Le 21/09/2022 à 00:44, Travoltron a écrit :
> I don't hate Enterprise. I've seen maybe half of the episodes, off and
> on. But there were a lot of inconsistencies and canon violations.
> Prequels almost always do this.
>
> I recall contact with the Gorn, Ferengi, and Borg long before that
> should have happened.

The point is "should have happened"... or not.

The Gorns: it was in the mirror universe if I remember correctly. Just a
one-shot encounter.

The Ferengis: in TNG it is not stated that this is the first contact
with them.

The Borgs: when Picard meets them in TNG, he could hardly make a link to
the species that briefly showed up 200 years and never again after
that... Time passes and humans forget.

> Also, why are the Xindi NEVER mentioned again in the other Trek shows,
> even though they were a major power and fought a war with Earth? Again,
> prequels cause problems.

This one is more significant, I agree. But actually it's not uncommon in
ST to have species that are set aside for a long time or even that never
show up again. Although a major threat, the Borgs do appear only in very
few episodes of TNG, not at all in DS9, and quite late in VOY. We have
to assume that Xindis were no longer a problem after that, and that they
did not seek to establish close relations with the Federation. And all
along ST new species are introduced, and very often we may also wonder
why they were never mentioned before.

> Also, the idea that mind melds were forbidden was dumb.

I don't think so... But anyway it's a detail.

I don't claim that Entreprise is a perfect prequel. But given all the
challenges to build a prequel, I find that they did really well.

--
"...sois ouvert aux idées des autres pour peu qu'elles aillent dans le
même sens que les tiennes.", ST sur fr.bio.medecine
ST passe le mur du çon : <j3nn2hFmqj7U1@mid.individual.net>

Le 23/09/2022 à 22:05, pehache a écrit :

>
> I don't claim that Entreprise is a perfect prequel. But given all the
> challenges to build a prequel, I find that they did really well.
>

All the more if we take into account the pressure from the studio.

Berman didn't want to start a new serie right after Voyager, he was
feeling that the audience was less demanding after 14 years non-stop and
that waiting a few years before starting a new one would be wise.
Paramount ignored that and answered "we'll do it anyway, with or without
you".

The full Xindi arc was resulting from a demand of the studio after the
9-11.

The initial plan was at least a 7-seasons serie (or possibly more) to
develop all the events that led to the creation of the Federation and
explain many things that exist in TOS-TNG etc... Once cancelled, they
had to shrink everything into the 4th season, which was mission:
impossible...

--
"...sois ouvert aux idées des autres pour peu qu'elles aillent dans le
même sens que les tiennes.", ST sur fr.bio.medecine
ST passe le mur du çon : <j3nn2hFmqj7U1@mid.individual.net>

On 2022-09-24, pehache <pehache.7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 23/09/2022 à 22:05, pehache a écrit :
>
>>
>> I don't claim that Entreprise is a perfect prequel. But given all the
>> challenges to build a prequel, I find that they did really well.
>>
>
> All the more if we take into account the pressure from the studio.
>
> Berman didn't want to start a new serie right after Voyager, he was
> feeling that the audience was less demanding after 14 years non-stop and
> that waiting a few years before starting a new one would be wise.
> Paramount ignored that and answered "we'll do it anyway, with or without
> you".
>
> The full Xindi arc was resulting from a demand of the studio after the
> 9-11.
>
> The initial plan was at least a 7-seasons serie (or possibly more) to
> develop all the events that led to the creation of the Federation and
> explain many things that exist in TOS-TNG etc... Once cancelled, they
> had to shrink everything into the 4th season, which was mission:
> impossible...
>

Well, this is diappointing to learn. Thank-you for this info, though.

I've not been watching anything "streaming"...just youtube segmets et. al.
these days.

BUT...I do have high hopes for ST Strange New Worlds. If they can just keep
their current vibe goind it will be the best (current) Trek yet.

pH

On 2022-09-24, pehache <pehache.7@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le 23/09/2022 à 22:05, pehache a écrit :
>>
>> I don't claim that Entreprise is a perfect prequel. But given all the
>> challenges to build a prequel, I find that they did really well.
>
> All the more if we take into account the pressure from the studio.
>
> Berman didn't want to start a new serie right after Voyager, he was
> feeling that the audience was less demanding after 14 years non-stop and
> that waiting a few years before starting a new one would be wise.
<snip>

Ahhh, the old "franchise fatigue" nonsense to explain away the fact
that they had no senisble ideas and simply wanted to do things they're
own way via a moronic "reboot" (because of course they "know better"
than Gene Roddenberry what Star Trek is "meant to be"). :-\

The reality is that the fans were not "tired" or "less demanding". They
were simply fed up with all the changes and garbage being funnelled out
by Beavuis & Butthead ... who then went and made even more changes and
garbage. Then the studio replaced them and JarJar Abrams made even more
idiotic changes and garbage.

