ALL of them.

mandag den 21. juni 2021 kl. 05.07.00 UTC+2 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> ALL of them.

No, not all of them. The ones who don't have access to DHA through their diet still don't evolve large brains. Sirenians are the classic case, because they're all herbivores, and only an aquatic fauna diet contains DHA. You need to eat them fish, or in our case likely shellfish, to evolve that big brain we're so bleeding proud of.

"Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"

Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

Human ancestors were probably never fully aquatic, although our early-Pleistocene ancestors might often have slept floating on the water surface.

Hominoid, hominid & Homo evolution leaves no doubt:
0) early primates: arboreal
1) Mio-Pliocene hominoids & hominids: aquarboreal
2) early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: littoral
3) late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: predom.BP.wading
4) H.sapiens today: BP.walking

Google
"aquarboreal"
"coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo PPT"

On Monday, June 21, 2021 at 5:41:30 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> "Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"
>
> Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.
>
>
> Human ancestors were probably never fully aquatic, although our early-Pleistocene ancestors might often have slept floating on the water surface.

Unlike all primates, anthropoids, hominoids, humans. Mermaids!! Biology???? Pseudoscience!!!!

>
> Hominoid, hominid & Homo evolution leaves no doubt:
> 0) early primates: arboreal
> 1) Mio-Pliocene hominoids & hominids: aquarboreal
> 2) early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: littoral
> 3) late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: predom.BP.wading
> 4) H.sapiens today: BP.walking
>
> Google
> "aquarboreal"
> "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo PPT"

mandag den 21. juni 2021 kl. 05.07.00 UTC+2 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> ALL of them.

'Cause they don't descend from brachiating apes from long gone Eurasian jungles around the Tethys Sea and the Mediterranean.
The dexterous simian forelimbs that have adapted to grab food, carry young and generally interact with the surroundings originally evolved from grabbing branches in the canopies, and as a somewhat odd exaptation the interacting forelimbs turn all simian species vertically bipedal when wading through shallow water.
So it's an ape/monkey-adapting-to-wade-for-seafood that has turned us into a obligate biped.

Some idiot asked:

"Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"

Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

mandag den 21. juni 2021 kl. 21.36.34 UTC+2 skrev littor...@gmail.com:
> Some idiot asked:
> "Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"
>
> Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?
And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.

Op maandag 21 juni 2021 om 23:44:37 UTC+2 schreef C. H. Engelbrecht:

> > Some idiot asked: "Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"
> > Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> > probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

> That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?

Good question. Probably because Miocene hominoids were already vertical (Morotopithecus etc.): not for walking bipedally on land, but for climbing vertically + keeping the head above the water in the swamp/mangrove/flooded forests where they lived. Google "aquarboreal".

> And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.

Yes. The sequence was probably:
-Mio-Pliocene hominoids: aquarboreal = orthograde
-early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: shallow-diving,
-late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: orthograde wading->walking.

Gibbons & humans are still vertical.
Gorilla & Pan knuckle-walking evolved in parallel from orthograde ancestors..

Google
"ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 6:04:46 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op maandag 21 juni 2021 om 23:44:37 UTC+2 schreef C. H. Engelbrecht:
> > > Some idiot asked: "Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"
> > > Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> > > probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.
>
> > That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?
> Good question. Probably because Miocene hominoids were already vertical (Morotopithecus etc.): not for walking bipedally on land, but for climbing vertically + keeping the head above the water in the swamp/mangrove/flooded forests where they lived. Google "aquarboreal".
> > And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.
> Yes. The sequence was probably:
> -Mio-Pliocene hominoids: aquarboreal = orthograde
> -early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: shallow-diving,
> -late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: orthograde wading->walking.
>
> Gibbons & humans are still vertical.
> Gorilla & Pan knuckle-walking evolved in parallel from orthograde ancestors.
>
> Google
> "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"
There is no indication that gibbon ancestors spent more than a miniscule amount of time in water. Gibbon & human lack of laryngeal air sacs plausibly show a lack of upright flotation.

Op dinsdag 22 juni 2021 om 12:34:42 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> > > > probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

> > > That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?

> > Good question. Probably because Miocene hominoids were already vertical (Morotopithecus etc.): not for walking bipedally on land, but for climbing vertically + keeping the head above the water in the swamp/mangrove/flooded forests where they lived. Google "aquarboreal".

> > > And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.
> > Yes. The sequence was probably:
> > -Mio-Pliocene hominoids: aquarboreal = orthograde
> > -early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: shallow-diving,
> > -late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: orthograde wading->walking.
> > Gibbons & humans are still vertical.
> > Gorilla & Pan knuckle-walking evolved in parallel from orthograde ancestors.
> > Google
> > "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

> There is no indication that gibbon ancestors spent more than a miniscule amount of time in water.

