"Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"

So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.

Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.

Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.

That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.

"Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:

John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.

The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.

This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.

Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).

Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>
> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>
> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
>
> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
>
> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
>
> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
>
> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
>
> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>
> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>
> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
>
> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).

I see the Trump image all over this.

Vote tomorrow.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:03:15 PM UTC, blackpo...@aol.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >
> > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> >
> > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> >
> > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> >
> > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> >
> > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> >
> > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> >
> > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> >
> > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> >
> > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world).. In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> >
> > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> I see the Trump image all over this.
>
> Vote tomorrow.

Is the book worth reading? At ~1200 pages, it sounds like a lot of flawed philosophy.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:03:15 PM UTC, blackpo...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >
> > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > >
> > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > >
> > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > >
> > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > >
> > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > >
> > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > >
> > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > >
> > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > >
> > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > I see the Trump image all over this.
> >
> > Vote tomorrow.
> Is the book worth reading? At ~1200 pages, it sounds like a lot of flawed philosophy.

It was certainly worth reading at the time. I practically worshiped Ayn Rand -- not at the level that I worshiped Poe, but she held a high place in the Pantheon. In retrospect, it seems a bit silly. I think it's a book for young men and women who are just setting out to take on the world.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:03:15 PM UTC, blackpo...@aol.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >
> > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > >
> > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > >
> > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > >
> > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > >
> > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > >
> > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > >
> > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > >
> > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > >
> > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > I see the Trump image all over this.
> >
> > Vote tomorrow.
> Is the book worth reading? At ~1200 pages, it sounds like a lot of flawed philosophy.

No. There's a reason I detest the author and it's due to her own words.

I operate very much as an individualist, but I regard unbridled individuality without commonly held principles a threat to other's individuality and eventually self defeating to one's own individuality.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:31:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-5, NancyGene wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 3:03:15 PM UTC, blackpo...@aol.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > >
> > > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > > >
> > > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > > >
> > > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > > >
> > > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > > >
> > > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project.. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > > >
> > > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > > >
> > > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > > >
> > > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > I see the Trump image all over this.
> > >
> > > Vote tomorrow.
> > Is the book worth reading? At ~1200 pages, it sounds like a lot of flawed philosophy.
> It was certainly worth reading at the time. I practically worshiped Ayn Rand -- not at the level that I worshiped Poe, but she held a high place in the Pantheon. In retrospect, it seems a bit silly. I think it's a book for young men and women who are just setting out to take on the world.

That's what I have heard Nick Cave and other former fans of Bukowski. Basically, that they grew up and out of their like of his work.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>
> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>
> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
>
> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
>
> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
>
> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
>
> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
>
> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>
> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>
> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
>
> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
>

PING George Dance!

Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >
> > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> >
> > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> >
> > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> >
> > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> >
> > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> >
> > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> >
> > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> >
> > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> >
> > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world).. In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> >
> > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> >
> PING George Dance!
>
> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?

Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:56:50 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >
> > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > >
> > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > >
> > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > >
> > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > >
> > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > >
> > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > >
> > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > >
> > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > >
> > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > >
> > PING George Dance!
> >
> > Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.

I read the thread and shrugged. Does that count?

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:56:50 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail..com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > >
> > > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > > >
> > > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > > >
> > > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > > >
> > > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > > >
> > > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project.. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > > >
> > > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > > >
> > > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > > >
> > > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > >
> > > PING George Dance!
> > >
> > > Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> > Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
> I read the thread and shrugged. Does that count?

Only if your world stopped moving at the time.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:11:14 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:56:50 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > >
> > > > > So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > > > >
> > > > > Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > > > >
> > > > > That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > > > >
> > > > > "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > > > >
> > > > > John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > > > >
> > > > > The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth.. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > > > >
> > > > > This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > > >
> > > > PING George Dance!
> > > >
> > > > Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> > > Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
> > I read the thread and shrugged. Does that count?
> Only if your world stopped moving at the time.

Whew! Thanks. That was a close one.

On 2022-11-08 3:45 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> PING George Dance!
>
> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?

