This is one of the stranger news stories I've seen in a while. Apparently angry residents are violently harassing the crews that operate the snow ploughs in several southern Ontario cities. The harassment was so bad that some drivers quit their jobs, apparently in fear of their lives.

https://www.insauga.com/snow-plow-drivers-quit-their-jobs-after-violent-residents-confront-them-in-mississauga

I've never heard of something like this before. Normally, people are happy to see the ploughs clearing their streets. The only exception is when the plough shoves all the snow it's collected in the last hundred feet into the end of your driveway, especially after you've nearly broken your back shovelling it out moments before. But that's just the inevitable result of ploughing and I've never heard of anyone attacking a snow plough or its driver over that.

In a typical display of journalistic laziness, the reporter on this piece clearly made no effort to talk to snow plough drivers, the people who'd been arrested or the people in their neighbourhoods to find out WHY these ploughs and drivers had been attacked. Did it not occur to any journalists or their editors to wonder WHY these attacks had happened or to anticipate that their readers might wonder what motivated the attacks?

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 18:46:44 -0800 (PST), Rhino2
<hughmunguscan@gmail.com> wrote:

>This is one of the stranger news stories I've seen in a while. Apparently angry residents are violently harassing the crews that operate the snow ploughs in several southern Ontario cities. The harassment was so bad that some drivers quit their jobs, apparently in fear of their lives.
>
>https://www.insauga.com/snow-plow-drivers-quit-their-jobs-after-violent-residents-confront-them-in-mississauga
>
>I've never heard of something like this before. Normally, people are happy to see the ploughs clearing their streets. The only exception is when the plough shoves all the snow it's collected in the last hundred feet into the end of your driveway, especially after you've nearly broken your back shovelling it out moments before. But
that's just the inevitable result of ploughing and I've never heard of anyone attacking a snow plough or its driver over that.
>
>In a typical display of journalistic laziness, the reporter on this piece clearly made no effort to talk to snow plough drivers, the people who'd been arrested or the people in their neighbourhoods to find out WHY these ploughs and drivers had been attacked. Did it not occur to any journalists or their editors to wonder WHY these
attacks had happened or to anticipate that their readers might wonder what motivated the attacks?

Sounds like they are being harassed for exactly the reason you
mentioned.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/03/10/mississauga-snow-plow-drivers-harassed-bonnie-crombie/
“I was doing my best to plow through one street in Mississauga. It’s a
neighbourhood I’ve driven through many times before with no issues. I
was reversing from a dead-end, and on my way back, a gentleman who was
out shovelling waved at me to stop before yelling profanities at me,”
the man said in an email.

“He said, ‘you come by and spread so much snow on my driveway.'” I
tried to explain [it was] my job to get the streets cleared as soon as
possible. When I started to drive away, he must have thrown something,
perhaps his shovel, at the side of my truck because I heard a bang. I
didn’t feel like dealing with it, and I continued [with] my shift.”

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 22:19:50 -0500, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 18:46:44 -0800 (PST), Rhino2
><hughmunguscan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>This is one of the stranger news stories I've seen in a while. Apparently angry residents are violently harassing the crews that operate the snow ploughs in several southern Ontario cities. The harassment was so bad that some drivers quit their jobs, apparently in fear of their lives.
>>
>>https://www.insauga.com/snow-plow-drivers-quit-their-jobs-after-violent-residents-confront-them-in-mississauga
>>
>>I've never heard of something like this before. Normally, people are happy to see the ploughs clearing their streets. The only exception is when the plough shoves all the snow it's collected in the last hundred feet into the end of your driveway, especially after you've nearly broken your back shovelling it out moments before. But
>that's just the inevitable result of ploughing and I've never heard of anyone attacking a snow plough or its driver over that.
>>
>>In a typical display of journalistic laziness, the reporter on this piece clearly made no effort to talk to snow plough drivers, the people who'd been arrested or the people in their neighbourhoods to find out WHY these ploughs and drivers had been attacked. Did it not occur to any journalists or their editors to wonder WHY these
>attacks had happened or to anticipate that their readers might wonder what motivated the attacks?
>
>Sounds like they are being harassed for exactly the reason you
>mentioned.

I've heard many times of people cursing snowplows - but never
anything on the scale that article covers.

