On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 10:26:11 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>. . .
>
> >>>I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
> >>>needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
> >>>which seems to be where things are going.
>
> >>Exactly what is the alternative? Really, I want to know. Putin is far
> >>more likely to make peace with Ukraine than Hamas is with Israel.
>
> >>This is why firing rockets and building tunnels in densely-populated
> >>civilian areas is a war crime.
>
> >It is? Rockets, sure, but I've never heard tunneling classified as a war
> >crime.
> They have armouries down there, which makes them military targets.
>
> That being said, I truly have no idea if the Geneva Convention applies
> to them. Palestine isn't a state and wouldn't have signed it at any
> point.

> Your point earlier was a much better one, that the consequences of war
> are so horrific it's truly best not to start one.

Moshe Dyan, the Israeli Chef of Staff, was in attendance, and delivered a eulogy which has gone down in Israeli history as one of the defining speeches of the nation. “Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages where they and their fathers dwelt, into our estate.

Israel, Dyan said, cannot be settled without the “steel helmet and canon’s maw.” War, he said, was Israel’s “life choice,” and as such Israel was condemned to a life of militarized diligence,

https://www.scottritterextra.com/

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 10:43:12 PM UTC-4, chromebook test wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 10:26:11 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> > >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> > >>shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>>>. . .
> >
> > >>>I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
> > >>>needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
> > >>>which seems to be where things are going.
> >
> > >>Exactly what is the alternative? Really, I want to know. Putin is far
> > >>more likely to make peace with Ukraine than Hamas is with Israel.
> >
> > >>This is why firing rockets and building tunnels in densely-populated
> > >>civilian areas is a war crime.
> >
> > >It is? Rockets, sure, but I've never heard tunneling classified as a war
> > >crime.
> > They have armouries down there, which makes them military targets.
> >
> > That being said, I truly have no idea if the Geneva Convention applies
> > to them. Palestine isn't a state and wouldn't have signed it at any
> > point.
>
>
>
> > Your point earlier was a much better one, that the consequences of war
> > are so horrific it's truly best not to start one.
> Moshe Dyan, the Israeli Chef of Staff, was in attendance, and delivered a eulogy which has gone down in Israeli history as one of the defining speeches of the nation. “Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages where they and their fathers dwelt, into our estate.
>
> Israel, Dyan said, cannot be settled without the “steel helmet and canon’s maw.” War, he said, was Israel’s “life choice,” and as such Israel was condemned to a life of militarized diligence,
>
> https://www.scottritterextra.com/

In 1956, while he was chief of staff, Dayan gave the eulogy for Roi Rotberg, who lived on Kibbutz Nahal Oz near Gaza and was ambushed and killed while on security patrol.

Kibbutz Nahal Oz was also the site of a massacre by Hamas terrorists on Oct..7, 2023.

On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 10:43:12 PM UTC-4, chromebook test wrote:
> On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 10:26:11 PM UTC-4, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> > BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> > >"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> > >>shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>>>. . .
> >
> > >>>I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
> > >>>needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
> > >>>which seems to be where things are going.
> >
> > >>Exactly what is the alternative? Really, I want to know. Putin is far
> > >>more likely to make peace with Ukraine than Hamas is with Israel.
> >
> > >>This is why firing rockets and building tunnels in densely-populated
> > >>civilian areas is a war crime.
> >
> > >It is? Rockets, sure, but I've never heard tunneling classified as a war
> > >crime.
> > They have armouries down there, which makes them military targets.
> >
> > That being said, I truly have no idea if the Geneva Convention applies
> > to them. Palestine isn't a state and wouldn't have signed it at any
> > point.
>
>
>
> > Your point earlier was a much better one, that the consequences of war
> > are so horrific it's truly best not to start one.
> Moshe Dyan, the Israeli Chef of Staff, was in attendance, and delivered a eulogy which has gone down in Israeli history as one of the defining speeches of the nation. “Let us not cast the blame on the murderers today. Why should we declare their burning hatred for us? For eight years they have been sitting in the refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we have been transforming the lands and the villages where they and their fathers dwelt, into our estate.

