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tech / sci.math / Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

SubjectAuthor
* WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
| `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|+- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
|| |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| | +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|| | |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| | | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| | | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|| | |  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| | |   +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| | |   |`- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| | |   `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|| | |    `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| | |     `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
|| | |      `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|| | |       `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|| | |        +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| | |        +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|| | |        `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
|| | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
|| | `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|| `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
||   +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||   |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||   | +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
||   | |+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
||   | ||+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceTom Bola
||   | |||`- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
||   | ||+- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
||   | ||+- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
||   | ||`- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||   | |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||   | | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
||   | |  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||   | |   +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
||   | |   |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
||   | |   | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||   | |   | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||   | |   | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
||   | |   | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceFromTheRafters
||   | |   |  `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
||   | |   `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
||   | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
||   |  `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
||   `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceDavid Petry
| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
| +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
| `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|  +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|  |`- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|  `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencemitchr...@gmail.com
|`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
| `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|   `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|    `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |   |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |   | |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |   | |  `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | |   +* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |   | |   |+- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | |   |+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | |   ||`- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | |   |+* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | |   ||`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceChris M. Thomasson
|     |   | |   || `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | |   |`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceWM
|     |   | |   | `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   | |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceGus Gassmann
|     |   | |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|     |   | |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|     |   | |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|     |   | |   `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|     |   | `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existenceJim Burns
|     |   +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     |   `- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
|     +- Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencesergio
|     `* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencezelos...@gmail.com
`* Re: WM Challange, Dark property existencemitchr...@gmail.com

Pages:12345
Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<t5dqe5$1g17$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/tech/article-flat.php?id=99587&group=sci.math#99587

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Tue, 10 May 2022 08:47:47 -0500
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 by: sergio - Tue, 10 May 2022 13:47 UTC

On 5/10/2022 8:26 AM, WM wrote:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
>> måndag 9 maj 2022 kl. 14:58:49 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
>>> 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
>>> 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
>>> 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
>>> 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
>>> 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
>>> ...
>>> Every attempt to collect all fractions in the first column of this matrix will fail.
>> No one is "collecting" them in the first column.
>
> That is the way to index them because by definition the indices are the positions in the first column.

wrong. your "by definition" is your mistake.

as well as intentionally mutilating the matrix of rationals.

>

>
>> You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
>
> the fact that most cannot be indexed by tranferring them into the first column.

Liar.

>
> Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<889ef3dc-b193-4e02-bd40-99fa1b8d9ff0n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Wed, 11 May 2022 04:44 UTC

tisdag 10 maj 2022 kl. 15:26:20 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
> > måndag 9 maj 2022 kl. 14:58:49 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>
> > > 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
> > > 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
> > > 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
> > > 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
> > > 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
> > > ...
> > > Every attempt to collect all fractions in the first column of this matrix will fail.
> > No one is "collecting" them in the first column.
>
> That is the way to index them because by definition the indices are the positions in the first column.

There is no such definition, "indicing" just means you have a function f: N->Q+

> > >But all definable fractions of Cantor's sequence
> > > 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ...
> > > will be transferred into the first column. Nevertheless all matrix places remain occupied by fractions which are undefinable, because all definable fractions have gone. That means dark.
> > You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
> the fact that most cannot be indexed by tranferring them into the first column.

Which is nothing but fallacious so you again fail

>
> Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<99058442-8dec-45a0-9bd0-cba85248b2ddn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:31 UTC

zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 06:44:52 UTC+2:
> tisdag 10 maj 2022 kl. 15:26:20 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> > zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
> > > måndag 9 maj 2022 kl. 14:58:49 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> >
> > > > 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
> > > > 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
> > > > 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
> > > > 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
> > > > 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
> > > > ...
> > > > Every attempt to collect all fractions in the first column of this matrix will fail.
> > > No one is "collecting" them in the first column.
> >
> > That is the way to index them because by definition the indices are the positions in the first column.
> There is no such definition,

It is: 11, 21, 31, ...

> "indicing" just means you have a function f: N->Q+

11, 21, 31, ... --> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, ...

