https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
fentanyl.
Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
dosage.

On 11/23/2021 6:20 AM, trotsky wrote:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
>
>
> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
> fentanyl.
> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
> dosage.

If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...

In article <Q28nJ.71290$SW5.56499@fx45.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
> laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...

Oh, don't worry. We have a whole new cornucopia of imagined morality
offenses that the radical left has invented over the last couple of
years just ripe for social enforcement to keep them occupied.

Just ask Dave Chappelle.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

>>If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
>>laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...

>Oh, don't worry. We have a whole new cornucopia of imagined morality
>offenses that the radical left has invented over the last couple of
>years just ripe for social enforcement to keep them occupied.

>Just ask Dave Chappelle.

Do you count prosyletizers concerned with saving your soul because they
disapprove of how you worship and want laws promoting public religious
observance like mandatory prayer in school and public events as the
radical left?

I've never understood the religious exception people make for telling
other people how they must live.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 10:48:00 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>> fentanyl.
>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>> dosage.
>
>If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
>laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...

More importantly if these folks are going to get free opiods why
shouldn't I get free insulin? I can assure you it isn't free now!

On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>
>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>> fentanyl.
>
> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
> ought to remain illegal.
>
> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>
>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>> dosage.
>
> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.

Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value. Also,
philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.

On Nov 23, 2021 at 2:59:43 PM PST, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>> fentanyl.
>>
>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>> ought to remain illegal.
>>
>>
>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>
>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>> dosage.
>>
>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>
> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value. Also,
> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.

Because when extremely toxic and fatal poisons are allowed to be possessed
willy-nilly by drug addicts, they tend to endanger the lives of other people.

Perhaps you remember a few weeks ago when I related the story of my girlfriend
nearly dying after a murder suspect flipped over a table with fentanyl on it
to avoid arrest, and contaminating her skin with a grain or two, which was all
it took to nearly kill her.

You really think it's a good idea to make it legal for anyone, let alone
people who are so irresponsible they've become drug addicts, to just sling
deadly shit like that around?

On 11/23/2021 4:59 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>> fentanyl.
>>
>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>> ought to remain illegal.
>>
>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>
>>
>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>> dosage.
>>
>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>
> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value.  Also,
> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.

I can't tell if you're trying to be funny==you think a substance a
thousand times more addicting than nicotine allows for "informed choices?"

On 11/23/2021 5:15 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Nov 23, 2021 at 2:59:43 PM PST, "moviePig" <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>> fentanyl.
>>>
>>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>>> ought to remain illegal.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>>
>>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>>> dosage.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>>
>> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value. Also,
>> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.
>
> Because when extremely toxic and fatal poisons are allowed to be possessed
> willy-nilly by drug addicts, they tend to endanger the lives of other people.
>
> Perhaps you remember a few weeks ago when I related the story of my girlfriend
> nearly dying after a murder suspect flipped over a table with fentanyl on it
> to avoid arrest, and contaminating her skin with a grain or two, which was all
> it took to nearly kill her.
>
> You really think it's a good idea to make it legal for anyone, let alone
> people who are so irresponsible they've become drug addicts, to just sling
> deadly shit like that around?

That "story" sounds like a joke. I challenge you to give it a scintilla
of context.

On 11/23/2021 10:15 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <Q28nJ.71290$SW5.56499@fx45.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
>> laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...
>
> Oh, don't worry. We have a whole new cornucopia of imagined morality
> offenses that the radical left has invented over the last couple of
> years just ripe for social enforcement to keep them occupied.
>
> Just ask Dave Chappelle.
>

GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH A PITCHFORK.

On Tuesday, 23 November 2021 at 06:20:07 UTC-5, gmsin...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
>
> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
> fentanyl.
> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
> dosage.

It shouldn't be the government's job to see losers get high.

On 11/23/2021 6:24 PM, trotsky wrote:
> On 11/23/2021 4:59 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>> fentanyl.
>>>
>>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>>> ought to remain illegal.
>>>
>>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>>> dosage.
>>>
>>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>>
>> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value.  Also,
>> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.
>
>
> I can't tell if you're trying to be funny==you think a substance a
> thousand times more addicting than nicotine allows for "informed choices?"

Secondhand smoke aside, I think people (i.e., informed adults) should
get to smoke. And I think that people should have access to anything
(albeit in a manner) that poses a risk to only them. Afaics, loss of
one's own control is a much scarier demon than any controlled substance.