> Israel, Dyan said, cannot be settled without the “steel helmet and canon’s maw.” War, he said, was Israel’s “life choice,” and as such Israel was condemned to a life of militarized diligence,

“Good. Good. When you declare war, you declare war. They started it.. We now don't count who's dead. You're dead, you deserve to be dead." - Joan Rivers

On 10/22/23 7:44 PM, FPP wrote:
> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the situation in
>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first videos he
>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to find
>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us all
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say, Hamas or
>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What some
>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something that is
>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>
>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>
>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>> military.
>>>>
>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the brunt
>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's too
>>> late.
>>>
>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had nothing
>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>
>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>> thing.
>>
>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>> which seems to be where things are going.
>
>
> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>
> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they can't
> allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are going to pay
> the price for electing terrorists.
>
> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.

So the concept of killing civilians is a war crime becomes meaningless
because reasons?

On 10/22/23 7:44 PM, FPP wrote:
> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the situation in
>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first videos he
>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to find
>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us all
>>>>>>> day
>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say, Hamas or
>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What some
>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something that is
>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>
>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>
>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>> military.
>>>>
>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the brunt
>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's too
>>> late.
>>>
>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had nothing
>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>
>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>> thing.
>>
>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>> which seems to be where things are going.
>
>
> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>
> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they can't
> allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are going to pay
> the price for electing terrorists.
>
> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.
>

What I'd like to hear is how you can act like Netanhayu is in any way
better than an unnamed terrorist in Hamas.

On 10/22/23 8:15 PM, FPP wrote:
> On 10/22/23 2:21 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>> On Oct 22, 2023 at 5:44:55 AM PDT, "Rhino"
>> <no_offline_contact@example.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>   On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>   <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>   >One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the situation in
>>>>   >China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>   >teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>   >taught English there.)
>>>>   >
>>>>   >In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>   >(who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>   >has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>   >and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>   >latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>   >admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>   >who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>   >Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first videos he
>>>>   >ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>   >hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>   To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>   known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>   were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>   construction projects that looked great from the outside only to find
>>>>   that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>   small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>   building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>   problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>> materials were.
>>>
>>>>   >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>   >
>>>>   >He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us all
>>>> day
>>>>   >long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say, Hamas or
>>>>   >North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>   >realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>   >other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>> experiences
>>>>   >that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>   >beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>   >reality....
>>>>   I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What some
>>>>   might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something that is
>>>>   justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>   to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>   women and children.
>>>
>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>
>> So I woke up yesterday to find U.S. embassies are on the verge of being
>> overrun all over the Middle East: Jordan, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, Turkey.
>>
>> Why isn't the State Department doing anything?
>>
>> There's a possibility of several Benghazis happening all at once, and
>> nobody
>> in the regime seems to give a shit.
>>
>> Our 57 intelligence agencies didn't see this coming? Even my cat
>> mentioned it
>> last week.
>>
>>
>
> I'm sure the first thing they'll get right on is telling you what
> they're doing.
>
> Well, at least you managed to get a Benghazi! (tm) reference in.

Hey, if they ever get a Speaker of the House they might need to schedule
more hearings to waste more taxpayer dollars whilst talking out their
asses saying they're "conservative."

On 10/22/23 8:12 PM, FPP wrote:
> On 10/22/23 8:44 PM, FPP wrote:
>> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the
>>>>>>>> situation in
>>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first
>>>>>>>> videos he
>>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us
>>>>>>>> all day
>>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say,
>>>>>>>> Hamas or
>>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something
>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>>> military.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the brunt
>>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's
>>>> too late.
>>>>
>>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had nothing
>>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>>> which seems to be where things are going.
>>
>>
>> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>>
>> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they
>> can't allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are going
>> to pay the price for electing terrorists.
>>
>> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.
>
> And I should have stated, for the record, Israel isn't blameless,
> either.  Far from it.
>
> Israeli's elected a man who did not want peace.  Bibi absolutely is the
> architect of this situation, and the Israeli people knew it when they
> elected him.
>
> Bibi wants conflict.  He was dead set against a 2 state solution and all
> this plays into his hands.  Sure, he overplayed his hand, and now he's
> going to be a casualty of it, too.  I'm not sure he cares.
>
> So here we are.  Hard-liners on both sides have gotten what they wanted.
>  All that's left to do is for the innocents on both sides to pay for it.
>
> Moral of the story... don't elect fanatics who don't care about what
> happens to you.

