >
> > I also tried mounting a bubble inclinometer on my top tube,
> > but it was impossible to read while riding. Today my Edge 830
> > reports out the grade as I ride, but it's wildly
> > inaccurate--largely due to hysteresis on the barometer, I
> > think.
>
> Family members tend to give me bicycling gifts for Christmas
> and birthdays. Because of that, I've got inclinometers on a
> couple bikes.
>
> Back in the day, Jobst used to say those can't work due to the
> surging as one pedals, but I find they work reasonably well. I
> probably don't "surge" as much as he did.

Okay, that made me laugh.

He was quite a character. Recently someone posted a link on
Facebook to an old article (by Tom Ritchey?) recounting some of
the old rides with Jobst. It was fascinating.

--
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 5:49:12 AM UTC-8, Ted Heise wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 21:31:37 -0500,
> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > On 2/27/2023 4:22 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
> > > On Mon, 27 Feb 2023 16:00:13 -0500,
> > > Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > >> On 2/27/2023 2:10 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Is it really necessary to ride up a hill to know its slope,
> > >>> when a survey or topo map is probably MORE accurate? Try
> > >>> measuring the slope of any hill to within a fraction of a
> > >>> degree. Since the hill is not a constant slope, how and
> > >>> where do you measure. While you're pondering the method, be
> > >>> sure to include how the measurement can be performed driving
> > >>> or riding up the hill.
> > >>
> > >> FWIW, I installed a simple inclinometer on the driver's
> > >> door of our car. I first did that back when I (with others'
> > >> help) was working on bike maps of our area. It's kind of
> > >> fun to glance at it once in a while.
> > >
> > > I may have mentioned this here before, but at one point I had
> > > a 100 cm level and I'd measure the grade (with an additional
> > > ruler at one end at intervals while walking up the hill. Put
> > > together (with some distance also measured as I walked) would
> > > give a fair profile of the hill. Needless to say it was too
> > > much trouble and I only measured out a few hills.
> > >
> > > I also tried mounting a bubble inclinometer on my top tube,
> > > but it was impossible to read while riding. Today my Edge 830
> > > reports out the grade as I ride, but it's wildly
> > > inaccurate--largely due to hysteresis on the barometer, I
> > > think.
> >
> > Family members tend to give me bicycling gifts for Christmas
> > and birthdays. Because of that, I've got inclinometers on a
> > couple bikes.
> >
> > Back in the day, Jobst used to say those can't work due to the
> > surging as one pedals, but I find they work reasonably well. I
> > probably don't "surge" as much as he did.
> Okay, that made me laugh.
>
> He was quite a character. Recently someone posted a link on
> Facebook to an old article (by Tom Ritchey?) recounting some of
> the old rides with Jobst. It was fascinating.

Jobst was a good rider and would invariably lead rides and was very careless with the safety of new riders. Because I said that on the .rides groups that he should be more careful with newbies he became angry and petulant. He published the address of my mother and claimed it was mine. But even worse, people who couldn't have ridden with Jobst on a bet drove by my mothers house and threw garbage and crap onto her porch and front yard. I wonder if they supposed that they could get in the good graces of King Brandt by doing that. Not likely since Jobst held a lot of contempt for those who couldn't keep up with him. My mother called the police and they took copies of my statements and Jobst's postings. Jobst became very quiet after that so I suppose the police contacted him and probably at H-P. Because of that I stopped riding with him and the group of very snobbish people.