Voila, you are too stupid to understand this?

> > > >But all definable fractions of Cantor's sequence
> > > > 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ...
> > > > will be transferred into the first column. Nevertheless all matrix places remain occupied by fractions which are undefinable, because all definable fractions have gone. That means dark.
> > > You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
> > the fact that most cannot be indexed by tranferring them into the first column.
> Which is nothing but fallacious

You are too stupid to understand that exchanging will never reduce anything? Your fault.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<fd1930be-dcf5-4845-82f4-d6aa8f4f3abbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Wed, 11 May 2022 11:33 UTC

horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 15:42:55 UTC+2:
> On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:26:20 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
> [...]
> > > You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
> > the fact that
> the great perfosser desperately wishes them to exist, against reason, and without any shred of evidence.

XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
....

XXOO...
OOOO...
XOOO...
XOOO...
....

XXOO...
XOOO...
OOOO...
XOOO...
....

XXXO...
XOOO...
OOOO...
OOOO...
....

You are too stupid to understand this? Your fault.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<65576ac5-96cb-4239-853f-66354d8f1d37n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:34 UTC

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 08:33:15 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 15:42:55 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, 10 May 2022 at 10:26:20 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
> > [...]
> > > > You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
> > > the fact that
> > the great perfosser desperately wishes them to exist, against reason, and without any shred of evidence.
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
> XXOO...
> OOOO...
> XOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
>
> XXOO...
> XOOO...
> OOOO...
> XOOO...
> ...
>
> XXXO...
> XOOO...
> OOOO...
> OOOO...
> ...
>
> You are too stupid to understand this? Your fault.

What is entirely on you is to think that the stuff you wrote about is a proof of dark numbers. In fact, as I repeatedly demonstrated, it is exactly the opposite.

And now fuck off, you silly crank.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
Injection-Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 12:44:25 +0000
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 by: WM - Wed, 11 May 2022 12:44 UTC

horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 14:34:12 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 08:33:15 UTC-3, WM wrote:

> > XOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > ...
> > XXOO...
> > OOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > ...
> >
> > XXOO...
> > XOOO...
> > OOOO...
> > XOOO...
> > ...
> >
> > XXXO...
> > XOOO...
> > OOOO...
> > OOOO...
> > ...
> >
> > You are too stupid to understand this? Your fault.
> What is entirely on you is to think that the stuff you wrote about is a proof of dark numbers. In fact, as I repeatedly demonstrated,

You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Wed, 11 May 2022 13:53 UTC

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
[...]
> You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.

Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*. Now FUCK OFF, MORON.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<t5gfdi$1j81$3@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergio)
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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 08:58:09 -0500
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 by: sergio - Wed, 11 May 2022 13:58 UTC

On 5/11/2022 7:44 AM, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 14:34:12 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 08:33:15 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
>
>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> You are too stupid to understand this? Your fault.
>> What is entirely on you is to think that the stuff you wrote about is a proof of dark numbers. In fact, as I repeatedly demonstrated,
>
> You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
>
> Regards, WM

Wrong, all columns are infinite, all rows are too.

FAIL. you get an F, for Fake Math

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergio)
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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 08:59:24 -0500
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 by: sergio - Wed, 11 May 2022 13:59 UTC

On 5/11/2022 6:31 AM, WM wrote:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 06:44:52 UTC+2:
>> tisdag 10 maj 2022 kl. 15:26:20 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>>> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
>>>> måndag 9 maj 2022 kl. 14:58:49 UTC+2 skrev WM:
>>>
>>>>> 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
>>>>> 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
>>>>> 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
>>>>> 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
>>>>> 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Every attempt to collect all fractions in the first column of this matrix will fail.
>>>> No one is "collecting" them in the first column.
>>>
>>> That is the way to index them because by definition the indices are the positions in the first column.
>> There is no such definition,
>
> It is: 11, 21, 31, ...
>
>> "indicing" just means you have a function f: N->Q+
>
> 11, 21, 31, ... --> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, ...
>
> Voila, you are too stupid to understand this?
>
>>>>> But all definable fractions of Cantor's sequence
>>>>> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ...
>>>>> will be transferred into the first column. Nevertheless all matrix places remain occupied by fractions which are undefinable, because all definable fractions have gone. That means dark.
>>>> You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
>>> the fact that most cannot be indexed by tranferring them into the first column.
>> Which is nothing but fallacious
>
> You are too stupid to understand that exchanging will never reduce anything? Your fault.
>
> Regards, WM

insults will not correct your bad math.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Wed, 11 May 2022 17:51 UTC

horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> [...]
> > You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
> Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.

