On 8/21/2022 1:12 PM, David Johnston wrote:
> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>> A Friend
>>>> BTR1701
>>>>
>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole
>>>> platinum-based economy,
>>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>
> Latinum, not platinum.
>
>>>
>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>> Enterprise carries
>>> gold for trading purposes.
>>
>> That doesn't really work either, as "scanning" technology in the
>> Trekverse is so advanced
>> that pretty much any ship could scan a bunch of asteroids until it
>> finds one a mile wide
>> that is 90% gold, and there goes your gold-based economy.
>
> Except there aren't any asteroids that are 90% gold.  Gold is a
> legitimately rare element in the universe at large.
>
"Rare" is a relative term. A single supernova can generate many times
the mass of the Earth in gold.

> Actually in Robert A. Heinlein's the Man Who Sold The Moon, one of the
> protagonists many scams was having the people who went to the Moon carry
> a small bag of diamond with the intent that they would come back and
> claim they found the diamonds there.  To his great alarm they come back
> with a second bag and say there actually are diamonds all over the
> ground there.  He immediately tells them to keep it secret because that
> would have a catastrophic impact on diamond prices and by extension the
> global economy.
>
> That put it on my list of SF stories with plot elements I just don't
> buy.  After all it doesn't matter how abundant a valuable commodity is
> in a far off place if the transportation costs to get there and come
> back vastly exceed the costs of just finding and extracting it locally.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <1079020054.682755557.441654.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>> On Aug 20, 2022 at 6:04:30 PM PDT, "Ubiquitous" <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>
>>>> One such hole, vaguely conceptualized during the last season of TNG,
>>>> was that the Federation economy was much more trapping and controlling
>>>> than first appearances might suggest, and acted as a fairly solid brick
>>>> wall for social mobility. The idea of limiting people into very narrow
>>>> career paths and choices is present (shown rather than specifically
>>>> explored) within the Picard show. In this series, the stoic captain has
>>>> grown old, and has retired from Starfleet to run his ancestral vineyard
>>>> in France. This is great for him, a man who has inherited this land,
>>>> but what would happen if someone else wanted a change in career and
>>>> wanted to make wine? How could one can they 'buy' a vineyard when money
>>>> no longer exists? Picard shows that inherited wealth is still
>>>> prevalent, as Picard explicitly owns the vineyard, and there is no
>>>> suggestion of a communist or sharing scheme. The Federation economy
>>>> only makes it harder for everyone else to achieve dreams unrelated to
>>>> what they were born into.
>>>
>>> I made this same point years ago in a STAR TREK discussion group. It was
>>> during the DS9 era when episodes were airing showing Sisko and Jake back
>>> on earth visiting his father's restaurant in New Orleans. It looked every
>>> bit like any restaurant you might currently find in New Orleans and I was
>>> like, "How does this work without money?"
>>
>> And they talked about Jake or Ben having transporter rations so they could
>> come visit a lot but not every day. Somehow they have money in every way
>> shape and form except the name.
>>
>>> Do people just wander in, order some food, eat it, and then get up and
>>> leave without paying for anything? And does Daddy Sisko just get supplies
>>> of meat, poultry, eggs, fish, flour, etc. from farmers who just drop it
>>> off, free of charge?
>>>
>>> With replicator technology, a lot of this becomes meaningless, but all
>>> throughout the TNG-era shows, we've been led to believe that replicator
>>> food isn't as good as real food, so one assumes the appeal of a restaurant
>>> like Daddy Sisko's is that it's using real ingredients, cooked by real\
>>> people, so the question then becomes how the hell does it all work?
>>
>> Voyager is the biggest offender here. They said so many horrible things
>> about replicators and the holo deck that we can't ever reconcile it. At
>> least if they’d crippled voyagers holo emitters in the pilot they could
>> rely on the fact that the system doesn't work right.
>>
>> Voyagers food replicators can't make crisp celery. So every planet they
>> pass, Neelix takes a runabout down into a gravity well and looks around
>> randomly for crisp greens to cook with.
>>
>> Apparently there's some intrinsic difference between transporter technology
>> and food replicator technology and holodeck technology. We know replicator
>> food replicators use a different kind of power than anything else does.
>>
>> But the systems are at least similar. If they can’t make crisp celery, are
>> you really going to ride in the transporter?
>
> Yep, I always wondered why the hell they'd put their bodies into a
> transporter if the damn thing couldn't replicate crisp celery.
>
>> But then the trolley went completely off the tracks when they made a
>> restaurant on the hoodeck and people would be in there for days eating and
>> drinking while there was a food shortage on the real ship and nobody ever
>> suggested people just go to the holodeck to eat. Does the holodeck subtract
>> the food from you like it does everything else when you exit? If so, and
>> you’ve been in there for three days, why don’t you die when you leave?
>
> But in one of the first eps of TNG, we see Wesley emerging from the
> holodeck in a ski outfit and the snow on his shoulders doesn't disappear
> when he walks out into the corridor.

