how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...

Good evening, my friend, well put.

On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
That’s exactly what will and dance does.

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-4, ME wrote:
> On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
> > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> That’s exactly what

What your thug friend Jim Senetto does, yes.

🙂

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...

I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot. Dockery likes being abused.

And I will abuse him. Accepting responsibility.

The point is, you say we should have a group that gets along....having this in mind, you allow Dockery to say hello all day and night and respond, which enables us bad guys to give him what he wants.

My comment was directed at you. You must know he buries all we have to say or all poetry we post, just to be at the top. You enable his idiotic behavior and help in the burying of those that would like to post poetry, something you do not do...You don't belong here, unless you feel you should enable Dockery to prove he is indeed the top asshole.

Dockery likes being abused, I guess you do as well.

So be it.

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
> > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsiliblity...
>
> I find Dockery

Senetto, your obsession is obvious, old fart.

> Dockery likes being abused

That's just your feeble minded bullshit, Senetto.

🙂

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibility...

You're right, Jordy. Thank you for speaking up.

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot.

So you whine 24/7. Basically, you've done nothing with your life, and you're trying to feel better about yourself by telling yourself that at least you're better than someone else; because that's all you have.

> Dockery likes being abused.

That's what wannabe abusers always tell themselves.

> And I will abuse him.

No you don't. You whine and cry and waste his time; but you don't manage to actually hurt anyone.

> Accepting responsibility.
>
> The point is, you say we should have a group that gets along....having this in mind, you allow Dockery to say hello all day and night and respond, which enables us bad guys to give him what he wants.
You're full of shit, as usual, Chimp. If Will wasn't here, you'd be trying to abuse someone else, because without that you'd have no sense of self-worth.

> My comment was directed at you. You must know he buries all we have to say or all poetry we post, just to be at the top.

I doubt he even thinks about you that much; but, if he did, who'd blame him? Since virtually all you have to say is bullshit about Will, and virtually all your poetry is also bullshit about Will, why the hell wouldn't he want to bury it? Who do you think wants to read any of your crap here? Your monkey and your buffoon, of course; but AFAIC, he and Jordy are doing the group a public service.

> You enable his idiotic behavior and help in the burying of those that would like to post poetry, something you do not do...

Since virtually all your "poetry" is bullshit about Will, as well, the same comment applies.

> You don't belong here, unless you feel you should enable Dockery to prove he is indeed the top asshole.

Unlike you, Jordy posts poems and links that are often worth reading.
>
> Dockery likes being abused, I guess you do as well.
>
I suspect that poor Jordy will just keep trying to appeal to your better nature, clinging to the belief that you still have one.

> So be it.

Amen, brother.

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...

Does this mean you are going to post another two dozen "Hello" postings that do absolutely nothing to the newsgroup but spam it and bump up nonsense postings?

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:18:25 PM UTC-4, ME wrote:
> On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...

> That’s exactly what will and dance does.

IKYABWAW.

On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
>

Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?

You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.

Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?

Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?

Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?

How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?

How many times have we asked you to stop?

If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.

No one here would bother you if you stopped annoying everyone with your inconsiderate behavior.

If you want peace, stop the "Hello" posts. This is a poetry group, not your personal message board.

If you want peace, stop posting youtube links. We can all do our own internet searches for poetry that interests us. This is a "comments" group. If you have something to *say* about one of those poems, you link, we'd all be happy to learn your thoughts on it and discuss it with you.

But posting links without comments is a wasted of everyone's time.

Respect the wishes of others, and they'll respect yours. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate in return.

Right now, you are considered the worst troll in the group -- because you have the least to say. How many thousands of "Hello" posts have you made over the past few years?

Jim was tying to reason with you, just as I am trying to reason with you now.

You are not a scapegoat. You are the problem.

Treat others as you'd like them to treat you in return. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 12:42:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot.
> So you whine 24/7. Basically, you've done nothing with your life, and you're trying to feel better about yourself by telling yourself that at least you're better than someone else; because that's all you have.
>

None of us have become rich and famous, George. But most of us have raised families and been gainfully employed for most of our adult lives.

Will's "biographical" posts show that he constantly passed his children (and wife) off on his in-laws, and spent the time he should have been caring for his family out boozing, drugging, sleeping around with the local skanks; squatting in boarded up houses with no electricity or running water; and spending what little money he earned (20+ years ago when he was actually working) on drugs, leaving his wife to support their children.

