s
p o
i l
e r

s
p a
c e

This had to be one of the worst episodes of the series. I didn't even
make it 30 seconds before the script massively pissed me off.

Sid's sitting in a cop bar with reporters telling stories "off the
record". Uh, Sid, there's no such thing as "off the record".

Immediately, two cops for no particular reason itching to have a fight
have a fight over nothing at all anybody would throw punches over. One
cop said something about less funding for police (and I guess more for
social services) and the other punched him and beat him bad. Sid tried
to break it up but got elbowed in his right eye. This will eventually
lead to Frank getting called on the carpet because Frank has to
discipline the office who threw the first punch. The mayor, in a later
scene, gets mad because Frank had the nerve to bring up the First
Amendment.

Sid doesn't call Garrett. Somehow at their meeting the next morning, the
news hasn't yet broken so Garrett knew nothing about what happened. The
news breaks DURING the meeting, 'cuz drama.

Baker is wearing a nice outfit. We don't see her stand. She and Frank
have one of those annoying conversations in which Frank has to prod her
for information and she doesn't just flat out tell him, even though she
knows exactly what Frank will ask of her.

Baez gets about a minute of screen time. Why is she still on the show?

Lyle Lovett is back. He's a marshal, not DEA. He's been promoted. Danny
questions why the hell a supervisor is on the street as the lead officer
in an investigation so for once we get someone addressing that cliche.

He wants revenge REVENGE! There's a major cartel assasin in town, which
he forgets to mention to Danny. He plans to murder him but the assasin
(I guess he knows his stuff) gets the drop on him. Danny does
that magical showing up in the nick of time bit, saves the marshal and
prevents the murder.

In police custody, they pretend they are going to inject him with drugs
but it's just sugar. Either way it would have killed him. It was a huge
civil rights violation. Danny, why didn't you just let him murder him as
long as you were violating his civil rights?

Jamie's case is massively stupid. A shop owner begs Jamie to keep a
bookie from harming his family. Jamie talks to the henchman who
threatens him. How exactly is this going to keep the gambler from harm
and not make it worse? Turns out to be a retired cop who had worked with
Sid and mentored Jamie. Everyone in the department knows he's a crook
but they've been letting it slide. These are some major felonies. Even
though there's a complaining witness, the District Attorney declines to
prosecute for lack of evidence (huh?) and Sid pressured Danny to leave
his name out of the report filed with Intelligence for illegal gambling
connections.

The one brief moment I liked was in the final scene with Frank back in
the mayor's office actually acknowledging the mayor's job is harder.

I still can't recall the last episode of this I enjoyed.

On 2022-01-08 3:34 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> This had to be one of the worst episodes of the series. I didn't even
> make it 30 seconds before the script massively pissed me off.
>
> Sid's sitting in a cop bar with reporters telling stories "off the
> record". Uh, Sid, there's no such thing as "off the record".
>
> Immediately, two cops for no particular reason itching to have a fight
> have a fight over nothing at all anybody would throw punches over. One
> cop said something about less funding for police (and I guess more for
> social services) and the other punched him and beat him bad. Sid tried
> to break it up but got elbowed in his right eye. This will eventually
> lead to Frank getting called on the carpet because Frank has to
> discipline the office who threw the first punch. The mayor, in a later
> scene, gets mad because Frank had the nerve to bring up the First
> Amendment.
>
> Sid doesn't call Garrett. Somehow at their meeting the next morning, the
> news hasn't yet broken so Garrett knew nothing about what happened. The
> news breaks DURING the meeting, 'cuz drama.
>
> Baker is wearing a nice outfit. We don't see her stand. She and Frank
> have one of those annoying conversations in which Frank has to prod her
> for information and she doesn't just flat out tell him, even though she
> knows exactly what Frank will ask of her.
>
> Baez gets about a minute of screen time. Why is she still on the show?
>
> Lyle Lovett is back. He's a marshal, not DEA.

At one point, he talked about Ranger training. I assume he meant Texas
Rangers, as opposed to Army Rangers although I suppose he could have
been both at some point. I thought it was clear that he was working at
the DEA for the current case though.

> He's been promoted.

Yes; he's a Major now. Does the DEA have military-style ranks like
Major? My impression was that they were civilian, not military, so
having Majors seems a bit odd. Maybe BTR will know....

> Danny.
> questions why the hell a supervisor is on the street as the lead officer
> in an investigation so for once we get someone addressing that cliche.
>
Lead officer? In this episode, he seems to be the ONLY guy who came up
from Texas to work this case....

