On Tue, 9 Jan 2024 09:14:56 -0500, Newyana2 wrote:

> I've used APKPure to avoid Google and Google accounts.

The way to avoid the Google account is to not set it up in the first place.
Since every Google app has a FOSS equivalent, it's easy not to have it.

You were using APKPure as the equivalent of the Google Play Store client.
That works because they give you the same APK as you find on Google's repo.

But there are also a few very nice FOSS Google Play Store clients too.

Like any browser acts similarly on any given server, these FOSS Google Play
Store clients look and act like the Google Play Store client.

Without you having to create a Google account set up on your phone.

> I wasn't aware that APKs could be installed by hand, but I did find
> instructions for it yesterday.

I don't know what you mean by "installed by hand" but I assume you mean you
weren't aware that APKs are installed just by tapping on them in Android.

You can always install any APK just from having saved that APK anywhere.
(1) You copy the APK from anywhere to the phone storage
(2) Then you tap on that APK and it will ask you if you want to install it

You don't need any applications whatsoever. Not a browser. Not a client.
Nothing. Android comes native with an APK installer.

What most people do is keep an APK archive on their network storage drive.
That archive contains every APK that they ever installed on their phone.

Including the subversions (just in case they want to roll a version back).

That way when they get a new phone or populate someone else's phone, they
just connect the network storage drive and copy over the APKs to the phone.

> As I said earlier, I don't use my cellphone for much. I treat it as mostly
> just a portable phone booth -- since real phone booths have disappeared.
> It sits in the glove compartment, turned off, most of the time.

Understood. That some give babies an old broken phone to play with shows
that we probably are using the phone too much during our daily existence.

> The whole idea of using a computer that I have almost no control over
> gives me the creeps. Recently I decided to let it upgrade for the first
> time and that turned out to be a mistake. Now, every time I turn it on
> there's a stream of popup nags telling me that various things I've
> disalbed can't work without Google Play Services or some such enabled!

Disabling Google Play Services (com.google.android.gms) kills a lot.
https://developers.google.com/android/reference/packages

I don't know if you can turn off all notifications (probably you can).
But you can turn off specific notifications (different by version).
https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-turn-off-notifications-in-android/

> I'm loathe top spend 2 months trying to learn how to manage Android
> adeptly, given that it seems to be a losing battle, with Android designed
> as a kiosk system by arguably the sleaziest tech company of all.

You learn Android by trying to make it do what you want to make it do.
It seems the first thing you must do, you already did long ago.

And that is to set up the Android device without any Google account on it.
People who have not done that will never understand how Android works.

If you already have an account set up, you need to remove that account.
Once you remove that account, you replace the Google apps with FOSS apps.

It's really that easy.

>| So AFAICT, you can't download the fully functional version from APKPure.
>| But why not just download it from GitHub like everyone else does?
>| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard
>| https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases
>|
> https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases/download/2.327/NetGuard-v2.327-release.apk
> I will. Thank you.

I see that you did this and you responded back that it worked for you.

You probably picked up that APK using a web browser on Android, and then
the web browser asked if it could install that app for you, and then
Android asked if that was OK with you - and then Android installed the app.

But in reality you didn't need the web browser at all.
You could have downloaded that app and just saved it to your device.

Then you could have used any file manager to find that APK on your device.
And you could have tapped on the APK which does the same things.

The web browser isn't needed.
It's just a way to get the app.

And a special app installer isn't needed either (like the APKPure one).
Because Android already has an app installer native.

Not to delve too deep, but there are "split APKs" which I know APKPure
handles but I'm not sure if the native Android installer handles those.

I've never had to deal with a split APK yet.
I don't even know where to get them to test that concept out.

>| The bad thing about NetGuard is it's a firewall.
>| And a HOSTS file (that can block domain names).
>| With a whitelist, and with a blacklist.
>| And an ad blocker (which uses that HOSTS file).
>| And it blocks on a per-app basis.
>
> Amazing. That's one of the critical features that I've always
> found lacking on Linux -- A simple, easy-to-use firewall that
> can block outgoing on a per-app basis.

NetGuard is a wonderful firewall whose advantage is it works without root.
It's also nice that it's free. And it has no advertisements. No annoyances.

But you have to be careful how you set it up as you can block too much.

>| It can block, per app, the app's Wi-Fi access.
>| Or it can block, per app, the app's cellular data access.
>| It can block roaming by EU, INternataional, LTE, 3G, 2G, whatever.
>| It can have rules for only when the screen is on.
>| It can log all Internet access and track network usage.
>| It can manage rules for system apps specifically.
>| It can send notifications on Internet access.
>| It can filter UDP traffic and do port forwarding and SOCKS5 and PCAP.
>| It can do subnet routing to enable Wi-Fi calling.
>| It can import/export & backup settings (to use your setup with hers).
>
>| And it acts as a VPN.
>|
>
> VPN? To use NetGuard is to go through their server? Are you
> saying that that's how all the functionality works -- that it
> doesn't actually function in Android but rather provides a
> man-in-the-middle filter online? And people trust the NetGuard
> server... why?