I can understand your wanting to discuss /Atlas Shrugged/ with me, given
that your own gang crapped out. But, if /AS/ is what you want to
discuss, why would you start off by trolling with that rather ridiculous
strawman argument you were making in another thread? Did you think I'd
just let it pass?

George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-08 3:45 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>
>> PING George Dance!
>>
>> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?

> I can understand your wanting to discuss /Atlas Shrugged/ with me, given
> that your own gang crapped out. But, if /AS/ is what you want to
> discuss, why would you start off by trolling with that rather ridiculous
> strawman argument you were making in another thread? Did you think I'd
> just let it pass?

As you know, I prefer The Fountainhead, which influenced me more, but also loved Atlas Shrugged.

Politics aside, I think Ayn Rand was an excellent storyteller.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 8:06:44 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-08 3:45 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > PING George Dance!
> >
> > Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> I can understand your wanting to discuss /Atlas Shrugged/ with me, given
> that your own gang crapped out. But, if /AS/ is what you want to
> discuss, why would you start off by trolling with that rather ridiculous
> strawman argument you were making in another thread? Did you think I'd
> just let it pass?

I don't know which of the threads you're referring to, George, but I have never made a Strawman argument. That's your thing.

You misunderstood several of my statements in several of our recent/current discussions. However, I have no intention of rehashing them here.

You falsely claimed that I'd never read AS, and further claimed that I'd called John Galt a billionaire, which I would not have done (unless I were exceedingly drunk at the time). Of course, you also mistakenly claimed that Corey had called you a "Jew-fucker," so your memory is no more trustworthy than anyone else's.

I am offering you an opportunity to discuss a book that you have claimed to be a fan of. I'm quite rusty on it, having not read it in over 30 years, so there is little danger of my showing you up.

My only motivation for doing this, is that I am actively trying to encourage literary discussions at AAPC. I'm hoping that you are still in favor of those as well.

On 2022-11-09 9:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
wrote:
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
wrote:
>>> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>>>
>>> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when,
along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an
Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an
Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an
active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>>>
>>> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the
champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were
the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they
bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would
certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political
demagogue.
>>>
>>> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates --
who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist,
and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes
who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere
with their designs.
>>>
>>> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her
a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down
considerably.
>>>

Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure
some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.

>>> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her
downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read
Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of
the plot which ran something like this:
>>>
>>> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual
motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his
employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the
exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh
on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing
that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on
"strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his
compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's
group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian
pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and
torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding
political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society
based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free
himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his
dreams.
This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.

First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
story. There are 3 mysteries:
(1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
knows what it means.
(2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
(3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.

Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
to join him. But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the
first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about
events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.

The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
consequences.

Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
the world."

>>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.

So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
and stop the Destroyer.

That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
prevent disasters.

>>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
(1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
knows what it means.
(2) Who is the Destroyer?
(3) Who is the inventor of the motor?

Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.

The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.

>>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
at least see prosperity again).

