On 5/11/23 5:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>> By Clarence Page
>> Chicago Tribune
>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>
>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chokehold-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotvby-story.html
>
> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three screwdrivers
> in their pockets, according to reports."
>
> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The issue
> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was whether
> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
> pockets.
>
>

No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to kill you
stupid motherfucker. Tell it to the Oath Keepers.

On May 12, 2023 at 2:39:28 AM PDT, "trotsky" <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

> On 5/11/23 5:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>>> By Clarence Page
>>> Chicago Tribune
>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chokehold-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotvby-story.html
>>
>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
>> screwdrivers
>> in their pockets, according to reports."
>>
>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
>> issue
>> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was whether
>> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
>> pockets.
>>
> No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to skill you
> stupid motherfucker.

That's a helluva sentence there, Mr. Typo Nazi.

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>On May 12, 2023 at 2:39:28 AM PDT, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>On 5/11/23 5:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

>>>"They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
>>>screwdrivers
>>>in their pockets, according to reports."

>>>A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
>>>issue wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed),
>>>it was whether Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were
>>>concealed in their pockets.

>>No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to skill you
>>stupid motherfucker.

>That's a helluva sentence there, Mr. Typo Nazi.

Goetz was hoping to be threatened by a group of misguided yout's armed with
screwdrivers in an encounter to teach them a building trade?

In article <u3mcao$1qkus$5@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >On May 12, 2023 at 2:39:28 AM PDT, trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >>On 5/11/23 5:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>
> >>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
> >>> screwdrivers in their pockets, according to reports."
>
> >>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts.
> >>> The issue wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were*
> >>> armed), it was whether Goetz knew they were armed since the
> >>> screwdrivers were concealed in their pockets.
>
> >> No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to skill you
> >> stupid motherfucker.
>
> > That's a helluva sentence there, Mr. Typo Nazi.
>
> Goetz was hoping to be threatened by a group of misguided yout's armed
> with screwdrivers in an encounter to teach them a building trade?

Apparently, because as we all know, Hutt is perfect with his use of
language and never makes a mistake, even as he petulantly harangues
others for theirs.

On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>>> By Clarence Page
>>> Chicago Tribune
>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chokeh
>>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotvby-
>>> story.html
>>
>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three screwdrivers
>> in their pockets, according to reports."
>>
>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The issue
>> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was whether
>> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
>> pockets.
>
>
> Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
> during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
> likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
> screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
> change receptacles of video game consoles.
>
> Goetz had the right to defend himself.

He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.

Where he erred was in firing at
> the two perps who were running away.
>
> The shootings drove the city government crazy. It figured that if
> citizens were actually to start defending themselves effectively on the
> subway and elsewhere, all would soon descend into chaos.

Former US Marine charged with manslaughter in NYC subway choking death
By Luc Cohen
Reuters
May 12, 2023
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/former-us-marine-surrenders-be-charged-choking-death-new-york-subway-cnn-2023-05-12/

Marine veteran who fatally choked NYC subway rider Jordan Neely is freed
pending trial
By JAKE OFFENHARTZ, BOBBY CAINA CALVAN and MICHAEL R. SISAK
AP
May 12, 2023
https://apnews.com/article/jordan-neely-subway-chokehold-3f36c61a13532eead65cf4f8155f13b8

Daniel Perry was charged this morning and released on cash bail. Second
degree manslaughter, which requires a jury to find that the defendant
engaged in reckless conduct creating an unjustifiable risk of death, and
then consciously disregarded that risk.

I'm not buying it.

How the hell did Alvin Bragg not invoke the felony murder rule to
prosecute the other two passengers who helped restrain Neely? Surely it
was all unlawful restraint and therefore an underlying crime for the
purpose of the felony murder rule, yes? Bet he was tempted.

