On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 4:21:04 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:23:22 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:36:38 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:34:48 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:32:13 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > > >> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> So proclaimed the head of my university's English department when, along with two of my fellow classmates, I suggested that we include an Ayn Rand novel in our curriculum. I should explain that this was an Honors Program class wherein the students were supposed to be taking an active in deciding what the curriculum would be.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Needless to say, I was shocked at his reaction. Wasn't Ayn Rand the champion of rugged individualism? Yes, Howard Roark and John Galt were the personification of the Nietzschean Übermensch, but as such, they bowed to no authority -- including that of the state. Such men would certainly never raise their hands in obedient salute to a political demagogue.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Ayn Rand was a literary hero to me and several of my classmates -- who had actually introduced me to her works. As a self-centered, egoist, and mild sociopath, I fully identified with Rand's self-absorbed heroes who would take on the world at the drop of a hat if dared to interfere with their designs.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> That was back in 1989 or 90. And, while I still don't consider her a Nazi, my opinion regarding Rand's books, and ideas, has gone down considerably.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> "Atlas Shrugged" is both Rand's literary magnum opus and her downfall as a serious novelist. It's been 32 or 33 years since I read Rand's novel, and I no longer remember many of the ridiculous details of the plot which ran something like this:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> John Galt, an ingenious, self-centered loner invents a perpetual motion engine which he dreams will revolutionize the world. However, his employers, viewing his invention as a threat to a world based on the exploitative use of fossil fuel, see it as a threat and put the kibosh on his project. Galt, therefore, sets out to convince (and, failing that, to terrorize) the world's industrial leaders into going on "strike" -- shutting down their businesses and joining him at his compound where they worship the Almighty Dollar (literally). Galt's group of economic terrorists includes a billionaire turned Scandinavian pirate! Eventually the remaining evil corporate heads capture and torture Galt, who spends approximately 100 pages making a grandstanding political speech calling for a hybrid Meritocratic-Oligarchic society based on Capitalism. Somehow, when all seems lost, he manages to free himself from his captors and to bring about the brave new world of his dreams.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> The novel starts out brilliantly by posing the question "Who is John Galt?" The answer is that no one knows. It is a saying that everyone has adopted, and use a fatalistic acceptance of the economically worsening times, without understanding either its origin or what it actually means.. Dagny Taggart, who runs an intercontinental railroad, struggles to keep her railroad afloat, even though all of the major corporations are going bankrupt, closing down, and their executives disappearing off the face of the earth. Her boyfriend, Hank Reardon (his initials suggest that he is another Howard Roark character) runs a major steel mill, and they stand together in the face of a seemingly inevitable, failing world economy.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> This makes for an exciting, dystopian mystery… until Rand introduces John Galt (about midway through). Not only is Galt's story unbelievable, but the focus of the story shifts from Dagny Taggart (an interesting heroine) to Galt (an idealized version of Dr. Heinz Doofensmirtz achieving his longstanding dream of Tri-State Dominance). At this point the story has deteriorated into palpable nonsense, and exists solely as a platform on which Galt will become Rand's political mouthpiece for a 100 or so pages.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Nevertheless, it appealed to me at the time, because it showed that a lone individual could shut down, and reinvent the world (in his own image, of course), provided that he possessed the will (and had the genius) to accomplish it. It also taught (albeit implicitly) that it was perfectly fine to destroy the lives of countless others in the pursuit of one's own, selfish goals (selfishness and egoism are much-tauted virtues in Ayn Rand's world). In shutting down the world's corporations, Galt renders countless blue-collar workers unemployed, homeless, and starving in the street… but he's doing it to bring about a New Order which will benefit everyone (well, it will benefit the rich and powerful, but in a pre-Reaganomic "trickle down" theory, the masses will at least see prosperity again).
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Looking back on it, I'm inclined to agree with my English professor: Ayn Rand was a Nazi. She was an advocate of a Darwinistic sociopolitical system wherein the geniuses teamed with the wealthy in an endless pursuit of the Almighty Dollar (money being the ultimate form of power in a Capitalist economy).
> > > > > > > Good morning, Michael.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > To be perfectly honest, I think Rand was a bit of a loon, a hack writer,
> > > > > > > and I have zero interest in discussing Atlas Shrugged, which I haven’t
> > > > > > > thought about seriously since it was required reading in high school,
> > > > > > > BUT (please note the big but) I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread
> > > > > > > last night, as I was suffering a bit of insomnia and this really did the trick.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks.
> > > > > > At least this thread was useful to you.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please excuse me. Sometimes I get so full of myself
> > > > > that I am absolutely no good to anyone else until I buy
> > > > > new shoes, which I’ll be attending to later this morning.
> > > > > Thank you all for your patience, and have a pleasant day.
> > > > Great news, have a good day, Corey.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Clarks.
> >
> > https://www.facebook.com/groups/105463832836304/permalink/5646173148765317/
> >
> > I knew that I'd seen a photo of Clark's Deli somewhere around here. 🙂
> Cool, Clark's Deli was know across the land as the Rush Limbaugh local headquarters, listeners would gather, have coffee, and listen to and discuss his radio broadcasts there in the 1980s-1990s... bothe pro and con voices were heard there....
>
> https://mapio.net/images-p/15867492.jpg
>
> **** 40th Street 41st Street 42nd Street 2nd Avenue 3rd Avenue 1st Avenue Hemlock Drive Comer Street ****