We live on a major bus route at the top of a hill - this means our
street always get first rate clearance except one time about 10 years
ago when they stopped servicing the top 6 blocks of the routes (e.g.
ours) and didn't bother signing the closed bus stops or even telling
the neighbors what was going on. As a father with 3 then teenage kids
who depended on the buses and had them stand in the snow for over an
hour I was plenty upset.

With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.

10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
feet of snow.

My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
before he moved out he never did.

No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
is the first I've heard of any actual action.

On Sunday, March 12, 2023 at 4:32:46 AM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 22:19:50 -0500, shawn
> <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 18:46:44 -0800 (PST), Rhino2
> ><hughmu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>This is one of the stranger news stories I've seen in a while. Apparently angry residents are violently harassing the crews that operate the snow ploughs in several southern Ontario cities. The harassment was so bad that some drivers quit their jobs, apparently in fear of their lives.
> >>
> >>https://www.insauga.com/snow-plow-drivers-quit-their-jobs-after-violent-residents-confront-them-in-mississauga
> >>
> >>I've never heard of something like this before. Normally, people are happy to see the ploughs clearing their streets. The only exception is when the plough shoves all the snow it's collected in the last hundred feet into the end of your driveway, especially after you've nearly broken your back shovelling it out moments before. But
> >that's just the inevitable result of ploughing and I've never heard of anyone attacking a snow plough or its driver over that.
> >>
> >>In a typical display of journalistic laziness, the reporter on this piece clearly made no effort to talk to snow plough drivers, the people who'd been arrested or the people in their neighbourhoods to find out WHY these ploughs and drivers had been attacked. Did it not occur to any journalists or their editors to wonder WHY these
> >attacks had happened or to anticipate that their readers might wonder what motivated the attacks?
> >
> >Sounds like they are being harassed for exactly the reason you
> >mentioned.
> I've heard many times of people cursing snowplows - but never
> anything on the scale that article covers.
>
> We live on a major bus route at the top of a hill - this means our
> street always get first rate clearance except one time about 10 years
> ago when they stopped servicing the top 6 blocks of the routes (e.g.
> ours) and didn't bother signing the closed bus stops or even telling
> the neighbors what was going on. As a father with 3 then teenage kids
> who depended on the buses and had them stand in the snow for over an
> hour I was plenty upset.
>
> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>
> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
> feet of snow.
>
> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
> before he moved out he never did.
>
> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
> is the first I've heard of any actual action.

Back when I was still a kid, ploughs filling in the end of the driveway caused considerably grumbling among people who'd had it happen to them, meaning most people who lived in single family houses rather than apartments. Some of this grumbling must have finally been heard because the snow plough operators finally added side gates to the ploughs. The side gate was mounted perpendicular to the ploughing surface and the gate would go down as the driver passed each driveway, then go up again after the driveway had been passed. This had the effect of keeping a sizable percentage of the snow from being deposited back in the driveway which had just been passed but it definitely didn't keep ALL of the snow from refilling the end of the driveway.

I haven't seen those gates on the ploughs in recent years but I'm not sure when they disappeared or why. I can't help but think it is time to reinstate those gates. I expect it won't be cheap to retrofit the ploughs with gates - or more likely replace them outright - but it may prevent a lot of bad will, damage to ploughs and maybe even injuries to plough operators.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>. . .

>I've heard many times of people cursing snowplows - but never
>anything on the scale that article covers.

>We live on a major bus route at the top of a hill - this means our
>street always get first rate clearance except one time about 10 years
>ago when they stopped servicing the top 6 blocks of the routes (e.g.
>ours) and didn't bother signing the closed bus stops or even telling
>the neighbors what was going on. As a father with 3 then teenage kids
>who depended on the buses and had them stand in the snow for over an
>hour I was plenty upset.

>With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.

>10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>feet of snow.

>My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>before he moved out he never did.

There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
sidewalk, it's hopeless.

>No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>is the first I've heard of any actual action.

Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
continue to happem.

There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
at council meetings.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>
>>10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>feet of snow.
>
>>My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>before he moved out he never did.
>
>There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>sidewalk, it's hopeless.

In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
plow.

I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)

>>No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>
>Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>continue to happem.

The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
weekend plowing....."