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:04:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-09 9:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
> wrote:
> >> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
> wrote:
>
>>> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >>>
> >>> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when,
> along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an
> Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an
> Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an
> active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> >>>
> >>> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the
> champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were
> the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they
> bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would
> certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political
> demagogue.
> >>>
> >>> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates --
> who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist,
> and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes
> who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere
> with their designs.
> >>>
> >>> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her
> a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down
> considerably.
> >>>
> Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure
> some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
> varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.
> >>> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her
> downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read
> Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of
> the plot which ran something like this:
> >>>
> >>> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual
> motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his
> employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the
> exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh
> on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing
> that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on
> "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his
> compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's
> group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian
> pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and
> torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding
> political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society
> based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free
> himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his
> dreams.
> This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
> ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
> SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.
>
> First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
> story. There are 3 mysteries:
> (1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
> knows what it means.
> (2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
> (3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
> And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.
>
>
> Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
> plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
> job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
> to join him. But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the
> first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about
> events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
> evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
> sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
> you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
> speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.
>
> The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
> was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
> ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
> consequences.
>
> Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
> despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
> which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
> U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
> because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
> and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
> Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
> ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
> middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
> the world."
> >>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
> John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
> everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
> economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
> what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
> railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
> major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
> executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
> Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
> runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
> seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
> the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
> Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
> lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
> Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
> they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
> Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
> philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
> show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.
>
> So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
> it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
> incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
> decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
> just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
> consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
> their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
> that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
> Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
> and stop the Destroyer.
>
> That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
> factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
> Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
> as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
> her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
> prevent disasters.
> >>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
> introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
> unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
> interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
> Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
> At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
> exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
> mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
> (1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
> knows what it means.
> (2) Who is the Destroyer?
> (3) Who is the inventor of the motor?
>
> Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
> all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
> of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
> broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
> the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
> using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
> nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
> and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.
>
> The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.
> >>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
> a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
> image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
> genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
> perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
> of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
> virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
> Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
> starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
> which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
> powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
> at least see prosperity again).
> Galt doesn't shut down any corporations -- he merely finds his kind of
> people (rational, egoistic, self-interested< self-responsible) and
> convinces them to walk away. He doesn't destroy any lives: if the
> businesses fail, they fail because of how the other kind of people runs
> things in practice.
> >>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English
> professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic
> sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an
> endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of
> power in a Capitalist economy).
> Rand advocated a radically limited government: she supported the US
> Constitution, but saw it as something that could be improved. Her idea
> of government was one reduced to the core functions of protecting
> individual rights from force: police, courts, and a military, and
> supported without compulsory taxation. That's as far removed from
> Naziism as one can get.
> >>>
> >> PING George Dance!
> >>
> >> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why
> don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> >
> > Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
> You now have two ways to take this thread. Let's see what you choose.

On 2022-11-09 10:17 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:04:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On 2022-11-09 9:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
>> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>>>>>
>>>>> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when,
>> along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an
>> Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an
>> Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an
>> active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>>>>>
>>>>> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the
>> champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were
>> the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they
>> bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would
>> certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political
>> demagogue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates --
>> who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist,
>> and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes
>> who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere
>> with their designs.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her
>> a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down
>> considerably.
>>>>>
>> Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure
>> some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
>> varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.
>>>>> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her
>> downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read
>> Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of
>> the plot which ran something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual
>> motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his
>> employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the
>> exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh
>> on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing
>> that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on
>> "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his
>> compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's
>> group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian
>> pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and
>> torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding
>> political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society
>> based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free
>> himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his
>> dreams.
>> This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
>> ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
>> SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.
>>
>> First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
>> story. There are 3 mysteries:
>> (1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
>> knows what it means.
>> (2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
>> (3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
>> And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.
>>
>>
>> Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
>> plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
>> job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
>> to join him. But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the
>> first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about
>> events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
>> evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
>> sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
>> you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
>> speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.
>>
>> The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
>> was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
>> ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
>> consequences.
>>
>> Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
>> despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
>> which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
>> U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
>> because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
>> and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
>> Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
>> ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
>> middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
>> the world."
>>>>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
>> John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
>> everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
>> economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
>> what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
>> railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
>> major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
>> executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
>> Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
>> runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
>> seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>> You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
>> the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
>> Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
>> lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
>> Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
>> they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
>> Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
>> philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
>> show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.
>>
>> So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
>> it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
>> incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
>> decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
>> just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
>> consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
>> their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
>> that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
>> Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
>> and stop the Destroyer.
>>
>> That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
>> factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
>> Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
>> as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
>> her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
>> prevent disasters.
>>>>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
>> introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
>> unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
>> interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
>> Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
>> At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
>> exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
>> mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>> In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
>> (1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
>> knows what it means.
>> (2) Who is the Destroyer?
>> (3) Who is the inventor of the motor?
>>
>> Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
>> all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
>> of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
>> broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
>> the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
>> using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
>> nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
>> and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.
>>
>> The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.
>>>>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
>> a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
>> image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
>> genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
>> perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
>> of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
>> virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
>> Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
>> starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
>> which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
>> powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
>> at least see prosperity again).
>> Galt doesn't shut down any corporations -- he merely finds his kind of
>> people (rational, egoistic, self-interested< self-responsible) and
>> convinces them to walk away. He doesn't destroy any lives: if the
>> businesses fail, they fail because of how the other kind of people runs
>> things in practice.
>>>>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English
>> professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic
>> sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an
>> endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of
>> power in a Capitalist economy).
>> Rand advocated a radically limited government: she supported the US
>> Constitution, but saw it as something that could be improved. Her idea
>> of government was one reduced to the core functions of protecting
>> individual rights from force: police, courts, and a military, and
>> supported without compulsory taxation. That's as far removed from
>> Naziism as one can get.
>>>>>
>>>> PING George Dance!
>>>>
>>>> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why
>> don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
>>>
>>> Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
>> You now have two ways to take this thread. Let's see what you choose.
>
> Well put, George.
>
> As you know, I'm a long time fan of Ayn Rand, so I may get in on this discussion if I'm inspired, soon.
>
> 🙂