On 11/23/2021 9:48 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/23/2021 6:20 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
>>
>>
>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>> fentanyl.
>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>> dosage.
>
> If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
> laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...
>

I don't get it.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:27:23 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 11/23/2021 6:24 PM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 11/23/2021 4:59 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>>> fentanyl.
>>>>
>>>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>>>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>>>> ought to remain illegal.
>>>>
>>>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>>>> dosage.
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>>>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>>>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>>>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>>>
>>> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value.  Also,
>>> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.
>>
>>
>> I can't tell if you're trying to be funny==you think a substance a
>> thousand times more addicting than nicotine allows for "informed choices?"
>
>Secondhand smoke aside, I think people (i.e., informed adults) should
>get to smoke. And I think that people should have access to anything
>(albeit in a manner) that poses a risk to only them. Afaics, loss of
>one's own control is a much scarier demon than any controlled substance.

I have no problem with smoking tobacco. Smoking marijuana is another
issue only due to a lack of info/standards and testing on the impact
of marijuana on things like driving. So it's unclear if smoking a
joint should be considered as making one too impaired to drive
(ignoring the difference in THC levels between different varieties of
weed.) I've seen entirely too many people making a habit of smoking a
joint while driving. Hell every time I go out for a walk along the
street I'll have at least one car pass by where the smell of the joint
they are smoking lingers after the car has passed by.

At least with most of the other currently illegal drugs it's clear
that there isn't really any safe level of usage while driving.

On 11/23/2021 7:27 PM, trotsky wrote:
> On 11/23/2021 9:48 AM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 11/23/2021 6:20 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
>>>
>>>
>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>> fentanyl.
>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>> dosage.
>>
>> If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
>> laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...
>>
>
>
> I don't get it.

You don't get my ridicule of the Morality Police?

On 11/23/2021 9:51 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 19:27:23 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2021 6:24 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>> On 11/23/2021 4:59 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>>>> fentanyl.
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>>>>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>>>>> ought to remain illegal.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>>>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>>>>> dosage.
>>>>>
>>>>> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
>>>>> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
>>>>> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
>>>>> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>>>>
>>>> Afaics, curtailing production will only raise the street value.  Also,
>>>> philosophically, I don't why we should control informed adults' choices.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't tell if you're trying to be funny==you think a substance a
>>> thousand times more addicting than nicotine allows for "informed choices?"
>>
>> Secondhand smoke aside, I think people (i.e., informed adults) should
>> get to smoke. And I think that people should have access to anything
>> (albeit in a manner) that poses a risk to only them. Afaics, loss of
>> one's own control is a much scarier demon than any controlled substance.
>
> I have no problem with smoking tobacco. Smoking marijuana is another
> issue only due to a lack of info/standards and testing on the impact
> of marijuana on things like driving. So it's unclear if smoking a
> joint should be considered as making one too impaired to drive
> (ignoring the difference in THC levels between different varieties of
> weed.) I've seen entirely too many people making a habit of smoking a
> joint while driving. Hell every time I go out for a walk along the
> street I'll have at least one car pass by where the smell of the joint
> they are smoking lingers after the car has passed by.
>
> At least with most of the other currently illegal drugs it's clear
> that there isn't really any safe level of usage while driving.

But then you have surprising facts such as (if indeed it still is one)
that, e.g., a beer, or even two, makes you a safer driver...

On 11/23/2021 9:58 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 11/23/2021 7:27 PM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 11/23/2021 9:48 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 11/23/2021 6:20 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/think/politics-policy/fentanyl-drug-overdose-deaths-are-rising-biden-administration-rcna6384?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>> fentanyl.
>>>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>>>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>>>> dosage.
>>>
>>> If drugs are legalized, the "morality" police, only recently shorn of
>>> laws against, e.g., sodomy and miscegenation, may turn on themselves...
>>>
>>
>>
>> I don't get it.
>
> You don't get my ridicule of the Morality Police?

If I parse the sentence a few times I can see what you're driving at.
Never mind.

On Tue, 23 Nov 2021 17:59:43 -0500, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>>
>>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>> fentanyl.
>>
>> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
>> ought to remain illegal.
>>
>> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg

Fentanyl is illegal in Canada also but has been linked to 90+% of drug
overdose deaths in Vancouver and these deathd considerably outnumber
those due to COVID, with the gap growing wider as the vaccination rate
goes up.

And it is well known where most of the poisoned drugs - let's call
fentanyl what it is - comes from namely that totalitarian state
somewhat west of us that our prime minister is in love with since
their system can "get things done" (Trudeau's own words) That same
country who attempts (and is believed to have determined the result of
4 seats in the recent election) to corrupt our elections with fake
news.

Hint: it's not the United States of America.

Now I do not favor the legalization of drugs - the only effect would
be to increase the number of addicts. I support taking ALL the money
currently devoted to 'safe injection' and devote it to active
treatment and would triple the current treatment budget.

Let those who WISH to get clean have society's full embrace and
support in doing so. Those who don't - I'd favor removing them to the
high Arctic so they can't prey on society at large. Victoria Island
would be a good choice and I'm undecided whether I mean the little
Victoria island that hosts a rather nice park close to the Parliament
buildings in Ottawa or that much larger and colder island in Canada's
Arctic archpelago which has 500 inhabitants and about 10000 bears
mostly polar bears.