Now the franchise is just a mess of conflicting different versions. :-(

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 23:17:25 -0000 (UTC), pH <wNOSPAMp@gmail.org>
wrote:

>> Hollywoke doesn't like Capt. Kirk and his ilk:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heDoY1dALoA
>
>I went and watched this....thank-you for this link.
>
Of course they don't - he was very much 'a girl in every port' type of
guy.

From the woke point of view his impregnation of the faux native maiden
was the last straw.

Le 25/09/2022 à 07:09, Your Name a écrit :
> On 2022-09-24, pehache <pehache.7@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Le 23/09/2022 à 22:05, pehache a écrit :
>>>
>>> I don't claim that Entreprise is a perfect prequel. But given all the
>>> challenges to build a prequel, I find that they did really well.
>>
>> All the more if we take into account the pressure from the studio.
>>
>> Berman didn't want to start a new serie right after Voyager, he was
>> feeling that the audience was less demanding after 14 years non-stop and
>> that waiting a few years before starting a new one would be wise.
>
> <snip>
>

Weren't you supposed to killfile me???

> Ahhh, the old "franchise fatigue" nonsense to explain away the fact that
> they had no senisble ideas and simply wanted to do things they're own
> way via a moronic "reboot"

I'm still waiting for your list of significant inconsistencies that
would support your "reboot" theory (which until just looks like a flat
earth theory).

> (because of course they "know better" than
> Gene Roddenberry what Star Trek is "meant to be").   :-\

That's pure nonsense. Berman did handle and faithfully develop the
Roddenberry heritage during 14 years and 3 shows, and suddenly he wanted
to throw it away??

>
> Then the studio replaced them and JarJar Abrams made even more
> idiotic changes and garbage.

At least we can agree on that. But after all, JJA movies are claimed
reboots. Recent kurtzmanians shows are even more damaging, as they
contradicts events of the classic shows.

--
"...sois ouvert aux idées des autres pour peu qu'elles aillent dans le
même sens que les tiennes.", ST sur fr.bio.medecine
ST passe le mur du çon : <j3nn2hFmqj7U1@mid.individual.net>

I know there was some talk about giving Takei his own Excelsior TV show.
That Voyager episode does seem to be a backdoor pilot for that.

I like Sulu and I love the Excelsior and would have loved to see THAT
show. I was so disappointed they went the way they did with Enterprise.

But Enterprise looks like Shakespeare compared to what Abrams, Kurtzman,
and Orci have cranked out since 2009. I do enjoy most of the episodes
that I've seen. It seemed to improve a lot in the last couple seasons.

On 9/25/2022 1:44 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:

> From the woke point of view his impregnation of the faux native maiden
> was the last straw.

Oh yeah, THAT episode is the fodder for a lot of bad-faith arguments
about TOS. It was just a sub-par season 3 episode and a product of its time.

Someone on the wiki is obsessed with these things and keeps adding in
quotes from this book:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek_and_History:_Race-ing_Toward_a_White_Future

I don't even know why the hell that book and its author are on the wiki.
It's not an official product. It doesn't even belong on Memory Beta.

On 8/26/2022 8:26 AM, Elim Garak wrote:

> Imagine if TOS had included woke bullshit. You would have had a black
> woman on the bridge who wasn't there just to clean it.
Uhura was an excellent officer, but not a Mary Sue like Mikey Burnham.
Not woke.

> Or planets that
> were just heavy-handed metaphors for US 1960s race relations.
An episode that showed the cop AND the social activist as equally insane
as violent. Both sides refused to negotiate until their planet was
destroyed. Not woke.

Try harder next time.

On 2022-10-01, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni> wrote:
> I know there was some talk about giving Takei his own Excelsior TV show.
> That Voyager episode does seem to be a backdoor pilot for that.
>
> I like Sulu and I love the Excelsior and would have loved to see THAT
> show. I was so disappointed they went the way they did with Enterprise.
>
> But Enterprise looks like Shakespeare compared to what Abrams, Kurtzman,
> and Orci have cranked out since 2009. I do enjoy most of the episodes
> that I've seen. It seemed to improve a lot in the last couple seasons.
>

I wrote a letter to Paramount after that particular Star Trek movie came out
proposing that as well.