In article <u3mdap$1qs09$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Former US Marine charged with manslaughter in NYC subway choking death
> By Luc Cohen
> Reuters
> May 12, 2023
> https://www.reuters.com/world/us/former-us-marine-surrenders-be-charged-chokin
> g-death-new-york-subway-cnn-2023-05-12/
>
> Marine veteran who fatally choked NYC subway rider Jordan Neely is freed
> pending trial
> By JAKE OFFENHARTZ, BOBBY CAINA CALVAN and MICHAEL R. SISAK
> AP
> May 12, 2023
> https://apnews.com/article/jordan-neely-subway-chokehold-3f36c61a13532eead65cf
> 4f8155f13b8
>
> Daniel Perry was charged this morning and released on cash bail. Second
> degree manslaughter, which requires a jury to find that the defendant
> engaged in reckless conduct creating an unjustifiable risk of death, and
> then consciously disregarded that risk.
>
> I'm not buying it.
>
> How the hell did Alvin Bragg not invoke the felony murder rule to
> prosecute the other two passengers who helped restrain Neely? Surely it
> was all unlawful restraint and therefore an underlying crime for the
> purpose of the felony murder rule, yes? Bet he was tempted.

Well, to do that he'd have to charge a black man which would be
inconvenient for the racism angle I'm sure he's preparing to use at
trial.

On 5/12/23 4:06 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On May 12, 2023 at 2:39:28 AM PDT, "trotsky" <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/23 5:18 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>>>> By Clarence Page
>>>> Chicago Tribune
>>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chokehold-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotvby-story.html
>>>
>>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
>>> screwdrivers
>>> in their pockets, according to reports."
>>>
>>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
>>> issue
>>> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was whether
>>> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
>>> pockets.
>>>
>> No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to skill you
>> stupid motherfucker.
>
> That's a helluva sentence there, Mr. Typo Nazi.

I thought I deleted that and posted the corrected version. Such is
life. It's good though, it gives you a reason to ignore the gist of the
post which you're too much of a eunuch to respond to anyway. I'm sure
the Oath Keepers love you long time though.

In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
<gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> > <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
> >>> By Clarence Page
> >>> Chicago Tribune
> >>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chok
> >>> eh
> >>>
> >>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotv
> >>> by-
> >>> story.html
> >>
> >> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
> >> screwdrivers
> >> in their pockets, according to reports."
> >>
> >> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
> >> issue
> >> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was
> >> whether
> >> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
> >> pockets.
> >
> >
> > Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
> > during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
> > likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
> > screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
> > change receptacles of video game consoles.
> >
> > Goetz had the right to defend himself.
>
>
> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.

They attacked Goetz. Goetz fought back. Was he looking for a fight?
Certainly. Would there have been one if the mugging hadn't been
attempted? No. Did Goetz attack an innocent party? No.

> Where he erred was in firing at
> > the two perps who were running away.
> >
> > The shootings drove the city government crazy. It figured that if
> > citizens were actually to start defending themselves effectively on the
> > subway and elsewhere, all would soon descend into chaos.

In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
<gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> > <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
> >>> By Clarence Page
> >>> Chicago Tribune
> >>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chok
> >>> eh
> >>>
> >>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotv
> >>> by-
> >>> story.html
> >>
> >> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
> >> screwdrivers
> >> in their pockets, according to reports."
> >>
> >> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
> >> issue
> >> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was
> >> whether
> >> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
> >> pockets.
> >
> >
> > Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
> > during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
> > likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
> > screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
> > change receptacles of video game consoles.
> >
> > Goetz had the right to defend himself.
>
>
> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.

I'd agree that he was there waiting for trouble so he could react to it
with deadly force but, nevertheless, he was approached and then
threatened.

On 5/12/23 6:46 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Friday, 5 May 2023 at 10:46:22 UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
>> I'm seeing a lot of really stupid people saying the subway citizen having been
>> a Marine means that he should be an expert on choke holds, so the excessive
>> force rules for cops should apply to him as well.
>>
>> Listen, idiots. We all know you have never actually met a vet and that the sum
>> total of your understanding of military basic training is that you
>> disdainfully hate-watched FULL METAL JACKET once, but outside of a few very
>> specific MOSs, a kid who does high school wrestling for a year gets more
>> training on how to properly choke people than does the average Marine.
>>
>> Restraining choke holds are not a thing that happens for most Marines. Usually
>> they just shoot the enemy and be done with it. Maybe stab him if they're out
>> of ammo.
>>
>> And if your big blue cities weren't such lawless fucking shitholes, regular
>> people wouldn't be forced into situations where they have to apply chokeholds
>> on lunatics who've already been arrested and released 40 times.
>
> Oh look what he killed. Another fine, upstanding LUNATIC.
>
> https://www.foxnews.com/us/jordan-neely-history-attacks-subway-riders-nyc-chokehold-death
>

You're just jealous of those with legitimate identities, so this garners
a rating of horseshit.