Bottom line is I don't get free pharmaceuticals and see no reason to
subsidize addicts to go on being addicts - though I'll go to the wall
on behalf of those who wish to become ex-addicts.

I see no good reason to go on helping those who don't want our help
and think preying on society is all right jack.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>On 11/23/2021 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:

>>>>gmsin...@gmail.com

>>>>The war on drugs didn't work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>>>>fentanyl.

>>>I'm all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
>>>and while Fentanyl may get you high, I'd call it a poison and say
>>>ought to remain illegal.

>>>https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg

>Fentanyl is illegal in Canada also but has been linked to 90+% of drug
>overdose deaths in Vancouver and these deathd considerably outnumber
>those due to COVID, with the gap growing wider as the vaccination rate
>goes up.

>And it is well known where most of the poisoned drugs - let's call
>fentanyl what it is - comes from namely that totalitarian state
>somewhat west of us that our prime minister is in love with since
>their system can "get things done" (Trudeau's own words) That same
>country who attempts (and is believed to have determined the result of
>4 seats in the recent election) to corrupt our elections with fake
>news.

>Hint: it's not the United States of America.

Fentanyl is an anaesthetic. It's just insane that it was ever
"prescribed" outside surgery. It may be supplied from China, but it's
not China preparing the drugs for street sales. The drug traffickers
bringing in supply through Mexico aren't bringing in drugs that are
instantly poisonous usually, but there are local chemist who have been
adding poison to make the supply serve more customers. These are the
drugs that get to the street sellers.

So don't blame China. It's most likely being done locally.

>. . .

On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:44:12 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Fentanyl is an anaesthetic. It's just insane that it was ever
>"prescribed" outside surgery. It may be supplied from China, but it's
>not China preparing the drugs for street sales. The drug traffickers
>bringing in supply through Mexico aren't bringing in drugs that are
>instantly poisonous usually, but there are local chemist who have been
>adding poison to make the supply serve more customers. These are the
>drugs that get to the street sellers.
>
>So don't blame China. It's most likely being done locally.

If you're suggesting the fentanyl traffickers are not connected to the
Chinese government you are probably right.

I'm suggesting the Chinese are doing a piss-poor job of catching those
who export fentanyl from China - and certainly far less effectively if
the drugs were actually being trafficked in China itself.

Fentanyl is mixed into many drugs to amp the effect. If you think of
it as adding a small amount of vodka to a mixed drink to raise the
alcohol content you'd be about right though vodka is not in itself
toxic in small quantities.

According to
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-bc-drug-deaths-in-july-tie-2021-record-as-overdose-crisis-continues/
over 85% of drug deaths in British Columbia (where I live) involve
fentanyl. And that these deaths outnumber COVID deaths dramatically
and have been at that level for most of the last 10 years.

If that's not a crisis I don't know what is - the chief difference
between COVID and drug overdoses is that no one by their own choice
inject COVID (unlike fentanyl and heroin)

> Adam H. Kerman
> > The Horny Goat
> >
> > And it is well known where most of the poisoned drugs - let's call
> > fentanyl what it is - comes from namely that totalitarian state
> > somewhat west of us that our prime minister is in love with since
> > their system can "get things done" (Trudeau's own words) That same
> > country who attempts (and is believed to have determined the result of
> > 4 seats in the recent election) to corrupt our elections with fake
> > news.
> >
> > Hint: it's not the United States of America.
>
> Fentanyl is an anaesthetic. It's just insane that it was ever
> "prescribed" outside surgery. It may be supplied from China, but it's
> not China preparing the drugs for street sales. The drug traffickers
> bringing in supply through Mexico aren't bringing in drugs that are
> instantly poisonous usually, but there are local chemist who have been
> adding poison to make the supply serve more customers. These are the
> drugs that get to the street sellers.
>
> So don't blame China. It's most likely being done locally.

China is supplying the precursor chemicals to narco gangs in Mexico
to make Fentanyl, (as well as Methamphetamine) knowing full well
what those chemicals will be used for.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>Wed, 24 Nov 2021 15:44:12 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:

>>Fentanyl is an anaesthetic. It's just insane that it was ever
>>"prescribed" outside surgery. It may be supplied from China, but it's
>>not China preparing the drugs for street sales. The drug traffickers
>>bringing in supply through Mexico aren't bringing in drugs that are
>>instantly poisonous usually, but there are local chemist who have been
>>adding poison to make the supply serve more customers. These are the
>>drugs that get to the street sellers.

>>So don't blame China. It's most likely being done locally.

>If you're suggesting the fentanyl traffickers are not connected to the
>Chinese government you are probably right.

