Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 11:05:09 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:51:50 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 23:24:20 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 12:18:28 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Catrike Rider <soloman@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 01:44:26 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>> <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/28/2023 3:27 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pathic@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I moved from properly setup cantilever brakes to V-brakes for use in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> snow as I found on a test ride with another bike that the V-brakes have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOT more stopping power in snow. I found that to be true on my bike after
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went from cantilevers to V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From memory assuming all being equal I?d say V brakes where just about top
>>>>>>>>>>>> of rim brakes pile (cable) though I?ve not used the latest direct mount
>>>>>>>>>>>> dual pivots which are apparently very good!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> MTB cantilevers where for the capabilities of the bike even then on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> weak side, though nothing like as bad as on the cross bike I had for few
>>>>>>>>>>>> years which was woeful!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to have an actual Mechanical Engineering discussion on the
>>>>>>>>>>> differences between various types of rim brakes. I say that because they
>>>>>>>>>>> are pretty simple systems, comprised mostly of simple levers; or in the
>>>>>>>>>>> case of dual pivots, simple linkages. They should be easy to analyze.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the fundamental principles come down to something like force times
>>>>>>>>>>> distance input (at the lever) equals force times distance output (at the
>>>>>>>>>>> brake pad). IOW, for a given model, brake force is some ratio or
>>>>>>>>>>> constant multiplying the lever force. While specific models of brakes
>>>>>>>>>>> may have different ratios between lever force and brake force, ISTM that
>>>>>>>>>>> most styles of brakes can be designed with a wide variety of ratios. For
>>>>>>>>>>> example, cantis _can_ be designed to give more brake force than V-brakes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thus the differences between brake types must come down to secondary
>>>>>>>>>>> effects - perhaps flexibility or friction in certain parts of the
>>>>>>>>>>> system, perhaps problems with setup.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Again, an actual engineering discussion would be interesting. Once upon
>>>>>>>>>>> a time, that was possible here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Quite apart from Usenet well Usenet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The date at which development has stopped or at rather flat lined is fairly
>>>>>>>>>> broad V brakes has been on relatively cheap MTB/hybrids for what this
>>>>>>>>>> century? Dual pivots well moved to direct mount 2/3 years ago? CX
>>>>>>>>>> cantilever maybe 5 years?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cable disks about 10 years realistically though some independent stuff
>>>>>>>>>> still happening. Hence same models being used even now, ie such Avid BB7 on
>>>>>>>>>> the Cattrikes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The two BB7s on my two 406 wheels give me more stopping than I need. I
>>>>>>>>> set mine so that the lever pull bottoms out before the calipers lock
>>>>>>>>> up the wheels at more than a few MPH. Even then I can easily lift the
>>>>>>>>> rear wheel off the ground. I read horror stories of trike riders
>>>>>>>>> flipping themselves up and onto their faces in a panic stop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My gravel bike had similar designed but (Trektro) single piston brakes, for
>>>>>>>> my uses they lacked power, I did also try a more expensive two piston
>>>>>>>> design mildly better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The larger the wheel the more power is required to stop it. The Avids
>>>>>>> are a single piston design but I've heard of people locking up the 20
>>>>>>> inch wheels at 20+ MPH. Any more stopping power would be dangerous. I
>>>>>>> also use metallic pads because they are less grabby. They also last
>>>>>>> longer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both also didn?t cope well with mud getting into the system and trashing
>>>>>>>> the callipers not helped by in such conditions needing to adjust as the
>>>>>>>> pads wore down.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hence going to hydraulic as for myself much better fit, in that they have
>>>>>>>> the power and being sealed mud can?t get in so simple hose off and that?s
>>>>>>>> it, and it self adjusts. Much reduced wear rate as well possibly due to
>>>>>>>> finned pads?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I can see that for your uses any advantages are reduced and as home
>>>>>>>> mechanic bleeding even if it?s every few years is a pain, it?s one of the
>>>>>>>> jobs I don?t have space/tools etc for so take it to the bike shop 5mins
>>>>>>>> away.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Changing the pads on the Catrike is a pain in the ass. I have to
>>>>>>> loosen the caliper mounting bolts to get at the pads, and since the
>>>>>>> left caliper is installed upside down, I completely remove the caliper
>>>>>>> instead of turning the Catrike upside down or on its side.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have plans for a work rack that Rotisseries the Catrike upside down.
>>>>>>> It uses the bike's axle locations for attachment points and is
>>>>>>> adjustable for various sized trikes. It also has U shaped pads like on
>>>>>>> my current rack for holding the bike upright with the wheels on. My
>>>>>>> wife says I should patent it and sell them. It's one of those things I
>>>>>>> never got around to doing. I don't even have welding equipment any
>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That?s a bit of design flaw really! Considering the size of such trikes
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>
>>>>> They do it to cars...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/2e4jpwny
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my current workstand with my wife's Catrike Pocket on the
>>>>> bottom and my old Expedition frame stripped down and about to be sent
>>>>> back to the factory.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://tinyurl.com/49pnve4f
>>>>>
>>>>> The Rotisserie would have to be steel or aluminum.
>>>>>
>>>> Neat tool though I think, the callipers in a location that the pads can be
>>>> easily pulled out and swapped out as it should be a 5 min while you make a
>>>> cup of tea job.
>>>>
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>
>>> The right side, not the left one as I said above, is mounted upside
>>> down, and on both of them, the mounting caliper has to be loosened and
>>> tipped out to get at the pads. Then I have to realign the calipers to
>>> the disk. Typically, takes me about an hour.
>>>
>> That is tedious hopefully your use ie the trails means the pads last a fair
>> old while! Looking on Strava my old MTB is approaching the point that the
>> pads should be worn or close too!
>>
>> Though it had a upgrade last year or rather hand me down when the Trance
>> had a upgrade so I’ve not yet changed its pads for this set in this useage
>> ie commuting even if gravely. But certainly less demanding than MTBing.
>>
>> Roger Merriman
>
> Tedious, perhaps, but one of my joys is working on the bikes. My wife
> calls it fiddling with the bikes. I'm always looking for something
> that needs to be done... make that something that needs to be done
> with the bikes, not painting or re-arranging furniture....
>
Ah fair enough!

Roger Merriman