On 1/25/2024 7:23 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 12:44:15 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In case you are unaware of it a business has to order
>> stock and that fixes the minimum they can charge for
>> a product and remain in business.
>
> Nope. Fair Trade laws died in about 1975:
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade_law>
> "As the chain stores became more popular, and bargain prices more
> common, there was a widespread repeal of the laws in many
> jurisdictions. By 1975, the laws had been repealed completely"

That is true. But some manufacturers now use MAP "Minimum Advertised
Price" to prevent retailers from discounting, or at least advertising
those discounts. If a retailer does advertise lower prices then the
manufacturer can cut them off.

I recall, decades ago, when stereo stores would write a higher price on
your receipt than you actually paid in order to avoid getting caught
violating Fair Trade laws.

And of course businesses routinely sell some items at a loss, and remain
in business, these are called loss leaders.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 1/25/2024 7:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2024 12:37:56 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Plainly you don't have a car. Every gas station in California,
>> Nevada and Arizona where I've been had a ten cent plastic vs.
>> Cash differential. Why are you pretending otherwise?
>
> In your amazing mirror world, does this ten cent plastic vs cash
> differential have a higher price for using a credit card compared to
> using cash? If so, your differential is a really a price increase,
> not a discount.
>
> "Why do gas stations charge more when you use a credit card?"
> <https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/education/basics/why-do-gas-stations-charge-more-for-credit>
> "Gas stations charge an average of 5 to 10 cents more per gallon for
> credit card purchases."

A lot of gas stations in California have eliminated the price
differential between cash and credit cards. They did this because they
are competing against the warehouse club gas stations (Costco and Sam's
Club) which almost always have the lowest gas prices by a significant
amount, and which don't take cash at all. For example, the two Rotten
Robbie stations near me have the same price for cash or credit,
currently $4.09. Ditto for the Chevron near me, $4.69. One Valero near
me is 4¢ more for credit.

The Costco closest to me is credit or debit card only. They are at $3.74
with a flat 4% cash back on Citibank Costco Visa for gas. You're
supposed to get that 4% at other gas stations too, but if the station is
part of a convenience store than you only get 1% with that credit card.

Visa charges 4¢ + 1.65% on service station credit card transactions,
even on rewards cards. So on purchase of 15 gallons of fuel, at $4 per
gallon, there would be $1.03 in credit card fees paid by the merchant,
or about 6.9¢ per gallon. They can't really raise prices to cover this
cost because if they did then they'd lose even more business to Costco
and Sam's Club.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On 1/25/2024 12:16 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

<snip>

> Can’t remember the last time I payed cash for anything.

It's pretty rare to have to pay cash in the U.S., but some small
restaurants and bars still don't take credit cards. But a higher number
now don't accept cash because of the high costs associated with cash.
The issue with the credit card fees is that the business sees the cost
explicitly. With cash, the costs are spread out into things like higher
labor costs, theft, counterfeit bills, insurance premiums, armored car
service, and bank fees. There's also the fact that people using credit
cards, on average, spend more money than cash customers.

A lot of gas stations no longer have different prices for cash or credit
because they don't want to lose business to credit-card-only gas
stations like Costco or Sam's Club which also almost always have the
lowest gasoline prices. A lot of gas stations still do have a higher
price for credit card use but the difference in price is less than the
cashback rewards on a typical credit card, especially when gas prices
are high.

Oddly, yesterday, I was in two different businesses that did not take
Apple Pay or Google Pay. They didn't even have a credit card chip
reader, only a magstripe reader─it's extremely rare to see this since
the credit card processor doesn't reimburse the merchant for stolen card
purchases if they don't have an EMV chip reader.