As Gary Dunn wrote:

"Clark's Lunchroom and Deli was Rush Limbaugh's official "Rush Room" precinct for Columbus Georgia and he used to mention it on the air and say hello to his Columbus listeners there inside the special "Rush Room" section of the restaurant where people could eat lunch and listen to Rush's show over the speakers at the same time while exchanging laughs and camaraderie with each other over their digust for Hillary. LOL!"

Could explain why I didn't stop there so often.

🙂

Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"

Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

HTH and HAND.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

You really only know that one A.R. quote, and are dead set on milking it to the bone.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >
>> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

> You really only know that one A.R. quote

Not really.

🙂

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
>
> > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> Not really.

You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.

And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.

Do the math.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:18:39 AM UTC-5, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> >
> > > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> > Not really.
> You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.
>
> And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.
>
> Do the math.

Oh... right... you don't know how.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:18:39 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> >
> > > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> > Not really.
> You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.
>
> And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.

You either forgot or missed the posts, then.

🙂

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:18:39 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > >
> > > > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> > > Not really.
> > You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.
> >
> > And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.
> You either forgot or missed the posts, then.

Riiiiiiiight.

Had there been any such posts, a search for the quotes would have pulled them up immediately.

Donkey's playing Duckery again.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:18:39 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > > >
> > > > > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> > > > Not really.
> > > You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.
> > >
> > > And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.
> > You either forgot or missed the posts, then.
> Riiiiiiiight.
>
> Had there been any such posts, a search for the quotes would have

You want me to repost the threads?

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:27:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:18 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:18:39 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:09:46 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > >> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > > >> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > > > >
> > > > > > You really only know that one A.R. quote
> > > > > Not really.
> > > > You must have posted it at least two dozen times over the past 5 years.
> > > >
> > > > And I've never seen you post any other A.R. quotes.
> > > You either forgot or missed the posts, then.
> > Riiiiiiiight.
> >
> > Had there been any such posts, a search for the quotes would have
> You want me to repost the threads?

I want you to go away.

