On 9/11/2022 4:40 PM, Rhino wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 7:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 2:39 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-11 4:47 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>> On 9/11/2022 10:56 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>> On 2022-09-11 1:27 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries
>>>>>>>>>> without the
>>>>>>>>>> communism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't
>>>>>>>>> know; I
>>>>>>>>> haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about
>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>>>>>>>> actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>>>>>>>> other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is
>>>>>>>> in no
>>>>>>>> way like communist socialism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
>>>>>>> political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's one of the biggest problems with "socialism": the word has
>>>>> taken on so many meanings that it's nearly impossible discuss it
>>>>> because each person in the conversation has a different
>>>>> understanding of what socialism actually is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread.
>>>>> However, when "people" like "kensi" talk about "socialism" while
>>>>> wanting to smash   capitalism, it's very clear to me that "she" (or
>>>>> soulmates like AOC) are cheerleading for the "socialism" that was
>>>>> practiced in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North Korea and Venezuela.
>>>>
>>>> That's not what I'm talking about.
>>
>> Social programs paid for by the government. Education, health care and
>> all those services the republicans want to do away with.
>
> I was reading conservative media in the US for years and I didn't see
> anything that suggested any serious percentage of Republicans were
> pushing for that. A few libertarians may have wanted to privatize some
> functions normally done by the government but I never had the sense that
> this was anything like a groundswell. For instance, I remember some
> people thinking that the FEDERAL department of education was a very bad
> idea and that education should revert to being ENTIRELY a state-level
> concern as it has been before Jimmy Carter created the Department of
> Education. But that's not the same as ELIMINATING publicly funded
> education by a long shot.

I'm talking about higher education, whether university or vocational
programs. Though the Dept of Education has also cut funding for preK-12
the last decades or so.

On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>> take.
>>>>
>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>
>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>
>> We're not.
>
> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
>
>> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>> school bathrooms, etc.)
>
> Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
> bathroom and go a-rapin'.

Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.

In article <tfmbhq$1dm6$2@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >
> >>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
> >>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
> >>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
> >>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
> >>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
> >>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
> >>>>> take.
> >>>>
> >>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
> >>>
> >>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
> >>> every manner of human degradation?
> >>
> >> We're not.
> >
> > Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
> >
> >> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
> >> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
> >> school bathrooms, etc.)
> >
> > Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
> > bathroom and go a-rapin'.
>
> Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
> Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.

The particular boy who raped the girl in Virginia was reportedly wearing
a dress or a skirt.

In article <tfma93$126q$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-11 11:44 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
> >
> >>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
> >>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
> >>> when "people" like "kensi"
> >>
> >> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
> >
> > LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
> >
> > What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky? Gonna sit in the dark
> > and masturbate furiously over it or something?

> You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
> virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
> memory of Gene Roddenberry.
>
> Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.

Oh no! The Usenet rando is calling me names again. I suppose if I was
six years old that might really be concerning.

On 9/11/2022 9:57 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfmbhq$1dm6$2@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>>>> take.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>>>
>>>> We're not.
>>>
>>> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
>>>
>>>> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>>>> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>>>> school bathrooms, etc.)
>>>
>>> Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
>>> bathroom and go a-rapin'.
>>
>> Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
>> Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.
>
> The particular boy who raped the girl in Virginia was reportedly wearing
> a dress or a skirt.
>
Was the girl?

In article <tfmeui$1fo4$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 9/11/2022 9:57 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tfmbhq$1dm6$2@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> >>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
> >>>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
> >>>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
> >>>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
> >>>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
> >>>>>>> take.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
> >>>>> every manner of human degradation?
> >>>>
> >>>> We're not.
> >>>
> >>> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
> >>>
> >>>> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
> >>>> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
> >>>> school bathrooms, etc.)
> >>>
> >>> Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
> >>> bathroom and go a-rapin'.
> >>
> >> Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
> >> Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.
> >
> > The particular boy who raped the girl in Virginia was reportedly wearing
> > a dress or a skirt.
> >
> Was the girl?

Wasn't reported.

On Sep 11, 2022 at 8:13:13 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com>
wrote:

> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>> par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
> hardship.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtxx07bzesokwr0/Capitalism_Failed.png?dl=0

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

>>>>>"Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>>front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>>refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>>the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>>way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>>offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>>take.

>>>>What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

>>>Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>>every manner of human degradation?

>>We're not.

>Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.

>>You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>>innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>>school bathrooms, etc.)

>Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
>bathroom and go a-rapin'.

Isn't this the story about the father of one of the victims was arrested
for trying to speak out at a school board meeting to counter the
superintendant's false public report covering his own ass and the elected
prosecutor, a political ally of the school board, personally prosecuted
him for disorderly conduct and won a conviction?