I joined two other clubs and although they were a lot slower there was four people that used to go on fast rides. One of them might have died, two of the others moved into the central valley on retirement and the fourth contracted some sort of polio-like disease that totally paralyzed him. He recovered and tried to ride fast again and couldn't so I think he has given up riding. I may not have helped any by going on one of his fast rides with a bunch of fast guys from our local club. There was a woman along that had no business on a ride like that so I rode drag to keep an eye on her. The ride turned up a local 17% climb and she took off up that as hard as she could and she was young. I almost had to yell at her to slow down and pedal in a lower gear. But she was straining as hard as she could. Then the top 100 yards reduces to 13% and since it was easier she sped up I got her to slow down but she have already ruined herself and there was no way she could have completed the rest of the ride since there was a 20% section coming. It wasn't long but it was that steep and with almost a blind U-turn with possible traffic from both directions and SLOW DOWN DANGEROUS TURNS signs. But at the top I discovered that my friend said that he would babysit her back home since now she could hardly move and knew it. The rest of the group had ridden off so I tried to catch up with them. I just caught them at the 20% section and told them that I would lead them back. This pushed two of them out of shape since they believed themselves to be faster than me. So they took off. This was from the top of the road and I was a LOT faster than these guys downhill in those days and easily passed them up. I regrouped at the bottom and led them back but again dropped them. Now these guys were FASTER than me if they hadn't been play racing and wearing themselves out. So they didn't take the published course. I and another fast rider waited for them a long time but they had taken a shorter route, I finally surmised as much and rode to the start. I haven't seen my friend on another ride and I think that he now goes to the gym because he used to be an absolute rocket ship and can't take being just average now.

I forget the brand of bike Jobst was riding but he was only an inch or two taller than me and rode this god almighty 67cm bike. I was riding a 62 cm Peugeot PX-10. This is a que for Flunky and Liebermann and Krygowski to tell us everything about Jobst since obviously since I'm the only one here that actually rode with him they know more about it.

On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 11:40:24 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 8:28:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 6:25:37 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 3:02:03 PM UTC+1, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > > I bought this Pre-Trek Beauty in about 2000 when I decided to get back into racing after a short hiatus to build career and family.
> > > >
> > > > While the ride of this bike was a fantastic stable feel and response, it was a bit heavy, and as the years of CX racing in New England evolved to match the evolution of CX bikes, I switched to a Fort CX which was better suited to the course designs - more maneuverable and quicker response.
> > > >
> > > > So this hung in my basement for a while, until recently when the Missus asked about getting a gravel bike. "I have just the thing for you", I told her.
> > > >
> > > > The new build is SRAM Force/Apex, with red TRP canti's and Bontrager CX wheels (post Trek), Vittoria Rubino 30 gravel tires, and Wellgo pedals with toe straps because she prefers sneakers.
> > > >
> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ut2Ptrk6dhJf6WR2nKT6r0JvLA31ULrh/view?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ubOYOuOBWMGfnP3-uDKLNb-tSaUmaLq8/view?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uZvNS-pSrOZPzgyR3F2v4gPNev4pbzB7/view?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > > > I took it out for a mostly paved jaunt to shake it out. It rides as smooth, stable, comfortable, and responsive as I remember, and even took it for a bit of a school bus draft at ~35 mph.
> > > >
> > > > She'll be taking it on some rail trails this year.
> > > >
> > > > The first build was Campy Chorus (recently retired from a Merlin build) with an Ultegra single 38 crank, SRP cantis, and Rolf Vector Pro wheels.
> > > >
> > > > Racing the rig ~2009
> > > >
> > > > at Shedd Park in Lowell MA:
> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmsY98jsF5jmMGg2UIhWHRRcEbywe5HY/view?usp=sharing
> > > >
> > > > AppleCross in Hampton NH
> > > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uaCJzHNoPOtbQ1auaQrqy7RpGGy0ex1q/view?usp=sharing
> > > Have fun with it.
> > Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer? Or a guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or what way he rides but misrepresenting himself is bullshit and gets tiresome. Compare that to my normal ride: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=891068818704535&set=pcb.891069548704462 And the quill stem was dropped another 2"
> It is set up for his wife.
>
> Lou
Yes, but he infers that it is an older bike of his own. The other pictures also show him riding 50 or 52 cm bikes, He's not the person he pretends to be in his postings.

As for comments elsewhere - I knew Keith Bontrager and when he was closing shop after selling out to Trek, he gave me a sack full of cycling caps. I still have most of them here. So people needn't think that they're explaining anything to me about Brent or Keith. And that fork on that bike is a unicrown fork. While I don't remember Brent making any of those horrible things, perhaps he did. On a hard bump the wheel can deform on rebound and cut the tire. I have seen it happen several times.

It is fine that Flunky raced. I'm sure he never did any good but that is also what all but the top 3 of a field do, so that sort or racing is for the fun of it.