>There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>at council meetings.

I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
time for that sort of thing)

On Mar 12, 2023 at 11:36:13 AM PDT, "The Horny Goat" <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>>
>>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>> feet of snow.
>>
>>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>> before he moved out he never did.
>>
>> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>
> In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
> the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
> of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
> direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
> side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
> let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
> plow.
>
> I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
> the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
> supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
> up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
> roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
> during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
> day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)
>
>>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>>
>> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>> continue to happem.
>
> The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
> weekend plowing....."
>
>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>> at council meetings.
>
> I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
> with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
> and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
> doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
> Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
> person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
> importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
> served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
> served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
> time for that sort of thing)

This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.

For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do is
shovel snow off my driveway.

On 3/12/23 2:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2023 at 11:36:13 AM PDT, "The Horny Goat" <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>>>
>>>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>>> feet of snow.
>>>
>>>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>>> before he moved out he never did.
>>>
>>> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>>> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>>> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>>> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>>
>> In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
>> the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
>> of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
>> direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
>> side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
>> let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
>> plow.
>>
>> I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
>> the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
>> supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
>> up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
>> roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
>> during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
>> day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)
>>
>>>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>>>
>>> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>>> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>>> continue to happem.
>>
>> The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
>> weekend plowing....."
>>
>>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>>> at council meetings.
>>
>> I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
>> with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
>> and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
>> doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
>> Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
>> person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
>> importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
>> served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
>> served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
>> time for that sort of thing)
>
> This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.
>
> For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do is
> shovel snow off my driveway.

You're lying of course. You think (and I use the word loosely) that
shoveling snow is worse than how you respond to Gavin Newsom? You're
fucking liar as usual. Just more shitposting.

On 2023-03-12 1:48 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>> . . .
>
>> I've heard many times of people cursing snowplows - but never
>> anything on the scale that article covers.
>
>> We live on a major bus route at the top of a hill - this means our
>> street always get first rate clearance except one time about 10 years
>> ago when they stopped servicing the top 6 blocks of the routes (e.g.
>> ours) and didn't bother signing the closed bus stops or even telling
>> the neighbors what was going on. As a father with 3 then teenage kids
>> who depended on the buses and had them stand in the snow for over an
>> hour I was plenty upset.
>
>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>
>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>> feet of snow.
>
>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>> before he moved out he never did.
>
> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>
>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>
> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
> continue to happem.
>
This has not been an issue in my town - as far as I know - but my town
has a policy that residents have to shovel their sidewalks down to bare
concrete and for the entire width of the sidewalk. You don't have to
shovel your driveway under this bylaw but, of course, if you don't it
will be difficult to get vehicles in and out of the driveway.

There have been proposals in years past that the city be responsible for
clearing sidewalks and even a pilot project to try it in one area -
ours! - but enthusiasm for this was not very high. I assume the cost was
the issue but the newspaper never went into much detail about why. Mind
you, the pilot project happened on a particularly mild winter and there
was hardly anything to shovel so it wasn't a hardship to shovel it
ourselves. By contrast, the last few weeks have involved several bouts
of shovelling after a winter that had been almost snowless until quite
recently.

> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
> at council meetings.

I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
pile less snow into the driveways they pass.
--
Rhino

On 2023-03-12 3:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2023 at 11:36:13 AM PDT, "The Horny Goat" <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>>>
>>>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>>> feet of snow.
>>>
>>>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>>> before he moved out he never did.
>>>
>>> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>>> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>>> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>>> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>>
>> In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
>> the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
>> of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
>> direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
>> side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
>> let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
>> plow.
>>
>> I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
>> the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
>> supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
>> up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
>> roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
>> during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
>> day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)
>>
>>>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>>>
>>> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>>> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>>> continue to happem.
>>
>> The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
>> weekend plowing....."
>>
>>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>>> at council meetings.
>>
>> I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
>> with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
>> and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
>> doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
>> Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
>> person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
>> importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
>> served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
>> served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
>> time for that sort of thing)
>
> This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.
>
> For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do is
> shovel snow off my driveway.
>

Of course you can't thank the government for that; that's just a bonus
of living in semi-tropical LA.

You haven't lived in LA all your life have you? I thought you'd
mentioned growing up in Texas or at least living there for a time. What
were your experiences with snow outside of California?