>https://wjla.com/amp/features/i-team/teen-suspect-found-guilty-in-loudoun
>-county-public-school-stone-bridge-high-bathroom-assault
>
>And, of course, the school admin then proceeds to cover it up because a
>boy in dress raping a girl in the girl's bathroom is bad for the Agenda.
>
>> Nobody is plotting against the children...
>
>Weird, then, that when the L.A. City Council met last week to vote to
>clear out the vagrant encampments around schools (after several students
>have been assaulted by vagrants while trying to get into their schools
>and others have come down with medieval diseases like trench fever after
>having been exposed while jumping over turds in the encampments that
>surround their schools), the 'progressive' activists slithered out of
>the weeds to stage a screaming protest and tried to shut down the
>council meeting so a vote could not be taken. They sure as shit seemed
>pretty invested in making sure kids continue to be exposed to filth and
>degradation on a daily basis.

On 9/11/2022 1:23 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Sep 11, 2022 at 10:51:54 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>> On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> . . .
>>>
>>>>> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>>>>> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>>>>> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>>>>> hardship.
>>>
>>>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>> communism.
>>>
>>> No they aren't. Think about the definitions you learned in school.
>>>
>>> Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned by those in business
>>> to make a profit.
>>>
>>> Socialism: A transition into Communism in which there is more and more
>>> centralized control of the eocnomy, the means of production are commonly
>>> owned or owned outright by the state and won't be sold off to private
>>> businesses. Socialism can include a number of transitional systems.
>>>
>>> Communism:
>>
>> I always liked “a communist is a socialist with a gun“
>
> Collectivism: Ideas so awesome they have to be mandatory, and always seem to
> be just one execution away from utopia.

Whilst you side with the dystopian assholes. Are you finally showing
self awareness?

On 9/11/2022 10:08 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>>> par-broiling in
>>>> that tent that day?
>>>
>>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>>
>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
>>>> in front
>>>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>> refusing to allow
>>>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have
>>>> to play
>>>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>>>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent
>>>> ex-cons is
>>>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>>>
>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>
>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>> every
>> manner of human degradation?
>
> We're not. You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
> school bathrooms, etc.) but that's just your paranoia. Nobody is
> plotting against the children ... unless you are, and you're projecting.

And yet, for some queer reason, they never bothered to mention Larry
Craig in bathrooms.

On 9/11/2022 10:31 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 4:26 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>> And yet when you ask them what they'd do differently than Stalin, Mao,
>> Pol Pot or whoever, they never have an answer.
>
> Worker-owned business co-ops. Decentralized governance. No despotic
> dictator. No centrally-planned command economy.

I wonder if Rhino the uber idiot could spell "whomever" if "they" would
still "never have an answer."

On 9/11/2022 10:44 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>
>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
>>> when "people" like "kensi"
>>
>> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
>
> LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
>
> What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky? Gonna sit in the dark
> and masturbate furiously over it or something?

Pot calling the kettle black noted.

On 9/11/2022 10:49 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 11:44 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>   kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>>
>>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
>>>> when "people" like "kensi"
>>>
>>> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
>>
>> LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
>>
>> What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky?
> You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
> virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
> memory of Gene Roddenberry.
>
> Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.

Are you unable to type a Theta symbol then because ASCII is too
difficult for you?

On 9/11/2022 10:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>> take.
>>>>
>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>
>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>
>> We're not.
>
> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.

Can you provide the names of some of these shows or should your comment
be dismissed as horseshit per usual?

On 9/11/2022 11:57 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfmbhq$1dm6$2@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>>>> take.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>>>
>>>> We're not.
>>>
>>> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
>>>
>>>> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>>>> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>>>> school bathrooms, etc.)
>>>
>>> Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
>>> bathroom and go a-rapin'.
>>
>> Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
>> Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.
>
> The particular boy who raped the girl in Virginia was reportedly wearing
> a dress or a skirt.

Cite?

On 9/11/2022 11:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfma93$126q$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-11 11:44 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
>>>>> when "people" like "kensi"
>>>>
>>>> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
>>>
>>> LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
>>>
>>> What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky? Gonna sit in the dark
>>> and masturbate furiously over it or something?
>
>> You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
>> virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
>> memory of Gene Roddenberry.
>>
>> Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.
>
> Oh no! The Usenet rando is calling me names again. I suppose if I was
> six years old that might really be concerning.

Is he or she a "seamus sockpuppet" or a "Usenet rando"? I think the RAT
dipshit brigade should try and keep it's story straight.