On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:35:28 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-10 11:39 a.m., jdcha...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > While I naturally and obviously(being a far left wing, liberal, Progressive activist) disagree vehemently with Rand in regard to finacial issues, there is some common ground that can be acknoledged in regard to social issues...
> >
>
> There are issues that libertarians and "liberal" Progressives can agree
> and cooperate on: free speech, opposition to wars, and legalization of
> pot are a few they have. Rand opposed such co-operation -- in fact, it's
> one of the things she and her followers have attacked libertarians for
> -- but she'd have agreed with the positions.
>
> >
> > It may suprise some to know that Rand refused to vote for Reagan, due
> to his anti abortion stance... Rand was adamently Pro Choice...
> That's only surprising to those who don't understand that Rand's
> political positions were always derived from her philosophy. (She saw
> normative politics as a branch of moral philosophy or ethics.) Stem
> cells are not people, but at that point just a part of a woman's body;
> and outlawing all abortions at that point was just government telling
> women that "society" can dictate what they can do with their bodies.
> >
> >also agreed with her position in regard to the military draft, that it
> was wrong...
> >
> Of course. The idea that a government can tell anyone what career to
> follow repelled her. The fact that many people who complied with that
> career decision they didn't make were killed or permanently injured,
> only made it worse.
>
> But that's not a Communist position, is it? IIRC, the Soviet Union,
> Cuba, and communist China all have military drafts. I thought Communists
> only opposed the U.S. draft.
> >
> > and enjoyed "The Fountainhead" on a strictly plot oriented level
> >
> Glad to hear it. You might get into /AS/ -- I found it a page-turner,
> but then no one spoiled the plot for me.
> >
> > , but nevertheless, for the most part, find her ideas WAY too harsh
> and dogmatic and hateful and mean spirited... Her comments were often
> gratuitously nasty...
> >
> A lot of her nasty comments comments have been misinterpreted. For
> instance, her comments in /AS/ about "moochers" and "looters" was
> referring to governments and their corporate allies. Yet some leftist
> writers try to pretend she was talking about about the poor, the
> disabled, people of color, and the like.
> >
> > at best, she was a sui generes, over the top, somewhat fascinating,
> "character", Imo...
> >
> She was an enormously influential writer, and though her style was
> idiosyncratic, out of step for the times, a very good writer.

All politics aside, I now enjoy The Fountainhead as a story, I can relate to most of the characters.

On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >
> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

She only believed in her own creative freedom. I remember Dance telling me once how much of a bitch she could be about other's creative freedom...

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> >
>> > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>> Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

> She only believed in her own creative freedom. I remember Dance telling me once how much of a bitch she could be about other's creative freedom...

George Dance told you that?

In what context?

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> She only believed in her own creative freedom

I do not think you are correct....

https://c4ss.org/content/23725

**************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”

"What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > She only believed in her own creative freedom
> I do not think you are correct....
>
> https://c4ss.org/content/23725
>
> **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
>
> "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************

You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing...

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
> > I do not think you are correct....
> >
> > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
> >
> > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
> >
> > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
> You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..

Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
> > > I do not think you are correct....
> > >
> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
> > >
> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
> > >
> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.

I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined by your actual actions here. Your words are cheap as you and your buddies have proven here and your actions here have been damning.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>
>> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
>> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
>> > > I do not think you are correct....
>> > >
>> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
>> > >
>> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
>> > >
>> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
>> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
>> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.

> I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined

Which is...?

I know, I want to kow if YOU know... ha ha.

Ash Wurthing wrote:

> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
>> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
>> > > I do not think you are correct....
>> > >
>> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
>> > >
>> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
>> > >
>> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
>> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
>> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.

> I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined by your actual actions here. Your words are cheap as you and your buddies have proven here and your actions here have been damning.

I think that you may be confused about the definition of fair use, Ash.

HTH and HAND.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >
> > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.

> She only believed in her own creative freedom. I remember Dance telling me once how much of a bitch she could be about other's creative freedom...

You probably are misremembering, then; though you could be deliberately misstating.
.

On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 10:51:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> Ash Wurthing wrote:
>
> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> >> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> >> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
> >> > > I do not think you are correct....
> >> > >
> >> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
> >> > >
> >> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
> >> > >
> >> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
> >> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
> >> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.
>
> > I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined by your actual actions here. Your words are cheap as you and your buddies have proven here and your actions here have been damning.

> I think that you may be confused about the definition of fair use, Ash.

I think the Ashtroll has just learned a new way to play IKYABWAI, considering he's used it twice in a row here.

(1) He can't give any example of how Rand opposed creative freedom, so he simply says it's something "Dance" told him.
(2) He can't say what he means by "fair use", so he simply says he's using "your" definition.