--
Rhino

On Mar 12, 2023 at 1:28:06 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com>
wrote:

> On 2023-03-12 3:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> On Mar 12, 2023 at 11:36:13 AM PDT, "The Horny Goat" <lcraver@home.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>>>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>>>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>>>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>>>>
>>>>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>>>> feet of snow.
>>>>
>>>>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>>>> before he moved out he never did.
>>>>
>>>> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>>>> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>>>> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>>>> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>>>
>>> In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
>>> the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
>>> of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
>>> direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
>>> side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
>>> let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
>>> plow.
>>>
>>> I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
>>> the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
>>> supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
>>> up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
>>> roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
>>> during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
>>> day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)
>>>
>>>>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>>>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>>>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>>>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>>>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>>>>
>>>> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>>>> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>>>> continue to happem.
>>>
>>> The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
>>> weekend plowing....."
>>>
>>>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>>>> at council meetings.
>>>
>>> I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
>>> with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
>>> and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
>>> doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
>>> Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
>>> person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
>>> importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
>>> served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
>>> served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
>>> time for that sort of thing)
>>
>> This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.
>>
>> For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do
>> is
>> shovel snow off my driveway.
>>
>
> Of course you can't thank the government for that; that's just a bonus
> of living in semi-tropical LA.
>
> You haven't lived in LA all your life have you? I thought you'd
> mentioned growing up in Texas or at least living there for a time. What
> were your experiences with snow outside of California?

I had to live for about 10 years in Washington DC for the second phase of my
career and I loathed every winter. Always being cold, having to deal with
coats and hats and mittens, the shoveling, the premature wear on your vehicle
from all the salt and chemicals they put on the roads to deal with the snow
and ice... gah! Couldn't wait to move somewhere sunny and warm with palm trees
and beaches and none of that mess.

> shawn
>
> “He said, ‘you come by and spread so much snow on my driveway.'”
> I tried to explain [it was] my job to get the streets cleared as soon as
> possible.

We haven't gotten very much snow at all here in metro Detroit the last few years
but X years back, I had just finished snowblowing my driveway and the sidewalks
along several houses to each side and right when I got in the house, I heard the
city plow truck come barreling down the street hell bent for leather (easily 40+
MPH) and I ran outside and stood on the sidewalk giving him the Evil Eye and he
had to slow down, lest he bowl me over with the tidal wave of snow from his plow.

Of course it was too late for the neighbors down the street (whose sidewalks I
had just fucking cleared!) as the plow truck had thrown snow across the side
walk and half way up the front lawns.

Someone must have bitched to the mayor because after that, the plow trucks
drove down the street at a reasonable speed, dumping the plowed snow on the
"boulevard", as we call the grass strip between the sidewalk and street.

In article <ff1d0a7b-81f2-4e82-8326-33d1f481159an@googlegroups.com>, Ed
Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

> > shawn
> >
> > ³He said, Œyou come by and spread so much snow on my driveway.'²
> > I tried to explain [it was] my job to get the streets cleared as soon as
> > possible.
>
> We haven't gotten very much snow at all here in metro Detroit the last few
> years
> but X years back, I had just finished snowblowing my driveway and the
> sidewalks
> along several houses to each side and right when I got in the house, I heard
> the
> city plow truck come barreling down the street hell bent for leather (easily
> 40+
> MPH) and I ran outside and stood on the sidewalk giving him the Evil Eye and
> he
> had to slow down, lest he bowl me over with the tidal wave of snow from his
> plow.
>
> Of course it was too late for the neighbors down the street (whose sidewalks I
> had just fucking cleared!) as the plow truck had thrown snow across the side
> walk and half way up the front lawns.
>
> Someone must have bitched to the mayor because after that, the plow trucks
> drove down the street at a reasonable speed, dumping the plowed snow on the
> "boulevard", as we call the grass strip between the sidewalk and street.

We don't get a significant snowfall here very often, but we did catch
32" a few years ago. I blew out our path and driveway. A little later
I heard a vehicle outside, so I went to take a look. It was two guys
in some sort of heap with a plow bolted to a rack in front. They were
busy filling in my cleared driveway with the snow from the road. I got
my shovel and started swinging, with special attention to their
taillights. I'm big and scary and was ripshit angry. The two assholes
seemed to appreciate that they needed to leave right away, which they
did. Ever since then, I've parked our two vehicles at the bottom of
the driveway, which blocks it off nicely.