What annoys me about using a credit card is that now every coffee house,
bakery, etc., expects you to add a tip, even for take-out orders. Adding
$1 for a $3 coffee?! See <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJV_w0AGq8>.
Also the constant request for donations at supermarkets and drugstores
to charities that may be less than reputable.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 6:34:40 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
> On 1/25/2024 12:16 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Can’t remember the last time I payed cash for anything.
> It's pretty rare to have to pay cash in the U.S., but some small
> restaurants and bars still don't take credit cards. But a higher number
> now don't accept cash because of the high costs associated with cash.
> The issue with the credit card fees is that the business sees the cost
> explicitly. With cash, the costs are spread out into things like higher
> labor costs, theft, counterfeit bills, insurance premiums, armored car
> service, and bank fees. There's also the fact that people using credit
> cards, on average, spend more money than cash customers.
>
> A lot of gas stations no longer have different prices for cash or credit
> because they don't want to lose business to credit-card-only gas
> stations like Costco or Sam's Club which also almost always have the
> lowest gasoline prices. A lot of gas stations still do have a higher
> price for credit card use but the difference in price is less than the
> cashback rewards on a typical credit card, especially when gas prices
> are high.
>
> Oddly, yesterday, I was in two different businesses that did not take
> Apple Pay or Google Pay. They didn't even have a credit card chip
> reader, only a magstripe reader─it's extremely rare to see this since
> the credit card processor doesn't reimburse the merchant for stolen card
> purchases if they don't have an EMV chip reader.
>
> What annoys me about using a credit card is that now every coffee house,
> bakery, etc., expects you to add a tip, even for take-out orders. Adding
> $1 for a $3 coffee?! See <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJV_w0AGq8>.
> Also the constant request for donations at supermarkets and drugstores
> to charities that may be less than reputable.
> --
> “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
> really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
> indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
> they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

We don’t have that tip culture here. You can give a tip but it is not expected. In shops we just pay the price and the employer pays the employee.

Lou

On 1/25/2024 12:45 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> My grandsons live like that.  Almost no one in their age group can make
> change (mostly, no experience on either side of a till).

When I was 16 I had a job at McDonald's. When they discovered that I
could add in the sales tax and that I knew how to make change, I was
placed on a cash register instead of at the fryers or milk <sic> shake
mixer (back then they mixed syrup with plain "shake mix." We were told
to never use the phrase "milk shake" and to always call them "shakes.

On Sat, 27 Jan 2024 10:27:46 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.holtman@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 6:34:40?PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
>> On 1/25/2024 12:16 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> > Can’t remember the last time I payed cash for anything.
>> It's pretty rare to have to pay cash in the U.S., but some small
>> restaurants and bars still don't take credit cards. But a higher number
>> now don't accept cash because of the high costs associated with cash.
>> The issue with the credit card fees is that the business sees the cost
>> explicitly. With cash, the costs are spread out into things like higher
>> labor costs, theft, counterfeit bills, insurance premiums, armored car
>> service, and bank fees. There's also the fact that people using credit
>> cards, on average, spend more money than cash customers.
>>
>> A lot of gas stations no longer have different prices for cash or credit
>> because they don't want to lose business to credit-card-only gas
>> stations like Costco or Sam's Club which also almost always have the
>> lowest gasoline prices. A lot of gas stations still do have a higher
>> price for credit card use but the difference in price is less than the
>> cashback rewards on a typical credit card, especially when gas prices
>> are high.
>>
>> Oddly, yesterday, I was in two different businesses that did not take
>> Apple Pay or Google Pay. They didn't even have a credit card chip
>> reader, only a magstripe reader?it's extremely rare to see this since
>> the credit card processor doesn't reimburse the merchant for stolen card
>> purchases if they don't have an EMV chip reader.
>>
>> What annoys me about using a credit card is that now every coffee house,
>> bakery, etc., expects you to add a tip, even for take-out orders. Adding
>> $1 for a $3 coffee?! See <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJV_w0AGq8>.
>> Also the constant request for donations at supermarkets and drugstores
>> to charities that may be less than reputable.
>> --
>> “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
>> really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
>> indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
>> they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
>
>We don’t have that tip culture here. You can give a tip but it is not expected. In shops we just pay the price and the employer pays the employee.
>
>Lou

I've been to restaurants where the tip is automatically added on. They
won't get my business again. It's usually because they underpay their
help, and use the "tip" to make up for it. I generally tip pretty
good, but I decide how much for myself.

