https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc

A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
crime, then kills himself

Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 4:37:42 AM UTC-4, trotsky wrote:
> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>
> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> crime, then kills himself
>
>
> Four more lives snuffed out of existence

He wasn't thinking straight. Here is the evidence that mental health issues, not guns, should be the focus:

A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate crime, then kills himself.

He was wearing a bullet-resistant vest.

In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>
> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> crime, then kills himself
>
>
> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
just an innocent tool" line.

super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

>>https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc

>>A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>crime, then kills himself

>>Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

>That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>just an innocent tool" line.

That's an incredibly racist sentiment you are expressing there. Had that
black family been armed and had they been able to defend themselves,
perhaps the perpetrator might have been killed, preventing him from
killing his targets.

But "because black", they didn't have the right to self defense and
because a gun is never "just an innocent tool", if they'd own a gun,
they'd have used it to commit a violent crime and not for self defense
purposes.

Fuck you for making me defend gun ownership against your undisguised racism.

super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>> crime, then kills himself
>>
>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>
>That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>just an innocent tool" line.

TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

On 2023-08-28 14:34:24 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>
>
>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>> crime, then kills himself
>
>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>
>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>> just an innocent tool" line.
>
> That's an incredibly racist sentiment you are expressing there. Had that
> black family been armed and had they been able to defend themselves,
> perhaps the perpetrator might have been killed, preventing him from
> killing his targets.
>
> But "because black", they didn't have the right to self defense and
> because a gun is never "just an innocent tool", if they'd own a gun,
> they'd have used it to commit a violent crime and not for self defense
> purposes.
>
> Fuck you for making me defend gun ownership against your undisguised racism.

Pffft, you're the one who introduced "racism" into it clown. I'm just
relating the sentiment of most law enforcement officials across the
country. The race of the victims, the perpetrator and the sheriff (who
happens to be Black) is neither here nor there.

On 2023-08-28 14:34:24 +0000, Ubiquitous said:

> super70s@super70s.invalid wrote:
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>> crime, then kills himself
>>>
>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>
>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>> just an innocent tool" line.
>
>
> TROLL-O-METER
>
> 5* 6* *7
> 4* *8
> 3* *9
> 2* *10
> 1* | *stuporous
> 0* -*- *catatonic
> * |\ *comatose
> * \ *clinical death
> * \ *biological death
> * _\/ *demonic apparition
> * * *damned for all eternity
>

UBI-METER

5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *frivolous
0* -*- *doltish
* |\ *imbecilic
* \ *contrived
* \ *sophomoric
* _\/ *childish
* * *infantile

super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>On 2023-08-28 14:34:24 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

>>>>https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>>A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>>>crime, then kills himself

>>>>Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

>>>That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>>>sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>>>citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>>>just an innocent tool" line.

>>That's an incredibly racist sentiment you are expressing there. Had that
>>black family been armed and had they been able to defend themselves,
>>perhaps the perpetrator might have been killed, preventing him from
>>killing his targets.

>>But "because black", they didn't have the right to self defense and
>>because a gun is never "just an innocent tool", if they'd own a gun,
>>they'd have used it to commit a violent crime and not for self defense
>>purposes.

>>Fuck you for making me defend gun ownership against your undisguised racism.

>Pffft, you're the one who introduced "racism" into it clown.

"It's just an innocent tool."

Your sarcastic remarks lets us know that it's the GUN that created the
evil. But for the GUN, the individual never would have intended to
commit any violent crime. No armed adult is responsible for his own behavior
because the GUN has altered his ability to think.

More like given the lack of a gun, the victims had no abililty to defend
themselves against a perpetrator armed with a gun.

Inanimate objects are ALWAYS innocent. Adults are ALWAYS responsible for
the consequences of their own behavior.

>I'm just relating the sentiment of most law enforcement officials across
>the country.

You weren't elected to be their spokes-sockpuppet.

>The race of the victims, the perpetrator and the sheriff (who
>happens to be Black) is neither here nor there.

trots was talking about a murder-suicide that was a hate crime.