In article <120320231723063716%nope@noway.com>,
A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> We don't get a significant snowfall here very often, but we did catch
> 32" a few years ago. I blew out our path and driveway. A little later
> I heard a vehicle outside, so I went to take a look. It was two guys
> in some sort of heap with a plow bolted to a rack in front. They were
> busy filling in my cleared driveway with the snow from the road. I got
> my shovel and started swinging, with special attention to their
> taillights. I'm big and scary and was ripshit angry. The two assholes
> seemed to appreciate that they needed to leave right away, which they
> did. Ever since then, I've parked our two vehicles at the bottom of
> the driveway, which blocks it off nicely.

Shoveling snow is one of the most physically demanding activities there
is, that's why you hear about so many people who aren't in shape having
heart attacks while doing it.

On Mar 12, 2023 at 4:02:40 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
wrote:

> In article <120320231723063716%nope@noway.com>,
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
>> We don't get a significant snowfall here very often, but we did catch
>> 32" a few years ago. I blew out our path and driveway. A little later
>> I heard a vehicle outside, so I went to take a look. It was two guys
>> in some sort of heap with a plow bolted to a rack in front. They were
>> busy filling in my cleared driveway with the snow from the road. I got
>> my shovel and started swinging, with special attention to their
>> taillights. I'm big and scary and was ripshit angry. The two assholes
>> seemed to appreciate that they needed to leave right away, which they
>> did. Ever since then, I've parked our two vehicles at the bottom of
>> the driveway, which blocks it off nicely.
>
> Shoveling snow is one of the most physically demanding activities there
> is, that's why you hear about so many people who aren't in shape having
> heart attacks while doing it.

I don't find it to be as draining as rowing-- a boat or using a rowing
machine. That kicks my ass. Shoveling snow was always just mildly draining.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:56:42 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>On Mar 12, 2023 at 4:02:40 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>> In article <120320231723063716%nope@noway.com>,
>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We don't get a significant snowfall here very often, but we did catch
>>> 32" a few years ago. I blew out our path and driveway. A little later
>>> I heard a vehicle outside, so I went to take a look. It was two guys
>>> in some sort of heap with a plow bolted to a rack in front. They were
>>> busy filling in my cleared driveway with the snow from the road. I got
>>> my shovel and started swinging, with special attention to their
>>> taillights. I'm big and scary and was ripshit angry. The two assholes
>>> seemed to appreciate that they needed to leave right away, which they
>>> did. Ever since then, I've parked our two vehicles at the bottom of
>>> the driveway, which blocks it off nicely.
>>
>> Shoveling snow is one of the most physically demanding activities there
>> is, that's why you hear about so many people who aren't in shape having
>> heart attacks while doing it.
>
>I don't find it to be as draining as rowing-- a boat or using a rowing
>machine. That kicks my ass. Shoveling snow was always just mildly draining.
>

The good thing about rowing a boat is you can stop when ever you want.
With shoveling snow people want to get it done as quickly as possible
so they can get out of the cold and not have to go back out to shovel
more until the next snow fall. At least that's what I expect most
people are thinking.

On 3/12/2023 8:09 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:56:42 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 12, 2023 at 4:02:40 PM PDT, "super70s" <super70s@super70s.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <120320231723063716%nope@noway.com>,
>>> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We don't get a significant snowfall here very often, but we did catch
>>>> 32" a few years ago. I blew out our path and driveway. A little later
>>>> I heard a vehicle outside, so I went to take a look. It was two guys
>>>> in some sort of heap with a plow bolted to a rack in front. They were
>>>> busy filling in my cleared driveway with the snow from the road. I got
>>>> my shovel and started swinging, with special attention to their
>>>> taillights. I'm big and scary and was ripshit angry. The two assholes
>>>> seemed to appreciate that they needed to leave right away, which they
>>>> did. Ever since then, I've parked our two vehicles at the bottom of
>>>> the driveway, which blocks it off nicely.
>>>
>>> Shoveling snow is one of the most physically demanding activities there
>>> is, that's why you hear about so many people who aren't in shape having
>>> heart attacks while doing it.
>>
>> I don't find it to be as draining as rowing-- a boat or using a rowing
>> machine. That kicks my ass. Shoveling snow was always just mildly draining.
>>
>
> The good thing about rowing a boat is you can stop when ever you want.
> With shoveling snow people want to get it done as quickly as possible
> so they can get out of the cold and not have to go back out to shovel
> more until the next snow fall. At least that's what I expect most
> people are thinking.