No. It does NOT go through any server that I know of, so that's not what I
had meant by it acts like a VPN. I don't know really, how NetGuard does it.

NetGuard avoids root I think by impersonating a VPN which I've never really
understood - but I hope it doesn't prevent you from using another VPN?

I don't know how that works so if you figure that out, let me know.

>| While it's easy to use, and well respected and safe, it's kind of like the
>| power of the tor browser where most people will be burned by it in the
> end.
>|
> I see what you mean. So it needs some knowledgeable config.

It's too powerful in some ways.
Especially if you set up rules, whitelists, blacklists and the like.

You could set up an app, for example, to have no data access.
But to have Wi-Fi access.

And then you forget, months later, that you had set that app that way.
Months layer you try to use that app on cellular data and it fails.
But it works on Wi-Fi.

Now you have to debug why it's not working on cellular but ok on Wi-Fi.

When something doesn't work, you can always disable NetGuard to debug.
It has an automatic re-enable (off by default) after a set time period.

When it happens to you, you can debug by temporarily disabling NetGuard.
When it happens to her, she will call your 800 number for customer support.

>| Why do you use APKPure anyway?
>| There's nothing APKPure gives you that you don't already have.
>
> I assumed that such a service was the only way to get something
> installed. So, then, what's the other option?

It's a good thing you said you didn't know much about Android as one of the
first thing anyone learns about Android is how to populate it with APKs.

It populates no different than Windows does (browser, wget, whatever).

Let's take the example of this NetGuard APK to show you how it works.
Let's say you're on Windows most of the time - so I'll use that example.

Archiving APK installers is the same as Windows archives its installers.

(1) You use a search engine to find the URL to any installer you want
https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases/download/2.327/NetGuard-v2.327-release.apk
(2) You use any downloader program to get that URL into your archives
wget github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases/download/2.327/NetGuard-v2.327-release.apk
(3) You organize your archive as you see fit to save for future use
E:\myandroidapps\firewalls\NetGuard-v2.327-release.apk

Installing on Android is the same as how Windows does for msi or exe files.

Minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or years after you've archived it...
(1) You copy that APK over to your Android phone (any way you can)
(2) On your Android phone you tap on the APK
(3) Android will ask you if you want to install it

Do you agree that this is exactly the same method that Windows uses?

Android has one huge advantage over Windows in that, in Windows, if you've
installed a program from an exe or msi file, you can't get that exe or msi
installer back if you subsequently delete that Windows installer file.

But Android can always give you back your installer file any time you ask.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q=extract%20apk&c=apps

Those APK extractors even extract system apps, which is useful if you liked
a particular default app on one phone that isn't found on your next phone.

Does anything like those APK extractors exist on Windows?
I don't know of any.

I know of debuggers which dig into an msi file to tell you what it's doing
but I don't know of any apps that will re-create that msi of you lose it.

> Say, for example, that
> I wanted an Explorer-type program. I found such a thing on APKPure.
> If I didn't go there, how would I find and access such a program?

Download & install this GitHub app the same way you did with NetGuard.
https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore/-/releases
https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore/uploads/ac32503aee88c6d1067dad57f3f92e09/AuroraStore_4.3.5.apk
Name: AuroraStore_4.3.5.apk
Size: 6267966 bytes (6121 KiB)
SHA256: 22E54C6445E16FA704A607C3E8D18ADF1429AE55952FB1C6E582D927E16AE594

It's literally the Google Play Store.
Without you needing to create a Google account.

This app shouldn't really be called a 'store' because that confuses people.
The dumber they are, the more they consider it like the Galaxy Store.
It's not a store. It is just a client that accesses the Google Play Store
repository - which gets the exact same app as the Google Play Store does.

Just like any FTP client does. Or an HTTP client does. Or any client does.
But without you needing to create a Google account to access its repo.
So there's no tracking of what you got on that Google Play Store repo.

There are many apps to replace each Google app that is on your phone.
Each app is designed to do what you want, but without the Google account.

> In the case of my friend, she has an app from Cornell to ID birdsong
> and something else to ID plants. If I were searching with no
> information, not knowing about those apps, how would I find them?

I don't want to give you too many ways, but there are so many ways to find
good apps and filter out the bad ones, that I'll only give you this way for
now (but you can do it many ways that most people don't even know about).

You sit at your computer, let's assume it's a Windows computer for now.
You run a Google/DDG/Metager search to find the name of an app you like.

The one thing you DO NOT DO is run a search on https://play.google.com.
Yes, I know some people do that. But that's the WORST way to find apps.