On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:02:45 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 10:51:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > Ash Wurthing wrote:
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
> > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
> > >> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > >> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > >> > > > > >
> > >> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
> > >> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
> > >> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
> > >> > > I do not think you are correct....
> > >> > >
> > >> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
> > >> > >
> > >> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
> > >> > >
> > >> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
> > >> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
> > >> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.
> >
> > > I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined by your actual actions here. Your words are cheap as you and your buddies have proven here and your actions here have been damning.
>
> > I think that you may be confused about the definition of fair use, Ash.
> I think the Ashtroll has just learned a new way to play IKYABWAI, considering he's used it twice in a row here.
>
> (1) He can't give any example of how Rand opposed creative freedom, so he simply says it's something "Dance" told him.
> (2) He can't say what he means by "fair use", so he simply says he's using "your" definition.

Or George Dance is just pulling one of his stock-in-trade troll tricks of demanding that one search through the archives to back up everything they say.

Most of the time, the archive search will reveal that the statements George is challenging are correct. Occasionally, they will show that the person being challenged had misremembered (attributing a Donkey quote to George, or such).

Either way, the work required to locate a specific statement from the archives is equivalent to that of looking for the proverbial need in a haystack, and both George and his Donkey employ this troll tactic to create the impression of a refutation where none, in fact, exists.

Michael Pendragon wrote:

> On Saturday, December 24, 2022 at 9:02:45 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
>> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 10:51:33 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:27:38 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:25:24 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 4:18:18 PM UTC-5, Zod wrote:
>> > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:21:34 PM UTC-5, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>> > >> > > > On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 10:38:01 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
>> > >> > > > > Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> > >> > > > > >
>> > >> > > > > > "Ayn Rand is a Nazi!"
>> > >> > > > > Not at all, Ayn Rand believed in creative freedom of the artist, while the Nazis obviously didn't.
>> > >> > > > She only believed in her own creative freedom
>> > >> > > I do not think you are correct....
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > https://c4ss.org/content/23725
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > **************************** Ayn Rand regarded patents and copyrights as “the legal implementation of the base of all property rights: a man’s right to the product of his mind.”
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > "What the patent and copyright laws acknowledge is the paramount role of mental effort in the production of material values; these laws protect the mind’s contribution in its purest form: the origination of an idea. The subject of patents and copyrights is intellectual property. An idea as such cannot be protected until it has been given a material form. An invention has to be embodied in a physical model before it can be patented; a story has to be written or printed. But what the patent or copyright protects is not the physical object as such, but the idea which it embodies. By forbidding an unauthorized reproduction of the object, the law declares, in effect, that the physical labor of copying is not the source of the object’s value, that that value is created by the originator of the idea and may not be used without his consent; thus the law establishes the property right of a mind to that which it has brought into existence." --Ayn Rand **************************************************
>> > >> > You do know that restricts the fair use you always justify your buddies doing..
>> > >> Depends on what you define FAIR USE as....!!.
>> >
>> > > I am going by the fair use definition that you and your buddy defined by your actual actions here. Your words are cheap as you and your buddies have proven here and your actions here have been damning.
>>
>> > I think that you may be confused about the definition of fair use, Ash.
>> I think the Ashtroll has just learned a new way to play IKYABWAI, considering he's used it twice in a row here.
>>
>> (1) He can't give any example of how Rand opposed creative freedom, so he simply says it's something "Dance" told him.
>> (2) He can't say what he means by "fair use", so he simply says he's using "your" definition.

> Or George Dance is just pulling one of his stock-in-trade troll tricks of demanding that one search through the archives to back up everything they say.

> Most of the time, the archive search will reveal that the statements George is challenging are correct. Occasionally, they will show that the person being challenged had misremembered (attributing a Donkey quote to George, or such).

> Either way, the work required to locate a specific statement from the archives is equivalent to that of looking for the proverbial need in a haystack, and both George and his Donkey employ this troll tactic to create the impression of a refutation where none, in fact, exists.

Not true, as you and others are often proven wrong by the archived posts.

HTH and HAND