On 8/12/2023 5:17 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> But most of that crud comes from the part filled domestic storage tank
>>> rusting away and biofilms forming on the condensate of moisture in the tank.
>>> A surprising amount of stuff can grow in damp kerosene vapour.
>>
>> If that were the problem, then the only remedy would be to clean the tank.
>> Instead, we would encounter problems with a "batch" of fuel that would
>> resolve when the NEXT batch was purchased (almost always from some other
>> vendor as there is no commitment to buy from the same vendor -- just like
>> you can buy your gasoline from a different vendor each week.
>>
>> The problem seemed to be on the vendor's end; not having good practices
>> for their main storage tank and/or the delivery vehicles to ensure the
>> product was delivered "as received" (by them).
>
> There may be additional problems in the US then. A heating oil dealer in the UK
> who delivered dirty fuel would not last for long before they went out of
> business. My house is on fuel oil but I only buy the stuff near midsummer when
> it is cheap if I can get away with it.

It would not be uncommon to see the oil man several times during
the winter. Summer visits less often but the furnace still ran
(to heat the DHW).

> Just after Covid lockdown the price crashed to an unbelievably low level
> because there were no commercial aircraft flying and they needed to turn the
> aviation fuel stocks back into cash somehow.

People were often very sensitive to price. So, would shop-around for
"better" prices. The guy who delivered your fuel LAST month may not
see your business THIS month.

And, the guy delivering to your neighbor may not be the same firm
that *you* are using.

>>>> Plus, regular cleaning of the sediment bowl/filter at the outlet of the
>>>> tank.
>>>
>>> Mine had a filter but I was careful never to run the heating system until
>>> the tank had time to settle again after a fill. No point in making the
>>> filter work any harder than is absolutely necessary. You don't have to
>>> change it so often if you let it settle for 12 hours or so.
>>
>> 12 hours without heat or hot water?  Shirley you jest!  :>
>
> Refuelling in summer. Hot water stays hot plenty long enough. There are other
> ways of heating the house. My CH is dual fuel it is just a bit more manual
> handling to run the entire thing off the wood burning stove.

It was relatively easy to use all of the available hot water
(lengthy shower, washing dishes, etc.). There was no storage tank
for the DHW. Instead, a heat exchanger intruded into the water jacket
of the furnace (the water there for the baseboard heat). Running the
hot water thus cooled the furnace until the furnace demanded more heat
(for itself). Likewise, running the circulating pump for the baseboard
heat (under the control of the household thermostat) would cool the
furnace and result in the furnace calling for more heat.

>> The furnace may be running *while* the oil man is filling the tank
>> as he shows up unannounced and the furnace can call for heat
>> without any knowledge of his presence.
>
> We get advanced notice of the visit (except once when one spuriously delivered
> to the right house name but in the wrong village).

If you had a standing arrangement with *a* supplier, they would
deliver when THEY thought you needed more. Likely just by keeping
track of how much you needed "last time".

[Amusing to think of how they would "manually" manage their supply,
demand and delivery routes!]

If *you* noticed your tank getting low, you would (be wise to!)
call for a delivery -- which would happen at their convenience.

The oil man would leave a "ticket" (an imprint from the mechanical
meter on the truck) that indicated how much he had delivered.
Sometimes, it would be slipped in your door. Or in your mailbox.
Or... Unless you happened to notice his presence, you had no
OTHER way of knowing that he'd been there (inspecting the level
on the tank would mean a trip into the basement, etc.)

No idea how it is done in other places (here) as it seemed unique
to the northeast (most other places seemed to use GFA or *gasp*
electric!)

>>> The peculiar oil lifter configuration of my system meant that there was a
>>> second small settlement tank close to the boiler in addition so that I
>>> almost never got any crud reaching the burner jets.
>>
>> How often do you replace the fuel filter in your *vehicle*?
>> The supplier takes steps to ensure the fuel is delivered
>> to your tank "clean" (there are filters for each of the
>> flexible hoses that deliver fuel to vehicles).
>
> I did have one fail once on a rust bucket decades ago ~100k miles.

