After Democrats accused Florida GOP Governor Ron DeSantis of acting illegally
in transporting 50 illegal immigrants to the wealthy leftist enclave of
Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, a leading conservative law professor
compared the actions of DeSantis to the massive number of immigrants
President Biden has transported throughout the country.

Some of the Democrats making the scurrilous charges against DeSantis included
California Governor Gavin Newsom, who urged the Department of Justice to open
a criminal investigation and hyperventilated that DeSantis' potentially
constituted "kidnapping" as well as Florida State Representative Fentrice
Driskell, who said DeSantis violated state statute.

"What they're arguing here is that this is an illegal transport of migrants.
If that was the case, then Joe Biden would be the biggest coyote ever,"
George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley countered on Fox
News, adding, "I mean, he's transferring thousands of people across the
country."

With regard to immigration, the term "coyote" is used to indicate people who
smuggle illegal immigrants across the border.

"I don't see a case unless they can establish some systemic coercion or
fraud," Turley said. "There's really not a federal crime here. They can find
individual cases that might be somehow actionable, but what the state has
said is that they have expressed consent for these flights."

Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
wanted to leave the border area from where they left.

"There are rational reasons why someone would want to leave the border area,
which has been -- just has this influx of undocumented migrants, and go to
areas that might have better employment possibilities or better levels of
support," he asserted. "Also, public interest organizations transfer
migrants. All of them are saying, is they need to, and need to establish that
this is done with their consent, but there are rational reasons why migrants
would want to go to New York or Chicago and away from these border areas."

Turley's argument was buttressed by senior Florida state officials.

"So the groups in Texas that we've identified, the majority if not all of the
individuals that originated in Texas and ended up on the flight to Martha's
Vineyard were indeed homeless, hungry, sleeping outside in parking lots," the
officials told reporters. "Many have been in a shelter at some point
previously and had been kicked out, did not have a place to go, and
essentially were wandering homeless along the border."

"These were homeless people that were in a rough situation and undoubtedly
had their circumstance improved. In fact, several have already communicated
their thanks for the opportunity to go to the sanctuary state," they
concluded.

--
Let's go Brandon!

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
wrote:

>Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>wanted to leave the border area from where they left.

The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
first place.

They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
from which they came.

>"There are rational reasons why someone would want to leave the border area,
>which has been -- just has this influx of undocumented migrants, and go to
>areas that might have better employment possibilities or better levels of
>support," he asserted. "Also, public interest organizations transfer
>migrants. All of them are saying, is they need to, and need to establish that
>this is done with their consent, but there are rational reasons why migrants
>would want to go to New York or Chicago and away from these border areas."
>
>Turley's argument was buttressed by senior Florida state officials.
>
>"So the groups in Texas that we've identified, the majority if not all of the
>individuals that originated in Texas and ended up on the flight to Martha's
>Vineyard were indeed homeless, hungry, sleeping outside in parking lots," the
>officials told reporters. "Many have been in a shelter at some point
>previously and had been kicked out, did not have a place to go, and
>essentially were wandering homeless along the border."
>
>"These were homeless people that were in a rough situation and undoubtedly
>had their circumstance improved. In fact, several have already communicated
>their thanks for the opportunity to go to the sanctuary state," they
>concluded.
>
To me my question is how state governors declaring a "sanctuary state"
are any better than the January 6 protesters since it is well
established in US law that immigration and border control are a
FEDERAL not a STATE responsibility and that state officials have no
more right to legislate in areas of federal responsibility than the
January 6 protesters did.

Both are intentionally and egregiously in violation of the law of the
land and attempting to overthrow the government (e.g. the federal
government) that had the right to legislate in this area.

How are declarations of sanctuary states not a deliberate rising
against the federal government's legislative rights in this area?

On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>> wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>
> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> first place.
>
> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
> from which they came.