But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
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 by: sergio - Wed, 11 May 2022 18:08 UTC

On 5/11/2022 12:51 PM, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
>> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> [...]
>>> You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
>> Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
>
> But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.
>
> Regards, WM

your thoughts require a 'finish', an end, a finite time, a termination. However, that is not math.

You took a novice approach to enumerating the rationals, and failed.

That is why Cantor's enumeration is brilliant, he starts in the corner and goes diagonally back and forth.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:12 UTC

On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 14:51:09 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > [...]
> > > You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
> > Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.

I can only repeat what I said before: Do you really have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*. It seems that over the years you learned how to spell the word "limit", but sadly you still have no clue what it means in mathematics.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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From: james.g....@att.net (Jim Burns)
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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Wed, 11 May 2022 15:38:57 -0400
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 by: Jim Burns - Wed, 11 May 2022 19:38 UTC

On 5/11/2022 1:51 PM, WM wrote:

> But enumerating all fractions must be reached.

All fractions are described.
For top and for bottom,
each BEFORE ends and each AFTER begins.

We describe the index for each fraction.
One consequence of that description is that
each BEFORE ends and each AFTER begins.

And so, Bob is not conserved.

> As soon as infinitely many have been reached

*BZZZZZT*
Sorry, thanks for playing.

Things-that-can-be-reached are
reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally large numbers.

Infinity is not a reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally
large number. Infinity is a different kind of thing.

> at one position of the matrix,
> the counting is finished.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: mitchrae...@gmail.com (mitchr...@gmail.com)
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 by: mitchr...@gmail.com - Wed, 11 May 2022 23:55 UTC

Zero isn't a quantity. That is the proof of its dark.

Mitchell Raemsch

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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 by: sergio - Thu, 12 May 2022 01:37 UTC

On 5/11/2022 6:55 PM, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Zero isn't a quantity. That is the proof of its dark.
>
> Mitchell Raemsch

nope, you have to be able to see that you have nothing first.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Thu, 12 May 2022 04:52 UTC

onsdag 11 maj 2022 kl. 13:32:05 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 06:44:52 UTC+2:
> > tisdag 10 maj 2022 kl. 15:26:20 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> > > zelos...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 07:02:43 UTC+2:
> > > > måndag 9 maj 2022 kl. 14:58:49 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> > >
> > > > > 1/1, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, ...
> > > > > 2/1, 2/2, 2/3, 2/4, ...
> > > > > 3/1, 3/2, 3/3, 3/4, ...
> > > > > 4/1, 4/2, 4/3, 4/4, ...
> > > > > 5/1, 5/2, 5/3, 5/4, ...
> > > > > ...
> > > > > Every attempt to collect all fractions in the first column of this matrix will fail.
> > > > No one is "collecting" them in the first column.
> > >
> > > That is the way to index them because by definition the indices are the positions in the first column.
> > There is no such definition,
> It is: 11, 21, 31, ...

That is a function N to whatever set you have, no column in sight.

> > "indicing" just means you have a function f: N->Q+
> 11, 21, 31, ... --> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, ...
>
> Voila, you are too stupid to understand this?

Are you to stupid to understand that this is not your fucking column?

> > > > >But all definable fractions of Cantor's sequence
> > > > > 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, ...
> > > > > will be transferred into the first column. Nevertheless all matrix places remain occupied by fractions which are undefinable, because all definable fractions have gone. That means dark.
> > > > You have not defined "definable" or "dark", you just say "they exist" based on
> > > the fact that most cannot be indexed by tranferring them into the first column.
> > Which is nothing but fallacious
> You are too stupid to understand that exchanging will never reduce anything? Your fault.