> He wants revenge REVENGE! There's a major cartel assasin in town, which
> he forgets to mention to Danny. He plans to murder him but the assasin
> (I guess he knows his stuff) gets the drop on him. Danny does
> that magical showing up in the nick of time bit, saves the marshal and
> prevents the murder.
>
> In police custody, they pretend they are going to inject him with drugs
> but it's just sugar. Either way it would have killed him. It was a huge
> civil rights violation. Danny, why didn't you just let him murder him as
> long as you were violating his civil rights?
>
Agreed.

> Jamie's case is massively stupid. A shop owner begs Jamie to keep a
> bookie from harming his family. Jamie talks to the henchman who
> threatens him. How exactly is this going to keep the gambler from harm
> and not make it worse? Turns out to be a retired cop who had worked with
> Sid and mentored Jamie. Everyone in the department knows he's a crook
> but they've been letting it slide. These are some major felonies. Even
> though there's a complaining witness, the District Attorney declines to
> prosecute for lack of evidence (huh?) and Sid pressured Danny to leave
> his name out of the report filed with Intelligence for illegal gambling
> connections.
>
> The one brief moment I liked was in the final scene with Frank back in
> the mayor's office actually acknowledging the mayor's job is harder.
>
> I still can't recall the last episode of this I enjoyed.

Yeah, it's been a while since they had a good episode. I didn't mind the
Season 11 finale when they went outside of the usual formula and had
Danny, Joe Hill, etc. driving all over New York and then having a big
shootout with the big bads in that episode, even if it struck me as
wildly unrealistic. But it was a change and I appreciated it just
because of that.

--
Rhino

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> This had to be one of the worst episodes of the series. I didn't even
> make it 30 seconds before the script massively pissed me off.
>

But it had almost no Eddie and even less Erin and Henry only had one shot.

> Sid's sitting in a cop bar with reporters telling stories "off the
> record". Uh, Sid, there's no such thing as "off the record".
>
> Immediately, two cops for no particular reason itching to have a fight
> have a fight over nothing at all anybody would throw punches over. One
> cop said something about less funding for police (and I guess more for
> social services) and the other punched him and beat him bad. Sid tried
> to break it up but got elbowed in his right eye. This will eventually
> lead to Frank getting called on the carpet because Frank has to
> discipline the office who threw the first punch. The mayor, in a later
> scene, gets mad because Frank had the nerve to bring up the First
> Amendment.

And does weird chickenshit things just designed to annoy Frank.

>
> Sid doesn't call Garrett. Somehow at their meeting the next morning, the
> news hasn't yet broken so Garrett knew nothing about what happened. The
> news breaks DURING the meeting, 'cuz drama.
>
> Baker is wearing a nice outfit. We don't see her stand. She and Frank
> have one of those annoying conversations in which Frank has to prod her
> for information and she doesn't just flat out tell him, even though she
> knows exactly what Frank will ask of her.
>
> Baez gets about a minute of screen time. Why is she still on the show?
>

I don’t know what’s going on with her. Could she be pregnant and this is
their way of hiding her?

> Lyle Lovett is back. He's a marshal, not DEA. He's been promoted. Danny
> questions why the hell a supervisor is on the street as the lead officer
> in an investigation so for once we get someone addressing that cliche.
>
> He wants revenge REVENGE! There's a major cartel assasin in town, which
> he forgets to mention to Danny. He plans to murder him but the assasin
> (I guess he knows his stuff) gets the drop on him. Danny does
> that magical showing up in the nick of time bit, saves the marshal and
> prevents the murder.

There’s at least 100 yards of empty space behind them that Danny managed to
cross in the still and dead of night without either of them hearing him. I
picture him tiptoeing up like in the Flintstones. Dink dink dink dink dink
call

>
> In police custody, they pretend they are going to inject him with drugs
> but it's just sugar. Either way it would have killed him. It was a huge
> civil rights violation. Danny, why didn't you just let him murder him as
> long as you were violating his civil rights?

Yeah, they don’t want any information from the guy, they just want him dead
or in jail.

>
> Jamie's case is massively stupid. A shop owner begs Jamie to keep a
> bookie from harming his family. Jamie talks to the henchman who
> threatens him. How exactly is this going to keep the gambler from harm
> and not make it worse?

It’s like he’s trying to get the witness guild.

Turns out to be a retired cop who had worked with
> Sid and mentored Jamie. Everyone in the department knows he's a crook
> but they've been letting it slide. These are some major felonies. Even
> though there's a complaining witness, the District Attorney declines to
> prosecute for lack of evidence (huh?) and Sid pressured Danny to leave
> his name out of the report filed with Intelligence for illegal gambling
> connections.

Sid calls Jamie into his office at 1PP to ask him to aid and abet and
probably commit felonies. How the hell is Frank not going to hear about
this? At the very least that his sons in the building.

