On 3/14/2022 5:22 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 8:04:46 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> On 3/13/2022 9:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 3/13/2022 7:41 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:27:36 PM UTC-7, Roger
>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-7, Roger
>>>>>>> Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2022 9:33 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:55:47 PM UTC-6, John
>>>>>>>>>> B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Roger
>>>>>>>>>>> Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2022 8:46 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Older roads tend to be steeper more direct, horse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and cart can be pushed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the inclines, the advent of the motor car and its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of power, triggered
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the switch back climbs being built vs just direct
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Maybe 15 years ago on a solo ride, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> came across a road
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that's well within my riding territory, but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd somehow never
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ridden. On turning a bend, I saw a fearsome
>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking climb - or rather, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> saw that the road must go up to the top of a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tall ridge; the road
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself wasn't visible through the trees.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very specifically thought "I'll be OK because it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't possibly go
>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight up. This is an old road, and a horse
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pulling a wagon could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> never make it straight up. There must be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switchbacks."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. It was straight up. I don't know the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> grade, but I remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>> being in my touring bike's granny gear and still
>>>>>>>>>>>>> needing to stand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> complete the climb.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So I guess my "horse and wagon" thinking was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> American maybe different, I assume native Americans
>>>>>>>>>>>> had pack roads in
>>>>>>>>>>>> places? But yes the old road ie few 1000 years old,
>>>>>>>>>>>> often hug the ridge
>>>>>>>>>>>> line and take a direct route, vs inclined routes
>>>>>>>>>>>> that more modern roads
>>>>>>>>>>>> use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>>> I grew up in New Hampshire where certainly some
>>>>>>>>>>> roads dated back to
>>>>>>>>>>> the 1700's and I don't remember any "switchback"
>>>>>>>>>>> roads. But equally
>>>>>>>>>>> true roads didn't go up, or down, extreme
>>>>>>>>>>> slopes.There is always a way
>>>>>>>>>>> around although it may be longer (:-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As for Native Americans, I doubt very much that
>>>>>>>>>>> prior to the invasion
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Europeans that had anything more then foot
>>>>>>>>>>> paths as their only
>>>>>>>>>>> "beast of burden" was a dog.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> John B.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There weren't horses, mules, donkeys, oxen, cows in
>>>>>>>>>> North America before
>>>>>>>>>> Europeans brought them over in the 1600s when they
>>>>>>>>>> found America? Had
>>>>>>>>>> Native Americans invented wheels before Europeans
>>>>>>>>>> brought them over to North America?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There were none of those things.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We don't think of it that way, but it was still the
>>>>>>>>> Stone Age in
>>>>>>>>> pre-Columbian North America. Pre-Columbian Indians (or
>>>>>>>>> whatever's the
>>>>>>>>> correct term this week) had some limited use of
>>>>>>>>> copper, but typically
>>>>>>>>> their tools were stone, not (say) bronze. They
>>>>>>>>> certainly had no iron or
>>>>>>>>> steel. Also no wheels, etc. However, there were
>>>>>>>>> societies and trading
>>>>>>>>> systems that were advanced in other ways.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jared Diamond's book "Guns, Germs and Steel" is well
>>>>>>>>> worth reading.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this the book that the PBS series was based upon that
>>>>>>> claimed the
>>>>>>> Columbus purposely infected the New World with old world
>>>>>>> diseases?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Been a long time since I read the book, but I don’t
>>>>>> recall purposely, after
>>>>>> all they didn’t know what caused infection at that point
>>>>>
>>>>> They didn't know what caused it but they know about
>>>>> "contagion" from before the 14th Century. But it would
>>>>> have been ridiculous for anyone to believe that a disease
>>>>> that did not show on people could infect others that had
>>>>> never been exposed to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the problem wasn't that Columbus or any of his crew did
>>>>> this or that but that the Woke people claimed it so.
>>>>
>>>> Please give a direct quote of a reputable historic source
>>>> that says what you claimed.
>>>>
>>>> Or to be more blunt: Stop arguing against what you wish
>>>> people said. Pay attention to what they've actually said.
>>>> Take notes so you can tell the difference, because your
>>>> "memory" isn't working.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A University if not The University at Columbus Ohio.
>>>
>>> https://u.osu.edu/posterchildchristophercolumbus/villain-columbus/
>>>
>>> Under the heading 'Villain Columbus' we read, "Thousands of
>>> them were killed either by disease, by overworking or by the
>>> hands of Columbus and his men."
>>>
>>>
>> Indeed, but realistically the disease isn’t deliberate, and frankly sins of
>> your father only go so far.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> How about when the British gave blankets from smallpox wards to the natives?

Yes, that happened. But Columbus wasn't British. Tom is still wrong, as
usual.

--
- Frank Krygowski