On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 9:33:43 PM UTC-6, Xeno wrote:
> On 18/1/2023 2:35 pm, mike wrote:

>
> Starters can draw 150 - 500 amps of 12 volt DC current. If the negative
> leads aren't making a good connection, the car bumpers might make the
> perfect substitute. In the days of metal bumpers, having them weld
> themselves together is probably not the best outcome. With plastic
> bumpers, not so much of an *electrical* issue but you'll be scuffing the
> paint on them.
> >
> > Then they said positive first.
> > Why?
> >

Although the thread is rather lengthy and has been virtually exhausted,
I am going to venture out an explanation here.

Prevents Sparking or Arcing if in the event wires did touch. More energy
passes from the negative (anode) to the positive (cathode) side, due to
the way electrons flow, which create a potential for arcing on the positive
side. So, you go to the "stronger" or more energetic side first, then you
apply either the chassis or earth ground. It also puts less strain on the
stator and rotor on the electric motor in your alternator.

Follow or look up this enclosed link below. It gives details on arcing here.

https://getjerry.com/questions/what-are-some-reasons-why-my-car-battery-sparks-when-connecting-the-charger

> If you need to constantly add water, I suggest you check your charge
> output. Your battery is being overcharged and is gassing the battery.
> Doesn't do a lot for the longevity of the battery either.
> >
> > And how do you know how much to add?
> > They say add water to the "splash plate" but what is that?
>
> As long as the electrolyte covers the top of the cell plates, all will
> be well.
> >
Accordingly, the batteries (depending upon their chemical composition
and make up) have to maintain the correct specific gravity. Most people
do not know about this, but it ties in when a chemical reaction is actually
created through the EMF of the battery during operation drawing from
each of those cells.

> > They say the six chambers produce 2.1 volts each for 12.6 volts?
> > Isn't it more than that?
>
> Nope. The electrical system of a car is *14 Volts*, not 12V as is
> commonly believed. You need that voltage to charge a 12 Volt battery at
> its nominal 12.6 Volts. After charging, the battery will show more than
> that but it is only a *surface charge* and will quickly dissipate back
> to 12.6. What people don't realise is that the battery is *only* for
> starting the engine. Whilst ever the engine is running, the car
> electrical system is running off the alternator - hence a 14 Volt
> system. NB, alternators typically output between 13.8 and 14.2 Volts.

Actually, I heard about 13.5 to 13.8 Volts is common for vehicles
and traditional automobiles with regular gasoline engines. Diesel
uses up to 14.2 volts because
more power is generated through the glow plugs (and with diesel,
the pre-firing). I am not a diesel expert, but that is what I have heard.

> Any less and the battery may not fully charge, any more and you will get
> gassing.
> >
> > They say adding water before charging will make it overflow.
> > Does it really change the water level that much from dead to charged?
>
> Ask yourself what heating water does to its volume and you'll have
> answered that question.
> >
> > And what happens if you tap water instead of distilled?

The reaction will be slightly different chemically, but not by much, if the
specific gravity remains intact. I try to get distilled because there is by
nature less sediment in the water which reduces wear on the internal
chambers or cells in the battery and less likelihood of calcification.

Good Luck. Hope this helps.

Charles Lucas

On 1/28/2023 9:19 AM, Charles Lucas wrote:
> On Friday, January 27, 2023 at 9:33:43 PM UTC-6, Xeno wrote:
>> On 18/1/2023 2:35 pm, mike wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Starters can draw 150 - 500 amps of 12 volt DC current. If the negative
>> leads aren't making a good connection, the car bumpers might make the
>> perfect substitute. In the days of metal bumpers, having them weld
>> themselves together is probably not the best outcome. With plastic
>> bumpers, not so much of an *electrical* issue but you'll be scuffing the
>> paint on them.
>>>
>>> Then they said positive first.
>>> Why?
>>>
>
> Although the thread is rather lengthy and has been virtually exhausted,
> I am going to venture out an explanation here.
>
> Prevents Sparking or Arcing if in the event wires did touch. More energy
> passes from the negative (anode) to the positive (cathode) side, due to
> the way electrons flow, which create a potential for arcing on the positive
> side. So, you go to the "stronger" or more energetic side first, then you
> apply either the chassis or earth ground. It also puts less strain on the
> stator and rotor on the electric motor in your alternator.
>
> Follow or look up this enclosed link below. It gives details on arcing here.
>
> https://getjerry.com/questions/what-are-some-reasons-why-my-car-battery-sparks-when-connecting-the-charger

Which says NOTHING to support your silly claim above.

Obviously, every time you connect anything to a car battery, there is a
positive and a negative side to that connection as you do.

Your silly reference claims there is a spark because you left something
on (which on modern cars is always true) but ignores that you are
connecting a charge battery with an uncharged one.

>
> Your silly reference claims there is a spark because you left something
> on (which on modern cars is always true) but ignores that you are
> connecting a charge battery with an uncharged one.

OK, so I missed that. Here's one that does address the dead battery you
would be connecting the vehicle to. My apologies for missing the dead
one that is not charged. Link is below:

https://blog.napacanada.com/en/how-to-safely-and-quickly-recharge-a-dead-car-battery/

There are similar articles to connecting batteries to capacitors (which is basically what a
battery essentially is), although we're dealing with DC circuits.

Good Luck.

Charles Lucas

On 1/30/2023 9:34 AM, Charles Lucas wrote:
>
>>
>> Your silly reference claims there is a spark because you left something
>> on (which on modern cars is always true) but ignores that you are
>> connecting a charge battery with an uncharged one.
>
> OK, so I missed that. Here's one that does address the dead battery you
> would be connecting the vehicle to. My apologies for missing the dead
> one that is not charged. Link is below:
>
> https://blog.napacanada.com/en/how-to-safely-and-quickly-recharge-a-dead-car-battery/
>
> There are similar articles to connecting batteries to capacitors (which is basically what a
> battery essentially is), although we're dealing with DC circuits.
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Charles Lucas
>

That article tells you to jump start a car, then

"If the battery reads below 12 volts, it’s considered “discharged.”
Driving around can’t revive a battery below 12 volts, and attempting to
do so might damage the alternator."

If that is true, what has worked for practically everyone that has ever
jumped a significantly discharged battery has risked damaging the
alternator of the car used to jump it. Ever hear of that happening
without reversing the cables?

And driving around has worked fine for millions of people with battery
drained before jumping after they left the lights on.

Parts dealers web pages are highly "sales biased", like the one I saw
that claimed that wiper blades should be replaced every 6 months.

This is the 94th post on the basics of separating fly-shit from pepper - oops, how to jump-start a vehicle. What we have learned:
a) this venue is proof-positive that common sense is rarer than an ethical politician or a moral evangelical preacher.
b) that this venue exists to give the most impractical, obscure, possibly dangerous advice to the mostly lazy, ignorant or otherwise challenged individuals who appear to look for and cherish such device rather than seeking it for themselves, or reaching out to organizations that actually might know.
c) that if there is an opinion - fact-based or not - there will be an equal-and-opposite opinion - fact-based or not.
d) that the posters in this venue as exemplified by the above should not be exposed to anything sharper than a rubber spoon, more powerful than a D-size battery (large enough to make swallowing it difficult), or requiring reading or understanding directions, written or otherwise.

https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/daily/life/cars-trucks/jumping-a-car-battery/

Now, how hard was that?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA