Aadaab:
Who do you think could be considered the all-time top four Urdu poets - not in any order?
I don't have any opinion myself because I have not read them in depth.
Best wishes.
Khalid

Khalid sahib,

aadaab,

Just like you, I am also not claiming that I have read all Urdu poets in depth. I am trying to answer your question objectively, without being influenced by my personal biases. If I had to make a list of my own favorite top four, it will definitely include some different names.

Here is my list, in no particular order. The all time top three names came to my mind right away:

Ghalib, Iqbal, Faiz.

The fourth one I had to think about, and I will go with:

Daagh.

I am very curious about your friend Dr Maqbool's answer to this question. Will you please share his list with us?

Thank you.

________Zoya

On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 5:09:37 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> Khalid sahib,
>
> aadaab,
>
> Just like you, I am also not claiming that I have read all Urdu poets in depth. I am trying to answer your question objectively, without being influenced by my personal biases. If I had to make a list of my own favorite top four, it will definitely include some different names.
>
> Here is my list, in no particular order. The all time top three names came to my mind right away:
>
> Ghalib, Iqbal, Faiz.
>
> The fourth one I had to think about, and I will go with:
>
> Daagh.
>
> I am very curious about your friend Dr Maqbool's answer to this question. Will you please share his list with us?
>
> Thank you.
>
> ________Zoya
Aadaab.
Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:

> Aadaab.
> Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.

I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names.. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.

Regards,

________Zoya

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
>
> > Aadaab.
> > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
>
> I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
>
> Regards,
>
> ________Zoya
Aadaab:
I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:

A Team:
Ghalib
Mir
Iqbal
Sauda
Dard
Aatish
Momin
Mashafi
Mir Anis
Nazeer Akbarabadi
Dagh
Bahadur Shah Zafar

B Team:
Zauq
Vali
Siraj Aurangabadi
Shaifta
Akbar Allahabadi
Shah Naseer
Asghar Gondvi
Fani Badayuni
Hasrat Mohani
Shad Azimabadi
Jigar Muradabadi
Firaq Gorakhpuri

Best wishes.
Khalid

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> >
> > > Aadaab.
> > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> >
> > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ________Zoya
> Aadaab:
> I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
>
> A Team:
> Ghalib
> Mir
> Iqbal
> Sauda
> Dard
> Aatish
> Momin
> Mashafi
> Mir Anis
> Nazeer Akbarabadi
> Dagh
> Bahadur Shah Zafar
>
> B Team:
> Zauq
> Vali
> Siraj Aurangabadi
> Shaifta
> Akbar Allahabadi
> Shah Naseer
> Asghar Gondvi
> Fani Badayuni
> Hasrat Mohani
> Shad Azimabadi
> Jigar Muradabadi
> Firaq Gorakhpuri
>
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

Khalid sahib,

aadaab,

Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.

The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.

Thanks,

_________Zoya

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > >
> > > > Aadaab.
> > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > >
> > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > ________Zoya
> > Aadaab:
> > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> >
> > A Team:
> > Ghalib
> > Mir
> > Iqbal
> > Sauda
> > Dard
> > Aatish
> > Momin
> > Mashafi
> > Mir Anis
> > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > Dagh
> > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> >
> > B Team:
> > Zauq
> > Vali
> > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > Shaifta
> > Akbar Allahabadi
> > Shah Naseer
> > Asghar Gondvi
> > Fani Badayuni
> > Hasrat Mohani
> > Shad Azimabadi
> > Jigar Muradabadi
> > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> >
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> Khalid sahib,
>
> aadaab,
>
> Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
>
> The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
>
> Thanks,
>
> _________Zoya
Aadaab:
I did speak with Sohail.
Few comments:
1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp.. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:35:55 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > Khalid
> > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > >
> > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > ________Zoya
> > > Aadaab:
> > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > >
> > > A Team:
> > > Ghalib
> > > Mir
> > > Iqbal
> > > Sauda
> > > Dard
> > > Aatish
> > > Momin
> > > Mashafi
> > > Mir Anis
> > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > Dagh
> > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > >
> > > B Team:
> > > Zauq
> > > Vali
> > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > Shaifta
> > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > Shah Naseer
> > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > Fani Badayuni
> > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > >
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > Khalid sahib,
> >
> > aadaab,
> >
> > Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
> >
> > The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > _________Zoya
> Aadaab:
> I did speak with Sohail.
> Few comments:
> 1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B.. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
> 2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
> 3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
> 4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
> 5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

Khalid sahib,

aadaab,

Thank you so much for the detailed response, and also for providing Dr Maqbool's contact number. I will save it and definitely reach out to him. It is dreamland for me, listening to someone like him talk about Urdu poetry, sounds just wonderful! And, I am in the same time zone as him, so just perfect.

One thing I want to document here is that if his lists are based mainly on ghazal writing, then Firaq definitely belongs in list A. I know RK sahib will surely agree with me on that.

When I talk to Dr Maqbool, I'm definitely going to bring up Faiz, and while at it, Nasir Kazmi, Jaun Eliya and maybe even Shikeb Jalali. Exciting stuff! :-)

Regards,

_______Zoya

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:51:36 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:35:55 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > ________Zoya
> > > > Aadaab:
> > > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > > >
> > > > A Team:
> > > > Ghalib
> > > > Mir
> > > > Iqbal
> > > > Sauda
> > > > Dard
> > > > Aatish
> > > > Momin
> > > > Mashafi
> > > > Mir Anis
> > > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > > Dagh
> > > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > > >
> > > > B Team:
> > > > Zauq
> > > > Vali
> > > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > > Shaifta
> > > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > > Shah Naseer
> > > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > > Fani Badayuni
> > > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > Khalid sahib,
> > >
> > > aadaab,
> > >
> > > Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
> > >
> > > The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > _________Zoya
> > Aadaab:
> > I did speak with Sohail.
> > Few comments:
> > 1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
> > 2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
> > 3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
> > 4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
> > 5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> Khalid sahib,
>
> aadaab,
>
> Thank you so much for the detailed response, and also for providing Dr Maqbool's contact number. I will save it and definitely reach out to him. It is dreamland for me, listening to someone like him talk about Urdu poetry, sounds just wonderful! And, I am in the same time zone as him, so just perfect.
>
> One thing I want to document here is that if his lists are based mainly on ghazal writing, then Firaq definitely belongs in list A. I know RK sahib will surely agree with me on that.
>
> When I talk to Dr Maqbool, I'm definitely going to bring up Faiz, and while at it, Nasir Kazmi, Jaun Eliya and maybe even Shikeb Jalali. Exciting stuff! :-)
>
> Regards,
>
> _______Zoya
Aadaab:
I didn't know that. I thought that you were in India. In that case you
could call me too at 419 680 6240. I am in the Eastern Time Zone.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:48:48 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:51:36 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:35:55 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ________Zoya
> > > > > Aadaab:
> > > > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > > > >
> > > > > A Team:
> > > > > Ghalib
> > > > > Mir
> > > > > Iqbal
> > > > > Sauda
> > > > > Dard
> > > > > Aatish
> > > > > Momin
> > > > > Mashafi
> > > > > Mir Anis
> > > > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > > > Dagh
> > > > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > > > >
> > > > > B Team:
> > > > > Zauq
> > > > > Vali
> > > > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > > > Shaifta
> > > > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > > > Shah Naseer
> > > > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > > > Fani Badayuni
> > > > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > > > >
> > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > Khalid
> > > > Khalid sahib,
> > > >
> > > > aadaab,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
> > > >
> > > > The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > _________Zoya
> > > Aadaab:
> > > I did speak with Sohail.
> > > Few comments:
> > > 1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
> > > 2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
> > > 3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
> > > 4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
> > > 5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > Khalid sahib,
> >
> > aadaab,
> >
> > Thank you so much for the detailed response, and also for providing Dr Maqbool's contact number. I will save it and definitely reach out to him. It is dreamland for me, listening to someone like him talk about Urdu poetry, sounds just wonderful! And, I am in the same time zone as him, so just perfect.
> >
> > One thing I want to document here is that if his lists are based mainly on ghazal writing, then Firaq definitely belongs in list A. I know RK sahib will surely agree with me on that.
> >
> > When I talk to Dr Maqbool, I'm definitely going to bring up Faiz, and while at it, Nasir Kazmi, Jaun Eliya and maybe even Shikeb Jalali. Exciting stuff! :-)
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > _______Zoya
> Aadaab:
> I didn't know that. I thought that you were in India. In that case you
> could call me too at 419 680 6240. I am in the Eastern Time Zone.
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

Thanks again, Khalid sahib.

I spent my childhood and teen years in Ludhiana and Chandigarh, but have lived in US all of my adult life. I still have very strong ties with India because my dad (mom passed away a year ago), and both siblings still live there.

Urdu is my first love but actually my fourth language after Hindi, Punjabi and English. Urdu poetry has been my passion since childhood, I learned the script from my dad and talaffuz by listening to All India Radio's Urdu service.

Alup has been one of the biggest blessings in my life. Over the years, my love for Urdu poetry has been been nurtured and my skills refined in this group, by Sarwar Alam Raz sahib, Raj Kumar Qais sahib, Irfan Abid sahib and Zafar Syed sahib. My life has been so much richer because of these generous gentlemen, and I'll be forever grateful to all of them.

I'll be in touch.

Regards,

_________Zoya

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:18:44 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:48:48 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:51:36 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:35:55 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________Zoya
> > > > > > Aadaab:
> > > > > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A Team:
> > > > > > Ghalib
> > > > > > Mir
> > > > > > Iqbal
> > > > > > Sauda
> > > > > > Dard
> > > > > > Aatish
> > > > > > Momin
> > > > > > Mashafi
> > > > > > Mir Anis
> > > > > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > > > > Dagh
> > > > > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > > > > >
> > > > > > B Team:
> > > > > > Zauq
> > > > > > Vali
> > > > > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > > > > Shaifta
> > > > > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > > > > Shah Naseer
> > > > > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > > > > Fani Badayuni
> > > > > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > > > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > > > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > > > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > Khalid sahib,
> > > > >
> > > > > aadaab,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
> > > > >
> > > > > The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > _________Zoya
> > > > Aadaab:
> > > > I did speak with Sohail.
> > > > Few comments:
> > > > 1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
> > > > 2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
> > > > 3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
> > > > 4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820.. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
> > > > 5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > Khalid sahib,
> > >
> > > aadaab,
> > >
> > > Thank you so much for the detailed response, and also for providing Dr Maqbool's contact number. I will save it and definitely reach out to him. It is dreamland for me, listening to someone like him talk about Urdu poetry, sounds just wonderful! And, I am in the same time zone as him, so just perfect.
> > >
> > > One thing I want to document here is that if his lists are based mainly on ghazal writing, then Firaq definitely belongs in list A. I know RK sahib will surely agree with me on that.
> > >
> > > When I talk to Dr Maqbool, I'm definitely going to bring up Faiz, and while at it, Nasir Kazmi, Jaun Eliya and maybe even Shikeb Jalali. Exciting stuff! :-)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > _______Zoya
> > Aadaab:
> > I didn't know that. I thought that you were in India. In that case you
> > could call me too at 419 680 6240. I am in the Eastern Time Zone.
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> Thanks again, Khalid sahib.
>
> I spent my childhood and teen years in Ludhiana and Chandigarh, but have lived in US all of my adult life. I still have very strong ties with India because my dad (mom passed away a year ago), and both siblings still live there.
>
> Urdu is my first love but actually my fourth language after Hindi, Punjabi and English. Urdu poetry has been my passion since childhood, I learned the script from my dad and talaffuz by listening to All India Radio's Urdu service.
>
> Alup has been one of the biggest blessings in my life. Over the years, my love for Urdu poetry has been been nurtured and my skills refined in this group, by Sarwar Alam Raz sahib, Raj Kumar Qais sahib, Irfan Abid sahib and Zafar Syed sahib. My life has been so much richer because of these generous gentlemen, and I'll be forever grateful to all of them.
>
> I'll be in touch.
>
> Regards,
>
> _________Zoya
Good Zoya Saheba. We will discuss all that once we establish verbal communication.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:18:44 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:48:48 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 1:51:36 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 10:35:55 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, May 25, 2021 at 3:49:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________Zoya
> > > > > > Aadaab:
> > > > > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A Team:
> > > > > > Ghalib
> > > > > > Mir
> > > > > > Iqbal
> > > > > > Sauda
> > > > > > Dard
> > > > > > Aatish
> > > > > > Momin
> > > > > > Mashafi
> > > > > > Mir Anis
> > > > > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > > > > Dagh
> > > > > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > > > > >
> > > > > > B Team:
> > > > > > Zauq
> > > > > > Vali
> > > > > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > > > > Shaifta
> > > > > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > > > > Shah Naseer
> > > > > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > > > > Fani Badayuni
> > > > > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > > > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > > > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > > > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > Khalid sahib,
> > > > >
> > > > > aadaab,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for posting Dr Maqbool's lists. I am assuming the poets in list A are ranked higher than those in B. The names in list A are pretty much as expected, and the rankings seem fair by most standards. However, I'd definitely move Zafar from A to B and swap with Zauq or Firaq.
> > > > >
> > > > > The thing that really surprised me is that Faiz's name is not present in either one of the lists. Will you please ask Dr Maqbool for me, why so? I am genuinely curious about this omission because I truly believe him to be one of all time greats in Urdu poetry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > _________Zoya
> > > > Aadaab:
> > > > I did speak with Sohail.
> > > > Few comments:
> > > > 1. Yes, the two lists are according to the merit - A ranked higher than B. Both the lists are rating the sh3iirs on ghazal-writing only. He doesn't consider Faiz qualified, on merit, to be on either list. He considers Zauq very good as far as 'qasida' is concerned - second only to Sauda, but not that high in ghazal-writing.
> > > > 2. For a good review on Bahadur Shah Zafar's sh3iiri, he recommends a book on the subject by Khawaja Tahawwar Hussain. It is available at the bookstore called Urdu Academy Sind in Urdu Bazar, Karachi. He doesn't know whether it is available in other cities in Pakistan and India or not.
> > > > 3. I and Sohail would be honored to have opinions on those two lists from Raj Kumar Saheb and Naseer Saheb also.
> > > > 4. Sohail does use WhatsApp for telephonic conversations only, but he neither writes anything himself nor reads the stuff that people post on WhatsApp. He is looking forward to speaking with the members of ALUP (specially Zoya Saheba) via WhatsApp. His WhatsApp account number is 314 650 9820.. Spare some time if you call because once he starts then he doesn't look at his watch.
> > > > 5. Sohail feels that there are very few people left like your group who are so passionate about Urdu poetry. He has been highly impressed with whatever I have relayed to him so far. A direct conversation, I feel, will be very healthy. There is 10:30 hours time difference between St. Louis and India.
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > Khalid sahib,
> > >
> > > aadaab,
> > >
> > > Thank you so much for the detailed response, and also for providing Dr Maqbool's contact number. I will save it and definitely reach out to him. It is dreamland for me, listening to someone like him talk about Urdu poetry, sounds just wonderful! And, I am in the same time zone as him, so just perfect.
> > >
> > > One thing I want to document here is that if his lists are based mainly on ghazal writing, then Firaq definitely belongs in list A. I know RK sahib will surely agree with me on that.
> > >
> > > When I talk to Dr Maqbool, I'm definitely going to bring up Faiz, and while at it, Nasir Kazmi, Jaun Eliya and maybe even Shikeb Jalali. Exciting stuff! :-)
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > _______Zoya
> > Aadaab:
> > I didn't know that. I thought that you were in India. In that case you
> > could call me too at 419 680 6240. I am in the Eastern Time Zone.
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> Thanks again, Khalid sahib.
>
> I spent my childhood and teen years in Ludhiana and Chandigarh, but have lived in US all of my adult life. I still have very strong ties with India because my dad (mom passed away a year ago), and both siblings still live there.
>
> Urdu is my first love but actually my fourth language after Hindi, Punjabi and English. Urdu poetry has been my passion since childhood, I learned the script from my dad and talaffuz by listening to All India Radio's Urdu service.
>
> Alup has been one of the biggest blessings in my life. Over the years, my love for Urdu poetry has been been nurtured and my skills refined in this group, by Sarwar Alam Raz sahib, Raj Kumar Qais sahib, Irfan Abid sahib and Zafar Syed sahib. My life has been so much richer because of these generous gentlemen, and I'll be forever grateful to all of them.
>
> I'll be in touch.
>
> Regards,
>
> _________Zoya
Sarwar Alam Raz and Dr. Sohail Maqbool are buddies.
Best wishes.
Khalid

On Thursday, May 27, 2021 at 4:42:21 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:

> Sarwar Alam Raz and Dr. Sohail Maqbool are buddies.
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

Really? That is just wonderful! I just spoke to Sarwar sahib a few minutes ago, right before I read your message. I worry about his health now and try to stay in touch. He has always been very affectionate and kind towards me.. I will definitely mention this next time I talk to him.

Sarwar sahib has promised that he will visit Alup in near future, let us hope and pray that he does.

What a small world! :)

________Zoya

On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 21:49:21 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> >
> > > Aadaab.
> > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> >
> > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > ________Zoya
> Aadaab:
> I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
>
> A Team:
> Ghalib
> Mir
> Iqbal
> Sauda
> Dard
> Aatish
> Momin
> Mashafi
> Mir Anis
> Nazeer Akbarabadi
> Dagh
> Bahadur Shah Zafar
>
> B Team:
> Zauq
> Vali
> Siraj Aurangabadi
> Shaifta
> Akbar Allahabadi
> Shah Naseer
> Asghar Gondvi
> Fani Badayuni
> Hasrat Mohani
> Shad Azimabadi
> Jigar Muradabadi
> Firaq Gorakhpuri
>
> Best wishes.
> Khalid

Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.

Your original question was about top four poets. The above A and B teams are Dr. Maqbool SaaHib's top Ghazal poets. Either way, anyone providing a list of 4 best Urdu poets or best Ghazal poets would need to bear in mind the following.

1. The criteria under which a poet is being judged.

2. To have read the works of all poets from Vali Dakkani down to the modern era.

I don't know how many people have read everything there is of all the Urdu poets but I have read very little of Urdu poetry (or any other poetry for that matter). So, under both counts I would not be qualified to make such a list. I suspect Urdu scholars and critics have read reasonable chunks of most of the poets worth (in their eyes) reading. As far as I know, the critics generally have this order.

1. Miir
2. Ghalib
3. Iqbal

For some reason they don't go beyond 3!:-) I also don't know the criteria these people are using to make their judgement. It seems, some argue that Ghalib is above Miir. I think, short of providing factual evidence for the criteria under discussion, most mortals like us just go by the whim of our heart and like a poet or not. Other times you may like something of one poet but not necessarily everything that s/he has written. So, it is all rather subjective. Please allow me to provide one or two examples.

"Meer Anees, Meer Dard, Nasikh, Momin, Dagh in sab ke yahaaN muzakkar mu'annas, muHaavarah, talaffuz aur ma3nii kii GhalatiyaaN miltii haiN. lekin is ke baa-vujuud vuh mustanad ThahreN aur bichaarah Iqbal jo Anees-o-Meer se kam darjah shaa3ir hargiz nahiiN, sirf is liye paayah-i-i3tibaar se saaqit ho kih us ke yahaaN zabaan kii do-chaar laGhzisheN nazar aatii haiN?" Shamsur Rahman Faruqi

It appears that Faruqi is placing Iqbal at par with Miir and Anis (the last mentioned could be 4th on the critics' list perhaps). On the other hand Professor Gyan Chand Jain has said the following about Iqbal, in his article entitled, "Ghair Muslim rahnumaay-i-diin - Iqbal kii nazar meN"...

"mujhe Hakiim-i-millat 'Allama Iqbal ke nazriyaat se bunyaadii ixtilaaf hai lekin is ke baavujuud maiN do sachchaa'iyoN se inkaar nahiiN kar saktaa. ek yih kih Iqbal Urdu ke sab se baRe shaa3ir haiN. Ghalib se baRe, Miir aur Anis se baRe. duusre yih kih...."So, now the list is

1. Iqbal
2. Miir
3. Ghalib
4. Anis

The situation for 2, 3 and 4 could be in a state of flux or in words it is "fluid":-)

Most of you if not all, will have heard of the renowned scholar of Urdu, Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor (1911-2002), who has many publications to his name. Amongst these is one bearing the name of "Daanishvar Iqbal" and the last chapter is called "Sirf ek kitaab". In this chapter he mentions Maulana Jauhar who, when he was on a journey, was asked which one book he would like to take with him. He chose the Qur'an but when he was pushed to give another choice, he went for "Diivan-i-DaaGh". Niyaz Fathepuri said somewhere that if he had to choose the diivan of just one poet, he would go for Momin.... Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor then goes on to talk about himself.

"mujhe agar hazaaroN kitaaboN meN ek kaa intixaab karnaa ho, samundar meN se ek mauj par tavajjuh markuuz karnii ho, baaGh meN se ek phuul chun_naa ho to maiN "Baal-i-Jibriil" kaa naam luuN gaa.

.....puurii Urdu shaa3irii meN Meer ke muntaxib ash3aar, Diivan-i-Ghalib aur Aniis ke kuchh marsiyoN ke 3ilaavah yahii ek kitaab hai jise ham Urdu shaa3irii kii 3aalamii adab ko dain kah sakte haiN xvaah Kaleem-ud-Deen yaa Firaq kuchh bhii kaheN. is meN Iqbal kii shaa3irii kaa badr-i-kaamil hii nahiiN, sadiyoN kii chaman-bandii kaa Haasil bhii mil saktaa hai. is kii nazmeN aur GhazleN donoN Urdu shaa3irii kii aabruu haiN....."

It appears that in his list Miir, Ghalib, Anis have found a place and Iqbal could be at the top.

Now please allow me to quote from an article bearing the name "xudaa bane the Yagaana" by K.K.Khullar's from his book, "Urdu kaa aaxirii naqqaad". You may already know and Professor Raj Kumar SaaHib will confirm this. Yaas Yagana Changezi detested Mirza Ghalib but this was mild compared with his feelings for Iqbal. He in fact liked to call him by the name "Ikbaal" due to Iqbal's Punjabi ethnicity!

"maahir-i-nafsiyaat kaa kahnaa hai kih Ghalib Yagana ke dil-o-dimaaGh par chha'e hu'e the lekin Iqbal ko unhoN ne kabhii Ustaad nahiiN maanaa. vuh kahte the kih Iqbal ek nihaayat "Shaikh Chillii" qism kaa insaan thaa jise siyaasat ne banaayaa. shaa3irii aur siyaasat do 3alaiHidah chiizeN haiN. un kaa kahnaa thaa, "Iqbal Sir to ho gayaa lekin shaa3ir nah ban sakaa". bichaarah isii fikr-i-maHaal meN chal basaa. vuh Iqbal ko Ikbaal likhte the..

isTej kaa shaa3ir hai nah chauraahe kaa
letaa hai qalam se kaam charvaahe kaa
maiN bhii vahii kahtaa huuN jo tum kahte ho
Ikbaal ik baal hai magar kaahe kaa"

So, I assume, according to Yagana Changezi, Iqbal would n't qualify to be on any list of poets, let alone A or B teams!

Just comparing the views of four people Iqbal could be anywhere between 1, 2, 3, 4 or no where! If this is the view of those in the know, what chance do we have?

I too am perplexed that Faiz's name is not there amongst Dr. Maqbool's two lists. Not only this, apart from Iqbal, no other Punjabi poet has found a place amongst the chosen few! Where are the Hindu poets like Daya Shankar Nasim, Pandit Brij Narayan Chakbast, Pandit Labho Ram Josh Malsiyani, 'Arsh Malsiyani and many more? ? (I know one sole figure, Firaq Gorakhpuri has been accorded the honour!) You can see all this can be rather controversial!:-)

Naseer

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 8:20:15 AM UTC-4, Naseer wrote:
> On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 21:49:21 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > >
> > > > Aadaab.
> > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > >
> > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > ________Zoya
> > Aadaab:
> > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> >
> > A Team:
> > Ghalib
> > Mir
> > Iqbal
> > Sauda
> > Dard
> > Aatish
> > Momin
> > Mashafi
> > Mir Anis
> > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > Dagh
> > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> >
> > B Team:
> > Zauq
> > Vali
> > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > Shaifta
> > Akbar Allahabadi
> > Shah Naseer
> > Asghar Gondvi
> > Fani Badayuni
> > Hasrat Mohani
> > Shad Azimabadi
> > Jigar Muradabadi
> > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> >
> > Best wishes.
> > Khalid
> Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> Your original question was about top four poets. The above A and B teams are Dr. Maqbool SaaHib's top Ghazal poets. Either way, anyone providing a list of 4 best Urdu poets or best Ghazal poets would need to bear in mind the following.
>
> 1. The criteria under which a poet is being judged.
>
> 2. To have read the works of all poets from Vali Dakkani down to the modern era.
>
> I don't know how many people have read everything there is of all the Urdu poets but I have read very little of Urdu poetry (or any other poetry for that matter). So, under both counts I would not be qualified to make such a list. I suspect Urdu scholars and critics have read reasonable chunks of most of the poets worth (in their eyes) reading. As far as I know, the critics generally have this order.
>
> 1. Miir
> 2. Ghalib
> 3. Iqbal
>
> For some reason they don't go beyond 3!:-) I also don't know the criteria these people are using to make their judgement. It seems, some argue that Ghalib is above Miir. I think, short of providing factual evidence for the criteria under discussion, most mortals like us just go by the whim of our heart and like a poet or not. Other times you may like something of one poet but not necessarily everything that s/he has written. So, it is all rather subjective. Please allow me to provide one or two examples.
>
> "Meer Anees, Meer Dard, Nasikh, Momin, Dagh in sab ke yahaaN muzakkar mu'annas, muHaavarah, talaffuz aur ma3nii kii GhalatiyaaN miltii haiN. lekin is ke baa-vujuud vuh mustanad ThahreN aur bichaarah Iqbal jo Anees-o-Meer se kam darjah shaa3ir hargiz nahiiN, sirf is liye paayah-i-i3tibaar se saaqit ho kih us ke yahaaN zabaan kii do-chaar laGhzisheN nazar aatii haiN?" Shamsur Rahman Faruqi
>
> It appears that Faruqi is placing Iqbal at par with Miir and Anis (the last mentioned could be 4th on the critics' list perhaps). On the other hand Professor Gyan Chand Jain has said the following about Iqbal, in his article entitled, "Ghair Muslim rahnumaay-i-diin - Iqbal kii nazar meN"...
>
> "mujhe Hakiim-i-millat 'Allama Iqbal ke nazriyaat se bunyaadii ixtilaaf hai lekin is ke baavujuud maiN do sachchaa'iyoN se inkaar nahiiN kar saktaa. ek yih kih Iqbal Urdu ke sab se baRe shaa3ir haiN. Ghalib se baRe, Miir aur Anis se baRe. duusre yih kih...."So, now the list is
>
> 1. Iqbal
> 2. Miir
> 3. Ghalib
> 4. Anis
>
> The situation for 2, 3 and 4 could be in a state of flux or in words it is "fluid":-)
>
> Most of you if not all, will have heard of the renowned scholar of Urdu, Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor (1911-2002), who has many publications to his name. Amongst these is one bearing the name of "Daanishvar Iqbal" and the last chapter is called "Sirf ek kitaab". In this chapter he mentions Maulana Jauhar who, when he was on a journey, was asked which one book he would like to take with him. He chose the Qur'an but when he was pushed to give another choice, he went for "Diivan-i-DaaGh". Niyaz Fathepuri said somewhere that if he had to choose the diivan of just one poet, he would go for Momin.... Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor then goes on to talk about himself.
>
> "mujhe agar hazaaroN kitaaboN meN ek kaa intixaab karnaa ho, samundar meN se ek mauj par tavajjuh markuuz karnii ho, baaGh meN se ek phuul chun_naa ho to maiN "Baal-i-Jibriil" kaa naam luuN gaa.
>
> ....puurii Urdu shaa3irii meN Meer ke muntaxib ash3aar, Diivan-i-Ghalib aur Aniis ke kuchh marsiyoN ke 3ilaavah yahii ek kitaab hai jise ham Urdu shaa3irii kii 3aalamii adab ko dain kah sakte haiN xvaah Kaleem-ud-Deen yaa Firaq kuchh bhii kaheN. is meN Iqbal kii shaa3irii kaa badr-i-kaamil hii nahiiN, sadiyoN kii chaman-bandii kaa Haasil bhii mil saktaa hai. is kii nazmeN aur GhazleN donoN Urdu shaa3irii kii aabruu haiN....."
>
> It appears that in his list Miir, Ghalib, Anis have found a place and Iqbal could be at the top.
>
> Now please allow me to quote from an article bearing the name "xudaa bane the Yagaana" by K.K.Khullar's from his book, "Urdu kaa aaxirii naqqaad". You may already know and Professor Raj Kumar SaaHib will confirm this. Yaas Yagana Changezi detested Mirza Ghalib but this was mild compared with his feelings for Iqbal. He in fact liked to call him by the name "Ikbaal" due to Iqbal's Punjabi ethnicity!
>
> "maahir-i-nafsiyaat kaa kahnaa hai kih Ghalib Yagana ke dil-o-dimaaGh par chha'e hu'e the lekin Iqbal ko unhoN ne kabhii Ustaad nahiiN maanaa. vuh kahte the kih Iqbal ek nihaayat "Shaikh Chillii" qism kaa insaan thaa jise siyaasat ne banaayaa. shaa3irii aur siyaasat do 3alaiHidah chiizeN haiN. un kaa kahnaa thaa, "Iqbal Sir to ho gayaa lekin shaa3ir nah ban sakaa". bichaarah isii fikr-i-maHaal meN chal basaa. vuh Iqbal ko Ikbaal likhte the..
>
> isTej kaa shaa3ir hai nah chauraahe kaa
> letaa hai qalam se kaam charvaahe kaa
> maiN bhii vahii kahtaa huuN jo tum kahte ho
> Ikbaal ik baal hai magar kaahe kaa"
>
> So, I assume, according to Yagana Changezi, Iqbal would n't qualify to be on any list of poets, let alone A or B teams!
>
> Just comparing the views of four people Iqbal could be anywhere between 1, 2, 3, 4 or no where! If this is the view of those in the know, what chance do we have?
>
> I too am perplexed that Faiz's name is not there amongst Dr. Maqbool's two lists. Not only this, apart from Iqbal, no other Punjabi poet has found a place amongst the chosen few! Where are the Hindu poets like Daya Shankar Nasim, Pandit Brij Narayan Chakbast, Pandit Labho Ram Josh Malsiyani, 'Arsh Malsiyani and many more? ? (I know one sole figure, Firaq Gorakhpuri has been accorded the honour!) You can see all this can be rather controversial!:-)
>
> Naseer
Aadaab all:
Naseer SahHib, thanks for your detailed response. I will forward it to Sohail. I will also speak with him later once he has read it. He is on the move these days but I will catch him somewhere.
It is imperative that you and Sohail should have a detailed conversation - a verbal one. He is dying for it. He feels that oral discussion is more productive and satisfying than a written one. And he wouldn't write, any way. Finally I, Sohail and Zoya SaHiba have established verbal lines of communication. My telephone number, as well as Sohail's number, is available on this forum. You could communicate with me via WhatsApp and
I will pass that number on to Sohail. If you don't trust me then you could send your number to Zoya SaHiba, who would pass it on to Sohail. In any case, I feel a verbal communication must be established between you and Sohail. It wouldn't be the same I relaying his response to you as he speaking directly to you.
Best wishes.
Xalid

On Friday, 28 May 2021 at 15:16:49 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 8:20:15 AM UTC-4, Naseer wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 21:49:21 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > Khalid
> > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > >
> > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > ________Zoya
> > > Aadaab:
> > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > >
> > > A Team:
> > > Ghalib
> > > Mir
> > > Iqbal
> > > Sauda
> > > Dard
> > > Aatish
> > > Momin
> > > Mashafi
> > > Mir Anis
> > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > Dagh
> > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > >
> > > B Team:
> > > Zauq
> > > Vali
> > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > Shaifta
> > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > Shah Naseer
> > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > Fani Badayuni
> > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > >
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Khalid
> > Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.
> >
> > Your original question was about top four poets. The above A and B teams are Dr. Maqbool SaaHib's top Ghazal poets. Either way, anyone providing a list of 4 best Urdu poets or best Ghazal poets would need to bear in mind the following.
> >
> > 1. The criteria under which a poet is being judged.
> >
> > 2. To have read the works of all poets from Vali Dakkani down to the modern era.
> >
> > I don't know how many people have read everything there is of all the Urdu poets but I have read very little of Urdu poetry (or any other poetry for that matter). So, under both counts I would not be qualified to make such a list. I suspect Urdu scholars and critics have read reasonable chunks of most of the poets worth (in their eyes) reading. As far as I know, the critics generally have this order.
> >
> > 1. Miir
> > 2. Ghalib
> > 3. Iqbal
> >
> > For some reason they don't go beyond 3!:-) I also don't know the criteria these people are using to make their judgement. It seems, some argue that Ghalib is above Miir. I think, short of providing factual evidence for the criteria under discussion, most mortals like us just go by the whim of our heart and like a poet or not. Other times you may like something of one poet but not necessarily everything that s/he has written. So, it is all rather subjective. Please allow me to provide one or two examples.
> >
> > "Meer Anees, Meer Dard, Nasikh, Momin, Dagh in sab ke yahaaN muzakkar mu'annas, muHaavarah, talaffuz aur ma3nii kii GhalatiyaaN miltii haiN. lekin is ke baa-vujuud vuh mustanad ThahreN aur bichaarah Iqbal jo Anees-o-Meer se kam darjah shaa3ir hargiz nahiiN, sirf is liye paayah-i-i3tibaar se saaqit ho kih us ke yahaaN zabaan kii do-chaar laGhzisheN nazar aatii haiN?" Shamsur Rahman Faruqi
> >
> > It appears that Faruqi is placing Iqbal at par with Miir and Anis (the last mentioned could be 4th on the critics' list perhaps). On the other hand Professor Gyan Chand Jain has said the following about Iqbal, in his article entitled, "Ghair Muslim rahnumaay-i-diin - Iqbal kii nazar meN"...
> >
> > "mujhe Hakiim-i-millat 'Allama Iqbal ke nazriyaat se bunyaadii ixtilaaf hai lekin is ke baavujuud maiN do sachchaa'iyoN se inkaar nahiiN kar saktaa. ek yih kih Iqbal Urdu ke sab se baRe shaa3ir haiN. Ghalib se baRe, Miir aur Anis se baRe. duusre yih kih...."So, now the list is
> >
> > 1. Iqbal
> > 2. Miir
> > 3. Ghalib
> > 4. Anis
> >
> > The situation for 2, 3 and 4 could be in a state of flux or in words it is "fluid":-)
> >
> > Most of you if not all, will have heard of the renowned scholar of Urdu, Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor (1911-2002), who has many publications to his name. Amongst these is one bearing the name of "Daanishvar Iqbal" and the last chapter is called "Sirf ek kitaab". In this chapter he mentions Maulana Jauhar who, when he was on a journey, was asked which one book he would like to take with him. He chose the Qur'an but when he was pushed to give another choice, he went for "Diivan-i-DaaGh". Niyaz Fathepuri said somewhere that if he had to choose the diivan of just one poet, he would go for Momin.... Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor then goes on to talk about himself.
> >
> > "mujhe agar hazaaroN kitaaboN meN ek kaa intixaab karnaa ho, samundar meN se ek mauj par tavajjuh markuuz karnii ho, baaGh meN se ek phuul chun_naa ho to maiN "Baal-i-Jibriil" kaa naam luuN gaa.
> >
> > ....puurii Urdu shaa3irii meN Meer ke muntaxib ash3aar, Diivan-i-Ghalib aur Aniis ke kuchh marsiyoN ke 3ilaavah yahii ek kitaab hai jise ham Urdu shaa3irii kii 3aalamii adab ko dain kah sakte haiN xvaah Kaleem-ud-Deen yaa Firaq kuchh bhii kaheN. is meN Iqbal kii shaa3irii kaa badr-i-kaamil hii nahiiN, sadiyoN kii chaman-bandii kaa Haasil bhii mil saktaa hai. is kii nazmeN aur GhazleN donoN Urdu shaa3irii kii aabruu haiN....."
> >
> > It appears that in his list Miir, Ghalib, Anis have found a place and Iqbal could be at the top.
> >
> > Now please allow me to quote from an article bearing the name "xudaa bane the Yagaana" by K.K.Khullar's from his book, "Urdu kaa aaxirii naqqaad". You may already know and Professor Raj Kumar SaaHib will confirm this. Yaas Yagana Changezi detested Mirza Ghalib but this was mild compared with his feelings for Iqbal. He in fact liked to call him by the name "Ikbaal" due to Iqbal's Punjabi ethnicity!
> >
> > "maahir-i-nafsiyaat kaa kahnaa hai kih Ghalib Yagana ke dil-o-dimaaGh par chha'e hu'e the lekin Iqbal ko unhoN ne kabhii Ustaad nahiiN maanaa. vuh kahte the kih Iqbal ek nihaayat "Shaikh Chillii" qism kaa insaan thaa jise siyaasat ne banaayaa. shaa3irii aur siyaasat do 3alaiHidah chiizeN haiN. un kaa kahnaa thaa, "Iqbal Sir to ho gayaa lekin shaa3ir nah ban sakaa". bichaarah isii fikr-i-maHaal meN chal basaa. vuh Iqbal ko Ikbaal likhte the..
> >
> > isTej kaa shaa3ir hai nah chauraahe kaa
> > letaa hai qalam se kaam charvaahe kaa
> > maiN bhii vahii kahtaa huuN jo tum kahte ho
> > Ikbaal ik baal hai magar kaahe kaa"
> >
> > So, I assume, according to Yagana Changezi, Iqbal would n't qualify to be on any list of poets, let alone A or B teams!
> >
> > Just comparing the views of four people Iqbal could be anywhere between 1, 2, 3, 4 or no where! If this is the view of those in the know, what chance do we have?
> >
> > I too am perplexed that Faiz's name is not there amongst Dr. Maqbool's two lists. Not only this, apart from Iqbal, no other Punjabi poet has found a place amongst the chosen few! Where are the Hindu poets like Daya Shankar Nasim, Pandit Brij Narayan Chakbast, Pandit Labho Ram Josh Malsiyani, 'Arsh Malsiyani and many more? ? (I know one sole figure, Firaq Gorakhpuri has been accorded the honour!) You can see all this can be rather controversial!:-)
> >
> > Naseer
> Aadaab all:
> Naseer SahHib, thanks for your detailed response. I will forward it to Sohail. I will also speak with him later once he has read it. He is on the move these days but I will catch him somewhere.
> It is imperative that you and Sohail should have a detailed conversation - a verbal one. He is dying for it. He feels that oral discussion is more productive and satisfying than a written one. And he wouldn't write, any way.. Finally I, Sohail and Zoya SaHiba have established verbal lines of communication. My telephone number, as well as Sohail's number, is available on this forum. You could communicate with me via WhatsApp and
> I will pass that number on to Sohail. If you don't trust me then you could send your number to Zoya SaHiba, who would pass it on to Sohail. In any case, I feel a verbal communication must be established between you and Sohail. It wouldn't be the same I relaying his response to you as he speaking directly to you.
> Best wishes.
> Xalid

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 11:44:30 AM UTC-4, Naseer wrote:
> On Friday, 28 May 2021 at 15:16:49 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 8:20:15 AM UTC-4, Naseer wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 25 May 2021 at 21:49:21 UTC+1, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 11:47:08 AM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, May 22, 2021 at 6:22:40 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Aadaab.
> > > > > > Thanks. I will check with Dr. Maqbool about his list, but I would like to get the responses from the others in this group first.
> > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > Khalid
> > > > > I agree Khalid sahib, it is a good idea to hold off Dr Maqbool's list for now.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a quick follow up comment to my list. Had you asked for the top 5 or the top 3, it would have been much easier for me to put together the names. I debated for a while if the fourth one should be Meer or Daagh, and eventually decided to go with Daagh. So my top 5 would have included both of these names, along with my top 3: Ghalib, Iqbal and Faiz.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > ________Zoya
> > > > Aadaab:
> > > > I did speak with Dr. Maqbool about his preferred list. From the top of his head he came up with these two lists as A Team and B Team. The list is not random but based on his own preference:
> > > >
> > > > A Team:
> > > > Ghalib
> > > > Mir
> > > > Iqbal
> > > > Sauda
> > > > Dard
> > > > Aatish
> > > > Momin
> > > > Mashafi
> > > > Mir Anis
> > > > Nazeer Akbarabadi
> > > > Dagh
> > > > Bahadur Shah Zafar
> > > >
> > > > B Team:
> > > > Zauq
> > > > Vali
> > > > Siraj Aurangabadi
> > > > Shaifta
> > > > Akbar Allahabadi
> > > > Shah Naseer
> > > > Asghar Gondvi
> > > > Fani Badayuni
> > > > Hasrat Mohani
> > > > Shad Azimabadi
> > > > Jigar Muradabadi
> > > > Firaq Gorakhpuri
> > > >
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > > Khalid
> > > Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.
> > >
> > > Your original question was about top four poets. The above A and B teams are Dr. Maqbool SaaHib's top Ghazal poets. Either way, anyone providing a list of 4 best Urdu poets or best Ghazal poets would need to bear in mind the following.
> > >
> > > 1. The criteria under which a poet is being judged.
> > >
> > > 2. To have read the works of all poets from Vali Dakkani down to the modern era.
> > >
> > > I don't know how many people have read everything there is of all the Urdu poets but I have read very little of Urdu poetry (or any other poetry for that matter). So, under both counts I would not be qualified to make such a list. I suspect Urdu scholars and critics have read reasonable chunks of most of the poets worth (in their eyes) reading. As far as I know, the critics generally have this order.
> > >
> > > 1. Miir
> > > 2. Ghalib
> > > 3. Iqbal
> > >
> > > For some reason they don't go beyond 3!:-) I also don't know the criteria these people are using to make their judgement. It seems, some argue that Ghalib is above Miir. I think, short of providing factual evidence for the criteria under discussion, most mortals like us just go by the whim of our heart and like a poet or not. Other times you may like something of one poet but not necessarily everything that s/he has written. So, it is all rather subjective. Please allow me to provide one or two examples.
> > >
> > > "Meer Anees, Meer Dard, Nasikh, Momin, Dagh in sab ke yahaaN muzakkar mu'annas, muHaavarah, talaffuz aur ma3nii kii GhalatiyaaN miltii haiN. lekin is ke baa-vujuud vuh mustanad ThahreN aur bichaarah Iqbal jo Anees-o-Meer se kam darjah shaa3ir hargiz nahiiN, sirf is liye paayah-i-i3tibaar se saaqit ho kih us ke yahaaN zabaan kii do-chaar laGhzisheN nazar aatii haiN?" Shamsur Rahman Faruqi
> > >
> > > It appears that Faruqi is placing Iqbal at par with Miir and Anis (the last mentioned could be 4th on the critics' list perhaps). On the other hand Professor Gyan Chand Jain has said the following about Iqbal, in his article entitled, "Ghair Muslim rahnumaay-i-diin - Iqbal kii nazar meN"...
> > >
> > > "mujhe Hakiim-i-millat 'Allama Iqbal ke nazriyaat se bunyaadii ixtilaaf hai lekin is ke baavujuud maiN do sachchaa'iyoN se inkaar nahiiN kar saktaa. ek yih kih Iqbal Urdu ke sab se baRe shaa3ir haiN. Ghalib se baRe, Miir aur Anis se baRe. duusre yih kih...."So, now the list is
> > >
> > > 1. Iqbal
> > > 2. Miir
> > > 3. Ghalib
> > > 4. Anis
> > >
> > > The situation for 2, 3 and 4 could be in a state of flux or in words it is "fluid":-)
> > >
> > > Most of you if not all, will have heard of the renowned scholar of Urdu, Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor (1911-2002), who has many publications to his name. Amongst these is one bearing the name of "Daanishvar Iqbal" and the last chapter is called "Sirf ek kitaab". In this chapter he mentions Maulana Jauhar who, when he was on a journey, was asked which one book he would like to take with him. He chose the Qur'an but when he was pushed to give another choice, he went for "Diivan-i-DaaGh". Niyaz Fathepuri said somewhere that if he had to choose the diivan of just one poet, he would go for Momin.... Aal-e-Ahmad Suroor then goes on to talk about himself.
> > >
> > > "mujhe agar hazaaroN kitaaboN meN ek kaa intixaab karnaa ho, samundar meN se ek mauj par tavajjuh markuuz karnii ho, baaGh meN se ek phuul chun_naa ho to maiN "Baal-i-Jibriil" kaa naam luuN gaa.
> > >
> > > ....puurii Urdu shaa3irii meN Meer ke muntaxib ash3aar, Diivan-i-Ghalib aur Aniis ke kuchh marsiyoN ke 3ilaavah yahii ek kitaab hai jise ham Urdu shaa3irii kii 3aalamii adab ko dain kah sakte haiN xvaah Kaleem-ud-Deen yaa Firaq kuchh bhii kaheN. is meN Iqbal kii shaa3irii kaa badr-i-kaamil hii nahiiN, sadiyoN kii chaman-bandii kaa Haasil bhii mil saktaa hai. is kii nazmeN aur GhazleN donoN Urdu shaa3irii kii aabruu haiN....."
> > >
> > > It appears that in his list Miir, Ghalib, Anis have found a place and Iqbal could be at the top.
> > >
> > > Now please allow me to quote from an article bearing the name "xudaa bane the Yagaana" by K.K.Khullar's from his book, "Urdu kaa aaxirii naqqaad". You may already know and Professor Raj Kumar SaaHib will confirm this. Yaas Yagana Changezi detested Mirza Ghalib but this was mild compared with his feelings for Iqbal. He in fact liked to call him by the name "Ikbaal" due to Iqbal's Punjabi ethnicity!
> > >
> > > "maahir-i-nafsiyaat kaa kahnaa hai kih Ghalib Yagana ke dil-o-dimaaGh par chha'e hu'e the lekin Iqbal ko unhoN ne kabhii Ustaad nahiiN maanaa. vuh kahte the kih Iqbal ek nihaayat "Shaikh Chillii" qism kaa insaan thaa jise siyaasat ne banaayaa. shaa3irii aur siyaasat do 3alaiHidah chiizeN haiN. un kaa kahnaa thaa, "Iqbal Sir to ho gayaa lekin shaa3ir nah ban sakaa". bichaarah isii fikr-i-maHaal meN chal basaa. vuh Iqbal ko Ikbaal likhte the...
> > >
> > > isTej kaa shaa3ir hai nah chauraahe kaa
> > > letaa hai qalam se kaam charvaahe kaa
> > > maiN bhii vahii kahtaa huuN jo tum kahte ho
> > > Ikbaal ik baal hai magar kaahe kaa"
> > >
> > > So, I assume, according to Yagana Changezi, Iqbal would n't qualify to be on any list of poets, let alone A or B teams!
> > >
> > > Just comparing the views of four people Iqbal could be anywhere between 1, 2, 3, 4 or no where! If this is the view of those in the know, what chance do we have?
> > >
> > > I too am perplexed that Faiz's name is not there amongst Dr. Maqbool's two lists. Not only this, apart from Iqbal, no other Punjabi poet has found a place amongst the chosen few! Where are the Hindu poets like Daya Shankar Nasim, Pandit Brij Narayan Chakbast, Pandit Labho Ram Josh Malsiyani, 'Arsh Malsiyani and many more? ? (I know one sole figure, Firaq Gorakhpuri has been accorded the honour!) You can see all this can be rather controversial!:-)
> > >
> > > Naseer
> > Aadaab all:
> > Naseer SahHib, thanks for your detailed response. I will forward it to Sohail. I will also speak with him later once he has read it. He is on the move these days but I will catch him somewhere.
> > It is imperative that you and Sohail should have a detailed conversation - a verbal one. He is dying for it. He feels that oral discussion is more productive and satisfying than a written one. And he wouldn't write, any way. Finally I, Sohail and Zoya SaHiba have established verbal lines of communication. My telephone number, as well as Sohail's number, is available on this forum. You could communicate with me via WhatsApp and
> > I will pass that number on to Sohail. If you don't trust me then you could send your number to Zoya SaHiba, who would pass it on to Sohail. In any case, I feel a verbal communication must be established between you and Sohail. It wouldn't be the same I relaying his response to you as he speaking directly to you.
> > Best wishes.
> > Xalid
> Khalid SaaHib, aadaab.
>
> I have responded to your post. It is not a matter of not trusting you or anyone else but I am not in the same league as people like Dr. Maqbool SaaHib. So, please, I wish to excused from these telephonic or other communications.
>
> Best wishes,
> Naseer
Aadaab Naseer SaHib:
You are being humble. kasar-e-nafsi. Dr. Maqbool, however, thinks that you are definitely in his league. Actually, he thinks that you are the one he can have a decent and intellectual discussion with. Anyway, it is your decision and we respect it. He will be disappointed.
Best wishes.
Xalid