I’ve always stopped the wardrobe department should be inside the hollow
deck. The idea that they have wardrobe and pop accoutrements available to
them elsewhere and that they then have to walk through the ship to the
holodeck is ridiculous. Also I’m sick and tired of over writing spellcheck
so if it decides it Hass to say Hollow deck I am going to let it.

>
>>> And then I pointed out exactly what that paragraph above described: How
>>> the hell does someone who, say, wants to be a chef and run their own
>>> restaurant actually *get* the restaurant? Do they just ask the government
>>> for a building with a fully-equipped kitchen and a completely furnished
>>> dining room and the government gives them one? That seems absurd, but
>>> otherwise, they either have to pay someone for a restaurant or pay someone
>>> to build them one. The only alternative is that the answer is, if you're
>>> not already a chef who owns a restaurant somehow-- like Picard's inherited
>>> vineyard-- then no, you can never become one.
>>>
>>>> The same issue is present with the morally ambiguous Captain Sisko's
>>>> New Orleans restaurant in DEEP SPACE 9. It's great for Sisko, but what
>>>> about someone else who wants to open up their own place in the same
>>>> area? The lack of money eliminates even the possibility of purchasing
>>>> an establishment. The only other option to rely on a barter system
>>>> which, effectively, is a primitive and far less measurable form of
>>>> currency. If one doesn't have the inherited wealth, what exactly can
>>>> they offer in exchange that the 'wealthy' (for want of a better word)
>>>> would not already have?
>>>>
>>>> The other issue that arises in a world without money is another double
>>>> edge sword. Removing monetary incentive removes a massive pressure on
>>>> people who are working endlessly to simply put food on the table. The
>>>> Federation of the 24th century has eradicated world hunger through the
>>>> widespread use of replicators, and providing shelter does not seem to
>>>> be an issue. This creates a problem, however. If people don't need to
>>>> work to live, who would do the unsavory jobs necessary for a society to
>>>> function?
>>>
>>> Yes, in the same DS9 restaurant episodes, there was a scene of Daddy
>>> Sisko ordering around the busboys and line cooks like drill sergeant,
>>> and I was like, "Why the hell would someone who lives in a society where
>>> there's no need to work to survive conceivably take a job in a restaurant
>>> doing back-breaking work like busing tables and mopping floors? Or
>>> cleaning toilets or any of the other things that one would think 24th-
>>> century technology could do but apparently doesn't?
>>>
>>>> STAR TREK has provided half an answer for this, using AI and automated
>>>> systems to carry out the majority of these functions, although this
>>>> does raise another issue regarding the ethics of creating a permanent
>>>> slave race.
>>
>> And then there's the tailor who makes better clothes than the automatic
>> systems can. There's just no way to defend that.
>
> Well, the computer's clothes don't come with a side order of spying,
> so...
>
>>> I've always hated the way TREK equates using technology to do rote,
>>> menial, and/or unpleasant tasks with 'creating a slave race'. Have I
>>> enslaved my toaster when I force it to make me toast in the morning?
>>>
>>> How is using a computer that controls cleaning apparatus to clean a
>>> bathroom become enslavement, but me currently forcing my computer to
>>> facilitate my postings to Usenet not enslavement?
>>>
>>>> The problem is only half solved, however, as through the
>>>> various shows it is shown that there are still actual people who are in
>>>> jobs such as bartending or waiting on tables-- but what's the point if
>>>> there is no wage and no opportunity to progress in this career? Not
>>>> everyone can be a business owner, so surely there must be ten
>>>> subservient roles needed to be fulfilled for every one privileged
>>>> owner, with no apparent way to escape this.
>>>>
>>>> The Federation economy is one of those science fiction concepts that
>>>> sounds, on paper, to be utopian. But the further the concept is
>>>> explored, the more holes can be found in its logic, and various
>>>> societal dark underbellies are shown.
>>>
>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>> participate.
>>>
>> Gold pressed Latinum.
>
> Yes, I typed 'latinum', but Siri apparently doesn't have an incorporated
> Trek dictionary so she helpfully changed it to 'platinum' for me.
>
>> I watched an episode the other night where somehow somebody had managed to
>> remove all the gold leaving just Latinum sludge behind. Even though gold is
>> intrinsically worthless to the Ferengi somehow Latinum without gold is
>> worthless as well. Also apparently gold pressed Latinum can’t be replicated
>> but it can be carried through a transporter. It’s the monetary equivalent
>> of crisp celery.
>
>>>> It may seem like a freeing
>>>> notion, to not be tied down by the necessity to make money each and
>>>> every day to survive. But strangely, by removing this, the Federation
>>>> has managed to find a way to solidify even further the massive class
>>>> divide that exists today. Ironically, it's impossible to eliminate
>>>> poverty by taking away all the money. It only seems like this is
>>>> possible because audiences are only shown the lives of the social
>>>> elites, such as Picard.
>