Also, rowing is a familiar, consistent motion and effort, whereas
shoveling can range from fluffy confetti to backbreaking brickloads.

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>>With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>>responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>>of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>>show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.

>>>10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>>feet of snow.

>>>My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>>before he moved out he never did.

>>There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>>the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>>adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>>sidewalk, it's hopeless.

>In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
>the curb.

In heavy snow, the snowplow can still plow up the windrow blocking the
sidewalk and it's unfair to expect the adjacent homeowner to clear that.
Where I live, there's a snowplow with a 4'-width bucket on a small Caterpiller
that's used to clear sidewalks.

>. . .

Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>>. . .

>I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
>love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
>pile less snow into the driveways they pass.

You have to clear a space beyond the edge of your driveway so there's
somewhere to shove the snow from the street; it helps a lot.

> BTR1701
> > super70s

(I don't see super70s posts on Google Groups, so I have to reply to you,
to reply to him/her/xer)

> > Shoveling snow is one of the most physically demanding activities there
> > is, that's why you hear about so many people who aren't in shape having
> > heart attacks while doing it.

The hell with shoveling. I've got an Ariens Model #924048 snowblower that my dad
bought back in 1977; 24" auger, two-stage (of course) 7hp Tecumseh engine, 5-speed
with reverse and a locking differential. It's fuk'n unstoppable and will thrown snow
clear across the street!

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/51b6090fe4b02af346a7b529/1451801483298-FMUBBN86XDIUY9G4G27P/?format=1000w&content-type=image%2Fjpeg

> Adam H. Kerman
> > Rhino
> >
> >I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
> >love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
> >pile less snow into the driveways they pass.
>
> You have to clear a space beyond the edge of your driveway so there's
> somewhere to shove the snow from the street; it helps a lot.

The trick with snowblowing (and I suppose shoveling, if you're a peasant)
is to clear 2-3 passes of snow on the street along the curb in front of your
neighbor's house, (the one to the left, when facing the street) as this removes
most of the snow the plow truck will dump in your driveway approach.