>
> The one brief moment I liked was in the final scene with Frank back in
> the mayor's office actually acknowledging the mayor's job is harder.
>
> I still can't recall the last episode of this I enjoyed.

As I mentioned before at least Eddie how almost nothing to do. Erin has
even less except reveal a family dinner that she’s a big old slut. But
Eddie Trumps her by revealing her lesbianism at family dinner.

I’d have to look to be sure but Henry may have been filmed separately.
Frank walks and sits down but he’s really huffing and puffing to do so.

The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
years ago. Apparently she wasn’t expected to be back this soon after being
shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
at all?

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>> s
>> p
>> o
>> i
>> l
>> e
>> r
>>
>> s
>> p
>> a
>> c
>> e

>>. . .

>>Baez gets about a minute of screen time. Why is she still on the show?

>I don't know what’s going on with her. Could she be pregnant and this is
>their way of hiding her?

I thought of that. Others have suggested it. But her overcoat was open
and her face didn't look fuller. She didn't look pregnant.

>>Lyle Lovett is back. He's a marshal, not DEA. He's been promoted. Danny
>>questions why the hell a supervisor is on the street as the lead officer
>>in an investigation so for once we get someone addressing that cliche.

>>He wants revenge REVENGE! There's a major cartel assasin in town, which
>>he forgets to mention to Danny. He plans to murder him but the assasin
>>(I guess he knows his stuff) gets the drop on him. Danny does
>>that magical showing up in the nick of time bit, saves the marshal and
>>prevents the murder.

>There's at least 100 yards of empty space behind them that Danny managed to
>cross in the still and dead of night without either of them hearing him. I
>picture him tiptoeing up like in the Flintstones. Dink dink dink dink dink
>call

Hahahahahaha
>. . .

>The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>at all?

If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
is written that way to force residuals.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> o
>>> i
>>> l
>>> e
>>> r
>>>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>
>>> . . .
>
>>> Baez gets about a minute of screen time. Why is she still on the show?
>
>> I don't know what’s going on with her. Could she be pregnant and this is
>> their way of hiding her?
>
> I thought of that. Others have suggested it. But her overcoat was open
> and her face didn't look fuller. She didn't look pregnant.
>
>>> Lyle Lovett is back. He's a marshal, not DEA. He's been promoted. Danny
>>> questions why the hell a supervisor is on the street as the lead officer
>>> in an investigation so for once we get someone addressing that cliche.
>
>>> He wants revenge REVENGE! There's a major cartel assasin in town, which
>>> he forgets to mention to Danny. He plans to murder him but the assasin
>>> (I guess he knows his stuff) gets the drop on him. Danny does
>>> that magical showing up in the nick of time bit, saves the marshal and
>>> prevents the murder.
>
>> There's at least 100 yards of empty space behind them that Danny managed to
>> cross in the still and dead of night without either of them hearing him. I
>> picture him tiptoeing up like in the Flintstones. Dink dink dink dink dink
>> call
>
> Hahahahahaha
>
>> . . .
>
>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>> at all?
>
> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
> is written that way to force residuals.
>

I don’t know if there’s a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
customize it or what. Erin’s slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
credited for most of the seasons she wasn’t in. Certainly she shouldn’t be
entitled to a dime but who knows?

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>> s
>>>> p
>>>> o
>>>> i
>>>> l
>>>> e
>>>> r
>>>>
>>>> s
>>>> p
>>>> a
>>>> c
>>>> e

>>>. . .

>>>The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>>>years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>>>shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>>>January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>>>at all?

>>If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
>>is written that way to force residuals.

>I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
>customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
>credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't be
>entitled to a dime but who knows?

I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
appear in.

I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
production if his scenes get cut.

From what I've read, credits are negotiated separately, per season. You
can't use an actor's credit for other seasons, but that's the only
restriction. This has nothing to do with who is entitled to residuals. I
recall a DS9 episode set on the Defiant. Quark wasn't on the ship,
obviously, but he appeared on a view screen in a useless scene as Armin
Shimmerman was contracted to appear in every episode. They should have
had him appear as a red shirt.

The "can't use an actor's name in a season he doesn't appear in" came
up with Claudia Christian. The series finale was produced as part of the
Season 4 order. Then they received an order for Season 5 by TNT after the
options on the actors expired, as PTEN finally bit the dust. The finale
was held till all the Season 5 episodes aired, and a Season 5 episode was
substituted for PTEN's contractually required episode distibution. Her
credit does not appear on that episode as she refused to renew her contract
for Season 5. Also, in Season 1, both Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas
were weekly contract players but were listed in the main cast anyway.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> s
>>>>> p
>>>>> o
>>>>> i
>>>>> l
>>>>> e
>>>>> r
>>>>>
>>>>> s
>>>>> p
>>>>> a
>>>>> c
>>>>> e
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>>>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>>>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>>>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>>>> at all?
>
>>> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
>>> is written that way to force residuals.
>
>> I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
>> customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
>> credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't be
>> entitled to a dime but who knows?
>
> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
> appear in.
>
> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
> production if his scenes get cut.