Are you too stupid to understand that all this of yours is irrelevant and proves NOTHING of what you want?
Yes, yes you are

>
> Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: zelos.ma...@gmail.com (zelos...@gmail.com)
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 by: zelos...@gmail.com - Thu, 12 May 2022 04:52 UTC

onsdag 11 maj 2022 kl. 14:44:34 UTC+2 skrev WM:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 14:34:12 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 08:33:15 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>
>
> > > XOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > ...
> > > XXOO...
> > > OOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > ...
> > >
> > > XXOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > OOOO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > ...
> > >
> > > XXXO...
> > > XOOO...
> > > OOOO...
> > > OOOO...
> > > ...
> > >
> > > You are too stupid to understand this? Your fault.
> > What is entirely on you is to think that the stuff you wrote about is a proof of dark numbers. In fact, as I repeatedly demonstrated,
> You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
>
> Regards, WM
We can think consideraby better than you.

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Thu, 12 May 2022 13:05 UTC

horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 14:51:09 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
> > > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > > You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
> > > Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> > But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.
> The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.

Therefore it is irrelevant. "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen (was, wenn es auf eine Art möglich ist, immer auch noch auf viele andere Weisen geschehen kann), so möge für das Folgende die Ausdrucksweise gestattet sein, daß diese Mannigfaltigkeiten gleiche Mächtigkeit haben, oder auch, daß sie äquivalent sind." [Cantor, p. 119]

For infinite set completeness means infinitely many elements are treated.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Thu, 12 May 2022 13:05 UTC

Jim Burns schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:39:09 UTC+2:
> On 5/11/2022 1:51 PM, WM wrote:
>
> > But enumerating all fractions must be reached.
> All fractions are described.

No. All fractions
1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1, ...
described by indices k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
are collected in the first column.
But all other columns are filled too.
..
> > As soon as infinitely many have been reached

> Things-that-can-be-reached are
> reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally large numbers.

If two infinite sets "can be related completely, element by element, to each other [...], then for the following the expression may be permitted that these manifolds have the same cardinality or that they are equivalent." [Cantor, p. 119]
>
Of course it is nonsense, but it is the definition of what you are defending.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Thu, 12 May 2022 13:41 UTC

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:05:38 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
> > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 14:51:09 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
> > > > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > > [...]
> > > > > You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
> > > > Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> > > But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.
> > The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> Therefore it is irrelevant. "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen (was, wenn es auf eine Art möglich ist, immer auch noch auf viele andere Weisen geschehen kann), so möge für das Folgende die Ausdrucksweise gestattet sein, daß diese Mannigfaltigkeiten gleiche Mächtigkeit haben, oder auch, daß sie äquivalent sind." [Cantor, p. 119]
>
> For infinite set completeness means infinitely many elements are treated.

In other words, you are now stating that your matrix sequence was irrelevant. Good job! (This also gives me the opportunity to point out to you again that "element for element" does not mean "one after the other". Why, oh why, do you insist on constantly misreading Cantor?)

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: askaske...@gmail.com (WM)
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 by: WM - Thu, 12 May 2022 14:08 UTC

horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2022 um 15:42:01 UTC+2:
> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:05:38 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
> > > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 14:51:09 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > > horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
> > > > > On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > > > [...]
> > > > > > You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
> > > > > Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> > > > But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.
> > > The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
> > Therefore it is irrelevant. "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen (was, wenn es auf eine Art möglich ist, immer auch noch auf viele andere Weisen geschehen kann), so möge für das Folgende die Ausdrucksweise gestattet sein, daß diese Mannigfaltigkeiten gleiche Mächtigkeit haben, oder auch, daß sie äquivalent sind." [Cantor, p. 119]
> >
> > For infinite set completeness means infinitely many elements are treated.
> In other words, you are now stating that your matrix sequence was irrelevant.