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 7:41 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>>> economy,
>>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>
>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>
>> Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>> replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed latinum
>> has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that won't
>> allow it to be replicated.
>>
> TOS Enterprise did not have replicators.
>
>

There’s an argument to be made that TAS did.

Also something Hass to be going on on a scale beyond making turkeys out of
synthetic meatloaf and sticking them in an oven for Kirk to be able to
instantly get a chicken sandwich and coffee out of a food slot

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <tdttn2$2ddrn$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/21/2022 7:41 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>>>> economy,
>>>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>>
>>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>
>>> Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>>> replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed latinum
>>> has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that won't
>>> allow it to be replicated.
>>>
>> TOS Enterprise did not have replicators.
>
> Well, they had something that hummed and produced their food out of
> nothing for them.
>

Sometimes. They seem to make the big stuff by hand and the little stuff by
magic. I’ve always wondered if the power was off in the galley how yeoman
rand made a pot of coffee that she could heat with a hand phaser.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <atropos-B2C484.11420721082022@news.giganews.com>, BTR1701
> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <tdttn2$2ddrn$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/21/2022 7:41 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>>>
>>>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>>
>>>> Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>>>> replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed
>>>> latinum
>>>> has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that
>>>> won't
>>>> allow it to be replicated.
>>>>
>>> TOS Enterprise did not have replicators.
>>
>> Well, they had something that hummed and produced their food out of
>> nothing for them.
>
>
> They once showed a snack being transported from the galley to the
> transporter room. They never showed food being created out of nothing.
>

Honestly we don’t know what they showed. We know from an incredibly limited
menu of fat floppy disks you can get stuff to appear almost instantaneously
behind an opaque automat door.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 12:25 PM, A Friend wrote:
>> In article <atropos-B2C484.11420721082022@news.giganews.com>, BTR1701
>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <tdttn2$2ddrn$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/21/2022 7:41 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>>>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>>>>> replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed
>>>>> latinum
>>>>> has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that
>>>>> won't
>>>>> allow it to be replicated.
>>>>>
>>>> TOS Enterprise did not have replicators.
>>>
>>> Well, they had something that hummed and produced their food out of
>>> nothing for them.
>>
>>
>> They once showed a snack being transported from the galley to the
>> transporter room. They never showed food being created out of nothing.
>
> And also showed Kirk speaking to the ship's cook about at least shaping
> the food to look like a turkey in one episode. ;)
>

Said chef being played by Gene Rodenberry!