On 2023-08-28 17:45:57 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>> The race of the victims, the perpetrator and the sheriff (who
>> happens to be Black) is neither here nor there.
>
> trots was talking about a murder-suicide that was a hate crime.

My post had nothing to do with Trotsky identifying the race of those
involved idiot, you started in on some harangue about racism totally
unprovoked by me.

In article
<super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
> > https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
> > f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
> >
> > A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> > crime, then kills himself

> > Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>
> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
> just an innocent tool" line.

Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.

However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.

In article <ucib9g$1nu9v$1@dont-email.me>,
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> >trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>
> >>https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8a
> >>a35121507dd4f7dcc
>
> >>A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> >>crime, then kills himself
>
> >>Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>
> >That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
> >sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
> >citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
> >just an innocent tool" line.
>
> That's an incredibly racist sentiment you are expressing there. Had that
> black family been armed and had they been able to defend themselves,
> perhaps the perpetrator might have been killed, preventing him from
> killing his targets.
>
> But "because black", they didn't have the right to self defense and
> because a gun is never "just an innocent tool", if they'd own a gun,
> they'd have used it to commit a violent crime and not for self defense
> purposes.
>
> Fuck you for making me defend gun ownership against your undisguised racism.

Why would you not want to defend gun ownership?

On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article
> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>
>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>> crime, then kills himself
>
>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>
>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>> just an innocent tool" line.
>
> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>
> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.

Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...

https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones-gun-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K/

In article <fl7HM.75490$fRmf.28292@fx02.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article
> > <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> > super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
> >> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
> >>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
> >>>
> >>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> >>> crime, then kills himself
> >
> >>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
> >>
> >> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
> >> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
> >> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
> >> just an innocent tool" line.
> >
> > Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
> >
> > However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
> > sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
> > overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>
> Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...
>
> https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones-gu
> n-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K/

Oh, I don't know... 24 years as a law enforcement officer myself,
working with other cops all over the country, at all levels, local,
state, federal, and rarely, if ever, encountering a pro-gun confiscation
cop. (The BATFE excepted, of course. They're a unique breed of LEO.)

Every cop I know-- and I mean every-- has a personally-owned AR-15 or
its equivalent, and would be required to give it up if such laws came
into effect, just like Joe Citizen would. None of them are in favor of
that.

> trotsky
>
> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> crime, then kills himself
> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

Heard about this on NPR this morning and they mentioned the 21 year old shooter
had been committed for 72 hours for mental problems a year or two back and since
NPR _did_ mention it, (and quickly moved on) I'm guessing this is yet another case
of someone hopped up on Wall Street pharmaceutical corporation psychomeds,
which are being widely over-prescribed.

https://i.postimg.cc/yYp2RZFP/psycho-meds-43543524.jpg

On 8/28/2023 4:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <fl7HM.75490$fRmf.28292@fx02.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
>>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>>>
>>>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>>>> crime, then kills himself
>>>
>>>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>>>
>>>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>>>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>>>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>>>> just an innocent tool" line.
>>>
>>> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>>>
>>> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
>>> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
>>> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>>
>> Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...
>>
>> https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones-gu
>> n-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K/
>
> Oh, I don't know... 24 years as a law enforcement officer myself,
> working with other cops all over the country, at all levels, local,
> state, federal, and rarely, if ever, encountering a pro-gun confiscation
> cop. (The BATFE excepted, of course. They're a unique breed of LEO.)
>
> Every cop I know-- and I mean every-- has a personally-owned AR-15 or
> its equivalent, and would be required to give it up if such laws came
> into effect, just like Joe Citizen would. None of them are in favor of
> that.

Yet, that poll I linked to (and which I'd guess is your best cite)
contains loaded gems like this one.

"The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe
that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the
onset of an active-shooter incident."

And, if you can argue that people who have guns want to keep them, then
I can argue that gunshot victims want them taken away. I don't know
who's "right", but I bet the latter win most head-to-head debates.