On 5/12/23 9:00 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
> <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>> In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>>>>> By Clarence Page
>>>>> Chicago Tribune
>>>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-chok
>>>>> eh
>>>>>
>>>>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkhotv
>>>>> by-
>>>>> story.html
>>>>
>>>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for three
>>>> screwdrivers
>>>> in their pockets, according to reports."
>>>>
>>>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew bolts. The
>>>> issue
>>>> wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly *were* armed), it was
>>>> whether
>>>> Goetz knew they were armed since the screwdrivers were concealed in their
>>>> pockets.
>>>
>>>
>>> Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
>>> during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
>>> likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
>>> screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
>>> change receptacles of video game consoles.
>>>
>>> Goetz had the right to defend himself.
>>
>>
>> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.
>
>
> I'd agree that he was there waiting for trouble so he could react to it
> with deadly force but, nevertheless, he was approached and then
> threatened.

Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.

In article <ZyI7M.2898003$9sn9.603133@fx17.iad>, trotsky
<gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

> On 5/12/23 9:00 PM, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
> > <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
> >>> In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> >>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
> >>>>> By Clarence Page
> >>>>> Chicago Tribune
> >>>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-ch
> >>>>> ok
> >>>>> eh
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkho
> >>>>> tv
> >>>>> by-
> >>>>> story.html
> >>>>
> >>>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for
> >>>> three screwdrivers in their pockets, according to reports."
> >>>>
> >>>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew
> >>>> bolts. The issue wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly
> >>>> *were* armed), it was whether Goetz knew they were armed since
> >>>> the screwdrivers were concealed in their pockets.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
> >>> during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
> >>> likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
> >>> screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
> >>> change receptacles of video game consoles.
> >>>
> >>> Goetz had the right to defend himself.
> >>
> >>
> >> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.
> >
> >
> > I'd agree that he was there waiting for trouble so he could react to it
> > with deadly force but, nevertheless, he was approached and then
> > threatened.
>
>
> Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.

Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble. It's
not at all the same thing.

My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
it. I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
Goetz's kind of reaction. I'm a little surprised there wasn't more of
the same.

On 5/13/2023 9:48 AM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <ZyI7M.2898003$9sn9.603133@fx17.iad>, trotsky
> <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/12/23 9:00 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>> In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
>>> <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>>>> In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
>>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
>>>>>>> By Clarence Page
>>>>>>> Chicago Tribune
>>>>>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-ch
>>>>>>> ok
>>>>>>> eh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkho
>>>>>>> tv
>>>>>>> by-
>>>>>>> story.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for
>>>>>> three screwdrivers in their pockets, according to reports."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew
>>>>>> bolts. The issue wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly
>>>>>> *were* armed), it was whether Goetz knew they were armed since
>>>>>> the screwdrivers were concealed in their pockets.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
>>>>> during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
>>>>> likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
>>>>> screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
>>>>> change receptacles of video game consoles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Goetz had the right to defend himself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd agree that he was there waiting for trouble so he could react to it
>>> with deadly force but, nevertheless, he was approached and then
>>> threatened.
>>
>>
>> Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.
>
>
> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble. It's
> not at all the same thing.
>
> My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
> firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
> the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
> shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
> subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
> it. I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
> were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
> Goetz's kind of reaction.

> I'm a little surprised there wasn't more of the same.

See DEATH WISH (1974). A little publicity goes a long way.