They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
without talking to an immigration official.
>

In article <puvdkhdoprcvg7boj0ov3v1p8aa2t9f607@4ax.com>,
The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
> >wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>
> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> first place.
>
> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
> from which they came.
>
> > "There are rational reasons why someone would want to leave the border area,
> > which has been -- just has this influx of undocumented migrants, and go to
> > areas that might have better employment possibilities or better levels of
> > support," he asserted. "Also, public interest organizations transfer
> > migrants. All of them are saying, is they need to, and need to establish
> > that this is done with their consent, but there are rational reasons why
> > migrants would want to go to New York or Chicago and away from these
> > border areas."
> >
> > Turley's argument was buttressed by senior Florida state officials.
> >
> > "So the groups in Texas that we've identified, the majority if not all of
> > the individuals that originated in Texas and ended up on the flight to
> > Martha's Vineyard were indeed homeless, hungry, sleeping outside in
> > parking lots," the officials told reporters. "Many have been in a shelter
> > at some point previously and had been kicked out, did not have a place
> > to go, and essentially were wandering homeless along the border."
> >
> > "These were homeless people that were in a rough situation and undoubtedly
> > had their circumstance improved. In fact, several have already communicated
> > their thanks for the opportunity to go to the sanctuary state," they
> > concluded.
> >
> To me my question is how state governors declaring a "sanctuary state"
> are any better than the January 6 protesters since it is well
> established in US law that immigration and border control are a
> FEDERAL not a STATE responsibility and that state officials have no
> more right to legislate in areas of federal responsibility than the
> January 6 protesters did.

Conversely, if the Democrats every get their way and pass gun
confiscation legislation, look for them to have hysterical meltdowns
over any city, county, or state that declares itself a 'sanctuary' from
federal gun laws. The same people who think it's perfectly fine for
local government to facilitate the violation of federal immigration law
will get the vapors and run for the fainting couch if local government
facilitates the breaking of federal gun laws.

> How are declarations of sanctuary states not a deliberate rising
> against the federal government's legislative rights in this area?

They claim they're not actively obstructing federal law, they're just
not helping to enforce it, which they have no legal obligation to do.
They're basically saying to the feds, "If you want to enforce federal
law, you go right ahead, but we don't have to help you do it."

Of course they won't tolerate this attitude with regard to guns. If the
lefties pass a federal ban on AR-15s, they'll expect local cops who find
someone with an AR to arrest him, not ignore it, even though they're the
ones who have decreed that it's perfectly fine for local cops to ignore
violations of federal law with regard to immigration.

If this ever becomes an issue, expect leftist talking heads and pols to
opine that somehow immigration is the *only* federal issue where it's
legal for state and local governments to decline to help with
enforcement; that the Constitution requires the locals to enforce every
federal law *except* immigration law.

In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
> >> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
> >
> > The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> > the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> > first place.
> >
> > They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
> > from which they came.
>
> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
> without talking to an immigration official.

But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
to be by the courts-- they know that when the hearing happens, they'll
be deported, so their motivation is to disappear and hope no one ever
finds them. And what better way to do that than to get on a bus and go
thousands of miles to the other side of the country?

On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>
>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>> first place.
>>>
>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>> from which they came.
>>
>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>> without talking to an immigration official.
>
> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found

Even from Venezuala?

> to be by the courts-- they know that when the hearing happens, they'll
> be deported, so their motivation is to disappear and hope no one ever
> finds them. And what better way to do that than to get on a bus and go
> thousands of miles to the other side of the country?
>
They weren't doing it with that intention. They were told they would
have jobs, a place to live, and help with paperwork.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

>>>>Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.

>>>The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>first place.

>>>They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>from which they came.

>>They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>without talking to an immigration official.

>But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>to be by the courts--

I'm calling bullshit.

It's fraud only if the asylum seeker makes false statements. If the
attrocities committed against the applicant are stated as true facts in the
narrative portion of the application, fraud has not been committed even
though the claims made truthfully don't qualify the applicant for
asylum status.

You know what fraud is.

>they know that when the hearing happens, they'll be deported, so their
>motivation is to disappear and hope no one ever finds them. And what
>better way to do that than to get on a bus and go thousands of miles to
>the other side of the country?

In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
> >>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
> >>>
> >>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> >>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> >>> first place.
> >>>
> >>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
> >>> from which they came.
> >>
> >> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
> >> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
> >> without talking to an immigration official.
> >
> > But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>
> Even from Venezuala?

The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?

On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>> first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>
>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>
>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>
>> Even from Venezuala?
>
> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?

They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...