I'm suggesting no such thing. Given the Chinese Communist Party's iron
grip on the country, of course they are to blame.

I'm stating that it's not China that's literally making up units of
opioids for individual street sale that would kill the drug abuser who
thinks he's not getting anything as dangerous as fentanyl. It's local
labs not far removed from street sales that make up the drug compounds
that are deadly.

>I'm suggesting the Chinese are doing a piss-poor job of catching those
>who export fentanyl from China - and certainly far less effectively if
>the drugs were actually being trafficked in China itself.

I agree.

>Fentanyl is mixed into many drugs to amp the effect. If you think of
>it as adding a small amount of vodka to a mixed drink to raise the
>alcohol content you'd be about right though vodka is not in itself
>toxic in small quantities.

Fentanly is like using methynol as a cocktail ingredient.

>According to
>https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-bc-drug-deaths-in-july-tie-2021-record-as-overdose-crisis-continues/
>over 85% of drug deaths in British Columbia (where I live) involve
>fentanyl. And that these deaths outnumber COVID deaths dramatically
>and have been at that level for most of the last 10 years.

>If that's not a crisis I don't know what is - the chief difference
>between COVID and drug overdoses is that no one by their own choice
>inject COVID (unlike fentanyl and heroin)

I'm not disagreeing. What I'm saying is that the drug compounding for
street sale isn't done in China. That's done locally. China may export
pure fentanyl but they don't literally export the street drug itself.

> The Horny Goat
> > Adam H. Kerman
> >
> > So don't blame China. It's most likely being done locally.
>
> If you're suggesting the fentanyl traffickers are not connected
> to the Chinese government you are probably right.

The Chinese government absolutely knows what’s going on and allows
Mexican narco gangs to purchase the necessary chemicals to make
Fentanyl and Methamphetamine which is then sold in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare

On 2021-11-23 4:54 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> gmsin...@gmail.com
>>
>> The war on drugs didn’t work. But Biden is doubling down on it with
>> fentanyl.
>
> I’m all for legalization/decriminalization of recreational drugs
> and while Fentanyl may get you high, I’d call it a poison and say
> ought to remain illegal.
>
Is it illegal in the US? Because it's not here. One of my friends died
last year after many years with arterioschlerosis, which is apparently
very painful much of the time. He was using fentanyl patches multiple
times a day for years and I think this continued pretty much right until
his death. I remember seeing the patches in his apartment on multiple
occasions.

> https://argonautnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/cover-0206-opioids-Fentanyl._2_mg._A_lethal_dose_in_most_people-2048x1536.jpg
>
>> Ending the overdose crisis will require full drug legalization — so
>> people can access a safe supply, with accurate information about the
>> dosage.
>
> My understanding is that most of the opioid overdoses are happening
> with stuff like Oxycodone, which is made by Wall Street pharmaceutical
> corporations which know full well their product is being abused but
> don't give a shit and keep cranking out in ever increasing amounts.
>
Hulu just had an 8 part miniseries called Dopesick about the Oxycontin
crisis. (Oxycontin is the formulation of Oxycodone sold by Purdue
Pharmaceuticals.) The series was based on a non-fiction book that won
awards. I have not read the book and don't know how closely the series
adheres to the book but if the series is even halfways true, Purdue
Pharmaceuticals - no affiliation with the university! - was a
combination of deception, corruption, and dishonest marketing.

In a nutshell, Purdue found a letter in the New England Journal of
Medicine that mentioned a small study of people given low doses of
Oxycontin in a closely-supervised hospital setting and said that very
few people got addicted in that setting. Purdue somehow persuaded the
FDA to let Purdue put a label on the drug that said there was very
little risk of addiction WITHOUT specifying that this was only true in a
closely-supervised hospital setting. The FDA official that approved it
then found himself working at a very well paying job at Purdue. Then the
marketing department at Purdue went to town convincing doctors to
prescribe Oxycontin to their patients, claiming that there was very
little chance of addiction and even that kicking oxycontin was easy,
neither claim being remotely true. Then it took years for the DEA to
accumulate enough evidence to get the FDA to remove the label and for
the prosecutors to file charges against the company.

--
Rhino

On Wed, 24 Nov 2021 21:47:14 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>I'm not disagreeing. What I'm saying is that the drug compounding for
>street sale isn't done in China. That's done locally. China may export
>pure fentanyl but they don't literally export the street drug itself.

It's certainly true that 'street drugs' are primarily heroin or other
drugs and it doesn't take much fentanyl to "spike" the effect.

It also doesn't take much to add more fentanyl than intended and
thereby produce a deadly combo. We're talking milligrams here and I
know from experience it's easy to make a mistake when working in those
kinds of quantities.

While Beijing clearly isn't running local labs that does not in my
view eliminate or even mitigate culpability. Not a bit.