There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
syndication?
What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don’t
actually work on the new episode?
What if it’s just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
What if the actors just on the phone but you don’t see them?

>
> From what I've read, credits are negotiated separately, per season. You
> can't use an actor's credit for other seasons, but that's the only
> restriction. This has nothing to do with who is entitled to residuals. I
> recall a DS9 episode set on the Defiant. Quark wasn't on the ship,
> obviously, but he appeared on a view screen in a useless scene as Armin
> Shimmerman was contracted to appear in every episode. They should have
> had him appear as a red shirt.
>
> The "can't use an actor's name in a season he doesn't appear in" came
> up with Claudia Christian. The series finale was produced as part of the
> Season 4 order. Then they received an order for Season 5 by TNT after the
> options on the actors expired, as PTEN finally bit the dust. The finale
> was held till all the Season 5 episodes aired, and a Season 5 episode was
> substituted for PTEN's contractually required episode distibution. Her
> credit does not appear on that episode as she refused to renew her contract
> for Season 5. Also, in Season 1, both Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas
> were weekly contract players but were listed in the main cast anyway.
>

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> s
>>>>>> p
>>>>>> o
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> l
>>>>>> e
>>>>>> r
>>>>>>
>>>>>> s
>>>>>> p
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> c
>>>>>> e
>>
>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>>>>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>>>>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>>>>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>>>>> at all?
>>
>>>> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
>>>> is written that way to force residuals.
>>
>>> I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
>>> customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
>>> credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't be
>>> entitled to a dime but who knows?
>>
>> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
>> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
>> appear in.
>>
>> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
>> production if his scenes get cut.
>
Good question.

> There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
> What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
> syndication?

Another good question.

> What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don’t
> actually work on the new episode?

I've wondered about that myself.

> What if it’s just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?

That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
descendants get money for that? (Should they?) Another example of that
would be the picture of the (then-) President that appears in shots of
government offices. (Apparently all government offices in every country
everywhere must display a picture of the current head of state.) Of
course we don't see those pictures in every frame of every scene set in
a government building but they *do* come up regularly. (They're actually
a good way to date a TV episode or film, at least to a particular
presidency or monarch.) For example, do Reagan's descendants get money
every time we see a picture of him in an episode or movie?

> What if the actors just on the phone but you don’t see them?
>
Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
P.I.? Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
but never appeared on camera.
>
>
>>
>> From what I've read, credits are negotiated separately, per season. You
>> can't use an actor's credit for other seasons, but that's the only
>> restriction. This has nothing to do with who is entitled to residuals. I
>> recall a DS9 episode set on the Defiant. Quark wasn't on the ship,
>> obviously, but he appeared on a view screen in a useless scene as Armin
>> Shimmerman was contracted to appear in every episode. They should have
>> had him appear as a red shirt.
>>
>> The "can't use an actor's name in a season he doesn't appear in" came
>> up with Claudia Christian. The series finale was produced as part of the
>> Season 4 order. Then they received an order for Season 5 by TNT after the
>> options on the actors expired, as PTEN finally bit the dust. The finale
>> was held till all the Season 5 episodes aired, and a Season 5 episode was
>> substituted for PTEN's contractually required episode distibution. Her
>> credit does not appear on that episode as she refused to renew her contract
>> for Season 5. Also, in Season 1, both Peter Jurasik and Andreas Katsulas
>> were weekly contract players but were listed in the main cast anyway.
>>
>
>
>

--
Rhino

In article <sreklk$gra$1@dont-email.me>, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
> descendants get money for that?

No.

> (Should they?)

No.

> Another example of that would be the picture of the (then-) President
> that appears in shots of government offices. (Apparently all
> government offices in every country everywhere must display a picture
> of the current head of state.) Of course we don't see those pictures
> in every frame of every scene set in a government building but they
> *do* come up regularly. (They're actually a good way to date a TV
> episode or film, at least to a particular presidency or monarch.) For
> example, do Reagan's descendants get money every time we see a
> picture of him in an episode or movie?

Not as President Reagan, no. I doubt he held the image rights to his
performances because image rights weren't a thing back then.

> > What if the actors just on the phone but you don¹t see them?
> >
> Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
> P.I.?

Of course he did. A voice performance is a performance. One might as
well wonder if Jim Backus got paid for doing Mr. Magoo.

> Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
> but never appeared on camera.