In article <D0F1L.251450$51Rb.81037@fx45.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
> >>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> >>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> >>>>> first place.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
> >>>>> from which they came.
> >>>>
> >>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
> >>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
> >>>> without talking to an immigration official.
> >>>
> >>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
> >>
> >> Even from Venezuala?
> >
> > The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
> > socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
> > Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
> > up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>
> They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
> politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...

They're being told by activist groups and their own governments to
invoke the magic word 'asylum' whether it's true or not because it will
force the U.S. government to let them in when they would otherwise be
deported.

Sounds like fraud to me.

On 10/12/2022 12:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>> first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>
>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>
>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>
>> Even from Venezuala?
>
> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>
I wonder how many of the citizens of Venezuela were actually able to
vote in elections? Unless it was like the election in eastern Ukraine
where they voted to become part of Russia at gunpoint.

On 10/12/2022 4:15 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <D0F1L.251450$51Rb.81037@fx45.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>>>> first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>>>
>>>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>>>
>>>> Even from Venezuala?
>>>
>>> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
>>> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
>>> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
>>> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>>
>> They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
>> politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...
>
> They're being told by activist groups and their own governments to
> invoke the magic word 'asylum' whether it's true or not because it will
> force the U.S. government to let them in when they would otherwise be
> deported.
>
> Sounds like fraud to me.

Like you say, it's a "magic word" ...i.e., a formalism that nobody
thinks is fooling anybody.

suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:

>>>Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>>>wanted to leave the border area from where they left.

>>The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>first place.

>>They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>from which they came.

>They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>without talking to an immigration official.

Where do you think they were processed?

I have no idea what a tiny border patrol station does. Processing really
should include collecting a full set of fingerprints and photographs,
and these should be run through criminal databases. Someone with an
arrest record in the United States shouldn't be treated like a
legitimate asylum seeker but deported for valid reasons. If they've
previously entered the United States unlawfully, then there's no reason
to treat them like valid asylum seekers.

Issue them SSNs for work, which they should be eligible for, only after
positive identification.

If they are subsequently arrested in the United States, then they've
already been positively identified and police should have no trouble
figuring out whom they've arrested.

In article <B%F1L.86668$1Ly7.28881@fx34.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 10/12/2022 4:15 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <D0F1L.251450$51Rb.81037@fx45.iad>,
> > moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
> >>>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
> >>>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
> >>>>>>> first place.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the
> >>>>>>> border from which they came.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed
> >>>>>> and were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day
> >>>>>> before without talking to an immigration official.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
> >>>>
> >>>> Even from Venezuala?
> >>>
> >>> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
> >>> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
> >>> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
> >>> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
> >>
> >> They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
> >> politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...
> >
> > They're being told by activist groups and their own governments to
> > invoke the magic word 'asylum' whether it's true or not because it will
> > force the U.S. government to let them in when they would otherwise be
> > deported.
> >
> > Sounds like fraud to me.
>
> Like you say, it's a "magic word" ...i.e., a formalism that nobody
> thinks is fooling anybody.

A bad fraudster is still a fraudster.

On 10/12/2022 1:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <puvdkhdoprcvg7boj0ov3v1p8aa2t9f607@4ax.com>,
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>>> wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>
>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>> first place.
>>
>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>> from which they came.
>>
>>> "There are rational reasons why someone would want to leave the border area,
>>> which has been -- just has this influx of undocumented migrants, and go to
>>> areas that might have better employment possibilities or better levels of
>>> support," he asserted. "Also, public interest organizations transfer
>>> migrants. All of them are saying, is they need to, and need to establish
>>> that this is done with their consent, but there are rational reasons why
>>> migrants would want to go to New York or Chicago and away from these
>>> border areas."
>>>
>>> Turley's argument was buttressed by senior Florida state officials.
>>>
>>> "So the groups in Texas that we've identified, the majority if not all of
>>> the individuals that originated in Texas and ended up on the flight to
>>> Martha's Vineyard were indeed homeless, hungry, sleeping outside in
>>> parking lots," the officials told reporters. "Many have been in a shelter
>>> at some point previously and had been kicked out, did not have a place
>>> to go, and essentially were wandering homeless along the border."
>>>
>>> "These were homeless people that were in a rough situation and undoubtedly
>>> had their circumstance improved. In fact, several have already communicated
>>> their thanks for the opportunity to go to the sanctuary state," they
>>> concluded.
>>>
>> To me my question is how state governors declaring a "sanctuary state"
>> are any better than the January 6 protesters since it is well
>> established in US law that immigration and border control are a
>> FEDERAL not a STATE responsibility and that state officials have no
>> more right to legislate in areas of federal responsibility than the
>> January 6 protesters did.
>
> Conversely, if the Democrats every get their way

