Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:51:50 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:24:20 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 12:18:28 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 01:44:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2023 3:27 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I moved from properly setup cantilever brakes to V-brakes for use in the
>>>>>>>>>>> snow as I found on a test ride with another bike that the V-brakes have a
>>>>>>>>>>> LOT more stopping power in snow. I found that to be true on my bike after
>>>>>>>>>>> I went from cantilevers to V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From memory assuming all being equal I?d say V brakes where just about top
>>>>>>>>>> of rim brakes pile (cable) though I?ve not used the latest direct mount
>>>>>>>>>> dual pivots which are apparently very good!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MTB cantilevers where for the capabilities of the bike even then on the
>>>>>>>>>> weak side, though nothing like as bad as on the cross bike I had for few
>>>>>>>>>> years which was woeful!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd love to have an actual Mechanical Engineering discussion on the
>>>>>>>>> differences between various types of rim brakes. I say that because they
>>>>>>>>> are pretty simple systems, comprised mostly of simple levers; or in the
>>>>>>>>> case of dual pivots, simple linkages. They should be easy to analyze.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the fundamental principles come down to something like force times
>>>>>>>>> distance input (at the lever) equals force times distance output (at the
>>>>>>>>> brake pad). IOW, for a given model, brake force is some ratio or
>>>>>>>>> constant multiplying the lever force. While specific models of brakes
>>>>>>>>> may have different ratios between lever force and brake force, ISTM that
>>>>>>>>> most styles of brakes can be designed with a wide variety of ratios. For
>>>>>>>>> example, cantis _can_ be designed to give more brake force than V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thus the differences between brake types must come down to secondary
>>>>>>>>> effects - perhaps flexibility or friction in certain parts of the
>>>>>>>>> system, perhaps problems with setup.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, an actual engineering discussion would be interesting. Once upon
>>>>>>>>> a time, that was possible here.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quite apart from Usenet well Usenet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The date at which development has stopped or at rather flat lined is fairly
>>>>>>>> broad V brakes has been on relatively cheap MTB/hybrids for what this
>>>>>>>> century? Dual pivots well moved to direct mount 2/3 years ago? CX
>>>>>>>> cantilever maybe 5 years?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cable disks about 10 years realistically though some independent stuff
>>>>>>>> still happening. Hence same models being used even now, ie such Avid BB7 on
>>>>>>>> the Cattrikes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The two BB7s on my two 406 wheels give me more stopping than I need. I
>>>>>>> set mine so that the lever pull bottoms out before the calipers lock
>>>>>>> up the wheels at more than a few MPH. Even then I can easily lift the
>>>>>>> rear wheel off the ground. I read horror stories of trike riders
>>>>>>> flipping themselves up and onto their faces in a panic stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> My gravel bike had similar designed but (Trektro) single piston brakes, for
>>>>>> my uses they lacked power, I did also try a more expensive two piston
>>>>>> design mildly better.
>>>>>
>>>>> The larger the wheel the more power is required to stop it. The Avids
>>>>> are a single piston design but I've heard of people locking up the 20
>>>>> inch wheels at 20+ MPH. Any more stopping power would be dangerous. I
>>>>> also use metallic pads because they are less grabby. They also last
>>>>> longer.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Both also didn?t cope well with mud getting into the system and trashing
>>>>>> the callipers not helped by in such conditions needing to adjust as the
>>>>>> pads wore down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hence going to hydraulic as for myself much better fit, in that they have
>>>>>> the power and being sealed mud can?t get in so simple hose off and that?s
>>>>>> it, and it self adjusts. Much reduced wear rate as well possibly due to
>>>>>> finned pads?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I can see that for your uses any advantages are reduced and as home
>>>>>> mechanic bleeding even if it?s every few years is a pain, it?s one of the
>>>>>> jobs I don?t have space/tools etc for so take it to the bike shop 5mins
>>>>>> away.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> Changing the pads on the Catrike is a pain in the ass. I have to
>>>>> loosen the caliper mounting bolts to get at the pads, and since the
>>>>> left caliper is installed upside down, I completely remove the caliper
>>>>> instead of turning the Catrike upside down or on its side.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have plans for a work rack that Rotisseries the Catrike upside down.
>>>>> It uses the bike's axle locations for attachment points and is
>>>>> adjustable for various sized trikes. It also has U shaped pads like on
>>>>> my current rack for holding the bike upright with the wheels on. My
>>>>> wife says I should patent it and sell them. It's one of those things I
>>>>> never got around to doing. I don't even have welding equipment any
>>>>> more.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That?s a bit of design flaw really! Considering the size of such trikes
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> They do it to cars...
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/2e4jpwny
>>>
>>> Here's my current workstand with my wife's Catrike Pocket on the
>>> bottom and my old Expedition frame stripped down and about to be sent
>>> back to the factory.
>>>
>>> https://tinyurl.com/49pnve4f
>>>
>>> The Rotisserie would have to be steel or aluminum.
>>>
>> Neat tool though I think, the callipers in a location that the pads can be
>> easily pulled out and swapped out as it should be a 5 min while you make a
>> cup of tea job.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> The right side, not the left one as I said above, is mounted upside
> down, and on both of them, the mounting caliper has to be loosened and
> tipped out to get at the pads. Then I have to realign the calipers to
> the disk. Typically, takes me about an hour.
>
That is tedious hopefully your use ie the trails means the pads last a fair
old while! Looking on Strava my old MTB is approaching the point that the
pads should be worn or close too!

Though it had a upgrade last year or rather hand me down when the Trance
had a upgrade so I’ve not yet changed its pads for this set in this useage
ie commuting even if gravely. But certainly less demanding than MTBing.

Roger Merriman