On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > >> >> >>
> > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens.. Do a
> > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > >> >> >
> > > > >> >> +1
> > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > >> >>
> > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > >
> > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > >
> > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > >>
> > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > >> #4).
> > > > >
> > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > my
> > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > >
> > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > >
> > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > >
> > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > negligible.
> > > >
> > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > malpractice.
> > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > >
> > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > >
> > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency . .. . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> >
> > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.

I thought you told us that you had BEEN to Japan? Then why don't you know why the incidence of smoking and lung cancer is different?