On 2022-09-12 12:09 AM, suzeeq wrote:
> On 9/11/2022 4:40 PM, Rhino wrote:
>> On 2022-09-11 7:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>> On 9/11/2022 2:39 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-11 4:47 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>>> On 9/11/2022 10:56 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>> On 2022-09-11 1:27 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>>>>>>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> . . .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries
>>>>>>>>>>> without the
>>>>>>>>>>> communism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've heard it said by people that have lived in those
>>>>>>>>>> countries that
>>>>>>>>>> they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't
>>>>>>>>>> know; I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about
>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> other social services. It's called democratic socialism which
>>>>>>>>> is in no
>>>>>>>>> way like communist socialism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
>>>>>>>> political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's one of the biggest problems with "socialism": the word has
>>>>>> taken on so many meanings that it's nearly impossible discuss it
>>>>>> because each person in the conversation has a different
>>>>>> understanding of what socialism actually is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>>>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread.
>>>>>> However, when "people" like "kensi" talk about "socialism" while
>>>>>> wanting to smash   capitalism, it's very clear to me that "she"
>>>>>> (or soulmates like AOC) are cheerleading for the "socialism" that
>>>>>> was practiced in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North Korea and
>>>>>> Venezuela.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not what I'm talking about.
>>>
>>> Social programs paid for by the government. Education, health care
>>> and all those services the republicans want to do away with.
>>
>> I was reading conservative media in the US for years and I didn't see
>> anything that suggested any serious percentage of Republicans were
>> pushing for that. A few libertarians may have wanted to privatize some
>> functions normally done by the government but I never had the sense
>> that this was anything like a groundswell. For instance, I remember
>> some people thinking that the FEDERAL department of education was a
>> very bad idea and that education should revert to being ENTIRELY a
>> state-level concern as it has been before Jimmy Carter created the
>> Department of Education. But that's not the same as ELIMINATING
>> publicly funded education by a long shot.
>
> I'm talking about higher education, whether university or vocational
> programs. Though the Dept of Education has also cut funding for preK-12
> the last decades or so.

I'd be very curious to see an actual article about a Republican who
proposed doing away with public funding of university and vocational
programs. I've never seen anything like that in the articles I've read
on conservative sites.

--
Rhino

On 2022-09-11 11:23 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
>> when "people" like "kensi"
>
> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
>
>> talk about "socialism" while wanting to smash capitalism, it's very
>> clear to me that "she" (or soulmates like AOC) are cheerleading for the
>> "socialism" that was practiced in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>> > Korea and Venezuela.
>
> Nope. Try New Harmony:
>
> https://www.workers.org/2018/09/38915/

New Harmony was one of the communities I studied so I'm quite familiar
with it. I read a biography of Robert Owen as well.
>
> From 1825 to 1827, New Harmony [in Indiana], now in the hands of Owen,
> attracted many of the most idealistic and inventive reformers of the
> day, as well as women and men of the natural sciences. In addition, many
> jobless people found their way there, inspired by public lectures Owen
> gave in many Eastern cities.
>
> The principles of the community were explained as follows: “Within the
> community all work was to be equal. One was to receive that which was
> necessary to him. The teachers’ work was to be on the same footing with
> the laborer, the farmer the equal of either. All were to perform to the
> best of their ability and receive the same compensation.” (“The New
> Harmony Story” by Don Blair)
>
> In its few short years of existence, the communist society at New
> Harmony broke new ground. It introduced into the United States the first
> kindergarten, the first infant school, the first trade school, the first
> free public school system, the first women’s club, the first free
> library, the first civic dramatic club, and it was the seat of the first
> geological survey.
> By your own admission, this experiment lasted three years. If it was so
great, why did it break up/fail? It's been 40 years since I last looked
at it but I'm pretty sure it failed of its own accord, not because it
was destroyed by rapacious capitalists or whatever.

> The progressive achievements of this little utopian colony inevitably
> became the basis for important demands taken up later by the
> working-class movement. The bosses are still fighting tooth and nail
> against such benefits and cutting them back wherever they can. To the
> extent that they are today more generally available to the workers, it
> is owing to bitter class battles across the country. How interesting
> that what were at that time considered utopian have now become very
> practical and indeed necessary.
>
> Long after it ceased to be a communist colony, New Harmony was a social
> and cultural oasis. It was to become a center of both the abolitionist
> and the women’s movements.
>
Like Marx's bullshit, it offered much pie in the sky but delivered
precious little of value.

>> Until then, anyone talking of smashing capitalism and implementing
>> "socialism" is trying to sell snake oil and needs to be actively
>> resisted.
>
> Bring it, kOOk.
>
What do you think my followups are, idiot?

--
Rhino

On 2022-09-11 11:31 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 4:26 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>> And yet when you ask them what they'd do differently than Stalin, Mao,
>> Pol Pot or whoever, they never have an answer.
>
> Worker-owned business co-ops. Decentralized governance. No despotic
> dictator. No centrally-planned command economy.
>
Of course you will have had to kill or imprison everyone with capitalist
sympathies or leanings first....