There are several indications that gibbon ancestors were aquarboreal.
Inform, my little boy, before trying to say something.
Google "aquarboreal".

> Gibbon & human lack of laryngeal air sacs plausibly show a lack of upright flotation.

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 at 9:07:47 AM UTC-4, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op dinsdag 22 juni 2021 om 12:34:42 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
> > > > > Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> > > > > probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.
>
> > > > That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?
>
> > > Good question. Probably because Miocene hominoids were already vertical (Morotopithecus etc.): not for walking bipedally on land, but for climbing vertically + keeping the head above the water in the swamp/mangrove/flooded forests where they lived. Google "aquarboreal".
>
> > > > And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.
> > > Yes. The sequence was probably:
> > > -Mio-Pliocene hominoids: aquarboreal = orthograde
> > > -early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: shallow-diving,
> > > -late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: orthograde wading->walking.
> > > Gibbons & humans are still vertical.
> > > Gorilla & Pan knuckle-walking evolved in parallel from orthograde ancestors.
> > > Google
> > > "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"
>
> > There is no indication that gibbon ancestors spent more than a miniscule amount of time in water.
> There are several indications that gibbon ancestors were aquarboreal.

Claims are not evidence. Their subcutaneous fat & thick fur are arboreal adaptations of exposed sleeper.

> Inform, my little boy, before trying to say something.
> Google "aquarboreal".
> > Gibbon & human lack of laryngeal air sacs plausibly show a lack of upright flotation.

Op woensdag 23 juni 2021 om 23:57:16 UTC+2 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:

> > > > > > Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,
> > > > > > probably the same idiots who think their ancestors ran antelopes to exhaustion on the Afr.savannas.

> > > > > That's a good point, fully aquatic mammals are basically nonpedal.. But I sort of understand the gist of the man's question, however divisive: Why in the hell are we the only semiaquatic mammal with a vertical bipedal locomotion both in and out of the water?

> > > > Good question. Probably because Miocene hominoids were already vertical (Morotopithecus etc.): not for walking bipedally on land, but for climbing vertically + keeping the head above the water in the swamp/mangrove/flooded forests where they lived. Google "aquarboreal".

> > > > > And I've tried to relay the likely reason why above: Because we're a tropical ape that adapted to a semiaquatic life.

> > > > Yes. The sequence was probably:
> > > > -Mio-Pliocene hominoids: aquarboreal = orthograde
> > > > -early-Pleistocene archaic Homo: shallow-diving,
> > > > -late-Pleistocene H.sapiens: orthograde wading->walking.
> > > > Gibbons & humans are still vertical.
> > > > Gorilla & Pan knuckle-walking evolved in parallel from orthograde ancestors.
> > > > Google "ape human evolution made easy PPT verhaegen"

> > > There is no indication that gibbon ancestors spent more than a miniscule amount of time in water.

> > There are several indications that gibbon ancestors were aquarboreal.

> Claims are not evidence.

Inform, my little boy, before trying to say something.
Google "aquarboreal".

C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> mandag den 21. juni 2021 kl. 05.07.00 UTC+2 skrev Primum Sapienti:
>> ALL of them.
>
> No, not all of them. The ones who don't have access to DHA through their diet still don't evolve large brains. Sirenians are the classic case, because they're all herbivores, and only an aquatic fauna diet contains DHA. You need to eat them fish, or in our case likely shellfish, to evolve that big brain we're so bleeding proud of.
>

I mentioned quadrupedality, not DHA.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> "Why are aquatic mammals all quadrupeds?"
>
> Only complete idiots believe Cetacea & Sirenia are quadrupedal,

Vestigial.

ALL of them.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 22:56:13 -0600, Primum Sapienti
<invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>ALL of them.

They're all tetrapods, but not all quadrupeds.
Extant sirenians en cetaceans don't have hindlegs.
But in the Eocene they did:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11676587_The_earliest_known_fully_quadrupedal_sirenian

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11781254_Origin_of_Whales_from_Early_Artiodactyls_Hands_and_Feet_of_Eocene_Protocetidae_from_Pakistan

Notice the elongated foot in the protocetid.

Op zaterdag 23 oktober 2021 om 16:33:04 UTC+2 schreef Pandora:

> >ALL of them.

> They're all tetrapods, but not all quadrupeds.

Yes, the poor man doesn't even know the difference between quadruped & tetrapod (etymologically the same).

> Extant sirenians en cetaceans don't have hindlegs.
> But in the Eocene they did:
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11676587_The_earliest_known_fully_quadrupedal_sirenian
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11781254_Origin_of_Whales_from_Early_Artiodactyls_Hands_and_Feet_of_Eocene_Protocetidae_from_Pakistan
> Notice the elongated foot in the protocetid.