Stop masturbating while you post.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 13:28:01 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 10/12/2022 12:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>>> first place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>>
>>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>>
>>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>>
>>> Even from Venezuala?
>>
>> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
>> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
>> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
>> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>>
>I wonder how many of the citizens of Venezuela were actually able to
>vote in elections? Unless it was like the election in eastern Ukraine
>where they voted to become part of Russia at gunpoint.

I'd vote to send them all to Democrats who voted for those responsible for
this. Certainly you can take care of a few families?

In my experience, Democrats are all for open borders until they start
opening the gates of their own back yards.

On 10/12/2022 1:39 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>
>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>> first place.
>>>
>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>> from which they came.
>>
>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>> without talking to an immigration official.
>
> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
> to be by the courts--

Pure horseshit, as expected. Looks like the largest number of claims
were under Trump--by far.

https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/667/

I you trying to out do Alex Jones for lying?

On 10/12/2022 1:39 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>
>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>> first place.
>>>
>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>> from which they came.
>>
>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>> without talking to an immigration official.
>
> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
> to be by the courts--

Pure horseshit, as expected. Looks like the largest number of claims
were under Trump--by far.

https://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/667/

Are you trying to outdo Alex Jones for lying?

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:39:38 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>> > On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>> >> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>> >
>> > The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>> > the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>> > first place.
>> >
>> > They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>> > from which they came.
>>
>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>> without talking to an immigration official.
>
>But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>to be by the courts-- they know that when the hearing happens, they'll
>be deported, so their motivation is to disappear and hope no one ever
>finds them. And what better way to do that than to get on a bus and go
>thousands of miles to the other side of the country?

They're no longer even being given court dates to appear under Biden.
They're just bussed around the country and dropped off with the idea they
will report to an ICE agency when they reach their destinations. LOL

https://policetribune.com/border-patrol-told-to-release-illegal-immigrants-without-court-dates-even-without-contact-info/

On 10/12/2022 2:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>> first place.
>>>>>
>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>
>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>
>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>
>> Even from Venezuala?
>
> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?

More horseshit. No one gives a shit about your "pocket." That's more
right wing horseshit. We have a democratic republic where elected
leaders make decisions on how our vast wealth is spent. The lion's
share of it is flushed down the toilet in the name of "defense". Right
wing assholes don't talk about this because if sucking at the teat of
something makes them tons of cash, that's they're entire raison d'etre.
So shut your fucking mouth because you have nothing remotely valid to say.

On 10/12/2022 3:15 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <D0F1L.251450$51Rb.81037@fx45.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>>>> first place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>>>>> from which they came.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>>>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>>>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>>>>
>>>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>>>
>>>> Even from Venezuala?
>>>
>>> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
>>> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
>>> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
>>> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>>
>> They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
>> politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...
>
> They're being told by activist groups and their own governments to
> invoke the magic word 'asylum' whether it's true or not because it will
> force the U.S. government to let them in when they would otherwise be
> deported.
>
> Sounds like fraud to me.

Me too. Although if the Biden administration is letting "illegals"
"pour into the country" all these "fraudulent claims" should be thrown
in the trash, right? So you've stupidly, hypocritically contradicted
yourself and sound more fraudulent than anybody. That was a bit
predictable. Keep up the good work, I hear it's the only thing you can
keep up you impotent loser!

