On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 11:44:51 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> On 30/03/2022 17:11, Rickster wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 30, 2022 at 2:39:25 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >> On 29/03/2022 22:22, Rickster wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 29, 2022 at 3:35:04 PM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
> >>>> On 29/03/2022 19:50, Rickster wrote:
> >>>>> This post has two parts, maybe two solutions to one problem. The
> >>>>> problem is lots of electric surges that fry various electronics.
> >>>>> One solution is using an outlet strip so power is removed when
> >>>>> not in use. But people often forget to turn it off, so stuff
> >>>>> eventually gets fried. To resolve this an egg timer type switch
> >>>>> could be used, but I can't find one inline. There's no place to
> >>>>> mount one in the wall. Of course, a wall mounted unit could be
> >>>>> put in a box with cables, but it's not terribly attractive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other solution would be to add a proper surge protector that
> >>>>> will actually arrest the surge and prevent damage to the
> >>>>> appliances. I know the little outlet strips are pretty much
> >>>>> worthless. I'm wondering what is required to actually prevent
> >>>>> damage to appliances. Of course that depends on the surge, but
> >>>>> what is typically used to protect computer equipment where the
> >>>>> value is less than say, $5,000?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I must be missing something.
> >>>
> >>> I agree with that.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Surge protector socket adaptors or outlet strips are common and
> >>>> cheap.
> >>>
> >>> I don't agree with that.
> >> I had a quick look at the equivalent of "Home Depot" here in Norway. I
> >> found dozens, with prices of about $10 upwards.
> >>
> >> I don't know
> >
> > Yes, that's my point. You can call these "surge protectors", but they have no rating and even if they have a rating, there's no reason to believe any numbers you read. They are worthless junk and are not surge protectors.
> >
> >
> >> the ratings or how big surges they protect against. We
> >> have extremely stable and reliable power in Norway, and I guess they
> >> sell devices aimed at the local market rather than for places with more
> >> variable power. Lightning is probably the main cause of surges here, so
> >> they will be designed to protect against that.
> >
> > No, they are designed to make a profit. There is zero accountability for their "surge protector" claims, so they use the cheapest, most minimal components that will not protect anything. Lightning is the hardest surge to protect against as it has a hugely wide range of surge. I used to repair burglar alarms and one system had developed opens in the perimeter loop every place where the wire went through the same hole drilled in the joist as the AC wiring. There was enough voltage that an arc passed through both insulations and enough current to melt the perimeter wire in two forming little balls on the ends of the broken wires. The panel was fried of course. Any surge protector you can buy for $5 would have been destroyed and not protected equipment against damage.
> >
> > With no real way to compare surge protectors and no knowledge of what rating is required, the best bet is to disconnect the appliance.
> >
> >
> OK, so you want a surge protector but you won't buy anything called a
> "surge protector" because they are all useless.

You said, $10. That's not a surge protector. That's an outlet strip regardless of what moniker they put on it.

> >>> Most "surge" protectors are nearly
> >>> worthless, such as the one the microwave was plugged into when it
> >>> stopped working. It was a bit funny, in that it came on and I
> >>> started warming up something that didn't get warm. After a few tries
> >>> of resetting and unplugging for a bit, it still didn't cook, but
> >>> started to give an error code after a bit. Now it gives the error
> >>> code as soon as you start it cooking. H98 means a problem in the
> >>> power supply.
> >>>
> >> Your microwave broke. It happens. We have no idea if it was a
> >> dried-out capacitor, a worn out part, a manufacturing fault, or anything
> >> else, where a power surge might have been the last straw. But okay,
> >> based on your microwave you want a surge protector but not the surge
> >> protector that you had on the microwave. Yes, I think we are all
> >> missing something here - your secret specifications.
> >
> > Sometimes it is very hard to discuss things with you because you ignore so much of what is provided. There is decades of history behind this. You are in no position to argue that cap dried up in an 8 month old microwave. Please just stop posting silly ideas and assuming others know nothing, such as the idea that you can buy "surge protectors" that are worth anything for just $10. They are not surge protectors, they are outlet strips.
> >
> You told us your microwave broke. You didn't say it was 8 months old,
> or that you have "decades of history" (whatever that might mean). You
> said it broke, and you gave /zero/ information about why you leapt to
> the conclusion that it was a worthless surge protector. And /I/ am the
> one being difficult for asking questions!

I don't know why you would assume the OP is an idiot and knows nothing about "surge protectors" that have been around for decades, posing as useful equipment, but actually being pretty much worthless. Because such surge events are normally very sporadic, people can buy them and think that their equipment has been protected for the last 10 years. In reality, there simply have been no surges that would damage the equipment in the first place.

> >>>> So are socket adaptors with timers. I didn't find any that did both
> >>>> in my brief search, but combining them would not be hard.
> >>>
> >>> I've found no socket adapters that use a mechanical timer. Why add
> >>> electronics that is overkill, harder to use and prone to the failure
> >>> I'm trying to protect against? A simple mechanical egg type timer is
> >>> the perfect solution, just not in the appropriate form factor.
> >>>
> >> Why use a mechanical timer when an electronic one will work? (And the
> >> egg timer I have is a little "hour glass" with falling sand - good luck
> >> integrating that technology with a socket!). Go to your Home Depot, or
> >> whatever, and buy a timer socket that supports the range you need.
> >> Problem solved.
> >
> > Ok, I think we are done here. If you don't even know what sort of mechanical timer I'm talking about, you must live in a cave. Didn't I post links?
> >
> You posted one link (as far as I noticed) to a mechanical timer. You've
> given no clear indication as to why you want it to be /mechanical/.

I didn't think it was required to point out that an electronic timer would be subject to the same surges the electronic equipment is to be protected from. Isn't that very obvious??? If you saw the link to the mechanical timer, what is then unclear? I even explained why the electronic timer is less desirable, but you seem to have ignored that content.

> >>>> Computer equipment of significant value is usually connected to a
> >>>> UPS, which will have surge protection.
> >>>
> >>> Ok, lower the value to $1,000 then. We are talking about house hold
> >>> appliances, TV, microwave,...
> >> Microwaves may be essential appliances for computer users, but I've
> >> never heard them considered "computer equipment".
> >>
> >> People use UPS's for computers because they don't like random shutdowns.
> >> If you live in an area that experiences a lot of lightning or other
> >> power surges, a surge protector on your expensive TV might be a good idea.
> >>> I was told even the refrigerator has
> >>> crapped out and blamed on surges. I know there are power issues
> >>> here, so I'm not going to argue with anyone they are wrong about the
> >>> cause. I'm trying to help, not argue with them.
> >
> > Yes, we are done here.
> >
> We are seeing the usual pattern for your posts looking for information
> or help. You give a fraction of the information people might find
> useful, with little detail and even less idea about why you want one
> solution and reject others. Then you jump and people who try to help,
> and argue with them or insult them for failing to read your mind.

I'm not jumping you, I'm explaining that your assumptions are obvious mistakes. Why do you not understand that an electronic timer would suffer the same damage as the electronic equipment being protected? Why do you insist on arguing about it when I tell you it needs to be mechanical?

You, in particular, have a tendency to go off in strange directions, and make unreasonable assumptions. Like assuming I wanted to protect computer equipment when my OP said, "various electronics" and "appliances". I only mentioned computer equipment when I asked about typical protection because I've never met anyone who protected a microwave while computers are often protected.

> It's a good job posters in this group either have memories like
> goldfish, or an obsessive need to try to help people, or you'd get no
> replies at all.

Ok, sorry to have bothered you, but at least you must have found this entertaining or you would not have posted so many times.

--

Rick C.

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