In fact, at the time, John Forsythe was the highest-paid actor on TV
for his performance as Charlie.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>>>> s
>>>>>> p
>>>>>> o
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> l
>>>>>> e
>>>>>> r
>>>>>>
>>>>>> s
>>>>>> p
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> c
>>>>>> e

>>>>> . . .

>>>. . .

>>I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
>>she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
>>appear in.

>>I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
>>production if his scenes get cut.

>There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
>What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
>syndication?

I always wondered about that one! The syndicator just doesn't want an
actor to receive residuals, so he cuts his scenes!

I don't think it works like that. There's got to be a point at which the
work is in a final edit that determines who gets residuals.

Similarly, scenes may get added in syndication, like an extra-long
episode that had aired at 90 minutes gets turned into two hour-long
episodes, or the network cut something at first airing that's no longer
controversial by the time it gets syndicated or made available for home
viewing.

>What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don't
>actually work on the new episode?

That one I know. There are no rules. The producer sends a request and if
the compensation request isn't unreasonable, they use the clip and the
actor gets a one-time payment.

>What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?

Probably the same.

>What if the actors just on the phone but you don't see them?

I guess that's treated like any compensation for a voice cast, and there
should be residuals.
>>. . .

A Friend wrote:
>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>>That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>descendants get money for that?

>No.

>>(Should they?)

>No.

Isn't he asking how image licensing is separate from copyright
exclusivity? For years, the Humphrey Bogart estate has been licensing
his image so a man who has been dead for decades can endorse your
product.

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>> e
>>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>>
>>>>>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child six
>>>>>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after being
>>>>>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline scheduled for
>>>>>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless scene
>>>>>> at all?
>>>
>>>>> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
>>>>> is written that way to force residuals.
>>>
>>>> I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
>>>> customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
>>>> credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't be
>>>> entitled to a dime but who knows?
>>>
>>> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
>>> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
>>> appear in.
>>>
>>> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
>>> production if his scenes get cut.
>>
> Good question.
>
>> There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
>> What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
>> syndication?
>
> Another good question.
>
>> What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don’t
>> actually work on the new episode?
>
> I've wondered about that myself.
>
>> What if it’s just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>
> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
> descendants get money for that? (Should they?)

I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)

Another example of that
> would be the picture of the (then-) President that appears in shots of
> government offices. (Apparently all government offices in every country
> everywhere must display a picture of the current head of state.) Of
> course we don't see those pictures in every frame of every scene set in
> a government building but they *do* come up regularly. (They're actually
> a good way to date a TV episode or film, at least to a particular
> presidency or monarch.) For example, do Reagan's descendants get money
> every time we see a picture of him in an episode or movie?

>
>> What if the actors just on the phone but you don’t see them?
>>
> Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
> P.I.? Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
> but never appeared on camera.

Oh I guarantee you that John Forsythe was paid, and paid well. Not to
mention making a career come back working for the same people on DYNASTY.
Orson Welles was credited as the voice of Robin Masters so he was
definitely getting paid too. Although who did they have to get permission
from to have somebody impersonate his voice after he died?

I found it interesting that the doubles they used when they showed the
characters from behind on both of those shows didn’t match the voice actor
well enough that they could have credibly brought in the voice actor on
screen. The Robin Masters double looked like Higgins. It was always kind of
disappointing because we knew that Orson Welles himself was never going to
show up.

Another example of that sort of thing was Warren Stevens who played the
studio head on the telephone on BRACKENS WORLD. But in the second season
when the character actually appeared he was played by Leslie Nielsen.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>> e
>
>>>>>> . . .
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
>>> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
>>> appear in.
>
>>> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
>>> production if his scenes get cut.
>
>> There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
>> What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
>> syndication?
>
> I always wondered about that one! The syndicator just doesn't want an
> actor to receive residuals, so he cuts his scenes!
>
> I don't think it works like that. There's got to be a point at which the
> work is in a final edit that determines who gets residuals.
>
> Similarly, scenes may get added in syndication, like an extra-long
> episode that had aired at 90 minutes gets turned into two hour-long
> episodes, or the network cut something at first airing that's no longer
> controversial by the time it gets syndicated or made available for home
> viewing.

Just to complicate that one, what about actors that appear in extra scenes
but they aren’t cut into the project they are just additional’s on the DVD?
Disney+ (to their Credit) has a lot of deleted scenes to go along with
their shows.