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> A Friend
>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>
>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>> participate.
>>
>> Latinum, not platinum.
>
> Take it up with that bitch Siri.

Not to mention sending me some ice cream.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based economy,
>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>
>
>
> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>

Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he’s authorized to pay an
equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they’re still
using money.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 8/21/2022 4:36 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>
> I’ve always stopped the wardrobe department should be inside the hollow
> deck. The idea that they have wardrobe and pop accoutrements available to
> them elsewhere and that they then have to walk through the ship to the
> holodeck is ridiculous. Also I’m sick and tired of over writing spellcheck
> so if it decides it Hass to say Hollow deck I am going to let it.
>
And as an added benefit for the rest of us it makes it easier to point
and laugh. :D

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:36:29 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
wrote:

>BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>> A Friend
>>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>>> participate.
>>>
>>> Latinum, not platinum.
>>
>> Take it up with that bitch Siri.
>
>Not to mention sending me some ice cream.

I'm sorry but you don't get any ice cream till Phoenix cools down.
Till then it's only ice cream soup for you.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 4:36 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>
>> I’ve always stopped the wardrobe department should be inside the hollow
>> deck. The idea that they have wardrobe and pop accoutrements available to
>> them elsewhere and that they then have to walk through the ship to the
>> holodeck is ridiculous. Also I’m sick and tired of over writing spellcheck
>> so if it decides it Hass to say Hollow deck I am going to let it.
>>
> And as an added benefit for the rest of us it makes it easier to point
> and laugh. :D
>

But it’s a Holo victory

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:36:29 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>> A Friend
>>>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>>>> participate.
>>>>
>>>> Latinum, not platinum.
>>>
>>> Take it up with that bitch Siri.
>>
>> Not to mention sending me some ice cream.
>
> I'm sorry but you don't get any ice cream till Phoenix cools down.
> Till then it's only ice cream soup for you.
>

So never then?

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 8/21/2022 6:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 8/21/2022 4:36 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve always stopped the wardrobe department should be inside the hollow
>>> deck. The idea that they have wardrobe and pop accoutrements available to
>>> them elsewhere and that they then have to walk through the ship to the
>>> holodeck is ridiculous. Also I’m sick and tired of over writing spellcheck
>>> so if it decides it Hass to say Hollow deck I am going to let it.
>>>
>> And as an added benefit for the rest of us it makes it easier to point
>> and laugh. :D
>>
>
> But it’s a Holo victory
>
LOL. NOW it works.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 8/21/2022 6:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:36:29 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>>> A Friend
>>>>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>>>>> participate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Latinum, not platinum.
>>>>
>>>> Take it up with that bitch Siri.
>>>
>>> Not to mention sending me some ice cream.
>>
>> I'm sorry but you don't get any ice cream till Phoenix cools down.
>> Till then it's only ice cream soup for you.
>>
>
> So never then?
>
If your parents can't trust you to not get caught up on other teens
shenanigans when the police show up you don't deserve ice cream. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

In article
<2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> > In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> > <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
> >> economy,
> >> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
> >
> >
> >
> > We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
> > Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
> >
>
> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
> using money.

I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
gold. Oops.