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:32:12 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-09 10:17 p.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 10:04:53 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-09 9:56 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 3:45:04 PM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
> >> wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when,
> >> along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an
> >> Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an
> >> Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an
> >> active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the
> >> champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were
> >> the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they
> >> bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would
> >> certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political
> >> demagogue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates --
> >> who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist,
> >> and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes
> >> who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere
> >> with their designs.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her
> >> a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down
> >> considerably.
> >>>>>
> >> Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure
> >> some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
> >> varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.
> >>>>> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her
> >> downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read
> >> Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of
> >> the plot which ran something like this:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual
> >> motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his
> >> employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the
> >> exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh
> >> on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing
> >> that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on
> >> "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his
> >> compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's
> >> group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian
> >> pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and
> >> torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding
> >> political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society
> >> based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free
> >> himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his
> >> dreams.
> >> This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
> >> ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
> >> SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.
> >>
> >> First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
> >> story. There are 3 mysteries:
> >> (1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
> >> knows what it means.
> >> (2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
> >> (3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
> >> And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.
> >>
> >>
> >> Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
> >> plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
> >> job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
> >> to join him. But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the
> >> first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about
> >> events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
> >> evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
> >> sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
> >> you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
> >> speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.
> >>
> >> The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
> >> was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
> >> ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
> >> consequences.
> >>
> >> Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
> >> despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
> >> which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
> >> U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
> >> because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
> >> and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
> >> Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
> >> ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
> >> middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
> >> the world."
> >>>>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
> >> John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
> >> everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
> >> economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
> >> what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
> >> railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
> >> major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
> >> executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
> >> Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
> >> runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
> >> seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> >> You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
> >> the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
> >> Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
> >> lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
> >> Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
> >> they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
> >> Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
> >> philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
> >> show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.
> >>
> >> So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
> >> it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
> >> incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
> >> decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
> >> just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
> >> consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
> >> their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
> >> that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
> >> Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
> >> and stop the Destroyer.
> >>
> >> That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
> >> factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
> >> Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
> >> as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
> >> her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
> >> prevent disasters.
> >>>>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
> >> introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
> >> unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
> >> interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
> >> Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
> >> At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
> >> exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
> >> mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> >> In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
> >> (1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
> >> knows what it means.
> >> (2) Who is the Destroyer?
> >> (3) Who is the inventor of the motor?
> >>
> >> Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
> >> all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
> >> of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
> >> broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
> >> the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
> >> using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
> >> nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
> >> and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.
> >>
> >> The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.
> >>>>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
> >> a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
> >> image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
> >> genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
> >> perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
> >> of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
> >> virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
> >> Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
> >> starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
> >> which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
> >> powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
> >> at least see prosperity again).
> >> Galt doesn't shut down any corporations -- he merely finds his kind of
> >> people (rational, egoistic, self-interested< self-responsible) and
> >> convinces them to walk away. He doesn't destroy any lives: if the
> >> businesses fail, they fail because of how the other kind of people runs
> >> things in practice.
> >>>>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English
> >> professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic
> >> sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an
> >> endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of
> >> power in a Capitalist economy).
> >> Rand advocated a radically limited government: she supported the US
> >> Constitution, but saw it as something that could be improved. Her idea
> >> of government was one reduced to the core functions of protecting
> >> individual rights from force: police, courts, and a military, and
> >> supported without compulsory taxation. That's as far removed from
> >> Naziism as one can get.
> >>>>>
> >>>> PING George Dance!
> >>>>
> >>>> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why
> >> don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> >>>
> >>> Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
> >> You now have two ways to take this thread. Let's see what you choose.
> >
> > Well put, George.
> >
> > As you know, I'm a long time fan of Ayn Rand, so I may get in on this discussion if I'm inspired, soon.
> >
>
> That would be great, but I suspect you won't find time. I had a rough
> enough time finding the 90 minutes straight it took me to write that.
> And I was only able to do it that quickly because I gave up the idea of
> organizing it as an essay, and just started jotting things down as they
> occurred to me.