>
>> What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don't
>> actually work on the new episode?
>
> That one I know. There are no rules. The producer sends a request and if
> the compensation request isn't unreasonable, they use the clip and the
> actor gets a one-time payment.
>
>> What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>
> Probably the same.
>
>> What if the actors just on the phone but you don't see them?
>
> I guess that's treated like any compensation for a voice cast, and there
> should be residuals.
>
>>> . . .
>

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <sreklk$gra$1@dont-email.me>, Rhino
> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>
>> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>> descendants get money for that?
>
>
> No.
>
>
>> (Should they?)
>
>
> No.
>
>
>> Another example of that would be the picture of the (then-) President
>> that appears in shots of government offices. (Apparently all
>> government offices in every country everywhere must display a picture
>> of the current head of state.) Of course we don't see those pictures
>> in every frame of every scene set in a government building but they
>> *do* come up regularly. (They're actually a good way to date a TV
>> episode or film, at least to a particular presidency or monarch.) For
>> example, do Reagan's descendants get money every time we see a
>> picture of him in an episode or movie?
>
>
> Not as President Reagan, no. I doubt he held the image rights to his
> performances because image rights weren't a thing back then.
>
>
>>> What if the actors just on the phone but you don¹t see them?
>>>
>> Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
>> P.I.?
>
>
> Of course he did. A voice performance is a performance. One might as
> well wonder if Jim Backus got paid for doing Mr. Magoo.
>
>
>> Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
>> but never appeared on camera.
>
>
> In fact, at the time, John Forsythe was the highest-paid actor on TV
> for his performance as Charlie.
>

8-0

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> A Friend wrote:
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>>> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>> descendants get money for that?
>
>> No.
>
>>> (Should they?)
>
>> No.
>
> Isn't he asking how image licensing is separate from copyright
> exclusivity? For years, the Humphrey Bogart estate has been licensing
> his image so a man who has been dead for decades can endorse your
> product.
>

I believe the John Wayne estate was doing that as well. Of course in both
of those cases the people paying the licensing fees are doing so to create
new work.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

In article
<1770576625.663438319.025007.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> > On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> >> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> s
> >>>>>>> p
> >>>>>>> o
> >>>>>>> i
> >>>>>>> l
> >>>>>>> e
> >>>>>>> r
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> s
> >>>>>>> p
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> c
> >>>>>>> e
> >>>
> >>>>>> . . .
> >>>
> >>>>>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child
> >>>>>> six
> >>>>>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline
> >>>>>> scheduled for
> >>>>>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless
> >>>>>> scene
> >>>>>> at all?
> >>>
> >>>>> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
> >>>>> is written that way to force residuals.
> >>>
> >>>> I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
> >>>> customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
> >>>> credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't
> >>>> be
> >>>> entitled to a dime but who knows?
> >>>
> >>> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
> >>> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
> >>> appear in.
> >>>
> >>> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
> >>> production if his scenes get cut.
> >>
> > Good question.
> >
> >> There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
> >> What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
> >> syndication?
> >
> > Another good question.
> >
> >> What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don¹t
> >> actually work on the new episode?
> >
> > I've wondered about that myself.
> >
> >> What if it¹s just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
> >
> > That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
> > thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
> > Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
> > That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
> > descendants get money for that? (Should they?)
>
> I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)
>
>
> Another example of that
> > would be the picture of the (then-) President that appears in shots of
> > government offices. (Apparently all government offices in every country
> > everywhere must display a picture of the current head of state.) Of
> > course we don't see those pictures in every frame of every scene set in
> > a government building but they *do* come up regularly. (They're actually
> > a good way to date a TV episode or film, at least to a particular
> > presidency or monarch.) For example, do Reagan's descendants get money
> > every time we see a picture of him in an episode or movie?
>
>
> >
> >> What if the actors just on the phone but you don¹t see them?
> >>
> > Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
> > P.I.? Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
> > but never appeared on camera.
>
> Oh I guarantee you that John Forsythe was paid, and paid well. Not to
> mention making a career come back working for the same people on DYNASTY.
> Orson Welles was credited as the voice of Robin Masters so he was
> definitely getting paid too. Although who did they have to get permission
> from to have somebody impersonate his voice after he died?
>
> I found it interesting that the doubles they used when they showed the
> characters from behind on both of those shows didn¹t match the voice actor
> well enough that they could have credibly brought in the voice actor on
> screen. The Robin Masters double looked like Higgins. It was always kind of
> disappointing because we knew that Orson Welles himself was never going to
> show up.
>
> Another example of that sort of thing was Warren Stevens who played the
> studio head on the telephone on BRACKENS WORLD. But in the second season
> when the character actually appeared he was played by Leslie Nielsen.