No one matrix for one step of enumerating.

> Good job! (This also gives me the opportunity to point out to you again that "element for element" does not mean "one after the other".

"unter beidseitiger Wahrung der Rangfolge ihrer Elemente auf einander beziehen, abbilden lassen" [G. Cantor, letter to R. Lipschitz (19 Nov 1883)]

"So stellt uns beispielsweise eine veränderliche Größe x, die nacheinander die verschiedenen endlichen ganzen Zahlwerte 1, 2, 3, ..., ν, ... anzunehmen hat, ein potentiales Unendliches vor, während die durch ein Gesetz begrifflich durchaus bestimmte Menge (y) aller ganzen endlichen Zahlen y das einfachste Beispiel eines actual unendlichen Quantums darbietet." [1886, Mai. Cantor to S. Giulio Vivanti in Mantua]

Do you know this law? If you have n, then go to n+1. One after the other:

We have 1 = |E0|. Now combine another thing e1 with E0. The sum set be called E1, such that E1 = (E0, e1) = (e0, e1). The cardinal number |E1| of E1 is called "two" and is denoted by 2 = |E1|. By adding new elements we obtain the sequence of sets E2 = (E1, e2), E3 = (E2, e3), ... which in an unbounded sequence successively supply the other so-called finite cardinal numbers denoted by 3, 4, 5, ... . [G. Cantor: "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre 1", Math. Annalen 46 (1895) § 5]

Denn wir haben hier ein dem Rang nach niedrigstes Element, die kleinste Kardinalzahl 1 und eine auf jede endliche Kardinalzahl  dem Range, d. h. hier der Größe nach nächstfolgende endliche Kardinalzahl  + 1. So erhalten wir die Gesamtheit aller endlichen Kardinalzahlen in der sogenannten natürlichen endlosen Folge: 1, 2, 3, ..., , ..., in welcher Folge sie eine wohlgeordnete Menge vom Ordnungstypus  darstellt.

Regards, WM

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<t5j630$b9$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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 by: sergio - Thu, 12 May 2022 14:37 UTC

On 5/12/2022 9:08 AM, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2022 um 15:42:01 UTC+2:
>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:05:38 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
>>>> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 14:51:09 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 15:53:39 UTC+2:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, 11 May 2022 at 09:44:34 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> You repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot think. Your matrix with infinitely many oo is impossible because when the first position has reached an oo, then there is no continuation possible.
>>>>>> Do you have to announce your utter ignorance quite so blatantly?!? The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
>>>>> But enumerating all fractions must be reached. As soon as infinitely many have been reached at one position of the matrix, the counting is finished.
>>>> The limiting value oo is *NOT* "reached" --- it is a *LIMIT*.
>>> Therefore it is irrelevant. "Wenn zwei wohldefinierte Mannigfaltigkeiten M und N sich eindeutig und vollständig, Element für Element, einander zuordnen lassen (was, wenn es auf eine Art möglich ist, immer auch noch auf viele andere Weisen geschehen kann), so möge für das Folgende die Ausdrucksweise gestattet sein, daß diese Mannigfaltigkeiten gleiche Mächtigkeit haben, oder auch, daß sie äquivalent sind." [Cantor, p. 119]
>>>
>>> For infinite set completeness means infinitely many elements are treated.
>> In other words, you are now stating that your matrix sequence was irrelevant.
>
> No one matrix for one step of enumerating.
>
>> Good job! (This also gives me the opportunity to point out to you again that "element for element" does not mean "one after the other".
>
> "unter beidseitiger Wahrung der Rangfolge ihrer Elemente auf einander beziehen, abbilden lassen" [G. Cantor, letter to R. Lipschitz (19 Nov 1883)]
>
> "So stellt uns beispielsweise eine veränderliche Größe x, die nacheinander die verschiedenen endlichen ganzen Zahlwerte 1, 2, 3, ..., ν, ... anzunehmen hat, ein potentiales Unendliches vor, während die durch ein Gesetz begrifflich durchaus bestimmte Menge (y) aller ganzen endlichen Zahlen y das einfachste Beispiel eines actual unendlichen Quantums darbietet." [1886, Mai. Cantor to S. Giulio Vivanti in Mantua]
>
> Do you know this law? If you have n, then go to n+1. One after the other:
>
> We have 1 = |E0|. Now combine another thing e1 with E0. The sum set be called E1, such that E1 = (E0, e1) = (e0, e1). The cardinal number |E1| of E1 is called "two" and is denoted by 2 = |E1|. By adding new elements we obtain the sequence of sets E2 = (E1, e2), E3 = (E2, e3), ... which in an unbounded sequence successively supply the other so-called finite cardinal numbers denoted by 3, 4, 5, ... . [G. Cantor: "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre 1", Math. Annalen 46 (1895) § 5]
>
> Denn wir haben hier ein dem Rang nach niedrigstes Element, die kleinste Kardinalzahl 1 und eine auf jede endliche Kardinalzahl  dem Range, d. h. hier der Größe nach nächstfolgende endliche Kardinalzahl  + 1. So erhalten wir die Gesamtheit aller endlichen Kardinalzahlen in der sogenannten natürlichen endlosen Folge: 1, 2, 3, ..., , ..., in welcher Folge sie eine wohlgeordnete Menge vom Ordnungstypus  darstellt.
>
> Regards, WM