That's a horse of another color, saying both sides are to blame. In
point of fact Netanyahu predicated all this by setting up Checkpoint
Charlies to get in and out of Gaza, in essence creating an "open air
prison" which you hear from the Gazans, also the U.S. has some
culpability, with nothing said or done about the IDF's murder of Shireen
Abu Akleh, a journalist with dual Palestinian/American citizenship. All
this stuff adds up. Still no justification for an attack on civilians,
but certainly these are things that ignited the powderkeg we're seeing
now. Hamas should be exterminated and so should Netanyahu and his
peeps. Meanwhile Joe gives lip service to "humanitarian concerns" while
usually falling back into the platitude of "Israel has a right to defend
itself" while they kill far more civilians than Hamas. The whole
situation stinks to high heaven.

On 10/22/23 9:04 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <uh4bv6$2n8la$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> . . .
>>
>>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>>> which seems to be where things are going.
>>
>> Exactly what is the alternative? Really, I want to know. Putin is far
>> more likely to make peace with Ukraine than Hamas is with Israel.
>>
>> This is why firing rockets and building tunnels in densely-populated
>> civilian areas is a war crime.
>
> It is? Rockets, sure, but I've never heard tunneling classified as a war
> crime.

Holy fuck, Oath Keeper Troon telling Verman he's said something really
stupid, that's gotta suck!

On 10/23/23 4:10 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 10/22/23 7:44 PM, FPP wrote:
>> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the
>>>>>>>> situation in
>>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first
>>>>>>>> videos he
>>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us
>>>>>>>> all day
>>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say,
>>>>>>>> Hamas or
>>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something
>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>>> military.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the brunt
>>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's
>>>> too late.
>>>>
>>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had nothing
>>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>>> which seems to be where things are going.
>>
>>
>> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>>
>> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they
>> can't allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are going
>> to pay the price for electing terrorists.
>>
>> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.
>
>
> So the concept of killing civilians is a war crime becomes meaningless
> because reasons?
>

You want an argument, or do you want reality? Name a single war where
civilians didn't die?

I'm stating facts.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

Gracie, age 6.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0es3xolxka455iw/BetterThingsToDo.jpg?dl=0

On 10/23/23 4:23 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 10/22/23 8:12 PM, FPP wrote:
>> On 10/22/23 8:44 PM, FPP wrote:
>>> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the
>>>>>>>>> situation in
>>>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first
>>>>>>>>> videos he
>>>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be
>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects
>>>>>>> were so
>>>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were
>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us
>>>>>>>>> all day
>>>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say,
>>>>>>>>> Hamas or
>>>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something
>>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some
>>>>>>> huge
>>>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>>>> military.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the
>>>>>> brunt
>>>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's
>>>>> too late.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>>>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>>>> which seems to be where things are going.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>>>
>>> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they
>>> can't allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are
>>> going to pay the price for electing terrorists.
>>>
>>> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.
>>
>> And I should have stated, for the record, Israel isn't blameless,
>> either.  Far from it.
>>
>> Israeli's elected a man who did not want peace.  Bibi absolutely is
>> the architect of this situation, and the Israeli people knew it when
>> they elected him.
>>
>> Bibi wants conflict.  He was dead set against a 2 state solution and
>> all this plays into his hands.  Sure, he overplayed his hand, and now
>> he's going to be a casualty of it, too.  I'm not sure he cares.
>>
>> So here we are.  Hard-liners on both sides have gotten what they
>> wanted.   All that's left to do is for the innocents on both sides to
>> pay for it.
>>
>> Moral of the story... don't elect fanatics who don't care about what
>> happens to you.
>
>
> That's a horse of another color, saying both sides are to blame.  In
> point of fact Netanyahu predicated all this by setting up Checkpoint
> Charlies to get in and out of Gaza, in essence creating an "open air
> prison" which you hear from the Gazans, also the U.S. has some
> culpability, with nothing said or done about the IDF's murder of Shireen
> Abu Akleh, a journalist with dual Palestinian/American citizenship.  All
> this stuff adds up.  Still no justification for an attack on civilians,
> but certainly these are things that ignited the powderkeg we're seeing
> now.  Hamas should be exterminated and so should Netanyahu and his
> peeps.  Meanwhile Joe gives lip service to "humanitarian concerns" while
> usually falling back into the platitude of "Israel has a right to defend
> itself" while they kill far more civilians than Hamas.  The whole
> situation stinks to high heaven.
>