Alan Brady was never seen on The Dick Van Dyke Show until he suddenly
was, and he was played by Carl Reiner. He'd made an earlier appearance
as Brady during a Christmas episode, but he was dressed as Santa and
wore a big white beard that was supposed to make him unrecognizable. I
guess Carl recognized that the disguise didn't work, so he played an
undisguised Brady in "Coast to Coast Big Mouth." If you're making a
list of all-time best-ever TV comedy episodes, that one should be no
worse than third on the list.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <1770576625.663438319.025007.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The gossip sites say Marisa Ramirez had her first illegitimate child
>>>>>>>> six
>>>>>>>> years ago. Apparently she wasn't expected to be back this soon after
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> shot in an episode before the hiatus. But she has a storyline
>>>>>>>> scheduled for
>>>>>>>> January 21. So the question is why did she even have that pointless
>>>>>>>> scene
>>>>>>>> at all?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If she wants residuals, she has to appear on screen. Maybe her contract
>>>>>>> is written that way to force residuals.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if there's a standard deal for that or if the union lets you
>>>>>> customize it or what. Erin's slutty and stupid daughter got main cast
>>>>>> credited for most of the seasons she wasn't in. Certainly she shouldn't
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> entitled to a dime but who knows?
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree. My understanding is she doesn't get paid for a production week
>>>>> she didn't participate in, nor residuals for an episode she doesn't
>>>>> appear in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea if an actor gets residuals for being part of the
>>>>> production if his scenes get cut.
>>>>
>>> Good question.
>>>
>>>> There must be an incredibly complex list of rules somewhere.
>>>> What about actors that are cut later on when the episodes are shortened for
>>>> syndication?
>>>
>>> Another good question.
>>>
>>>> What about actors that appear in footage from a previous episode but don¹t
>>>> actually work on the new episode?
>>>
>>> I've wondered about that myself.
>>>
>>>> What if it¹s just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>>>
>>> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>> descendants get money for that? (Should they?)
>>
>> I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)
>>
>>
>> Another example of that
>>> would be the picture of the (then-) President that appears in shots of
>>> government offices. (Apparently all government offices in every country
>>> everywhere must display a picture of the current head of state.) Of
>>> course we don't see those pictures in every frame of every scene set in
>>> a government building but they *do* come up regularly. (They're actually
>>> a good way to date a TV episode or film, at least to a particular
>>> presidency or monarch.) For example, do Reagan's descendants get money
>>> every time we see a picture of him in an episode or movie?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> What if the actors just on the phone but you don¹t see them?
>>>>
>>> Did Orson Welles get paid for his various voice appearances on Magnum
>>> P.I.? Ditto for John Whatsisname who voiced Charlie in Charlie's Angels
>>> but never appeared on camera.
>>
>> Oh I guarantee you that John Forsythe was paid, and paid well. Not to
>> mention making a career come back working for the same people on DYNASTY.
>> Orson Welles was credited as the voice of Robin Masters so he was
>> definitely getting paid too. Although who did they have to get permission
>> from to have somebody impersonate his voice after he died?
>>
>> I found it interesting that the doubles they used when they showed the
>> characters from behind on both of those shows didn¹t match the voice actor
>> well enough that they could have credibly brought in the voice actor on
>> screen. The Robin Masters double looked like Higgins. It was always kind of
>> disappointing because we knew that Orson Welles himself was never going to
>> show up.
>>
>> Another example of that sort of thing was Warren Stevens who played the
>> studio head on the telephone on BRACKENS WORLD. But in the second season
>> when the character actually appeared he was played by Leslie Nielsen.
>
>
> Alan Brady was never seen on The Dick Van Dyke Show until he suddenly
> was, and he was played by Carl Reiner. He'd made an earlier appearance
> as Brady during a Christmas episode, but he was dressed as Santa and
> wore a big white beard that was supposed to make him unrecognizable. I
> guess Carl recognized that the disguise didn't work, so he played an
> undisguised Brady in "Coast to Coast Big Mouth." If you're making a
> list of all-time best-ever TV comedy episodes, that one should be no
> worse than third on the list.
>

That’s the one where he has a range of different hair pieces on manikin
heads on his desk isn’t it?

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

In article
<481656397.663444830.961215.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> > Alan Brady was never seen on The Dick Van Dyke Show until he suddenly
> > was, and he was played by Carl Reiner. He'd made an earlier appearance
> > as Brady during a Christmas episode, but he was dressed as Santa and
> > wore a big white beard that was supposed to make him unrecognizable. I
> > guess Carl recognized that the disguise didn't work, so he played an
> > undisguised Brady in "Coast to Coast Big Mouth." If you're making a
> > list of all-time best-ever TV comedy episodes, that one should be no
> > worse than third on the list.
> >
>
> That¹s the one where he has a range of different hair pieces on manikin
> heads on his desk isn¹t it?

Yep.

anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:

>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>> e

>>>>>>> . . .
>>>What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?

>>That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>descendants get money for that? (Should they?)

>I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)

The photograph, sure. But can his estate require that use of his image
for endorsements be licensed?

>>. . .

A Friend wrote:

>>. . .