On 2022-08-21 11:05 a.m., anim8rfsk wrote:
> As difficult as it is to imagine how the Federation economy works,

"It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of
capitalism." -- Mark Fisher

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 6:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>> On 8/21/2022 4:36 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I’ve always stopped the wardrobe department should be inside the hollow
>>>> deck. The idea that they have wardrobe and pop accoutrements available to
>>>> them elsewhere and that they then have to walk through the ship to the
>>>> holodeck is ridiculous. Also I’m sick and tired of over writing spellcheck
>>>> so if it decides it Hass to say Hollow deck I am going to let it.
>>>>
>>> And as an added benefit for the rest of us it makes it easier to point
>>> and laugh. :D
>>>
>>
>> But it’s a Holo victory
>>
> LOL. NOW it works.
>

:)

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 6:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:36:29 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>>>> A Friend
>>>>>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>>>>>> participate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Latinum, not platinum.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take it up with that bitch Siri.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention sending me some ice cream.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry but you don't get any ice cream till Phoenix cools down.
>>> Till then it's only ice cream soup for you.
>>>
>>
>> So never then?
>>
> If your parents can't trust you to not get caught up on other teens
> shenanigans when the police show up you don't deserve ice cream. :P
>

The very next time they trusted me…
Less than a handful of years later I went to a party on our block (our
house and that house were back to back so they were only a couple dozen
feet apart although you had to go around the long way to get there, at
least by car) and my parents told me that since I was just going to a party
on our block I didn’t have a curfew. I was just driving and there were
girls interested in smoochies, always a deadly combination. So I came
sauntering back home about 4 AM to find my terrified and frantic parents on
the phone with the police (again). I am like, what?

IT’S 4 O’CLOCK IN THE MORNING!
Yeah?
IT’S 4 O’CLOCK IN THE MORNING!!!
you said I didn’t have a curfew?
THAT MEANS BE HOME BY 11!!!
Um, This was an after school play cast party. It didn’t even start by 11.
WE THOUGHT YOU WERE DEAD!!!
I was 20 feet away?

Grounded for life.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 8/21/2022 8:57 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 8/21/2022 6:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:36:29 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <tdu3k1$1tgh$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>>>>> David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2022-08-21 5:56 a.m., Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>>>>> A Friend
>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>>>>>>>> economy, in which no small number of Federation people seemed to
>>>>>>>>>> participate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Latinum, not platinum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take it up with that bitch Siri.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention sending me some ice cream.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry but you don't get any ice cream till Phoenix cools down.
>>>> Till then it's only ice cream soup for you.
>>>>
>>>
>>> So never then?
>>>
>> If your parents can't trust you to not get caught up on other teens
>> shenanigans when the police show up you don't deserve ice cream. :P
>>
>
> The very next time they trusted me…
> Less than a handful of years later I went to a party on our block (our
> house and that house were back to back so they were only a couple dozen
> feet apart although you had to go around the long way to get there, at
> least by car) and my parents told me that since I was just going to a party
> on our block I didn’t have a curfew. I was just driving and there were
> girls interested in smoochies, always a deadly combination. So I came
> sauntering back home about 4 AM to find my terrified and frantic parents on
> the phone with the police (again). I am like, what?
>
> IT’S 4 O’CLOCK IN THE MORNING!
> Yeah?
> IT’S 4 O’CLOCK IN THE MORNING!!!
> you said I didn’t have a curfew?
> THAT MEANS BE HOME BY 11!!!
> Um, This was an after school play cast party. It didn’t even start by 11.
> WE THOUGHT YOU WERE DEAD!!!
> I was 20 feet away?
>
> Grounded for life.
>
I'm beginning to get an inkling of why women hate you....

:P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> In article
> <2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
>>>> economy,
>>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>>
>>
>> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
>> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
>> using money.
>
>
> I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
> gold. Oops

IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 2022-08-22 12:49 a.m., RichA wrote:
> On Sunday, 21 August 2022 at 01:36:29 UTC-4, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-08-21 12:02 a.m., RichA wrote:
>>> Men used to have a sense of pride at providing for their family,
>> Patriarchal shit. Best that that remain in the dustbin of history.
>
> Only to Nancy Boys who live with their parents until they are 40.