On 8/28/2023 6:20 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> trotsky
>>
>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>> crime, then kills himself
>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>
> Heard about this on NPR this morning and they mentioned the 21 year old shooter
> had been committed for 72 hours for mental problems a year or two back and since
> NPR _did_ mention it, (and quickly moved on) I'm guessing this is yet another case
> of someone hopped up on Wall Street pharmaceutical corporation psychomeds,
> which are being widely over-prescribed.
>
> https://i.postimg.cc/yYp2RZFP/psycho-meds-43543524.jpg

I'd submit that, for enabling mass murder, drugs are incremental.

> moviePig
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > Heard about this on NPR this morning and they mentioned the 21 year old shooter
> > had been committed for 72 hours for mental problems a year or two back and since
> > NPR _did_ mention it, (and quickly moved on) I'm guessing this is yet another case
> > of someone hopped up on Wall Street pharmaceutical corporation psychomeds,
> > which are being widely over-prescribed.
> > https://i.postimg.cc/yYp2RZFP/psycho-meds-43543524.jpg
>
> I'd submit that, for enabling mass murder, drugs are incremental.

I'd suggest the psychomeds are instrumental, or do you really believe this guy just
decided to murder three people and then off himself because he was a racist?

super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>On 2023-08-28 17:45:57 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>>super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

>>>The race of the victims, the perpetrator and the sheriff (who
>>>happens to be Black) is neither here nor there.

>>trots was talking about a murder-suicide that was a hate crime.

>My post had nothing to do with Trotsky identifying the race of those
>involved idiot, you started in on some harangue about racism totally
>unprovoked by me.

You cut out the quote in which you expressed racist sentiment:

That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA,
most sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want
ordinary citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and
denounce the "it's just an innocent tool" line.

You anthropomorphized the gun. You're claiming that the gun, in and of
itself, creates the evil heart in the perpetrator of violent crime. That
you don't believe an adult is responsible for any crimes he might commit
is outrageous. That you believe the gun is responsible for the crime is
beyond stupid.

That you DON'T believe that potential crime victims -- in this case, a
black family killed in what appears to be a hate crime -- should be
armed to protect themselves from becoming victims of gun violence is
indeed racist.

In article <Hh9HM.322488$Fgta.185238@fx10.iad>,
moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 8/28/2023 4:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <fl7HM.75490$fRmf.28292@fx02.iad>,
> > moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> >>> In article
> >>> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> >>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
> >>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
> >>>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
> >>>>> crime, then kills himself
> >>>
> >>>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
> >>>>
> >>>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
> >>>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
> >>>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
> >>>> just an innocent tool" line.
> >>>
> >>> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
> >>>
> >>> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
> >>> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
> >>> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
> >>
> >> Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...
> >>
> >> https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones
> >> -gun-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K
> >> /
> >
> > Oh, I don't know... 24 years as a law enforcement officer myself,
> > working with other cops all over the country, at all levels, local,
> > state, federal, and rarely, if ever, encountering a pro-gun confiscation
> > cop. (The BATFE excepted, of course. They're a unique breed of LEO.)
> >
> > Every cop I know-- and I mean every-- has a personally-owned AR-15 or
> > its equivalent, and would be required to give it up if such laws came
> > into effect, just like Joe Citizen would. None of them are in favor of
> > that.
>
> Yet, that poll I linked to (and which I'd guess is your best cite)
> contains loaded gems like this one.
>
> "The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe
> that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the
> onset of an active-shooter incident."
>
> And, if you can argue that people who have guns want to keep them, then
> I can argue that gunshot victims want them taken away. I don't know
> who's "right", but I bet the latter win most head-to-head debates.

Why would you bet that and what criteria are you using to determine a
"win"?

And it's not a binary. If you're going to include gunshot victims as a
category, why would you exclude those whose lives were saved by guns
from the debate? E.g., my sister is alive today because she had a gun
the night she was attacked.

