On Thursday, May 12, 2022 at 11:49:21 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> Bob, you are starting to hyperventilate a bit. This is a direct cut and paste from your May 5 post:
> "Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses."
> How else is one to interpret that statement, but as a threat to revenue? If not that, what did you mean by it? I already said I contribute plenty to the local operations, which charge between $12 and $20 for a motorglider launch which is likely as much or more than the profit from a tow (and discounting the tow plane I bought). So have a good time in jail for 60 days.
>
> I'm having a hard time understanding your motivation for posting this. You come to RAS, not known as the most civil of places, disparaging and insulting a large class of pilots as being unskilled, insecure, not Real Men, Push-the-Button to get out of trouble, can't really fly cross country, etc., etc., statements clearly designed to provoke and inflame. Then when the reception is a little hot, you get your panties in a twist and complain about the temperature. If you don't like the heat, keep your thoughts to yourself, better still get some experience flying cross country in a motorglider so we can have an intelligent conversation about the subject. You are like a blind man trying to critique the Mono Lisa.
> On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 5:28:49 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 11, 2022 at 12:09:22 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > Bob, I made no implications, simply paraphrased what you said directly: that motorgliders were a threat to your revenue. You then go on to complain about the 3 towplanes and engines for them you have had to buy. To the extent that your clientele are motorgliders, they are saving you from that expense and headache. I've asked directly several times, "how much experience do you have in cross country flight in a motorglider?" I've never received an answer, which is an answer in itself. Just tooling around the gliderport for a sightseeing flight doesn't count. It does not force you to make the planning and decisions required of cross country. I'll ask again, expecting no answer: How much experience in a motorglider cross country? How many 300Ks, 500Ks, 1000Ks? Without that, you are forming your opinions on ignorance and faith - which Ambrose Bierce defined as "Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." That pretty well sums up the OP.
> > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:20:18 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 1:55:21 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > Reread it again. What I said was "but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket". And again, you originally complained about the lack of tow fees charged to motorgliders, not me.
> > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 2:33:36 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 11:29:26 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > Bob,
> > > > > > > Reread my response - I was perfectly polite (and calm). You must be confusing me with someone else :). And you were the one that brought up the lost tow fees, not me. In fact, I bought a towplane for our glider operation, after I already had a motorglider and always self launched.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ramy,
> > > > > > > I am aware that Bob is simply trolling for controversy, but he is a bit like a train wreck - hard to look away.
> > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 1:57:52 PM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 11:10:37 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Eric, myself, and many other MG pilots posting here have extensive cross country experience in both "pure" and motorgliders. I've been flying "pure" gliders since 1968 and motorgliders since 2000. Bob, you have no experience with motorgliders other than watching them from afar. So yes, we continue to ignore your uninformed and ignorant *opinion*. But this post makes clearer, perhaps, the real motivation: tow fees. That is at least rational. A motorglider is not less expensive than paying for tows - rather it costs more than all the tows you are ever likely to get - but the money ends up in some one other than Bob's pocket. And yes, the places I fly all charge a motorglider launch fee to cover the facilities, between $12 and $20 per launch. Tie down, trailer parking, oxygen, etc. are the same for either. Having seen the financials for my home field, a tow doesn't net the FBO $20 after paying for fuel, towplane maintenance, tow pilot, etc. In fact the private tows are a net loser, and are really just provided as a service, subsidized by rides and instruction.
> > > > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you need to get a grip on yourself and calm down, you should be more polite when you disagree with someone. For your information I have flown motorgliders both here in the US and abroad. I was introduced to motorgliders many years prior to your entry into the category. Secondly I do not profit from the towplane, I have personally bought three Pawnee's for the purpose of starting and developing a club, which I have and we have been very successful, probably the most successful club in the US since our inception to the sport five years ago, prior to that I flew off my own strip. The towplane engine was new in 2021, I paid for it, I paid for all maintenance and repairs, and any other associated expenses to help our club. I could continue with what I have done for soaring, but I will not ask you what you have done. Have a good evening. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 4:34:27 AM UTC-7, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 11:37:32 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > On 5/4/2022 4:27 PM, youngbl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > 's getting better!
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No Bum, keep it going, some of the mg comments have been funnier than Saturday Night Live with Eddie Murphy. I will make one comment on the MG guys remarks, your included, why haven't you mg guys been doing longer and better flights? Seems like a no brainer with that teat that you have to suck if you get low! Oh, I almost forgot Mr. Bum, I might just be your tow pilot soon if things work out, please don't be scared. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > > > > > > You've been telling us pilots use motorgliders to go farther and faster than they would in
> > > > > > > > > > > a "pure" glider, and how they plan and fly so differently than the "pure" glider pilots.
> > > > > > > > > > > But now it seems you've noticed that's not true, and are wondering why. I'm glad you've
> > > > > > > > > > > finally realized the two groups of pilots are not nearly as different as you thought. If
> > > > > > > > > > > you want to meet pilots that really do plan and fly differently from each other, talk to
> > > > > > > > > > > 1-26 pilots and Nimbus 3 pilots!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Once again: Most pilots buy a motorglider for convenience, not speed and distance. You
> > > > > > > > > > > know, getting launched where there aren't any towplanes, avoiding that hour-long wait in
> > > > > > > > > > > the towline, reliably getting home on time, that kind of thing. Convenience, Bob,
> > > > > > > > > > > Convenience!
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Eric Greenwell - USA
> > > > > > > > > > > - "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
> > > > > > > > > > > https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications
> > > > > > > > > > Eric, I have flown with MG pilots, there is more to MG's than convenience, and you still ignore the opinion that there is a difference between the two paradigms. Yes, I do like enlightening you MG and sustainer guys, your skewed justification and lack of acknowledging the differences amuses me, I still laugh! Now at least the sustainer guys contribute to the club when they are towed, 40-60 bucks helps the club with the overall operating expenses. Does you club charge the self launch pilot for use of the field or do they just get in their self launch and depart and go back home for an early dinner and pack their ship away? I think that or club will start charging a field use for self launch gliders, say 15 bucks for each self launch departure, after all we must pay the rent and fuel bill for the tractor that mows the strip. Now I know that , "The Bum", is going to get bent out of shape on this idea, but if he comes to Vero I will pay the fee for his use of the field. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > > > Mr. Fitch, you are the one that needs to re-read your post, you made reference about money going into Bob's pocket, maybe you are forgetting a few things. Old Bob, The Purist
> > > > Mr Fitch, your implications speak for themselves. Old Bob, The Purist
> > Mr. Fitch, I have never stated as you have implied anything about tow money being a threat to my revenue On May5th I asked the question about motorgliders paying a fee for use of the field, maybe you should go back and do your homework prior to making statements about people that are not true. I will make a bet with you, OK? If I made the remark as you have stated I will take a RAS fine and go directly to the suspension arena for 60 days. If you cannot produce the comment as you described, "A Threat To MY Revenue", then you will go directly to RAS jail for 60 days, deal? Frankly speaking Mr. Fitch, you are delusional. Old Bob, The Purist
Mr Fitch, you need to refresh and find where as you stated in the possessive term that the tow revenue was directed toward me. As I have stated, I am not the club, I hold no title with the club, the club is not Bob, as you have implied. Please show me where as you stated that I have said that the loss of the fee was , "A Threat To My Revenue".
Now show me where I made that comment! Do you understand what a possessive noun is?
Ramy, I will await his reply.