On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:05:09 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
<roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:51:50 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:24:20 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 12:18:28 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 01:44:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2023 3:27 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I moved from properly setup cantilever brakes to V-brakes for use in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> snow as I found on a test ride with another bike that the V-brakes have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> LOT more stopping power in snow. I found that to be true on my bike after
>>>>>>>>>>>> I went from cantilevers to V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From memory assuming all being equal I?d say V brakes where just about top
>>>>>>>>>>> of rim brakes pile (cable) though I?ve not used the latest direct mount
>>>>>>>>>>> dual pivots which are apparently very good!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MTB cantilevers where for the capabilities of the bike even then on the
>>>>>>>>>>> weak side, though nothing like as bad as on the cross bike I had for few
>>>>>>>>>>> years which was woeful!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to have an actual Mechanical Engineering discussion on the
>>>>>>>>>> differences between various types of rim brakes. I say that because they
>>>>>>>>>> are pretty simple systems, comprised mostly of simple levers; or in the
>>>>>>>>>> case of dual pivots, simple linkages. They should be easy to analyze.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the fundamental principles come down to something like force times
>>>>>>>>>> distance input (at the lever) equals force times distance output (at the
>>>>>>>>>> brake pad). IOW, for a given model, brake force is some ratio or
>>>>>>>>>> constant multiplying the lever force. While specific models of brakes
>>>>>>>>>> may have different ratios between lever force and brake force, ISTM that
>>>>>>>>>> most styles of brakes can be designed with a wide variety of ratios. For
>>>>>>>>>> example, cantis _can_ be designed to give more brake force than V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thus the differences between brake types must come down to secondary
>>>>>>>>>> effects - perhaps flexibility or friction in certain parts of the
>>>>>>>>>> system, perhaps problems with setup.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Again, an actual engineering discussion would be interesting. Once upon
>>>>>>>>>> a time, that was possible here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Quite apart from Usenet well Usenet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The date at which development has stopped or at rather flat lined is fairly
>>>>>>>>> broad V brakes has been on relatively cheap MTB/hybrids for what this
>>>>>>>>> century? Dual pivots well moved to direct mount 2/3 years ago? CX
>>>>>>>>> cantilever maybe 5 years?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cable disks about 10 years realistically though some independent stuff
>>>>>>>>> still happening. Hence same models being used even now, ie such Avid BB7 on
>>>>>>>>> the Cattrikes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The two BB7s on my two 406 wheels give me more stopping than I need. I
>>>>>>>> set mine so that the lever pull bottoms out before the calipers lock
>>>>>>>> up the wheels at more than a few MPH. Even then I can easily lift the
>>>>>>>> rear wheel off the ground. I read horror stories of trike riders
>>>>>>>> flipping themselves up and onto their faces in a panic stop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My gravel bike had similar designed but (Trektro) single piston brakes, for
>>>>>>> my uses they lacked power, I did also try a more expensive two piston
>>>>>>> design mildly better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The larger the wheel the more power is required to stop it. The Avids
>>>>>> are a single piston design but I've heard of people locking up the 20
>>>>>> inch wheels at 20+ MPH. Any more stopping power would be dangerous. I
>>>>>> also use metallic pads because they are less grabby. They also last
>>>>>> longer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both also didn?t cope well with mud getting into the system and trashing
>>>>>>> the callipers not helped by in such conditions needing to adjust as the
>>>>>>> pads wore down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hence going to hydraulic as for myself much better fit, in that they have
>>>>>>> the power and being sealed mud can?t get in so simple hose off and that?s
>>>>>>> it, and it self adjusts. Much reduced wear rate as well possibly due to
>>>>>>> finned pads?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I can see that for your uses any advantages are reduced and as home
>>>>>>> mechanic bleeding even if it?s every few years is a pain, it?s one of the
>>>>>>> jobs I don?t have space/tools etc for so take it to the bike shop 5mins
>>>>>>> away.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Changing the pads on the Catrike is a pain in the ass. I have to
>>>>>> loosen the caliper mounting bolts to get at the pads, and since the
>>>>>> left caliper is installed upside down, I completely remove the caliper
>>>>>> instead of turning the Catrike upside down or on its side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have plans for a work rack that Rotisseries the Catrike upside down.
>>>>>> It uses the bike's axle locations for attachment points and is
>>>>>> adjustable for various sized trikes. It also has U shaped pads like on
>>>>>> my current rack for holding the bike upright with the wheels on. My
>>>>>> wife says I should patent it and sell them. It's one of those things I
>>>>>> never got around to doing. I don't even have welding equipment any
>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That?s a bit of design flaw really! Considering the size of such trikes
>>>>> etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>
>>>> They do it to cars...
>>>>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2e4jpwny
>>>>
>>>> Here's my current workstand with my wife's Catrike Pocket on the
>>>> bottom and my old Expedition frame stripped down and about to be sent
>>>> back to the factory.
>>>>
>>>> https://tinyurl.com/49pnve4f
>>>>
>>>> The Rotisserie would have to be steel or aluminum.
>>>>
>>> Neat tool though I think, the callipers in a location that the pads can be
>>> easily pulled out and swapped out as it should be a 5 min while you make a
>>> cup of tea job.
>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> The right side, not the left one as I said above, is mounted upside
>> down, and on both of them, the mounting caliper has to be loosened and
>> tipped out to get at the pads. Then I have to realign the calipers to
>> the disk. Typically, takes me about an hour.
>>
>That is tedious hopefully your use ie the trails means the pads last a fair
>old while! Looking on Strava my old MTB is approaching the point that the
>pads should be worn or close too!
>
>Though it had a upgrade last year or rather hand me down when the Trance
>had a upgrade so I’ve not yet changed its pads for this set in this useage
>ie commuting even if gravely. But certainly less demanding than MTBing.
>
>Roger Merriman

Tedious, perhaps, but one of my joys is working on the bikes. My wife
calls it fiddling with the bikes. I'm always looking for something
that needs to be done... make that something that needs to be done
with the bikes, not painting or re-arranging furniture....