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tech / sci.electronics.design / unusual stackup

SubjectAuthor
* unusual stackupjlarkin
+* Re: unusual stackupJohn Miles, KE5FX
|+* Re: unusual stackupLasse Langwadt Christensen
||`- Re: unusual stackupJohn Miles, KE5FX
|`- Re: unusual stackupAnthony Stewart
+* Re:unusual stackupMartin Rid
|`- Re: unusual stackupJohn Larkin
+* Re: unusual stackupJoerg
|`* Re: unusual stackupLasse Langwadt Christensen
| `- Re: unusual stackupJoerg
`* Re: unusual stackupJohn Larkin
 `* Re: unusual stackupLasse Langwadt Christensen
  `* Re: unusual stackupJohn Larkin
   `- Re: unusual stackupLasse Langwadt Christensen

1
unusual stackup

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From: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com
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Subject: unusual stackup
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:17:48 -0700
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 by: jlar...@highlandsniptechnology.com - Sun, 12 Jun 2022 20:17 UTC

I want to do a 6-layer pcb like

L1 1 oz copper
4 mil fr4
L2 2 oz copper
4 mil fr4
L3 2 oz copper
50 mil fr4
L4 2 oz copper
4 mil fr4
L5 2 oz copper
4 mil fr4
L6 1 oz copper

Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?

--

Anybody can count to one.

- Robert Widlar

Re: unusual stackup

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: jmi...@gmail.com (John Miles, KE5FX)
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 by: John Miles, KE5FX - Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:05 UTC

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 1:17:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?

No problem doing up to 8 layers with WellPCB. They
support up to 12 or so, but 8 is the most I've done.

The stackup will be a little different. They use 0.5 oz Cu on the top and
bottom and 1-oz on the inside layers by default.

-- john, KE5FX

Re: unusual stackup

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: langw...@fonz.dk (Lasse Langwadt Christensen)
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 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:25 UTC

søndag den 12. juni 2022 kl. 23.05.13 UTC+2 skrev John Miles, KE5FX:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 1:17:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
> No problem doing up to 8 layers with WellPCB. They
> support up to 12 or so, but 8 is the most I've done.
>
> The stackup will be a little different. They use 0.5 oz Cu on the top and
> bottom and 1-oz on the inside layers by default.

sure about that? normally all layers start as 0.5oz and then the outer layers
end up at 1 oz during plating of the vias

Re: unusual stackup

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: tony.sun...@gmail.com (Anthony Stewart)
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 by: Anthony Stewart - Sun, 12 Jun 2022 21:29 UTC

On Sunday, 12 June 2022 at 17:05:13 UTC-4, John Miles, KE5FX wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 1:17:59 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
> No problem doing up to 8 layers with WellPCB. They
> support up to 12 or so, but 8 is the most I've done.

>
> The stackup will be a little different. They use 0.5 oz Cu on the top and
> bottom and 1-oz on the inside layers by default.
>
> -- john, KE5FX
Yes it sounds as expensive as an 10 layer 1oz layup. In volume the cost comes down to total copper weight. Thermally it doesn't have any advantage. Better make sure it Cu balanced.

Re: unusual stackup

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: jmi...@gmail.com (John Miles, KE5FX)
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 by: John Miles, KE5FX - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 00:24 UTC

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 2:25:58 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
> sure about that? normally all layers start as 0.5oz and then the outer layers
> end up at 1 oz during plating of the vias

That's correct, they plate to 1 oz externally, as I understand it. But their
stackup diagram specifies 0.5 oz as it's applied prior to additional plating.
Seems like the most common default practice among different Chinese
PCB houses.

-- john, KE5FX

Re:unusual stackup

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From: martin_r...@verison.net (Martin Rid)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re:unusual stackup
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 by: Martin Rid - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 17:51 UTC

jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com Wrote in message:r
> I want to do a 6-layer pcb likeL1 1 oz copper 4 mil fr4L2 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L3 2 oz copper 50 mil fr4L4 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L5 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L6 1 oz copperDoes that sound goofy? Or expensive?-- Anybody can count to one.- Robert Widlar

Should be fine , the only thing is maybe they would round to the
nearest proper thickness based on availble prepreg thickness's.
To some +-%. Which would meet your requirements.

Cheers
--

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

Re: unusual stackup

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From: new...@analogconsultants.com (Joerg)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: unusual stackup
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 by: Joerg - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 19:46 UTC

On 6/12/22 1:17 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
>
> L1 1 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
> L2 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
> L3 2 oz copper
> 50 mil fr4
> L4 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
> L5 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
> L6 1 oz copper
>
> Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
>

Doesn't sound goofy. I have done 4oz copper.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Re: unusual stackup

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: langw...@fonz.dk (Lasse Langwadt Christensen)
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 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 20:31 UTC

mandag den 13. juni 2022 kl. 21.46.24 UTC+2 skrev Joerg:
> On 6/12/22 1:17 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
> >
> > L1 1 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> > L2 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> > L3 2 oz copper
> > 50 mil fr4
> > L4 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> > L5 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> > L6 1 oz copper
> >
> > Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
> >
> Doesn't sound goofy. I have done 4oz copper.

sure, but the thick copper is usually on the outside layers done by plating together with the vias

Re: unusual stackup

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 by: Joerg - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 20:56 UTC