On 8/28/2023 6:55 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> moviePig
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> Heard about this on NPR this morning and they mentioned the 21 year old shooter
>>> had been committed for 72 hours for mental problems a year or two back and since
>>> NPR _did_ mention it, (and quickly moved on) I'm guessing this is yet another case
>>> of someone hopped up on Wall Street pharmaceutical corporation psychomeds,
>>> which are being widely over-prescribed.
>>> https://i.postimg.cc/yYp2RZFP/psycho-meds-43543524.jpg
>>
>> I'd submit that, for enabling mass murder, drugs are incremental.
>
> I'd suggest the psychomeds are instrumental, or do you really believe this guy just
> decided to murder three people and then off himself because he was a racist?

Yes, I can well imagine that, even were he drug-free, his thoughts would
often turn toward violent solutions to the black-devil infestation. I
think Jekyll&Hyde is, for all practical purposes, a fictional excuse.

On 8/28/2023 7:05 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <Hh9HM.322488$Fgta.185238@fx10.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/28/2023 4:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <fl7HM.75490$fRmf.28292@fx02.iad>,
>>> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article
>>>>> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>>>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>>>>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>>>>>> crime, then kills himself
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>>>>>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>>>>>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>>>>>> just an innocent tool" line.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
>>>>> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
>>>>> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>>>>
>>>> Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...
>>>>
>>>> https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones
>>>> -gun-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K
>>>> /
>>>
>>> Oh, I don't know... 24 years as a law enforcement officer myself,
>>> working with other cops all over the country, at all levels, local,
>>> state, federal, and rarely, if ever, encountering a pro-gun confiscation
>>> cop. (The BATFE excepted, of course. They're a unique breed of LEO.)
>>>
>>> Every cop I know-- and I mean every-- has a personally-owned AR-15 or
>>> its equivalent, and would be required to give it up if such laws came
>>> into effect, just like Joe Citizen would. None of them are in favor of
>>> that.
>>
>> Yet, that poll I linked to (and which I'd guess is your best cite)
>> contains loaded gems like this one.
>>
>> "The overwhelming majority (almost 90 percent) of officers believe
>> that casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present at the
>> onset of an active-shooter incident."
>>
>> And, if you can argue that people who have guns want to keep them, then
>> I can argue that gunshot victims want them taken away. I don't know
>> who's "right", but I bet the latter win most head-to-head debates.
>
> Why would you bet that and what criteria are you using to determine a
> "win"?
>
> And it's not a binary. If you're going to include gunshot victims as a
> category, why would you exclude those whose lives were saved by guns
> from the debate? E.g., my sister is alive today because she had a gun
> the night she was attacked.

A "win" in public opinion (yes, often irrespective of logic).

Meanwhile, I'd guess that the victims far outnumber the saved.

On 8/28/23 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article
> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>
>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>> crime, then kills himself
>
>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>
>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>> just an innocent tool" line.
>
> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>
> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>

I'm a gun owner. I'm in favor of not allowing people to own weapons who
shouldn't. Why would anybody want them to?

So, tell us then... why was Trump and his buddies first actions to allow
more mentally ill people to own guns? Because that's exactly what these
gun rights advocates did.

> Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to get guns when he rolled back Obama regulation
> In 2017, Trump quietly rolled back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illness to buy guns.

Are you seriously saying cops on the street are overwhelmingly in favor
of this? Is that your law enforcement training speaking? Or your vast
legal experience?

Naahhh... it's just more pro-gun bullshit.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:

>>>>https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc

>>>>A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>>>crime, then kills himself

>>>>Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.

>>>That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>>>sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>>>citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>>>just an innocent tool" line.

>>That's an incredibly racist sentiment you are expressing there. Had that
>>black family been armed and had they been able to defend themselves,
>>perhaps the perpetrator might have been killed, preventing him from
>>killing his targets.

>>But "because black", they didn't have the right to self defense and
>>because a gun is never "just an innocent tool", if they'd own a gun,
>>they'd have used it to commit a violent crime and not for self defense
>>purposes.

>>Fuck you for making me defend gun ownership against your undisguised racism.

>Why would you not want to defend gun ownership?