Oh well, what does one 'fan letter' amount to.

Only Takei, Koenig and Shatner are left from the old series....they better
hop on it if it's to happen. (Kind of like Bing Crosby dying just before
they were going to do one more "on the road" w/ Bob Hope).

pH in Aptos

On 2022-10-01 17:55:53 +0000, pH said:
> On 2022-10-01, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni> wrote:
>> I know there was some talk about giving Takei his own Excelsior TV show.
>> That Voyager episode does seem to be a backdoor pilot for that.
>>
>> I like Sulu and I love the Excelsior and would have loved to see THAT
>> show. I was so disappointed they went the way they did with Enterprise.
>>
>> But Enterprise looks like Shakespeare compared to what Abrams, Kurtzman,
>> and Orci have cranked out since 2009. I do enjoy most of the episodes
>> that I've seen. It seemed to improve a lot in the last couple seasons.
>
> I wrote a letter to Paramount after that particular Star Trek movie came out
> proposing that as well.
>
> Oh well, what does one 'fan letter' amount to.
>
> Only Takei, Koenig and Shatner are left from the old series....they better
> hop on it if it's to happen. (Kind of like Bing Crosby dying just before
> they were going to do one more "on the road" w/ Bob Hope).
>
> pH in Aptos

They're all too old to base a TV show around. Stewart is too old as
well, as "Picard" rather proves - he's now a doddery old man (or
perhaps that shold be even more doddery).

On 2022-10-01, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2022-10-01 17:55:53 +0000, pH said:
>> On 2022-10-01, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni> wrote:
>>> I know there was some talk about giving Takei his own Excelsior TV show.
>>> That Voyager episode does seem to be a backdoor pilot for that.
>>>
>>> I like Sulu and I love the Excelsior and would have loved to see THAT
>>> show. I was so disappointed they went the way they did with Enterprise.
>>>
>>> But Enterprise looks like Shakespeare compared to what Abrams, Kurtzman,
>>> and Orci have cranked out since 2009. I do enjoy most of the episodes
>>> that I've seen. It seemed to improve a lot in the last couple seasons.
>>
>> I wrote a letter to Paramount after that particular Star Trek movie came out
>> proposing that as well.
>>
>> Oh well, what does one 'fan letter' amount to.
>>
>> Only Takei, Koenig and Shatner are left from the old series....they better
>> hop on it if it's to happen. (Kind of like Bing Crosby dying just before
>> they were going to do one more "on the road" w/ Bob Hope).
>>
>> pH in Aptos
>
> They're all too old to base a TV show around. Stewart is too old as
> well, as "Picard" rather proves - he's now a doddery old man (or
> perhaps that shold be even more doddery).
>
>

Yes, I think you're right. I kind of noticed that about "Picard" as well.
Oh well....time marches on.

pH

They should never have killed off Kirk. Shatner obviously had so many
good and healthy DECADES after that. What a waste. And he wanted to
appear in JJ Trek and JJ squandered the opportunity.

On 2022-10-03, Travoltron <travoltron@defender.uni> wrote:
> They should never have killed off Kirk. Shatner obviously had so many
> good and healthy DECADES after that. What a waste. And he wanted to
> appear in JJ Trek and JJ squandered the opportunity.
>

Yes. At age 91 it is now rather late in the game...but you never know.

It could have easily been done--this being Science Fiction, after all--by
doing something like: "Oh, look...Captain Kirk was caught in the Nexux after
all and he's actually fine after having popped back out."

I assume there was $$$ or lack of interest or hidden politics we'll never
know involved.

In the meantime, I *am* enjoying the "Strange New Worlds" clips on
Youtube...it's the most "real Trek" I've seen for along time.

pH in Aptos

Le 01/10/2022 à 02:14, Travoltron a écrit :

> But Enterprise looks like Shakespeare compared to what Abrams, Kurtzman,
> and Orci have cranked out since 2009.

Indeed...

> I do enjoy most of the episodes
> that I've seen. It seemed to improve a lot in the last couple seasons.

Yep, the first 2 seasons are somehow weaker. But this is case of all
other classical ST shows (TOS apart): in their first two seasons, TNG,
VOY, or DS9 are not at their best

--
"...sois ouvert aux idées des autres pour peu qu'elles aillent dans le
même sens que les tiennes.", ST sur fr.bio.medecine
ST passe le mur du çon : <j3nn2hFmqj7U1@mid.individual.net>