On 2022-11-09 10:04 p.m., George J. Dance wrote:

(a quick read for needed corrections)

>
>
> Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure

Your opening the essay with your own experience adds a nice ...

> some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
> varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.
>

> This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
> ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
> SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.
>
> First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
> story. There are 3 mysteries:
> (1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
> knows what it means.
> (2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
> (3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
>
> And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.
>
> Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
> plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
> job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
> to join him.  But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the

....But I'm afraid you don'w remember, or never got in the ...

> first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about

.... It's not just a novel about ...

> events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
> evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
> sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
> you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
> speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.
>
> The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
> was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
> ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
> consequences.
>
> Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
> despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
> which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
> U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
> because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
> and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
> Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
> ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
> middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
> the world."
>
> >>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
> John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
> everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
> economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
> what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
> railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
> major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
> executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
> Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
> runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
> seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
> the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
> Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
> lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
> Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
> they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
> Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
> philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
> show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.
>
> So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
> it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
> incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
> decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
> just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
> consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
> their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
> that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
> Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
> and stop the Destroyer.
>
> That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
> factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
> Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
> as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
> her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
> prevent disasters.
>
>
> >>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
> introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
> unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
> interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
> Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
> At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
> exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
> mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
> (1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
> knows what it means.
> (2) Who is the Destroyer?
> (3) Who is the inventor of the motor?
>
> Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
> all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
> of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
> broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
> the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
> using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
> nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
> and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.
>
> The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.
>
> >>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
> a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
> image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
> genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
> perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
> of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
> virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
> Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
> starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
> which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
> powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
> at least see prosperity again).
>
> Galt doesn't shut down any corporations -- he merely finds his kind of
> people (rational, egoistic, self-interested< self-responsible) and
> convinces them to walk away. He doesn't destroy any lives: if the
> businesses fail, they fail because of how the other kind of people runs
> things in practice.
>
> >>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English
> professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic
> sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an
> endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of
> power in a Capitalist economy).
>
> Rand advocated a radically limited government: she supported the US
> Constitution, but saw it as something that could be improved. Her idea
> of government was one reduced to the core functions of protecting
> individual rights from force: police, courts, and a military, and
> supported without compulsory taxation. That's as far removed from
> Naziism as one can get.
>
>
> >>>
> >> PING George Dance!
> >>
> >> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why
> don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
> >
> > Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
>
> You now have two ways to take this thread. Let's see what you choose.
>
>

George J. Dance wrote:

>

> (a quick read for needed corrections)

>>
>>
>> Your opening with the essay adda a nice personal touch, which I'm sure

> Your opening the essay with your own experience adds a nice ...

>> some would like, but I find it distracting. There's nothing in those
>> varied reactions that I think needs or deserves comment.
>>

>> This is so far off that I actually believe that you read the book years
>> ago; I think if you'd cheated and quickly read through a CliffsNotes or
>> SparkNotes (sp), you'd probably have a better understanding of it.
>>
>> First of all, Atlas Shrugged (at least the first part) is a mystery
>> story. There are 3 mysteries:
>> (1) "Who is John Galt", the question everyone keeps asking but no one
>> knows what it means.
>> (2) What's causing the collapse of the economy? Who's behind it?
>> (3) In part 2, who invented this miraculous motor?
> >
>> And you gave them all away in your first paragraph on the book.
>>
>> Your summary of what Galt did is accurate enough; he worked at a motor
>> plant, where he invented a new type of motor, but ended up leaving his
>> job to go on "strike" and dedicated 12 years to finding others like him
>> to join him.  But I'm afraid you don't remember, or novel got in the

> ....But I'm afraid you don'w remember, or never got in the ...