--
Rhino

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>On 2022-09-11 11:31 PM, kensi wrote:
>>On 2022-09-11 4:26 p.m., Rhino wrote:

>>>And yet when you ask them what they'd do differently than Stalin, Mao,
>>>Pol Pot or whoever, they never have an answer.

>>Worker-owned business co-ops. Decentralized governance. No despotic
>>dictator. No centrally-planned command economy.

>Of course you will have had to kill or imprison everyone with capitalist
>sympathies or leanings first....

The ineptly stupid seamus sock is too ignorant to understand that
free markets and capitalism are part of the classical liberal philosophy.
Adam Smith was one of those liberals arguing to break the power the
Guilds had on the marketplace, as entry into any trade was heavily
restricted.

But stupid people have always been entirely ignorant as to what
liberalism truly means as opposed to what it's been perverted into.

On 2022-09-11 11:59 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>> take.
>>>>
>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>
>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>
>> We're not.
>
> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
Where is the degradation there?

[Snip unsanitary conditions at encampments -- this is what happens if
you deny a swath of the population access to the tools of basic hygiene,
dummkopf. And then you would castigate and punish this population for
what was done *to* them. Meanwhile the law requires more humane
treatment of pets and stray animals than it does unhoused human beings!]

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

On 2022-09-12 9:25 a.m., Rhino wrote:
> I'd be very curious to see an actual article about a Republican who
> proposed doing away with public funding of university and vocational
> programs. I've never seen anything like that in the articles I've read
> on conservative sites.
You expect their own propaganda to make them look bad?

https://www.intelligent.com/27-percent-of-republicans-want-to-defund-public-colleges/

Meanwhile I heard somewhere that Canada just elected some Pinochet-like
guy or something like that. I'll bet you voted for him, too. If there's
any justice you'll promptly slip up on some picayune point of doctrine
and get offered a free helicopter ride for your troubles. :P

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

On 2022-09-12 9:30 a.m., Rhino wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 11:23 PM, kensi wrote:
>> In its few short years of existence, the communist society at New
>> Harmony broke new ground. It introduced into the United States the
>> first kindergarten, the first infant school, the first trade school,
>> the first free public school system, the first women’s club, the first
>> free library, the first civic dramatic club, and it was the seat of
>> the first geological survey.
>>
>> The progressive achievements of this little utopian colony inevitably
>> became the basis for important demands taken up later by the
>> working-class movement. The bosses are still fighting tooth and nail
>> against such benefits and cutting them back wherever they can. To the
>> extent that they are today more generally available to the workers, it
>> is owing to bitter class battles across the country. How interesting
>> that what were at that time considered utopian have now become very
>> practical and indeed necessary.
>>
>> Long after it ceased to be a communist colony, New Harmony was a
>> social and cultural oasis. It was to become a center of both the
>> abolitionist and the women’s movements.
>
> Like Marx's bullshit, it offered much pie in the sky but delivered
> precious little of value.

Your admission to not valuing public schools, trade schools, libraries,
drama clubs, women's clubs and the women's movement, the abolition of
slavery(!), and geological surveys, and by extension to being classist,
misogynist, and racist, is noted and logged.

(We, of course, already knew these things about you. But there is much
value in having a signed confession we can refer back to at any later
time when you might try to deny being one or more of those things.)

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

On 2022-09-12 12:59 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>> You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
>> virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
>> memory of Gene Roddenberry.
>>
>> Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.
>
> Oh no! The Usenet rando is calling me names again. I suppose if I was
> six years old that might really be concerning.

... says the kOok who routinely dismisses a debate opponent as a "Usenet
rando" or "sockpuppet".

SPNAK!

*snicker*

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

In article <tfoq6b$18mv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-11 11:59 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> kensi <kkensington01-NOSPAM@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> >
> >>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
> >>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
> >>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
> >>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
> >>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
> >>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
> >>>>> take.
> >>>>
> >>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
> >>>
> >>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
> >>> every manner of human degradation?
> >>
> >> We're not.
> >
> > Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
> Where is the degradation there?
>
> [Snip unsanitary conditions at encampments -- this is what happens if
> you deny a swath of the population access to the tools of basic hygiene,
> dummkopf.

Just like when the city provided dumpsters for their trash and the
vagrants ignored them and continued to throw their trash on the ground,
when the city provided the vagrants with "tools of basic hygiene", they
still shit on the sidewalk.

L.A. put portable toilets and washrooms all around the encampments in
Venice-- in addition to the facilities already on the beach-- and the
streets are still covered in piss and shit. And the washrooms are used
for female vagrants to turn the tricks they're forced into by the local
gangs.

Human sex trafficking is just one more crime that goes unenforced and
tolerated (and thereby encouraged) by our entirely 'progressive'
Democrat city government.