During the "oil embargo", gas prices (and availability) got outrageous
(laughable, in hindsight). So, supplies were "whatever and wherever"
you could get them.

More than once, we'd get a batch of gas with some water in it
which would foul the tank and require a replacement of the fuel
filter (easier than letting it dry out).

[We had this neat "putty-like" substance that you could mold onto
the end of a long wire (typ an unformed coat-hanger) and dip
into the bottom of your gas tank. It would change color in
the presence of water.]

>>>> And, an oil-fired furnace (of that era) isn't particularly "picky"
>>>> about what it will burn!  If it can be atomized and ignite to
>>>> sustain a flame, that's all that mattered!
>>>
>>> Indeed and neither is a diesel engine once it has warmed up.
>>
>> But, atomizing the fuel is an issue.  Clogged jets are what
>> eventually leads the furnace to not deliver heat.  The
>> same sort of crud that fouls the furnaces jets is bad for
>> the jets in the diesel.
>
> Indeed but the fuel we get seems to be OK in that respect. I can't ever recall
> having blocked jets on my oil burner. OK my configuration is strangely
> different to the standard tiger loop or gravity feed but I wouldn't have
> thought it made all that much difference.

A "bad batch" of oil would leave the furnace needing cleaning often
(like every few days). Dad would come home and mom would greet him
with "the furnace is out (again)".

There wasn't much else you could do until you'd burned off all of
the most recently delivered fuel.

And, made a point not to call that vendor for the NEXT tankful!

>> [Well, I can't speak to modern furnaces as I've not been around oil-fired
>> heat for ~50 years and assume there have been changes to the technology
>> to increase burn efficiency, reduce emissions, etc.  All suggest
>> additional sensors beyond just knowing that you have flame!]
>
> Main change is that they are now more efficient condensing boilers instead of
> hot flue gas. The electronics don't seem to have changed all that much but they
> are made of much thinner material these days and don't last anything like as
> long as the solid old ones did.

We had no "electronics". The circulating pump was controlled (through a relay)
directly from the household thermostat. When the house called for heat,
the pump would move the water in the water jacket through the furnace and
baseboard "radiators" until the house achieved the desired temperature.

Hot water was just cold water routed through the heat exchanger (as above).

A thermostat on the furnace monitored its internal temperature and
would run the fuel pump/atomizer when the furnace temperature fell
below a setpoint; and shut it down at some level above.

One would manually adjust the "altitude" (amount of water in the
closed loop) with a valve from the municipal supply into that loop
(an expansion tank overhead accommodated changes in volume)

>>> They do in the UK at least in areas where they expect it might be used. The
>>> IRA had an interesting and profitable sideline in removing the chemical
>>> marker and dye from red diesel back in the day.
>>
>> I've never heard of a car being stopped and checked to see if it was
>> burning agricultural product (I grew up among dairy and corn farms).
>> I would think that someone would have to "snitch" on you to bring it
>> to anyone's attention.  And, then you'd have to find some authority
>> who actually cared about the violation!
>
> I have seen the odd one in carparks where people who might be doing it could be
> found. I was surprised by that. Only seen them a couple of times but they were
> definitely dipped peoples diesel fuel tanks.

What if the vehicle has a locking fuel cap? Do they present a warrant
demanding access to its contents?

>> [I.e., don't set up your own neighborhood filling station and you're
>> likely OK]
>>
>> Or, leaded gas (a friend runs it in some of his classics).  Or, avgas!
>> (a colleague used to run it in his Shelby)
>>
>> And, running "no ethanol" is reasonably common (as small engines tend
>> to fail when run on fuel with ethanol)
>
> Unleaded fuel has a bad effect on my strimmer. The plastic fuel tubing swells
> up after a few years and has to be replaced.

Yes. And plastic floats in the carburetor often suffer.
But, usually from the ethanol in the fuel.

[I keep a 5G container of "regular" on hand for those things]