On 6/13/22 1:31 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> mandag den 13. juni 2022 kl. 21.46.24 UTC+2 skrev Joerg:
>> On 6/12/22 1:17 PM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
>>>
>>> L1 1 oz copper
>>> 4 mil fr4
>>> L2 2 oz copper
>>> 4 mil fr4
>>> L3 2 oz copper
>>> 50 mil fr4
>>> L4 2 oz copper
>>> 4 mil fr4
>>> L5 2 oz copper
>>> 4 mil fr4
>>> L6 1 oz copper
>>>
>>> Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
>>>
>> Doesn't sound goofy. I have done 4oz copper.
>
> sure, but the thick copper is usually on the outside layers done by plating together with the vias
>

Usually yes but sometimes it's needed inside for high current traces.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Re: unusual stackup

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: unusual stackup
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 14:22:53 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 21:22 UTC

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 13:51:35 -0400 (EDT), Martin Rid
<martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:

>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com Wrote in message:r
>> I want to do a 6-layer pcb likeL1 1 oz copper 4 mil fr4L2 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L3 2 oz copper 50 mil fr4L4 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L5 2 oz copper 4 mil fr4L6 1 oz copperDoes that sound goofy? Or expensive?-- Anybody can count to one.- Robert Widlar
>
>Should be fine , the only thing is maybe they would round to the
> nearest proper thickness based on availble prepreg thickness's.
> To some +-%. Which would meet your requirements.
>
>Cheers

Right, I'll need tolerances. I want fat copper and thin FR4 to get
good heat transfer between layers.

I'll have 16 DPAK fets on a board, with power dissipation about 10
watts per pair, 80 watts per board. I can via down to internal power
pours which will conduct heat into the power planes, to insulate the
fets but spread the heat laterally in the planes.

I can use these cute little heat sinks, but I want to thermally couple
each pair of fets so they can share their two heat sinks, when one fet
in a pair dumps most of the heat.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Aavid/7106DG?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuIeULrOsCjAywa1%252BzMrg4lhtuOKZksa%2Fc%3D

The goal is to have everything surface-mount, pick-and-place, no
machining or hardware or silicone grease or such.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: unusual stackup

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: unusual stackup
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 15:42:38 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:42 UTC

On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:17:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:

>I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
>
>L1 1 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
>L2 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
>L3 2 oz copper
> 50 mil fr4
>L4 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
>L5 2 oz copper
> 4 mil fr4
>L6 1 oz copper
>
>Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?

Cirexx says it's reasonable and standard material.

It's going to be heavy.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/21o5hf8cal7xz6k/plugin_module.jpg?raw=1

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: unusual stackup

<73f90355-7bbe-499f-8fe3-51c90223e5fdn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: unusual stackup
From: langw...@fonz.dk (Lasse Langwadt Christensen)
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 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 22:57 UTC

tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 00.42.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:17:48 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> wrote:
> >I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
> >
> >L1 1 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> >L2 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> >L3 2 oz copper
> > 50 mil fr4
> >L4 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> >L5 2 oz copper
> > 4 mil fr4
> >L6 1 oz copper
> >
> >Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
> Cirexx says it's reasonable and standard material.
>
> It's going to be heavy.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/21o5hf8cal7xz6k/plugin_module.jpg?raw=1

https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/5i9wxd/i_just_received_my_20_ounce_pcb_soldering_is/

Re: unusual stackup

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From: jlar...@highland_atwork_technology.com (John Larkin)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: unusual stackup
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2022 16:48:25 -0700
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 by: John Larkin - Mon, 13 Jun 2022 23:48 UTC

On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 15:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

>tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 00.42.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:17:48 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
>> wrote:
>> >I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
>> >
>> >L1 1 oz copper
>> > 4 mil fr4
>> >L2 2 oz copper
>> > 4 mil fr4
>> >L3 2 oz copper
>> > 50 mil fr4
>> >L4 2 oz copper
>> > 4 mil fr4
>> >L5 2 oz copper
>> > 4 mil fr4
>> >L6 1 oz copper
>> >
>> >Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
>> Cirexx says it's reasonable and standard material.
>>
>> It's going to be heavy.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/21o5hf8cal7xz6k/plugin_module.jpg?raw=1
>
>https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/5i9wxd/i_just_received_my_20_ounce_pcb_soldering_is/

That's crazy. Beautiful but crazy.

--

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
Francis Bacon

Re: unusual stackup

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 by: Lasse Langwadt Chris - Tue, 14 Jun 2022 00:06 UTC

tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 01.48.36 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> On Mon, 13 Jun 2022 15:57:25 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
> >tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 00.42.50 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> >> On Sun, 12 Jun 2022 13:17:48 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
> >> wrote:
> >> >I want to do a 6-layer pcb like
> >> >
> >> >L1 1 oz copper
> >> > 4 mil fr4
> >> >L2 2 oz copper
> >> > 4 mil fr4
> >> >L3 2 oz copper
> >> > 50 mil fr4
> >> >L4 2 oz copper
> >> > 4 mil fr4
> >> >L5 2 oz copper
> >> > 4 mil fr4
> >> >L6 1 oz copper
> >> >
> >> >Does that sound goofy? Or expensive?
> >> Cirexx says it's reasonable and standard material.
> >>
> >> It's going to be heavy.
> >>
> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/21o5hf8cal7xz6k/plugin_module.jpg?raw=1
> >
> >https://www.reddit.com/r/electronics/comments/5i9wxd/i_just_received_my_20_ounce_pcb_soldering_is/
> That's crazy. Beautiful but crazy.

from the comments: "the side that you're looking at has -450V / 0 / +450V traces. The other side has 14V @ 150A and 24V @ 80A."

https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ZjnBND2U/irccloudcapture-236812244.jpg

I think I read about it on hackaday, afair it the board was only $2250

1
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