>> first place, what the novel's about. It's not just about a novel about

> .... It's not just a novel about ...

>> events; it has a theme. And I'm afraid that your essay doesn't give any
>> evidence of understanding that theme. As a consequence you can't make
>> sense of what Galt did -- you know what he did, but not why -- and
>> you've tried to fill in the holes with your own original thoughts and
>> speculations, about the evil fossil fuel companies and the like.
>>
>> The novel's theme is the role of the mind in man's existence, and she
>> was trying to show the connection between political and philosophical
>> ideas, instantiated or embodied in her different characters, and their
>> consequences.
>>
>> Rand, as you know, was an immigrant from Soviet Russia, which she
>> despised; and during the 1930s and the 1940s she saw the same ideas,
>> which she blamed for the collapse of Russian society, taking root in the
>> U.S. That's particularly clear with this case: Galt left his company
>> because the new employer, who'd inherited the company, held a meeting
>> and announced that the company would now be run as in the /Communist
>> Manifesto/ -- employers were expected to work according to their
>> ability, and be paid according to their need. Galt walked out in the
>> middle of the meeting, vowing as a parting shot to "stop the motor of
>> the world."
>>
>> >>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is
>> John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that
>> everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the
>> economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or
>> what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental
>> railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the
>> major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their
>> executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank
>> Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character)
>> runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a
>> seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>> You're right that Galt comes in late in the book (at the beginning of
>> the third section. Before that the focus is really on the female lead,
>> Dagny Taggart (just as the focus in her earlier novel was on the female
>> lead, Dominique Francon) And he's not as interesting a character as
>> Dagny. Rand's heroines are her most "realistic" characters, because
>> they're conflicted. All her other characters are much like those of
>> Dostoevsky (one of her major influences). They instantiate different
>> philosophical or ideological viewpoints, and their lives are meant to
>> show the working out of those viewpoints in the characters' lives.
>>
>> So it's best to start with Dagny. She's the VP of a railroad, and runs
>> it as best she can; the president is her brother, Jim, but he's
>> incompetent, and afraid of responsibility; he'd rather leave the
>> decisions to her, and simply take the credit for them later. It's not
>> just him; Dagny is noting more people like that all around her, and the
>> consequent disappearance of people willing to act on their own, make
>> their own decisins, and take responsibility. So many are disappearing
>> that she becomes convinced that there's someone she nicknames "the
>> Destroyer" luring them away somehow. So she sets out on a quest to find
>> and stop the Destroyer.
>>
>> That leads her to Minnesota, where she finds the motor in an abandoned
>> factory, recognizes its potential, and spends most of her free time in
>> Book II on a personal quest to find its inventor. Not that she has much;
>> as more people disappear, the country continues to fall apart, including
>> her company, and she has to spend more and more time just trying to
>> prevent disasters.
>>
>>
>> >>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand
>> introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story
>> unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an
>> interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz
>> Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance).
>> At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and
>> exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political
>> mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>> In parts I and II, there are three mysteries:
>> (1) "Who is John Galt," the slogan that everyone repeats, but no one
>> knows what it means.
>> (2) Who is the Destroyer?
>> (3) Who is the inventor of the motor?
>>
>> Since you've spoiled the mystery, I don't mind saying that the questions
>> all have the same answer. And yes, when those are solved the book's less
>> of a page-turner. Rand does her best to make it dramatic -- Galt
>> broadcasts a speech to the world, resulting in the strike going viral;
>> the government arrests him, and tries to persuade him to cooperate,
>> using everything from appeals to the greater good to torture. But
>> nothing works, his friends break him out, and they fly back to Colorado
>> and literally watch the lights going out across the U.S.A.
>>
>> The end. Literally. That's the end of the book.
>>
>> >>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that
>> a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own
>> image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the
>> genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was
>> perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit
>> of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted
>> virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations,
>> Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and
>> starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order
>> which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and
>> powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will
>> at least see prosperity again).
>>
>> Galt doesn't shut down any corporations -- he merely finds his kind of
>> people (rational, egoistic, self-interested< self-responsible) and
>> convinces them to walk away. He doesn't destroy any lives: if the
>> businesses fail, they fail because of how the other kind of people runs
>> things in practice.
>>
>> >>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English
>> professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic
>> sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an
>> endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of
>> power in a Capitalist economy).
>>
>> Rand advocated a radically limited government: she supported the US
>> Constitution, but saw it as something that could be improved. Her idea
>> of government was one reduced to the core functions of protecting
>> individual rights from force: police, courts, and a military, and
>> supported without compulsory taxation. That's as far removed from
>> Naziism as one can get.
>>
>>
>> >>>
>> >> PING George Dance!
>> >>
>> >> Instead of endlessly insisting that your wiki page is sentient, why
>> don't you offer your views on Atlas Shrugged?
>> >
>> > Hmm... I guess that George Dance hasn't read Atlas Shrugged.
>>
>> You now have two ways to take this thread. Let's see what you choose.