On 10/12/2022 4:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <B%F1L.86668$1Ly7.28881@fx34.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/12/2022 4:15 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <D0F1L.251450$51Rb.81037@fx45.iad>,
>>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2022 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <ti721k$75l3$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:39 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>>>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>>>>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>>>>>>> first place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the
>>>>>>>>> border from which they came.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed
>>>>>>>> and were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day
>>>>>>>> before without talking to an immigration official.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even from Venezuala?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Venezuelans made their own beds. They're the ones who thought
>>>>> socialism and communism was so wonderful that they voted it into power.
>>>>> Now that it's all predictably fallen down around them, they want to show
>>>>> up here and dip into my pocket and expect me to support them all?
>>>>
>>>> They're not 'fraudulent', they're merely 'bullshit' ...like a
>>>> politician's oath. Save 'fraudulent' for genuine attempts to deceive...
>>>
>>> They're being told by activist groups and their own governments to
>>> invoke the magic word 'asylum' whether it's true or not because it will
>>> force the U.S. government to let them in when they would otherwise be
>>> deported.
>>>
>>> Sounds like fraud to me.
>>
>> Like you say, it's a "magic word" ...i.e., a formalism that nobody
>> thinks is fooling anybody.
>
> A bad fraudster is still a fraudster.

Speaking of which, do you have the stolen documents?

On 10/12/2022 5:46 PM, EGK wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 11:39:38 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <ti7091$74pc$1@solani.org>, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well
>>>>> have wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>>>
>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>> first place.
>>>>
>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>>> from which they came.
>>>
>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>
>> But since their asylum claims are fraudulent-- as 98% of them are found
>> to be by the courts-- they know that when the hearing happens, they'll
>> be deported, so their motivation is to disappear and hope no one ever
>> finds them. And what better way to do that than to get on a bus and go
>> thousands of miles to the other side of the country?
>
> They're no longer even being given court dates to appear under Biden.
> They're just bussed around the country and dropped off with the idea they
> will report to an ICE agency when they reach their destinations. LOL

Holy fuck, Egregiously Gay Klansman is even stupider than I though. LOL

On 10/12/2022 2:33 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>>>> wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>
>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>> first place.
>
>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>> >from which they came.
>
>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>> without talking to an immigration official.
>
> Where do you think they were processed?
>
> I have no idea what a tiny border patrol station does. Processing really
> should include collecting a full set of fingerprints and photographs,
> and these should be run through criminal databases. Someone with an
> arrest record in the United States shouldn't be treated like a
> legitimate asylum seeker but deported for valid reasons. If they've
> previously entered the United States unlawfully, then there's no reason
> to treat them like valid asylum seekers.
>
> Issue them SSNs for work, which they should be eligible for, only after
> positive identification.
>
> If they are subsequently arrested in the United States, then they've
> already been positively identified and police should have no trouble
> figuring out whom they've arrested.
>
They don't have the personnel to do all that, though someone must have
at least taken names since they were given courtdates for hearings. I
figure it's where they came across the border.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2022 17:28:08 -0700, suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:

>On 10/12/2022 2:33 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> suzeeq <suzee@imbris.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2022 11:01 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 13:04:41 -0400, Ubiquitous <weberm@polaris.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Turley pointed out that the immigrants DeSantis transported may well have
>>>>> wanted to leave the border area from where they left.
>>
>>>> The point being of course that their wishes did not enter into it in
>>>> the slightest since they were not legally in the United States in the
>>>> first place.
>>
>>>> They don't have the RIGHT to go anywhere except back across the border
>>> >from which they came.
>>
>>> They weren't here illegally, really. They had already been processed and
>>> were waiting asylum hearings. They hadn't just come over the day before
>>> without talking to an immigration official.
>>
>> Where do you think they were processed?
>>
>> I have no idea what a tiny border patrol station does. Processing really
>> should include collecting a full set of fingerprints and photographs,
>> and these should be run through criminal databases. Someone with an
>> arrest record in the United States shouldn't be treated like a
>> legitimate asylum seeker but deported for valid reasons. If they've
>> previously entered the United States unlawfully, then there's no reason
>> to treat them like valid asylum seekers.
>>
>> Issue them SSNs for work, which they should be eligible for, only after
>> positive identification.
>>
>> If they are subsequently arrested in the United States, then they've
>> already been positively identified and police should have no trouble
>> figuring out whom they've arrested.
>>
>They don't have the personnel to do all that, though someone must have
>at least taken names since they were given courtdates for hearings. I
>figure it's where they came across the border.

Nope., Under Biden they stopped giving them court dates. They're just
shpped around the country and expected to report to nearby ICE.

And they're disappearing? Gee, who would have thought that?

https://dailycaller.com/2021/07/27/migrant-court-date-disappearing/