In article <ZRN7M.707543$PXw7.686868@fx45.iad>, moviePig
<pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 5/13/2023 9:48 AM, A Friend wrote:
> > In article <ZyI7M.2898003$9sn9.603133@fx17.iad>, trotsky
> > <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/12/23 9:00 PM, A Friend wrote:
> >>> In article <rKy7M.2717456$iS99.829944@fx16.iad>, trotsky
> >>> <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 5/11/23 8:42 PM, A Friend wrote:
> >>>>> In article <ZB6dnRbHDvRN9MD5nZ2dnZfqn_hj4p2d@giganews.com>, BTR1701
> >>>>> <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On May 10, 2023 at 4:39:16 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Clarence Page: Don't jump to judgment in NYC subway chokehold death
> >>>>>>> By Clarence Page
> >>>>>>> Chicago Tribune
> >>>>>>> May 10, 2023 at 5:00 am
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/clarence-page/ct-column-subway-
> >>>>>>> ch
> >>>>>>> ok
> >>>>>>> eh
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> old-death-jordan-neely-daniel-penny-page-20230510-6hzkssnywzbzvoayodpkho
> >>>>>>> tv
> >>>>>>> by-
> >>>>>>> story.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "They had asked Goetz for money but were unarmed except for
> >>>>>> three screwdrivers in their pockets, according to reports."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A screwdriver is just a stabbing weapon that can also unscrew
> >>>>>> bolts. The issue wasn't whether they were unarmed (they clearly
> >>>>>> *were* armed), it was whether Goetz knew they were armed since
> >>>>>> the screwdrivers were concealed in their pockets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Goetz said two of the four displayed screwdrivers with sharpened blades
> >>>>> during the attempted mugging. It's the kind of weapon you're not
> >>>>> likely to be busted for. There was also some representation that the
> >>>>> screwdrivers were used, or were to be used, for breaking into the
> >>>>> change receptacles of video game consoles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Goetz had the right to defend himself.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> He wasn't there at random, he was there to kill. You're wrong.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd agree that he was there waiting for trouble so he could react to it
> >>> with deadly force but, nevertheless, he was approached and then
> >>> threatened.
> >>
> >>
> >> Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.
> >
> >
> > Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble. It's
> > not at all the same thing.
> >
> > My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
> > firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
> > the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
> > shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
> > subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
> > it. I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
> > were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
> > Goetz's kind of reaction.
>
> > I'm a little surprised there wasn't more of the same.
>
> See DEATH WISH (1974). A little publicity goes a long way.

Maybe. In the film, he's a big hero. In the book, not so much.

In article <130520230948336156%nope@noway.com>,
A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
> firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
> the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
> shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
> subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
> it.

Kinda like now.

> I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
> were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
> Goetz's kind of reaction.

You just described L.A. in 2023. We recently had a city councilwoman-- a
self-described communist-- say exactly that regarding crime complaints
in her district from the vagrant encampments she's allowed to flourish:
Residents should just get used to it and stop complaining because it's
not gonna change any time soon.

In article <atropos-2B298D.11532313052023@news.giganews.com>, BTR1701
<atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <130520230948336156%nope@noway.com>,
> A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:
>
> > My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
> > firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
> > the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
> > shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
> > subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
> > it.
>
> Kinda like now.
>
> > I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
> > were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
> > Goetz's kind of reaction.
>
> You just described L.A. in 2023. We recently had a city councilwoman-- a
> self-described communist-- say exactly that regarding crime complaints
> in her district from the vagrant encampments she's allowed to flourish:
> Residents should just get used to it and stop complaining because it's
> not gonna change any time soon.

This is an engraved invitation to vigilantes ... and I wouldn't blame
them for accepting. I'm tired of politicians treating these matters as
mere intellectual exercises.

On Fri, 12 May 2023 21:50:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>>No, the issue was with Goetz being there with the intent to skill you
>>>stupid motherfucker.
>
>>That's a helluva sentence there, Mr. Typo Nazi.
>
>Goetz was hoping to be threatened by a group of misguided yout's armed with
>screwdrivers in an encounter to teach them a building trade?

More like making his own personal remake of Dirty Harry!

> A Friend
>
> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble.

No he didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting

On Sat, 13 May 2023 15:44:10 -0700 (PDT), Ed Stasiak
<edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:

>> A Friend
>>
>> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble.
>
>No he didn't.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting

If he wasn't expecting trouble why was he carrying a gun? He could
have had something like bear spray and been just as safe. He may not
have wanted to kill someone but he went there expecting it and got
what he was looking out for.

A Friend wrote:
>trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

>>>. . .
>>Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.

>Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble. It's
>not at all the same thing.