On 2023-03-12 4:42 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Mar 12, 2023 at 1:28:06 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-03-12 3:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> On Mar 12, 2023 at 11:36:13 AM PDT, "The Horny Goat" <lcraver@home.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 17:48:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> With respect to the plows our municipal bylaws make homeowners
>>>>>> responsible for clearing their sidewalks. My son did a first rate job
>>>>>> of clearing ours - took him 1 1/2 hours to do so and he called me to
>>>>>> show me what he'd done and what a job he had done.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 10 minutes later the plow came along and buried his work under 2 1/2
>>>>>> feet of snow.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My son swore he'd NEVER shovel sidewalks again and in the two years
>>>>>> before he moved out he never did.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are snowplow drivers who take care not to block sidewalks, pushing
>>>>> the windrow beyond the intersection. But if the sidewalk is immediately
>>>>> adjacent to the street and the snow plow driver stores snow on the
>>>>> sidewalk, it's hopeless.
>>>>
>>>> In our area there is about 3-4 feet of grass between our sidewalk and
>>>> the curb. Again it's a bus route on a hilly stretch so we're glad MOST
>>>> of the time (though the stops are about 2 blocks away in either
>>>> direction) since no question we get priority snow removal. There's a
>>>> side street close to us (I often walk the dog there) where they just
>>>> let the sow pile up and up as it isn't a priority location for the
>>>> plow.
>>>>
>>>> I shall never forget the year my son's band group did a road trip over
>>>> the Christmas break. We had snowfall over Christmas and the bus was
>>>> supposed to discharge the kids in front of the school but they ended
>>>> up dropping them on the main street at the bus stop - point being the
>>>> roads in front of school were normally priority A for the plows but
>>>> during Christmas break not a priority at all. (From his reaction that
>>>> day the band teacher obviously didn't know that!)
>>>>
>>>>>> No question the plow crews in our area do a pretty good job of it but
>>>>>> no question it gets people's hackles up when stuff like that gets
>>>>>> done. But for sure while I definitely know cases where folks have
>>>>>> wanted to strangle the plow drivers it's been all words - this story
>>>>>> is the first I've heard of any actual action.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless the people of your area demand that sidewalk clearance gets
>>>>> comparable attention to street clearance, then shit like this will
>>>>> continue to happem.
>>>>
>>>> The consensus seems to be in our neighborhood "Rotsa ruck getting
>>>> weekend plowing....."
>>>>
>>>>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>>>>> at council meetings.
>>>>
>>>> I've been attending Council for 20 years and am on a first name basis
>>>> with every member of Council except one who was elected in November
>>>> and she and I seem to be on opposite sides of almost every issue. No
>>>> doubt Catherine knows who I am but no question the last two years at
>>>> Council have involved a lot of Zoom meetings vs. the more familiar in
>>>> person affairs where you do actually get to meet people and more
>>>> importantly the members of Council getting to know you (since I've
>>>> served on 4 council appointed citizen commissions and while I haven't
>>>> served in 5 years now that I'm both retired and widowed I have more
>>>> time for that sort of thing)
>>>
>>> This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.
>>>
>>> For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do
>>> is
>>> shovel snow off my driveway.
>>>
>>
>> Of course you can't thank the government for that; that's just a bonus
>> of living in semi-tropical LA.
>>
>> You haven't lived in LA all your life have you? I thought you'd
>> mentioned growing up in Texas or at least living there for a time. What
>> were your experiences with snow outside of California?
>
> I had to live for about 10 years in Washington DC for the second phase of my
> career and I loathed every winter. Always being cold, having to deal with
> coats and hats and mittens, the shoveling, the premature wear on your vehicle
> from all the salt and chemicals they put on the roads to deal with the snow
> and ice... gah! Couldn't wait to move somewhere sunny and warm with palm trees
> and beaches and none of that mess.
>
>
I certainly don't blame you. There are damned few Canadians who don't
envy the US its milder climate; that's why there are so many "snowbirds"
(or should I say "syrup backs"?) living there at least part of the year,
typically in California, Arizona or Florida. After all the shovelling
I've done in the last couple of weeks, I sometimes fantasize about
living someplace that is warm all year round myself....
--
Rhino

Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Adam H. Kerman
>>>Rhino

>>>I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
>>>love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
>>>pile less snow into the driveways they pass.

>>You have to clear a space beyond the edge of your driveway so there's
>>somewhere to shove the snow from the street; it helps a lot.

>The trick with snowblowing (and I suppose shoveling, if you're a peasant)
>is to clear 2-3 passes of snow on the street along the curb in front of
>your neighbor's house, (the one to the left, when facing the street)
>as this removes most of the snow the plow truck will dump in your
>driveway approach.

Yes, that's what I was getting at.

It doesn't matter. The snowplow driver knows the moment you've cleared
the driveway, and then shows up to clear the street.

On Monday, March 13, 2023 at 2:48:01 PM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>Adam H. Kerman
> >>>Rhino
>
> >>>I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
> >>>love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
> >>>pile less snow into the driveways they pass.
>
> >>You have to clear a space beyond the edge of your driveway so there's
> >>somewhere to shove the snow from the street; it helps a lot.
>
> >The trick with snowblowing (and I suppose shoveling, if you're a peasant)
> >is to clear 2-3 passes of snow on the street along the curb in front of
> >your neighbor's house, (the one to the left, when facing the street)
> >as this removes most of the snow the plow truck will dump in your
> >driveway approach.
> Yes, that's what I was getting at.
>
> It doesn't matter. The snowplow driver knows the moment you've cleared
> the driveway, and then shows up to clear the street.

Around me they manicure the culdesacs to push snow onto parkways while the straight curb dwellers get buried.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 19:00:38 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>This is what you lunatics get for living in those frozen hellscapes.
>
>For all my issues with California government, one thing I never have to do is
>shovel snow off my driveway.
>
How about wateri ng your plants during the summer months?