those quotes do not save your bad math, they underscore the fact that you do not fully understand them.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 09:39:34 -0500
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 by: sergio - Thu, 12 May 2022 14:39 UTC

On 5/12/2022 8:05 AM, WM wrote:
> Jim Burns schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:39:09 UTC+2:
>> On 5/11/2022 1:51 PM, WM wrote:
>>
>>> But enumerating all fractions must be reached.
>> All fractions are described.
>
> No. All fractions
> 1/1, 1/2, 2/1, 1/3, 2/2, 3/1, 1/4, 2/3, 3/2, 4/1, 1/5, 2/4, 3/3, 4/2, 5/1, 1/6, 2/5, 3/4, 4/3, 5/2, 6/1, ...
> described by indices k = (m + n - 1)(m + n - 2)/2 + m
> are collected in the first column.
> But all other columns are filled too.

nonsense.

> .
>>> As soon as infinitely many have been reached
>
>> Things-that-can-be-reached are
>> reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally large numbers.
>
> If two infinite sets "can be related completely, element by element, to each other [...], then for the following the expression may be permitted that these manifolds have the same cardinality or that they are equivalent." [Cantor, p. 119]
>>
> Of course it is nonsense, but it is the definition of what you are defending.

wrong, it is only one to one mapping.

>
> Regards, WM

keep trying to prove Cantor wrong, it is good use of your time.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

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Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
From: horand.g...@gmail.com (Gus Gassmann)
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 by: Gus Gassmann - Thu, 12 May 2022 15:41 UTC

On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:08:32 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2022 um 15:42:01 UTC+2:
> > On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:05:38 UTC-3, WM wrote:
> > > horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
[...]
> > Good job! (This also gives me the opportunity to point out to you again that "element for element" does not mean "one after the other".
> "unter beidseitiger Wahrung der Rangfolge ihrer Elemente auf einander beziehen, abbilden lassen" [G. Cantor, letter to R. Lipschitz (19 Nov 1883)]

That does not say or mean "one after the other".

> "So stellt uns beispielsweise eine veränderliche Größe x, die nacheinander die verschiedenen endlichen ganzen Zahlwerte 1, 2, 3, ..., ν, ... anzunehmen hat, ein potentiales Unendliches vor, während die durch ein Gesetz begrifflich durchaus bestimmte Menge (y) aller ganzen endlichen Zahlen y das einfachste Beispiel eines actual unendlichen Quantums darbietet." [1886, Mai. Cantor to S. Giulio Vivanti in Mantua]
>
> Do you know this law? If you have n, then go to n+1.

That emphatically is *NOT* stated here.