You've had more training than anyone who isn't in special forces or
S.W.A.T. or someone who shoots competitively, or actually served on the
battlefield. There are way too many Americans who do stupid and
dangerous things and don't care about the harm they might cause others. I
don't want them to have access to guns. Hell, I don't want them to have
access to cars and trucks.

But they do.

I'm likely to be shot by someone who owns a gun because he thinks he'll
need to use it to commit a crime in future. People like this have
access to guns. It's actually not illegal if they haven't yet committed
their first violent crime. I'm likely to be shot by a really stupid kid
like Adam Toledo.

When the gun industry sells guns to people who will probably commit
crimes, they are absolutely Merchants of Death. The more crime, the
better for sales.

If someone who is serious about learning to shoot and practical uses for
the gun in self defense or to defend others, I have no moral objection.

For extensive training in offensive uses of guns, I have no moral
objection to the militia, and I think the Swiss do it right, and we
shouldn't have eliminated it.

But for the stupid uncaring assholes and likely future criminals, no. A
thousand times no.

On 8/28/23 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article
> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>
>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>> crime, then kills himself
>
>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>
>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>> just an innocent tool" line.
>
> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>
> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>

Gosh! Then perhaps you'd like to tell us, O Law Giver, why the hundreds
of cops waited over an hour to confront ONE 18 year old with a gun in
Uvalde?

> UVALDE, Texas — Nearly 400 law enforcement officials rushed to mass shooting that left 21 people dead at a Uvalde elementary school but "systemic failures" created a chaotic scene that lasted more than an hour before the gunman was finally confronted and killed, according to a report from investigators released Sunday.

They sat on their well armed and protected asses and waited until 21
mostly children were slaughtered. Didn't seem like they were
overwhelmingly opposed to gun control that day. But I guess it's easier
to be brave when you aren't facing a loaded AR.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On 8/28/23 4:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <fl7HM.75490$fRmf.28292@fx02.iad>,
> moviePig <pwallace@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/28/2023 3:37 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <super70s-BEADBA.08285328082023@reader.eternal-september.org>,
>>> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <kXDGM.635154$TCKc.197337@fx13.iad>,
>>>> trotsky <gmsingh@email.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://apnews.com/article/florida-store-shooting-fatalities-b65ecad5
>>>>> f81ac8aa35121507dd4f7dcc
>>>>>
>>>>> A white man fatally shoots 3 Black people at a Florida store in a hate
>>>>> crime, then kills himself
>>>
>>>>> Four more lives snuffed out of existence courtesy of the Republicans.
>>>>
>>>> That Jacksonville sheriff must be getting kickbacks from the NRA, most
>>>> sheriffs and chiefs of police across the country don't want ordinary
>>>> citizens walking around the streets with AR-15's and denounce the "it's
>>>> just an innocent tool" line.
>>>
>>> Sheriffs and police chiefs are politicians and they toe the party line.
>>>
>>> However, the rank and file cops-- the ones actually out on streets, not
>>> sitting behind a cushy desk in an air conditioned office every day-- are
>>> overwhelmingly in favor of gun rights and oppose gun control.
>>
>> Got a cite that at least *seems* more even-handed than this one? ...
>>
>> https://www.police1.com/gun-legislation-law-enforcement/articles/policeones-gu
>> n-control-survey-11-key-lessons-from-officers-perspectives-m4At3JUr9iHpA45K/
>
> Oh, I don't know... 24 years as a law enforcement officer myself,
> working with other cops all over the country, at all levels, local,
> state, federal, and rarely, if ever, encountering a pro-gun confiscation
> cop. (The BATFE excepted, of course. They're a unique breed of LEO.)
>
> Every cop I know-- and I mean every-- has a personally-owned AR-15 or
> its equivalent, and would be required to give it up if such laws came
> into effect, just like Joe Citizen would. None of them are in favor of
> that.
>

It isn't an all or nothing proposition. Real LEO's understand this.
We've already had an assault weapons ban decades ago. What you're
saying in propaganda, not fact.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0