>Alan Brady was never seen on The Dick Van Dyke Show until he suddenly
>was, and he was played by Carl Reiner. He'd made an earlier appearance
>as Brady during a Christmas episode, but he was dressed as Santa and
>wore a big white beard that was supposed to make him unrecognizable. I
>guess Carl recognized that the disguise didn't work, so he played an
>undisguised Brady in "Coast to Coast Big Mouth." If you're making a
>list of all-time best-ever TV comedy episodes, that one should be no
>worse than third on the list.

I agree. The toupe routine was priceless.

In article <srfhqd$3sf$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >>On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> s
> >>>>>>>> p
> >>>>>>>> o
> >>>>>>>> i
> >>>>>>>> l
> >>>>>>>> e
> >>>>>>>> r
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> s
> >>>>>>>> p
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> c
> >>>>>>>> e
>
> >>>>>>> . . .
>
> >>>What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>
> >>That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
> >>thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
> >>Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
> >>That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
> >>descendants get money for that? (Should they?)
>
> >I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)
>
> The photograph, sure. But can his estate require that use of his image
> for endorsements be licensed?

I don't think Geronimo has an estate looking out for his interests (no
hits anywhere), but since he's an historical personage, the estate
would have little recourse. It'd be like naming cars after Lincoln and
not having to pay anybody for it.

A Friend wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:

>> >>>>>>>> s
>> >>>>>>>> p
>> >>>>>>>> o
>> >>>>>>>> i
>> >>>>>>>> l
>> >>>>>>>> e
>> >>>>>>>> r
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> s
>> >>>>>>>> p
>> >>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>> c
>> >>>>>>>> e

>>>>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?

>>>>That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>>>thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>>>Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>>>That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>>>descendants get money for that? (Should they?)

>>>I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)

>>The photograph, sure. But can his estate require that use of his image
>>for endorsements be licensed?

>I don't think Geronimo has an estate looking out for his interests (no
>hits anywhere), but since he's an historical personage, the estate
>would have little recourse. It'd be like naming cars after Lincoln and
>not having to pay anybody for it.

Right, but we've discussed Humphrey Bogart and John Wayne endorsing
products decades after their deaths. How far back can this crap go?

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <481656397.663444830.961215.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>>> Alan Brady was never seen on The Dick Van Dyke Show until he suddenly
>>> was, and he was played by Carl Reiner. He'd made an earlier appearance
>>> as Brady during a Christmas episode, but he was dressed as Santa and
>>> wore a big white beard that was supposed to make him unrecognizable. I
>>> guess Carl recognized that the disguise didn't work, so he played an
>>> undisguised Brady in "Coast to Coast Big Mouth." If you're making a
>>> list of all-time best-ever TV comedy episodes, that one should be no
>>> worse than third on the list.
>>>
>>
>> That¹s the one where he has a range of different hair pieces on manikin
>> heads on his desk isn¹t it?
>
> Yep.
>

That’s just a brilliant sequence.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>> e
>
>>>>>>>> . . .
>
>>>> What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>
>>> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>> descendants get money for that? (Should they?)
>
>> I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)
>
> The photograph, sure. But can his estate require that use of his image
> for endorsements be licensed?
>
>>> . . .
>

No. Especially since they missed a century or two between his death and
now. I’m pretty sure both Bogart and Wayne had it set up at the time of
their demise. And even then I’m not really sure how they ever got away with
it.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <srfhqd$3sf$1@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-01-09 1:40 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>>> o
>>>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>>> l
>>>>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> s
>>>>>>>>>> p
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> c
>>>>>>>>>> e
>>
>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>
>>>>> What if it's just a still of the actor in a photograph as set dressing?
>>
>>>> That's a fun one, particularly if you apply it to non-actors. I'm
>>>> thinking here of the picture of Geronimo, a silent tribute to Nicholas
>>>> Colasanto (sp?) who played Coach in the first two seasons of Cheers.
>>>> That picture was up there for the rest of the series run. Do Geronimo's
>>>> descendants get money for that? (Should they?)
>>
>>> I am pretty sure Geronimo is public domain. :-)
>>
>> The photograph, sure. But can his estate require that use of his image
>> for endorsements be licensed?
>
>
> I don't think Geronimo has an estate looking out for his interests (no
> hits anywhere), but since he's an historical personage, the estate
> would have little recourse. It'd be like naming cars after Lincoln and
> not having to pay anybody for it.
>

It never occurred to me that Lincoln automobiles were named after Abraham
Lincoln. Now I have to look…

Well son of a gun. Ian’s Wikipedia article on the Lincoln motor company
starts out:

Lincoln Motor Company was founded in 1917 by Henry M. Leland, naming it
after Abraham Lincoln. In February 1922, the company was acquired by Ford,
its parent company to this day.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”