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 11:14:29 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:

> Actually, he thinks that you are the one he can have a decent and intellectual discussion with.
> Best wishes.
> Xalid

Now now, Dr Siddiqui, wait a minute. I have not spoken with Dr Maqbool yet, and I want it on record that others in this group can also have 'decent and intellectual' discussions about Urdu poetry. Just sayin'. :-))

________Zoya

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 12:42:40 PM UTC-4, Zoya wrote:
> On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 11:14:29 AM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
>
> > Actually, he thinks that you are the one he can have a decent and intellectual discussion with.
> > Best wishes.
> > Xalid
>
> Now now, Dr Siddiqui, wait a minute. I have not spoken with Dr Maqbool yet, and I want it on record that others in this group can also have 'decent and intellectual' discussions about Urdu poetry. Just sayin'. :-))
>
> ________Zoya
Aadaab all:
Any one is free to speak with anyone. Whoever wants to speak with Dr. Maqbool can do it. Those who don't want to speak with him don't have to do it. I am out of it as a middleman. I don't know why I got involved in this in the first place? Naiki kar darya meiN Daal.
Best wishes.
Xalid

On Friday, May 28, 2021 at 12:42:25 PM UTC-5, Khalid Siddiqui wrote:
> Aadaab all:

> Any one is free to speak with anyone. Whoever wants to speak with Dr. Maqbool can do it. Those who don't want to speak with him don't have to do it. I am out of it as a middleman. I don't know why I got involved in this in the first place? Naiki kar darya meiN Daal.
> Best wishes.
> Xalid

Jokes apart Khalid sahib, I am truly grateful that you took the effort to get us acquainted with Dr Maqbool. How else would I get an opportunity to talk to someone like him? As I said earlier, it is my dream world, listening to academic conversations about Urdu poetry. I can soak 'em like a sponge. :)

It is an honor for me personally to get to know both of you gentlemen through Alup.

Thanks again,

_______Zoya