> We have 1 = |E0|. Now combine another thing e1 with E0. The sum set be called E1, such that E1 = (E0, e1) = (e0, e1). The cardinal number |E1| of E1 is called "two" and is denoted by 2 = |E1|. By adding new elements we obtain the sequence of sets E2 = (E1, e2), E3 = (E2, e3), ... which in an unbounded sequence successively supply the other so-called finite cardinal numbers denoted by 3, 4, 5, ... . [G. Cantor: "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre 1", Math. Annalen 46 (1895) § 5]
>
> Denn wir haben hier ein dem Rang nach niedrigstes Element, die kleinste Kardinalzahl 1 und eine auf jede endliche Kardinalzahl  dem Range, d. h. hier der Größe nach nächstfolgende endliche Kardinalzahl  + 1. So erhalten wir die Gesamtheit aller endlichen Kardinalzahlen in der sogenannten natürlichen endlosen Folge: 1, 2, 3, ..., , ..., in welcher Folge sie eine wohlgeordnete Menge vom Ordnungstypus  darstellt.

OK. This is the process of induction. Please give a proper citation.

You seem to be really, really efficient at dredging up citations and so frightfully ill-equipped to actually understand them.

Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence

<t5jata$fnk$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: inva...@invalid.com (sergio)
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: WM Challange, Dark property existence
Date: Thu, 12 May 2022 10:59:37 -0500
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 by: sergio - Thu, 12 May 2022 15:59 UTC

On 5/12/2022 10:41 AM, Gus Gassmann wrote:
> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:08:32 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2022 um 15:42:01 UTC+2:
>>> On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 10:05:38 UTC-3, WM wrote:
>>>> horand....@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 11. Mai 2022 um 21:12:10 UTC+2:
> [...]
>>> Good job! (This also gives me the opportunity to point out to you again that "element for element" does not mean "one after the other".
>> "unter beidseitiger Wahrung der Rangfolge ihrer Elemente auf einander beziehen, abbilden lassen" [G. Cantor, letter to R. Lipschitz (19 Nov 1883)]
>
> That does not say or mean "one after the other".
>
>> "So stellt uns beispielsweise eine veränderliche Größe x, die nacheinander die verschiedenen endlichen ganzen Zahlwerte 1, 2, 3, ..., ν, ... anzunehmen hat, ein potentiales Unendliches vor, während die durch ein Gesetz begrifflich durchaus bestimmte Menge (y) aller ganzen endlichen Zahlen y das einfachste Beispiel eines actual unendlichen Quantums darbietet." [1886, Mai. Cantor to S. Giulio Vivanti in Mantua]
>>
>> Do you know this law? If you have n, then go to n+1.
>
> That emphatically is *NOT* stated here.
>
>> We have 1 = |E0|. Now combine another thing e1 with E0. The sum set be called E1, such that E1 = (E0, e1) = (e0, e1). The cardinal number |E1| of E1 is called "two" and is denoted by 2 = |E1|. By adding new elements we obtain the sequence of sets E2 = (E1, e2), E3 = (E2, e3), ... which in an unbounded sequence successively supply the other so-called finite cardinal numbers denoted by 3, 4, 5, ... . [G. Cantor: "Beiträge zur Begründung der transfiniten Mengenlehre 1", Math. Annalen 46 (1895) § 5]
>>
>> Denn wir haben hier ein dem Rang nach niedrigstes Element, die kleinste Kardinalzahl 1 und eine auf jede endliche Kardinalzahl  dem Range, d. h. hier der Größe nach nächstfolgende endliche Kardinalzahl  + 1. So erhalten wir die Gesamtheit aller endlichen Kardinalzahlen in der sogenannten natürlichen endlosen Folge: 1, 2, 3, ..., , ..., in welcher Folge sie eine wohlgeordnete Menge vom Ordnungstypus  darstellt.
>
> OK. This is the process of induction. Please give a proper citation.
>
> You seem to be really, really efficient at dredging up citations and so frightfully ill-equipped to actually understand them.

WM doesnt have the background, nor the knowledge structure, to understand.

If he cannot follow or do a Proof, he is pre-algebra at best. Cantor subject matter is out of reach for him.

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