On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 12:28:57 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 9:28:43 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > On Friday, October 8, 2021 at 8:28:33 AM UTC-7, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 4:07:00 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 1:07:53 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 1:27:18 PM UTC-7, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > >> jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> writes:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > On Tuesday, October 5, 2021 at 8:44:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > >> >> On 10/5/2021 10:15 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
> > > > > >> >> > "russell...@yahoo.com" <ritzann...@gmail.com> writes:
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> >> On Monday, October 4, 2021 at 9:28:05 AM UTC-5, sms wrote:
> > > > > >> >> >>>
> > > > > >> >> >>> Now that companies are firing employees that refuse to get vaccinated,
> > > > > >> >> >>> and universities are expelling students that refuse to get vaccinated
> > > > > >> >> >>> (other than those that have a valid medical reason for refusing), the
> > > > > >> >> >>> percentages will start to rise in the U.S..
> > > > > >> >> >>
> > > > > >> >> >> Maybe, possibly, if we are really lucky. BUT, even if the vaccination
> > > > > >> >> >> rises due to the threats, it will be a miniscule minimal amount. 0.1%
> > > > > >> >> >> each month or so. As you state we are at 56.3% fully vaccinated now.
> > > > > >> >> >> If my 0.1% is accurate, it will take 15 years 7 months to reach that
> > > > > >> >> >> mythical herd immunity percentage of 75%. 1 million, 2 million, 3
> > > > > >> >> >> million more dead people? From a disease that is easily prevented
> > > > > >> >> >> with an available vaccine. Is that winning?
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Except it's not prevented by the available vaccine. CDC agrees that
> > > > > >> >> > vaccinated people can and do become infected and do spread the disease.
> > > > > >> >> > The "mythical" herd immunity vaccination threshold is indeed mythical,
> > > > > >> >> > there is no reason to think that covid would vanish even at 100%
> > > > > >> >> > vaccination.
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> > Successful human vaccines, such as smallpox, polio, measles, mumps,
> > > > > >> >> > pertussis, &c produce "sterilizing immunity". The vaccinated do not
> > > > > >> >> > become infected. The available covid vaccines do not work this way and
> > > > > >> >> > hence are not comparable. Leaky vaccines like those for covid allow the
> > > > > >> >> > virus to continue to evolve among the vaccinated, which has given rise
> > > > > >> >> > to at least one remarkably lethal viral disease in chickens. Do a
> > > > > >> >> > search for "Marek's disease".
> > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > >> >> +1
> > > > > >> >> Which is why I have avoided calling the Pfizer/Moderna mRNA
> > > > > >> >> products 'vaccine'. J&J is an actual vaccine of attenuated
> > > > > >> >> virus.
> > > > > >> >>
> > > > > >> >> The mRNA jab promotes production of a blood-borne antibody.
> > > > > >> >> An antibody, one of the body's defenses, but only one.
> > > > > >> >> This is an important aspect of human immune response and is
> > > > > >> >> effective for the (sometimes fatal)
> > > > > >> >> vascular/cardiac/respiratory damage caused by a combination
> > > > > >> >> of the virus and cysteine response. It does not promote
> > > > > >> >> production of respiratory/mucosa antibodies (found in
> > > > > >> >> 'natural' immunity) so you are exactly right. The mRNA shot
> > > > > >> >> will likely keep you from dying but will not stop you from
> > > > > >> >> contracting or spreading the CCP Wuhan product.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > "Natural immunity" isn't faring that well.
> > > > > >> > https://news.yale.edu/2021/10/01/unvaccinated-reinfection-sars-cov-2-likely-study-finds
> > > > > >> > Natural immunity and a vaccine appear to be the ticket, although one
> > > > > >> > would prefer to skip being sick to start with. No vaccine is 100% and
> > > > > >> > many are not effective forever. Flu vaccines are notoriously
> > > > > >> > ineffective, but we still take them, and they prevent some infections.
> > > > > >> Who is this "we"? Patients in the US are able to choose whether to get
> > > > > >> a flu shot or not. They should be able to make a choice with respect to
> > > > > >> covid as well. For healthy young people the covid vaccine is almost
> > > > > >> certainly more dangerous, (albeit fairly safe), than infection with covid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Almost certainly? CDC says that vaccines are safer for young people
> > > > > > than the disease, but maybe they are lying to us because they want to
> > > > > > kill young people. Personally, I think we should be out to kill the
> > > > > > old people to reduce the pressure on the SS/Medicare trusts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> As for natural immunity, here's a paper based on Israeli data that
> > > > > >> claims considerably more protection from natural immunity than from