Yes, plantigrady is never seen in typical cursorial tetrapods.
Only complete imbeciles believe their ancestors ran after antelopes.

littor...@gmail.com wrote:
> Op zaterdag 23 oktober 2021 om 16:33:04 UTC+2 schreef Pandora:
>
>
>>> ALL of them.
>
>> They're all tetrapods, but not all quadrupeds.
>
> Yes, the poor man doesn't even know the difference between quadruped & tetrapod (etymologically the same).
>
>> Extant sirenians en cetaceans don't have hindlegs.
>> But in the Eocene they did:
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11676587_The_earliest_known_fully_quadrupedal_sirenian
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11781254_Origin_of_Whales_from_Early_Artiodactyls_Hands_and_Feet_of_Eocene_Protocetidae_from_Pakistan
>> Notice the elongated foot in the protocetid.
>
> Yes, plantigrady is never seen in typical cursorial tetrapods.
> Only complete imbeciles believe their ancestors ran after antelopes.
>

Found those snorkel noses yet?

mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> Found those snorkel noses yet?

Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.

C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
>> Found those snorkel noses yet?
>
> Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
>

Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?

mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 06.32.30 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> > mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> >> Found those snorkel noses yet?
> >
> > Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
> >
> Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?

Didn't work so far. You just want your daily dopamine fix.

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 2:02:24 AM UTC-4, C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 06.32.30 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> > C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> > > mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> > >> Found those snorkel noses yet?
> > >
> > > Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
> > >
> > Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?
> Didn't work so far. You just want your daily dopamine fix.
Quadrupedal aquatics, except penguins which don't wade but do endurance march.

On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:32:30 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> > mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> >> Found those snorkel noses yet?
> >
> > Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
> >
> Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?

When you wrote "aquatic," were you referring exclusively to fresh-water mammals,
as opposed to "marine = salt water animals"?

Otherwise, your question has been answered, and it now has a similar status to
"why are humans the only fully bipedal mammals"?

In case there are those who do not know: sifakas are fully bipedal primates,
and have forelimbs at least as short in proportion to their hindlimbs as those of us humans.

Peter Nyikos
Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
University of South Carolina
http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:23:24 PM UTC-4, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:32:30 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> > > mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> > >> Found those snorkel noses yet?
> > >
> > > Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
> > >
> > Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?
> When you wrote "aquatic," were you referring exclusively to fresh-water mammals,
> as opposed to "marine = salt water animals"?
>
> Otherwise, your question has been answered, and it now has a similar status to
> "why are humans the only fully bipedal mammals"?
>
> In case there are those who do not know: sifakas are fully bipedal primates,
> and have forelimbs at least as short in proportion to their hindlimbs as those of us humans.
>
>
> Peter Nyikos
> Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
> University of South Carolina
> http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos
Sifakas are not aquatic, they are upright bipedal arboreal leaping lemurs with long tails.

On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:45:39 PM UTC-4, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
> On Thursday, November 4, 2021 at 4:23:24 PM UTC-4, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 1:32:30 AM UTC-4, Primum Sapienti wrote:
> > > C. H. Engelbrecht wrote:
> > > > mandag den 1. november 2021 kl. 05.58.36 UTC+1 skrev Primum Sapienti:
> > > >> Found those snorkel noses yet?
> > > >
> > > > Why don't you go play in downtown Moscow with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight.
> > > >
> > > Why don't you take a stab at answering the question in the subject line?
> > When you wrote "aquatic," were you referring exclusively to fresh-water mammals,
> > as opposed to "marine = salt water animals"?
> >
> > Otherwise, your question has been answered, and it now has a similar status to
> > "why are humans the only fully bipedal mammals"?
> >
> > In case there are those who do not know: sifakas are fully bipedal primates,
> > and have forelimbs at least as short in proportion to their hindlimbs as those of us humans.
> >
> >
> > Peter Nyikos
> > Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
> > University of South Carolina
> > http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

> Sifakas are not aquatic, they are upright bipedal arboreal leaping lemurs with long tails.

I never suggested they were aquatic. I was making an analogy that brings us a tad closer to humans,
phylogeny-wise.

But they aren't exclusively leaping, as a remarkable picture on page 26 of
_Primates_, vol 1 of Illustrated Library of Nature, Time-Life Books, 1984 shows.

It is a photo of a sifaka vigorously striding along the ground like a human, swinging its
arms like a human might. The caption reads as follows, caps and all:

"IN MID-STRIDE a sifaka shows why it is bipedal on the ground: Its legs are long and its arms are short. It would be even more awkward for it to walk on all fours than it would be for a man."

Peter Nyikos