.... says a patriarchal nitwit who spends all his time foaming to Usenet,
probably from his mother's basement since he visibly has too much free
time to have a job.

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

In article
<1820992551.682849148.992516.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <2046459558.682814783.492512.anim8rfsk-cox.net@news.easynews.com>,
> > anim8rfsk <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> >>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole platinum-based
> >>>> economy,
> >>>> which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
> >>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Not that I recall. Kirk tells Childress that he¹s authorized to pay an
> >> equitable price for the lithium crystals. Which says to me they¹re still
> >> using money.
> >
> >
> > I just looked at the script for Mudd's Women, and Kirk doesn't mention
> > gold. Oops
>
> IIRC somebody does but only in the context of how Latinum is worth so much
> more than gold or diamonds. Might be Harry.

MUDD: Just three? You're sure?

RUTH: Yes. The miners are healthy and fairly young.

MUDD: Later, dear, later. Magda, did you get to your communications man?

MAGDA: The head miner is named Ben Childress. The others are Gossett
and Benton.

MUDD: And they've been there?

RUTH: Almost three years now, alone!

MUDD: Perfect. Perfect. Three of them and three lovely ladies has Harry
Mudd. And lithium crystals, my dear, are worth three hundred times
their weight in diamonds, thousands of times their weight in gold.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/4.htm

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 14:41:36 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>> economy,
>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>
>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>
>Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed latinum
>has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that won't
>allow it to be replicated.
>
Is there in fact a replicator in the original series? I don't think
so.

Similarly isn't there something in the replicator that requires the
actual atoms to exist before being reformed? Thus "Earl Grey Tea.
Hot" is much easier to replicate than 500 kg 24 kt gold bricks.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 14:41:36 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
>>>> economy,
>>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
>>>
>>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
>>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
>>
>>Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
>>replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed latinum
>>has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that won't
>>allow it to be replicated.
>>
>Is there in fact a replicator in the original series? I don't think
>so.
>
>Similarly isn't there something in the replicator that requires the
>actual atoms to exist before being reformed? Thus "Earl Grey Tea.
>Hot" is much easier to replicate than 500 kg 24 kt gold bricks.

You mean it can't transmute lead into gold? Do we know this?

I have a vague recollection that the replicators on DS9 made food from
some sort of sludge, probably reclaiming human and food waste. Of course
these replicators were Cardassian technology and not Federation
technology. On one episode they became weapons!

And a Star Trek episode in which they put dishes back into the machine
for reclamation.

In article <te0f1b$2n8q9$5@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
> >On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 14:41:36 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Aug 21, 2022 at 4:19:32 AM PDT, "A Friend" <nope@noway.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <hI-cnRnzTd2xA5z-nZ2dnZfqnPrNnZ2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> >>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This doesn't even get into the Ferengi and their whole latinum-based
> >>>> economy,
> >>>> in which no small number of Federation people seemed to participate.
> >>>
> >>> We know from Kirk's dialogue in Mudd's Women (I think) that the
> >>> Enterprise carries gold for trading purposes.
> >>
> >>Hell, the Enterprise doesn't need to carry gold. The Enterprise could just
> >>replicate it as needed. We were told on DS9 that's why gold-pressed latinum
> >>has value-- because there's something about its atomic structure that won't
> >>allow it to be replicated.
> >>
> >Is there in fact a replicator in the original series? I don't think
> >so.
> >
> >Similarly isn't there something in the replicator that requires the
> >actual atoms to exist before being reformed? Thus "Earl Grey Tea.
> >Hot" is much easier to replicate than 500 kg 24 kt gold bricks.
>
> You mean it can't transmute lead into gold? Do we know this?
>
> I have a vague recollection that the replicators on DS9 made food from
> some sort of sludge, probably reclaiming human and food waste.

The DS9 sludge is people!! It's people, I tell you!! The sludge is
people!!