On 10/23/23 4:11 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 10/22/23 7:44 PM, FPP wrote:
>> On 10/22/23 11:46 AM, shawn wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 10:47:25 -0400, FPP <fredp1571@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/22/23 10:34 AM, shawn wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:44:55 -0400, Rhino
>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 21:19:45 -0400
>>>>>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2023 20:52:45 -0400, Rhino
>>>>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the
>>>>>>>> situation in
>>>>>>>> China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>>>>> teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>>>>> taught English there.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>>>>> (who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>>>>> has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>>>>> and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>>>>> latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>>>>> admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>>>>> who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>>>>> Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first
>>>>>>>> videos he
>>>>>>>> ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>>>>> hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>>>>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>>>>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>>>>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>>>>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>>>>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>>>>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>>>>>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>>>>>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>>>>>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>>>>>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>>>>>> materials were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us
>>>>>>>> all day
>>>>>>>> long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say,
>>>>>>>> Hamas or
>>>>>>>> North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>>>>>>> realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>>>>>>> other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the
>>>>>>>> experiences
>>>>>>>> that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>>>>>>> beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>>>>>>> reality....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something
>>>>>>> that is
>>>>>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>>>>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>>>>>> women and children.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>>>>>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>>>>>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>>>>>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>>>>>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>>>>>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>>>>>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be fair the Israeli air strikes are very likely killing innocent
>>>>> civilians no matter what the intent of the Israelis were. So there's
>>>>> fair reason to complain about the actions of Hamas AND the Israeli
>>>>> military.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't get upset about people coming together to ask for support for
>>>>> Palestine as it's clear that there are many people in the Gaza strip
>>>>> who aren't involved in attacking Israel. They end up bearing the brunt
>>>>> of the Israel attacks on Hamas because Hamas hides among the
>>>>> civilians. I don't know what the average Palestinian can do as most
>>>>> aren't in a position to leave and they can't throw out the heavily
>>>>> armed Hamas.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hamas deliberately puts their people in harm's way.  This is why you
>>>> don't elect a terrorist organization in the first place.  The die is
>>>> cast.  They had more than a couple of chances to have their 2 state
>>>> solution, and turned them all down, one after another.  Now, it's
>>>> too late.
>>>>
>>>> Look at what we did after 9-11.  We attacked a country that had nothing
>>>> to do with it - so everybody who died there was a victim of the USA.
>>>> And the Israelis who voted for Bibi are to blame as well.
>>>>
>>>> Bottom line is, Hamas has to go.  One way, or the other, Israel will
>>>> never allow them to be able to do this again.  And we'd do the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> I agree that Hamas needs to go. I just don't like the idea that Hamas
>>> needs to go by killing tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians
>>> which seems to be where things are going.
>>
>>
>> If you've figured out a better way, let somebody know.  I haven't.
>>
>> Israel can't leave them with the ability to do it again, and they
>> can't allow them to get away with it.  The civilians in Gaza are going
>> to pay the price for electing terrorists.
>>
>> Terrorists don't care about civilians, and now the bill has come due.
>>
>
>
> What I'd like to hear is how you can act like Netanhayu is in any way
> better than an unnamed terrorist in Hamas.

