On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 7:37:11 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 3/13/2022 9:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 3/13/2022 7:41 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:27:36 PM UTC-7, Roger
> >> Merriman wrote:
> >>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-7, Roger
> >>>> Merriman wrote:
> >>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/12/2022 9:33 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:55:47 PM UTC-6, John
> >>>>>>> B. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Roger
> >>>>>>>> Merriman
> >>>>>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2022 8:46 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Older roads tend to be steeper more direct, horse
> >>>>>>>>>>> and cart can be pushed up
> >>>>>>>>>>> the inclines, the advent of the motor car and its
> >>>>>>>>>>> lack of power, triggered
> >>>>>>>>>>> the switch back climbs being built vs just direct
> >>>>>>>>>>> up!
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Maybe 15 years ago on a solo ride, I
> >>>>>>>>>> came across a road
> >>>>>>>>>> that's well within my riding territory, but that
> >>>>>>>>>> I'd somehow never
> >>>>>>>>>> ridden. On turning a bend, I saw a fearsome
> >>>>>>>>>> looking climb - or rather, I
> >>>>>>>>>> saw that the road must go up to the top of a very
> >>>>>>>>>> tall ridge; the road
> >>>>>>>>>> itself wasn't visible through the trees.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I very specifically thought "I'll be OK because it
> >>>>>>>>>> can't possibly go
> >>>>>>>>>> straight up. This is an old road, and a horse
> >>>>>>>>>> pulling a wagon could
> >>>>>>>>>> never make it straight up. There must be
> >>>>>>>>>> switchbacks."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. It was straight up. I don't know the
> >>>>>>>>>> grade, but I remember
> >>>>>>>>>> being in my touring bike's granny gear and still
> >>>>>>>>>> needing to stand to
> >>>>>>>>>> complete the climb.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> So I guess my "horse and wagon" thinking was
> >>>>>>>>>> backwards.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> American maybe different, I assume native Americans
> >>>>>>>>> had pack roads in
> >>>>>>>>> places? But yes the old road ie few 1000 years old,
> >>>>>>>>> often hug the ridge
> >>>>>>>>> line and take a direct route, vs inclined routes
> >>>>>>>>> that more modern roads
> >>>>>>>>> use.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
> >>>>>>>> I grew up in New Hampshire where certainly some
> >>>>>>>> roads dated back to
> >>>>>>>> the 1700's and I don't remember any "switchback"
> >>>>>>>> roads. But equally
> >>>>>>>> true roads didn't go up, or down, extreme
> >>>>>>>> slopes.There is always a way
> >>>>>>>> around although it may be longer (:-)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for Native Americans, I doubt very much that
> >>>>>>>> prior to the invasion
> >>>>>>>> of the Europeans that had anything more then foot
> >>>>>>>> paths as their only
> >>>>>>>> "beast of burden" was a dog.
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John B.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There weren't horses, mules, donkeys, oxen, cows in
> >>>>>>> North America before
> >>>>>>> Europeans brought them over in the 1600s when they
> >>>>>>> found America? Had
> >>>>>>> Native Americans invented wheels before Europeans
> >>>>>>> brought them over to North America?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There were none of those things.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We don't think of it that way, but it was still the
> >>>>>> Stone Age in
> >>>>>> pre-Columbian North America. Pre-Columbian Indians (or
> >>>>>> whatever's the
> >>>>>> correct term this week) had some limited use of
> >>>>>> copper, but typically
> >>>>>> their tools were stone, not (say) bronze. They
> >>>>>> certainly had no iron or
> >>>>>> steel. Also no wheels, etc. However, there were
> >>>>>> societies and trading
> >>>>>> systems that were advanced in other ways.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Jared Diamond's book "Guns, Germs and Steel" is well
> >>>>>> worth reading.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Indeed!
> >>>>
> >>>> Is this the book that the PBS series was based upon that
> >>>> claimed the
> >>>> Columbus purposely infected the New World with old world
> >>>> diseases?
> >>>>
> >>> Been a long time since I read the book, but I don’t
> >>> recall purposely, after
> >>> all they didn’t know what caused infection at that point
> >>
> >> They didn't know what caused it but they know about
> >> "contagion" from before the 14th Century. But it would
> >> have been ridiculous for anyone to believe that a disease
> >> that did not show on people could infect others that had
> >> never been exposed to it.
> >>
> >> So the problem wasn't that Columbus or any of his crew did
> >> this or that but that the Woke people claimed it so.
> >
> > Please give a direct quote of a reputable historic source
> > that says what you claimed.
> >
> > Or to be more blunt: Stop arguing against what you wish
> > people said. Pay attention to what they've actually said.
> > Take notes so you can tell the difference, because your
> > "memory" isn't working.
> >
> A University if not The University at Columbus Ohio.
>
> https://u.osu.edu/posterchildchristophercolumbus/villain-columbus/
>
> Under the heading 'Villain Columbus' we read, "Thousands of
> them were killed either by disease, by overworking or by the
> hands of Columbus and his men."

The trouble with Frank is that he isn't interested one iota in the truth. He simply wants to oppose anything I have to say. Remember that in 1984 Orwell wrote that every day at a certain time you were encouraged to hate everyone else for two minutes? Well, Frank has made an art out of it and devotes his entire lifetime to it. This is what the he has become. And why is that? Because he never became anything. Imagine the feelings that shoot through him every time he realizes that someone without HIS education changed the world and he couldn't even change himself. He carries so much hatred about that that I have no doubts that if he is admitted to an emergency hospital and realizes that he is being treated by one of the machines I pioneered that he will have a stroke and die rather than admit that someone with a "mere" high school education did that.