On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 10:27:48 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
> On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 6:34:40 PM UTC+1, sms wrote:
> > On 1/25/2024 12:16 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > > Can’t remember the last time I payed cash for anything.
> > It's pretty rare to have to pay cash in the U.S., but some small
> > restaurants and bars still don't take credit cards. But a higher number
> > now don't accept cash because of the high costs associated with cash.
> > The issue with the credit card fees is that the business sees the cost
> > explicitly. With cash, the costs are spread out into things like higher
> > labor costs, theft, counterfeit bills, insurance premiums, armored car
> > service, and bank fees. There's also the fact that people using credit
> > cards, on average, spend more money than cash customers.
> >
> > A lot of gas stations no longer have different prices for cash or credit
> > because they don't want to lose business to credit-card-only gas
> > stations like Costco or Sam's Club which also almost always have the
> > lowest gasoline prices. A lot of gas stations still do have a higher
> > price for credit card use but the difference in price is less than the
> > cashback rewards on a typical credit card, especially when gas prices
> > are high.
> >
> > Oddly, yesterday, I was in two different businesses that did not take
> > Apple Pay or Google Pay. They didn't even have a credit card chip
> > reader, only a magstripe reader─it's extremely rare to see this since
> > the credit card processor doesn't reimburse the merchant for stolen card
> > purchases if they don't have an EMV chip reader.
> >
> > What annoys me about using a credit card is that now every coffee house,
> > bakery, etc., expects you to add a tip, even for take-out orders. Adding
> > $1 for a $3 coffee?! See <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vJV_w0AGq8>.
> > Also the constant request for donations at supermarkets and drugstores
> > to charities that may be less than reputable.
> > --
> > “If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
> > really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
> > indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
> > they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards
> We don’t have that tip culture here. You can give a tip but it is not expected. In shops we just pay the price and the employer pays the employee.
>
> Lou

In a world where Biden and Yellen didn't make the supposed minimum wage useless, the 5% tip would be normal. Instead, they expect a 20% tip and actually I don't think that they are being paid minimum wages.

Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 1/19/2024 6:13 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 09:53:44 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/19/2024 8:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/19/2024 9:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/2024 8:47 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/2024 7:31 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If a single shooting is done with an Assault type rifle
>>>>>>> the goes up,
>>>>>>> "BAN the deadly AR!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But when an official law enforcement agency announces
>>>>>>> that 7,937
>>>>>>> homicides were committed with "hand guns", i.e.,
>>>>>>> "pistols", not a
>>>>>>> sound is heard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John, it's worrisome that you've forgotten, but:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You have complained many times about handgun deaths. I've
>>>>>> said many, many times that if you prefer to begin calling
>>>>>> for serious restrictions on handguns, do so!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We might return to prosecuting felon in possession, armed
>>>>> assault/robbery etc. There's no shortage of statutes,
>>>>> merely a lack of will.
>>>>
>>>> There's also the expense. Care to raise more taxes to fund
>>>> more jail capacity? "No new taxes!!!!" And there's the
>>>> realization (at least, among some) that in many cases there
>>>> are better ways to set people right.
>>>>
>>>> As we've noted here repeatedly, the U.S. is a world leader
>>>> in citizen incarceration. Most other countries jail a far
>>>> smaller portion of their population, yet have far lower
>>>> crime rates.
>>>>
>>>> What was that one definition of insanity? "Doing the same
>>>> thing over and over and expecting different results"?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the overnight news:
>>> https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article284362559.html
>>>
>>> "Omondi previously was arrested on suspicion of aggravated
>>> assault and obstruction of justice after he was accused of
>>> pointing at gun at security officers in Fort Worth in May
>>> 2023, according to Tarrant County court records. The court
>>> has ordered that information be collected about whether
>>> Omondi has a mental illness."
>>>
>>> Same thing over and over. Same results.
>>
>> Here if you were to point a gun at a police officer he and any other
>> officers present would shoot you. Several times.
>> The assumption is, of course, if you point a gun you intend to fire
>> it. And thus the officer is correct in firing.
>
> Sounds pretty reasonable.
>

And likely to have same response the world over!

Roger Merriman