If you've been paying attention, I've ragged on Bibi every chance I've
had. He's a big part of the reason we are where where we are.

He's pushed more an more settlements that made the situation more and
more intolerable. But for some reason, people keep electing him.

Plenty of blame to go around. If they didn't keep electing him and his
hard-liners, they might have had a chance at a 2 state solution. But
they did elect him, and they don't have a prayer as long as he's in power.

The good news (if there is any) is that he's a dead-politician-walking
at this point.

--
"Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man’s mind." - OC
Bible 25B.G.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek8kap93bmk0q5w/D%20U%20N%20E%20Part%20II.jpg?dl=0

atropos@mac.com wrote:
> "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

>>>>One of the YouTube channels I watch that deals with the situation in
>>>>China is Laowhy86. (Laowhy is apparently the Mandarin word for
>>>>teacher; the host, who is American, lived in China for 10 years and
>>>>taught English there.)
>>>>
>>>>In the couple of years that I've been watching the show, Laowhy86
>>>>(who has never revealed his real name in any episode I've watched)
>>>>has been quite outspoken in revealing the reality of life in China
>>>>and the treachery of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). In his
>>>>latest episode, he describes his journey from being an ardent
>>>>admirer of China (before he ever went to China) to a foe of China
>>>>who literally had to flee to keep from being arrested by Chairman
>>>>Xi's goons. It's fascinated to see snippets from the first videos he
>>>>ever did, before he'd ever set foot in China, that defend China and
>>>>hear how mortified he is now by his utter naivete:
>>>
>>> To be fair there was a lot to cheer about with China. What wasn't
>>> known was how so much of the great things China appeared to be doing
>>> were just castles built on sand. All that money being put into
>>> construction projects that looked great from the outside only to find
>>> that many projects weren't needed like a high speed rail to remote
>>> small towns. Or how local governments were forced to constantly be
>>> building new projects to look good to the national government. The
>>> problem being none of that was apparent in the beginning.
>>>
>> It's not just that some projects were unneeded. Many projects were so
>> poorly executed that they started falling apart before they were even
>> finished or soon thereafter. Look for videos on "tofu dreg"
>> construction, particularly on the Laowhy86 channel and you'll be
>> astounded at how shoddy the workmanship was and how 10th rate the
>> materials were.
>>
>>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHxExHC7LnQ [18 minutes]
>>> >
>>> >He reminds me greatly of all the "activists" that shout at us all day
>>> >long about "social justice" who actually believe that, say, Hamas or
>>> >North Korea are role models for the entire world. Laowhy86's
>>> >realization that he was deeply, deeply wrong gives me hope that the
>>> >other "activists" we hear from all the time also have the experiences
>>> >that re-connect them with reality. But that assumes they are human
>>> >beings, not just programmed bots who have no capacity to learn from
>>> >reality....
>>>
>>> I don't know anyone that thinks either one is a role model. What some
>>> might say about Hamas is that they are fighting for something that is
>>> justified, which is freedom for Palestine. Though not many are going
>>> to defend their actions like in this last attack on Israel killing
>>> women and children.
>>
>> London apparently had 100,000 people demonstrating on behalf of
>> Palestine yesterday. The Arab countries have apparently had some huge
>> demonstrations on behalf of the Palestinians. Here in Canada, major
>> media outlets like CBC, CTV, and Global are pumping out frequent
>> stories painting all the Gazans as victims who must be protected from
>> the Israelis; any recognition that the Israeli air strikes are a
>> response to Hamas' atrocities are pro forma at best.
>
>So I woke up yesterday to find U.S. embassies are on the verge of being
>overrun all over the Middle East: Jordan, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, Turkey.
>
>Why isn't the State Department doing anything?
>
>There's a possibility of several Benghazis happening all at once, and nobody
>in the regime seems to give a shit.

At least we no longer see mean tweets... [eyeroll]

--
Let's go Brandon!