Kenosha had been extremely unruly for days, not peaceful in any way,
before Rittenhouse arrived. Kenosha could have gotten Trump re-elected
if Trump hadn't acted like Trump and tried to act presidential. Kenosha
was Trump's very last chance to get a second term of office. If Trump had
acted presidential, he'd have gained support from suburban voters given
that these voters were afraid of the possibility of Kenosha-like events
happening in their community.

There is no way to apologize for what those shitheads were doing in
Kenosha because it might have given us four more years of Trump.

trots is lying, of course, but no, Kenosha wasn't peaceful, not at all.

What Rittenhouse did was a side show.

>My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
>firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
>the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
>shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
>subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
>it. I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
>were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
>Goetz's kind of reaction. I'm a little surprised there wasn't more of
>the same.

I have a friend who won't take the "L" anymore and takes very long bus
rides instead because they don't have the crazy people on them. I still
take the "L" regularly. The worst I see are smokers; I change cars. I
guess I've been lucky not encountering someone mentally ill or criminal.

shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>Sat, 13 May 2023 15:44:10 -0700 (PDT), Ed Stasiak <edstasiak1067@gmail.com>:

>>>A Friend

>>>Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble.

>>No he didn't.

>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting

>If he wasn't expecting trouble why was he carrying a gun? He could
>have had something like bear spray and been just as safe. He may not
>have wanted to kill someone but he went there expecting it and got
>what he was looking out for.

Rittenhouse wasn't expecting a mostly-peaceful protestor to try to take
his weapon away from him, let alone several. He claimed he went to
Kenosha to guard a position in front of a business, like a used car lot,
to keep thieves and vandals at bay.

He was expecting trouble but not from a protestor.

On May 13, 2023 at 4:35:00 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, 13 May 2023 15:44:10 -0700 (PDT), Ed Stasiak
> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> A Friend
>>>
>>> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble.
>>
>> No he didn't.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting
>
> If he wasn't expecting trouble why was he carrying a gun?

I carried a gun to the movies last night. I wasn't expecting trouble. But if
trouble showed up, I was ready for it.

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> A Friend wrote:
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Kyle Shittenhouse used the same "defense." He's a murderer too.
>
>> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble. It's
>> not at all the same thing.
>
> Kenosha had been extremely unruly for days, not peaceful in any way,
> before Rittenhouse arrived. Kenosha could have gotten Trump re-elected
> if Trump hadn't acted like Trump and tried to act presidential. Kenosha
> was Trump's very last chance to get a second term of office. If Trump had
> acted presidential, he'd have gained support from suburban voters given
> that these voters were afraid of the possibility of Kenosha-like events
> happening in their community.
>
> There is no way to apologize for what those shitheads were doing in
> Kenosha because it might have given us four more years of Trump.
>
> trots is lying, of course, but no, Kenosha wasn't peaceful, not at all.
>
> What Rittenhouse did was a side show.
>
>> My problems with Goetz are that his displaying the weapon without
>> firing it probably would have done the job, and that he fired at two of
>> the four perps while they were retreating. However, the Goetz
>> shootings came against a background of people being attacked on the
>> subways, and the city proclaiming itself helpless to do anything about
>> it. I lived there then, and I was as tired of it as anyone else. We
>> were all just supposed to put up with it. The city was inviting
>> Goetz's kind of reaction. I'm a little surprised there wasn't more of
>> the same.
>
> I have a friend who won't take the "L" anymore and takes very long bus
> rides instead because they don't have the crazy people on them. I still
> take the "L" regularly. The worst I see are smokers; I change cars. I
> guess I've been lucky not encountering someone mentally ill or criminal.
>

For that you have RAT!

--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

On 5/13/23 7:00 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On May 13, 2023 at 4:35:00 PM PDT, "shawn" <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 13 May 2023 15:44:10 -0700 (PDT), Ed Stasiak
>> <edstasiak1067@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> A Friend
>>>>
>>>> Rittenhouse charged into a peaceful protest, looking for trouble.
>>>
>>> No he didn't.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenosha_unrest_shooting
>>
>> If he wasn't expecting trouble why was he carrying a gun?
>
> I carried a gun to the movies last night. I wasn't expecting trouble. But if
> trouble showed up, I was ready for it.

Well anonyshitted and Oath Keeper'd.