On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 14:46:28 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 2:23:01 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>> On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 8:04:46 a.m. UTC-4, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> > AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> > > On 3/13/2022 9:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > >> On 3/13/2022 7:41 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > >>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:27:36 PM UTC-7, Roger
>> > >>> Merriman wrote:
>> > >>>> Tom Kunich <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >>>>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 11:29:11 AM UTC-7, Roger
>> > >>>>> Merriman wrote:
>> > >>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>> On 3/12/2022 9:33 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 4:55:47 PM UTC-6, John
>> > >>>>>>>> B. wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 19:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Roger
>> > >>>>>>>>> Merriman
>> > >>>>>>>>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2022 8:46 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Older roads tend to be steeper more direct, horse
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> and cart can be pushed up
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the inclines, the advent of the motor car and its
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> lack of power, triggered
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> the switch back climbs being built vs just direct
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> up!
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Maybe 15 years ago on a solo ride, I
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> came across a road
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> that's well within my riding territory, but that
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I'd somehow never
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ridden. On turning a bend, I saw a fearsome
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> looking climb - or rather, I
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> saw that the road must go up to the top of a very
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> tall ridge; the road
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> itself wasn't visible through the trees.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I very specifically thought "I'll be OK because it
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> can't possibly go
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> straight up. This is an old road, and a horse
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> pulling a wagon could
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> never make it straight up. There must be
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> switchbacks."
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. It was straight up. I don't know the
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> grade, but I remember
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> being in my touring bike's granny gear and still
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> needing to stand to
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> complete the climb.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> So I guess my "horse and wagon" thinking was
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> backwards.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> American maybe different, I assume native Americans
>> > >>>>>>>>>> had pack roads in
>> > >>>>>>>>>> places? But yes the old road ie few 1000 years old,
>> > >>>>>>>>>> often hug the ridge
>> > >>>>>>>>>> line and take a direct route, vs inclined routes
>> > >>>>>>>>>> that more modern roads
>> > >>>>>>>>>> use.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>> > >>>>>>>>> I grew up in New Hampshire where certainly some
>> > >>>>>>>>> roads dated back to
>> > >>>>>>>>> the 1700's and I don't remember any "switchback"
>> > >>>>>>>>> roads. But equally
>> > >>>>>>>>> true roads didn't go up, or down, extreme
>> > >>>>>>>>> slopes.There is always a way
>> > >>>>>>>>> around although it may be longer (:-)
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> As for Native Americans, I doubt very much that
>> > >>>>>>>>> prior to the invasion
>> > >>>>>>>>> of the Europeans that had anything more then foot
>> > >>>>>>>>> paths as their only
>> > >>>>>>>>> "beast of burden" was a dog.
>> > >>>>>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> John B.
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> There weren't horses, mules, donkeys, oxen, cows in
>> > >>>>>>>> North America before
>> > >>>>>>>> Europeans brought them over in the 1600s when they
>> > >>>>>>>> found America? Had
>> > >>>>>>>> Native Americans invented wheels before Europeans
>> > >>>>>>>> brought them over to North America?
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> There were none of those things.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> We don't think of it that way, but it was still the
>> > >>>>>>> Stone Age in
>> > >>>>>>> pre-Columbian North America. Pre-Columbian Indians (or
>> > >>>>>>> whatever's the
>> > >>>>>>> correct term this week) had some limited use of
>> > >>>>>>> copper, but typically
>> > >>>>>>> their tools were stone, not (say) bronze. They
>> > >>>>>>> certainly had no iron or
>> > >>>>>>> steel. Also no wheels, etc. However, there were
>> > >>>>>>> societies and trading
>> > >>>>>>> systems that were advanced in other ways.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Jared Diamond's book "Guns, Germs and Steel" is well
>> > >>>>>>> worth reading.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> Indeed!
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> Is this the book that the PBS series was based upon that
>> > >>>>> claimed the
>> > >>>>> Columbus purposely infected the New World with old world
>> > >>>>> diseases?
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>> Been a long time since I read the book, but I don’t
>> > >>>> recall purposely, after
>> > >>>> all they didn’t know what caused infection at that point
>> > >>>
>> > >>> They didn't know what caused it but they know about
>> > >>> "contagion" from before the 14th Century. But it would
>> > >>> have been ridiculous for anyone to believe that a disease
>> > >>> that did not show on people could infect others that had
>> > >>> never been exposed to it.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So the problem wasn't that Columbus or any of his crew did
>> > >>> this or that but that the Woke people claimed it so.
>> > >>
>> > >> Please give a direct quote of a reputable historic source
>> > >> that says what you claimed.
>> > >>
>> > >> Or to be more blunt: Stop arguing against what you wish
>> > >> people said. Pay attention to what they've actually said.
>> > >> Take notes so you can tell the difference, because your
>> > >> "memory" isn't working.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > A University if not The University at Columbus Ohio.
>> > >
>> > > https://u.osu.edu/posterchildchristophercolumbus/villain-columbus/
>> > >
>> > > Under the heading 'Villain Columbus' we read, "Thousands of
>> > > them were killed either by disease, by overworking or by the
>> > > hands of Columbus and his men."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > Indeed, but realistically the disease isn’t deliberate, and frankly sins of
>> > your father only go so far.
>> >
>> > Roger Merriman
>> How about when the British gave blankets from smallpox wards to the natives?
>
>Since the germ theory of pathogens was discovered 1860-1864 by Louis Pasteur exactly when were these blankets handed out and could it have been possible that they were washed first which would have rendered them safe?

There seems to be no evidence that blankets were actually given out,
at least by anyone in authority. But the chap that suggested it, Sir
Jeffery Amherst, died in 1797.
--
Cheers,

John B.