> > > > > >> vaccination:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> You might note that Israel was and is at the forefront in coercing their
> > > > > >> citizens into covid vaccination. It does not seem to have gone very
> > > > > >> well; last I read they were considering a mandate for boooster #2 (shot
> > > > > >> #4).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Israel study showed that natural immunity and at least one dose of
> > > > > > vaccine provided the best immunity. That's why I mentioned it.
> > > > > > Whether their observational retrospective study is accurate is beyond
> > > > > > my
> > > > > > expertise. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/
> > > > > > The Yale study uses a different methodology, and I haven't read it
> > > > > > completely, but it is peer reviewed and in Lancet. The bottom line
> > > > > > for both studies is that getting poked is a plus, whether you're
> > > > > > previously infected or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > You might be interested in a physician's comments on the Israeli study:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://aaronkheriaty.substack.com/p/on-vaccinating-those-with-natural
> > > > >
> > > > > Essentially he says that the benefit of an extra shot for the recovered
> > > > > is negligible, and only detected in the study as asymptomatic
> > > > > infections. Whereas the risk of vaccination, while small, is not
> > > > > negligible.
> > > > >
> > > > > An extra shot might possibly make sense for someone as old as you or me,
> > > > > but for someone under 30 it almost certainly does not. For someone
> > > > > under 12, Pfizer's next target market, it's just straight up medical
> > > > > malpractice.
> > > > Really, that's an opinion piece and not science. He's an associate clinical professor of psychiatry. Its notable that, to him, the "clinically significant" side effects were: "fever, fatigue, myalgia-arthralgia and lymphadenopathy." I have all those things just sitting here in my office chair -- well, not really a fever, but I do feel hot. It could be my fleece jacket.
> > > >
> > > > I felt crappy after my second shot, which is apparently a good sign that my immune system is working. I felt worse after my first shingles shot. I felt ten times worse after my ride last weekend, but it could have been from drinking too much beer the day before.
> > > >
> > > > And there is no question that a vaccine helps people in Kentucky. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0806-vaccination-protection.html They could be different from people in Israel.
> > > Jay, why the pretense that psychiatry isn't a specialty that one assumes AFTER they've gone through medical school and completed their residency? Or perhaps you aren't aware of that?
> > Dear dope, yes a psychiatrist completes medical school and a residency .. . . in psychiatry. The residency involves giving people like you a lot of Haloperidol and a sunny spot to park their wheelchairs. It does not involve epidemiology, virology or evaluating retrospective cohort studies. There are actual epidemiologists who do that.
> > >
> > > Now the world according to Jay is that Jews are different from real people. Are you now joining John is solid racist beliefs?
> > The world according to actual scientists is that different populations may have different responses to various therapies or pathogens/toxins for a number of reasons. Consider the Japanese smoking paradox: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12889681/ There are many examples.
> Dear Jay, I just told you, these people are MD's and THEN specialize by getting a PhD in psychiatry. Apparently you never looked on the wall of your own psychiatrists office.

Wow Tommy. You never cease to amaze me with the number of things you can be wrong about. Wow. No PhD in psychiatry.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/what-is-psychiatry-menu
Psychiatric Training
To become a psychiatrist, a person must complete medical school and take a written examination for a state license to practice medicine, and then complete four years of psychiatry residency. The first year of residency training is typically in a hospital working with patients with a wide range of medical illnesses. The psychiatrist-in-training then spends at least three additional years learning the diagnosis and treatment of mental health, including various forms of psychotherapy and the use of psychiatric medications and other treatments. Training takes place in in-patient, out-patient, and emergency room settings.

After completing residency training, most psychiatrists take a voluntary written and oral examination given by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology to become a "board certified" psychiatrist. They must be re-certified every 10 years.

Some psychiatrists also complete additional specialized training after their four years of general psychiatry training. They may become certified in:

Child and adolescent psychiatry
Geriatric psychiatry
Forensic (legal) psychiatry
Addiction psychiatry
Pain medicine
Psychosomatic (mind and body) medicine
Sleep medicine
Some psychiatrists choose additional training in psychoanalysis or in psychiatric research.