So just don't do it.
Don't be like everyone else is.

In fact, a way I can tell if a person knows anything about Android is I ask
them the same question you just asked me. How do YOU find apps for Android.

If they tell me they search on https://play.google.com/ - then I know they
don't know anything about Android because that's the worst way to get apps.

Again, there are MANY ways to get apps, some even better than the method
below I'm going to suggest you try first, but let's just start with this.

Let's say, for arguments sake, you sat on your desktop and you ran a Google
or DDG or Metager or whatever search engine you want search on that desktop
for plant-identification apps, and you find the following apps to try out.

(1) PlantNet Plant Identification
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.plantnet
(2) Flora Incognita Plant Identification
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.floraincognita.app.floraincognita
(3) Seek by iNaturalist Plant and Animal Identification
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.inaturalist.seek

Since I know how to search & how to filter out bad results (which some
people don't know how to do) I can assure you all of those are free, and
none of those has advertisements, and none of them require an account
(some might ask for the account, but they'll let you skip it easily).

They want the account for legitimate purposes, but you will skip it.

If you ask most people the same question, they would almost certainly give
you the most advertised plant identification app out there, which is
Google Lens
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.ar.lens

But if you know anything about Android, you won't use any Google apps.

Even so, I could have given you apps which I consider nagware such as
ScaleUp Plant App - Plant Identifier
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.scaleup.plantid

Or I could have given you apps that don't let you skip account creation.
Conceptiv Apps - Blossom Plant Identifier, Conceptiv Apps
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.conceptivapps.blossom

But I didn't.
Because I know how to use filtering in a search engine.

And because I have really good Android search engines.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scadica.aq

Which is how I know that the Google Play Store web search is the worst.
Anyway, once you have the Google Play Store URL to the app, you just get it
from the aurora app that I told you about before and it will get it to you.

A bonus is it will automatically save the APK installer, just like Windows
does, which again, shows that Android works the same as Windows does.

Every installer is always saved so that if you installed it on one phone,
you can copy it over to any other phone and it will almost always work.

An exception is your phone may be new and the other phone old such that the
newer software calls APIs that aren't on that much older Android phone.

But that's no different than how Windows does things, which is why I bring
up that installing apps on Android is no different than it is on Windows.

> How would I discover the possible selection?

Same way I just now "discovered" this Cornell bird-identification app.
Merlin Bird ID by Cornell Lab
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.labs.merlinbirdid.app

What you're looking for is this Cornell GoBotany plant identification app.
https://events.cornell.edu/event/gobotany_an_app_for_identifying_the_more_than_4000_plants_with_simple_keys

>? And once I found, say,
> the Cornell app, how would I get it? Are they all different, such that
> I might need to find a URL for Cornell, but perhaps a Github URL for
> another similar app?

The first Cornell app just above you would find and get using aurora.
The second you can't get until you find a URL which is not on Google.

> So, then, is it like going to a software download
> site vs the author's site? On Windows that's a complicated affair. For
> instance, MajorGeeks might have software that no longer has a
> website. On the other hand, I'd never download from CNet. Softpedia
> doesn't work without enabling javascript. And some sources might
> give me malware.

It's simpler than Windows because it's like getting almost all your apps
from the Microsoft Store but using a better app than the MS one to get it.

There are only really three different places to get Android apps.
(1) The vast majority will be on the Google Play Store repository
(2) The FOSS apps will be on the F-Droid repository
(3) The developer's apps that aren't on either will be scatted about
Mostly on GitHub.

You get the first set above using aurora on the Android phone.
The other two sets you get using a web browser on your PC usually.

You NEVER need to use a browser on the Android phone to get apps.
If you're going to use a browser, you should do it on the Windows PC.

> (I've seen many times in my own server logs where someone found my
> software at a download site and tried to download an outdated version.
> The link is dead, so they come to my site directly. They confirm that
> the software exists, ignore my direct link, and go back to the download
> site to get a few more 404s before giving up. :) So perhaps that's
> basically what I'm doing with APKPure?

Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with APKPure.
It's just unnecessary.

Not bad. Just not needed.
But you can use APKPure if that's what you like using.

You can download those APKs with a web browser on Windows and save them.
Then you copy the APKs over to Android and tap on them to install them.

It's just better in many ways to use aurora to get them directly off the
Google Play Store repository - and you still get to save the APKs.

Try it. I think you'll like it. Let me know if you've tried it.

Use your PC web browser to get this APK and save it to your PC storage.
Then copy the APK to Android and just tap on it to install them.

https://gitlab.com/AuroraOSS/AuroraStore/uploads/ac32503aee88c6d1067dad57f3f92e09/AuroraStore_4.3.5.apk
Search for something like "Cornell Bird" in it & let me know what you get.