On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 16:24:12 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>This has not been an issue in my town - as far as I know - but my town
>has a policy that residents have to shovel their sidewalks down to bare
>concrete and for the entire width of the sidewalk. You don't have to
>shovel your driveway under this bylaw but, of course, if you don't it
>will be difficult to get vehicles in and out of the driveway.
>
>There have been proposals in years past that the city be responsible for
>clearing sidewalks and even a pilot project to try it in one area -
>ours! - but enthusiasm for this was not very high. I assume the cost was
>the issue but the newspaper never went into much detail about why. Mind
>you, the pilot project happened on a particularly mild winter and there
>was hardly anything to shovel so it wasn't a hardship to shovel it
>ourselves. By contrast, the last few weeks have involved several bouts
>of shovelling after a winter that had been almost snowless until quite
>recently.
>
>> There is no reason to take it out on snowplow drivers. Make the demands
>> at council meetings.
>
>I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
>love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
>pile less snow into the driveways they pass.
>--
>Rhino

Our muncipality doesn't get excited on the quality of shovelling as
long as they see a good faith effort made. Certainly while
temperatures have been in the 40F range recently our lawn is still
mostly covered in snow since it's on the N side of the property and
therefore usually in shade till about 3pm each day. Similarly our back
yard still has snow everywhere except our dog's favorite locations.
(Pretty much a straight line from our deck to the wooden chairs about
10' from the back fence)

Similarly in our neighborhood most of the snow is gone EXCEPT near the
edges of driveways and sidewalks where snow was piled higher and
deeper by those of us shovelling 7-10 days ago (which were then about
4-5' high but now about 2')

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 20:42:13 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

>I had to live for about 10 years in Washington DC for the second phase of my
>career and I loathed every winter. Always being cold, having to deal with
>coats and hats and mittens, the shoveling, the premature wear on your vehicle
>from all the salt and chemicals they put on the roads to deal with the snow
>and ice... gah! Couldn't wait to move somewhere sunny and warm with palm trees
>and beaches and none of that mess.

Can't speak to that but about 2 weeks ago I had a woman walking her
dog right after I had finished shovelling the sidewalk; I had just
returned to our garage to fetch the bag of salt and the scoop and
since she was walking I waited for her to leave and she thanked me for
"saving her dog's paws" by not salting till she had gone by.....

On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 21:41:15 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
wrote:

>On 3/12/2023 8:09 PM, shawn wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:56:42 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> The good thing about rowing a boat is you can stop when ever you want.
>> With shoveling snow people want to get it done as quickly as possible
>> so they can get out of the cold and not have to go back out to shovel
>> more until the next snow fall. At least that's what I expect most
>> people are thinking.
>
>Also, rowing is a familiar, consistent motion and effort, whereas
>shoveling can range from fluffy confetti to backbreaking brickloads.
>

For sure - nothing like weather going 4-5 degrees above freeze THEN
back below during the night with new light snow for the morning.

(And I speak as the father of two kids who were varsity rowers in
their high school days)

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:25:12 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>In heavy snow, the snowplow can still plow up the windrow blocking the
>sidewalk and it's unfair to expect the adjacent homeowner to clear that.
>Where I live, there's a snowplow with a 4'-width bucket on a small Caterpiller
>that's used to clear sidewalks.
>
During the past freeze what made me postal was Bobcat minitractors
fitted as you describe which would give priority treatment to the bike
lanes with the actual roads only getting plowed when they got around
to it - and I'm talking major arterials not side streets.

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 03:27:53 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>I agree that the snowplough drivers shouldn't be harrassed but I would
>>love to see if the engineers can figure out a way to make the ploughs
>>pile less snow into the driveways they pass.
>
>You have to clear a space beyond the edge of your driveway so there's
>somewhere to shove the snow from the street; it helps a lot.

In our area it was common to get 2-3' of plowed snow from the road
blocking your access to your driveway. Usually the salt trucks had
been around making that section of snow nice and hard so you had to
chip it with your shovel before you could remove it

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:21:45 -0400, Rhino
<no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>I certainly don't blame you. There are damned few Canadians who don't
>envy the US its milder climate; that's why there are so many "snowbirds"
>(or should I say "syrup backs"?) living there at least part of the year,
>typically in California, Arizona or Florida. After all the shovelling
>I've done in the last couple of weeks, I sometimes fantasize about
>living someplace that is warm all year round myself....

Snowbirds is the usual term and my grandparents (the Canadian ones not
my American grandparents) would winter first in Palm Springs, CA then
Tempe, AZ in winters and only gave it up when the costs of health
insurance escalated to unaffordable levels.

They're gone now and I'm now at the age that they were and haven't
been in the US since Feb 2020 (three guesses what stopped me though I
could certainly go now)

The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:

>>. . .

>Can't speak to that but about 2 weeks ago I had a woman walking her
>dog right after I had finished shovelling the sidewalk; I had just
>returned to our garage to fetch the bag of salt and the scoop and
>since she was walking I waited for her to leave and she thanked me for
>"saving her dog's paws" by not salting till she had gone by.....

Calcium chloride does not hurt the paws of dogs.

I've seen heavy salting with sodium chloride with the temperature above
freezing because people are idiots. Salting raising the freezing point
and you could cause ice to form at temperatures it wouldn't ordinarily
form at. I've also seen people use it at temperatures below 25 degrees
in which it cannot possibly work. You have to use calcium chloride as it
gets very cold.

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 04:59:34 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>>. . .
>
>>Can't speak to that but about 2 weeks ago I had a woman walking her
>>dog right after I had finished shovelling the sidewalk; I had just
>>returned to our garage to fetch the bag of salt and the scoop and
>>since she was walking I waited for her to leave and she thanked me for
>>"saving her dog's paws" by not salting till she had gone by.....
>
>Calcium chloride does not hurt the paws of dogs.
>
>I've seen heavy salting with sodium chloride with the temperature above
>freezing because people are idiots. Salting raising the freezing point
>and you could cause ice to form at temperatures it wouldn't ordinarily
>form at. I've also seen people use it at temperatures below 25 degrees
>in which it cannot possibly work. You have to use calcium chloride as it
>gets very cold.

:Last time I checked one of those bags (typically 10 or 20 lbs in our area) the contents included both of those.

I've got a bag in my carport that now that the snow in our area is
mostly melted (about 2/3 of my lawn is still covered) will probably be
ignored till next witner.

It's been above freezing for most of the last week

On 3/14/2023 12:21 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 21:41:15 -0400, moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 3/12/2023 8:09 PM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Mar 2023 23:56:42 +0000, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>> The good thing about rowing a boat is you can stop when ever you want.
>>> With shoveling snow people want to get it done as quickly as possible
>>> so they can get out of the cold and not have to go back out to shovel
>>> more until the next snow fall. At least that's what I expect most
>>> people are thinking.
>>
>> Also, rowing is a familiar, consistent motion and effort, whereas
>> shoveling can range from fluffy confetti to backbreaking brickloads.
>>
>
> For sure - nothing like weather going 4-5 degrees above freeze THEN
> back below during the night with new light snow for the morning.
>
> (And I speak as the father of two kids who were varsity rowers in
> their high school days)

FYA... I reread some version of this every few winters:

https://www.sunnyskyz.com/blog/2606/The-Diary-Of-A-Snow-Shoveler