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>
> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>
> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
>
> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
>
> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
>
> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
>
> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
>
> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>
> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>
> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
>
> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).

Good morning, Michael.

To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.

Thanks.

Spam-I-Am wrote:

> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>>
>> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
>>
>> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
>>
>> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
>>
>> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably..
>>
>> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
>>
>> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams..
>>
>> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
>>
>> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
>>
>> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
>>
>> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).

> Good morning, Michael.

> To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
> and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
> thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
> BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
> last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.

> Thanks.

At least this thread was useful to you.

🙂

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:00 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Spam-I-Am wrote:
>
> > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >>
> >> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> >>
> >> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> >>
> >> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> >>
> >> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> >>
> >> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> >>
> >> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> >>
> >> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> >>
> >> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> >>
> >> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> >>
> >> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > Good morning, Michael.
>
> > To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
> > and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
> > thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
> > BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
> > last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.
>
> > Thanks.
> At least this thread was useful to you.
>
> 🙂

Please excuse me. Sometimes I get so full of myself
that I am absolutely no good to anyone else until I buy
new shoes, which I’ll be attending to later this morning.
Thank you all for your patience, and have a pleasant day.

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:00 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >
> > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > >> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >>
> > >> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > >>
> > >> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > >>
> > >> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > >>
> > >> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > >>
> > >> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > >>
> > >> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > >>
> > >> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > >>
> > >> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > >>
> > >> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > >>
> > >> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > Good morning, Michael.
> >
> > > To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
> > > and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
> > > thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
> > > BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
> > > last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.
> >
> > > Thanks.
> > At least this thread was useful to you.
> >
>
> Please excuse me. Sometimes I get so full of myself
> that I am absolutely no good to anyone else until I buy
> new shoes, which I’ll be attending to later this morning.
> Thank you all for your patience, and have a pleasant day.

Great news, have a good day, Corey.

🙂

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:34:48 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:00 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:45:08 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > >>
> > > >> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > > >>
> > > >> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > > >>
> > > >> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > > >>
> > > >> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > > >>
> > > >> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > > >>
> > > >> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > > >>
> > > >> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > > >>
> > > >> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > > >>
> > > >> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > > Good morning, Michael.
> > >
> > > > To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
> > > > and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
> > > > thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
> > > > BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
> > > > last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.
> > >
> > > > Thanks.
> > > At least this thread was useful to you.
> > >
> >
> > Please excuse me. Sometimes I get so full of myself
> > that I am absolutely no good to anyone else until I buy
> > new shoes, which I’ll be attending to later this morning.
> > Thank you all for your patience, and have a pleasant day.
> Great news, have a good day, Corey.
>
> 🙂

Clarks.