He now lives in a shed that he inherited from his mother -- after having lived off of her and his mentally disabled brother's disability check for 2+ decades; and has a son in prison for having sexually exploited minors.

So, yeah... we can all point to Will Donkey and say "Hey, at least I'm doing better than him" (George "Stink" Sulzbach excepted).

But so what?

Most of us would naturally take pity on the Donkey and treat him with kindness (suffer the little children and the childlike in mind), if he weren't flooding the group with nonsense 24/7 ("Hello" posts, multiple threads for each of his poems, blog links, necroposts and necrobumps, constantly repeated one-liners that he's second-handed from everyone else, etc.

It's easy for you to tolerate Will because you use AAPC primarily as a place to advertise your blog.

The rest of us, who want to post *and discuss* poetry, do not appreciate having to sift through dozens of "hello" posts to find our conversations.

Teach your Donkey to be considerate of others, and others will be considerate of him in return. That's the non-petty, non-combative version of Tit for Tat that most people naturally ascribe to.

> > Dockery likes being abused.
>
> That's what wannabe abusers always tell themselves.

Jim has a point there.

When the Donkey is ignored, he'll often start new attack threads to get our attention.

> > And I will abuse him.
> No you don't. You whine and cry and waste his time; but you don't manage to actually hurt anyone.

Stop it, George. No one whines and cries here (except for you). And since the Donkey has no job or immediate family living with him, he has all the time in the world.

Does anyone hurt the Donkey? No.

Does anyone want to hurt the Donkey? No.

No one wants to kick a man who's down.

I think that we would all be happy to get along with Will (or, at least, to ignore him), if he weren't constantly spamming our group, burying our conversations, etc.

> > Accepting responsibility.
> >
> > The point is, you say we should have a group that gets along....having this in mind, you allow Dockery to say hello all day and night and respond, which enables us bad guys to give him what he wants.
> You're full of shit, as usual, Chimp. If Will wasn't here, you'd be trying to abuse someone else, because without that you'd have no sense of self-worth.
>

You're projecting again, George. Jim has never given any indication that he suffers from low self-esteem. That's your thing ("boys can be such filthy things," etc.).

> > My comment was directed at you. You must know he buries all we have to say or all poetry we post, just to be at the top.
> I doubt he even thinks about you that much; but, if he did, who'd blame him? Since virtually all you have to say is bullshit about Will, and virtually all your poetry is also bullshit about Will, why the hell wouldn't he want to bury it? Who do you think wants to read any of your crap here? Your monkey and your buffoon, of course; but AFAIC, he and Jordy are doing the group a public service.
>

No, George, Jordy isn't doing anyone a service (apart from servicing the Donkey). And your supporting him does a disservice to the group as well.

You're really the worst of the lot as, unlike Will and Jordy, you claim to be intelligent enough to know better.

> > You enable his idiotic behavior and help in the burying of those that would like to post poetry, something you do not do...
> Since virtually all your "poetry" is bullshit about Will, as well, the same comment applies.

That isn't true, George. Jim posts a great deal of non-Donkey-related poetry in AYoS. As Jim has pointed out in the past, AYoS has become the last bastion for poetry here. AAPC has become a spam-dump and battlefield -- thanks to the antics of your Donkey and his socks.

> > You don't belong here, unless you feel you should enable Dockery to prove he is indeed the top asshole.
> Unlike you, Jordy posts poems and links that are often worth reading.
> >
> > Dockery likes being abused, I guess you do as well.
> >
> I suspect that poor Jordy will just keep trying to appeal to your better nature, clinging to the belief that you still have one.

Jordy isn't appealing -- he accusing. Accusations don't accomplish anything -- other than fanning the pre-existing flames.

> > So be it.
>
> Amen, brother.

WTF is wrong with you, George Dance?

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> >
> Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?

And here's the chimp's litttle monkey pal to help him out with an IKYABWIJ.

> You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.

I wonder which is stupider: Michael Monkey's claim that this is his and his Chimp's group, or his claim that the two of them are familiar with "all" the poems online.
> Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?
>

It's not inconsiderate to say "Hello" or to post links to poems. The Monkey's simply upset again, because Jordy's friendly to people he doesn't like.

> Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?

Why do you expect anyone to care? If that's a problem for you, I'm sure you can figure out how to change your settings, or get someone to explain it for you. Why should everyone else change their posting habits to accommodate you?

> Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?

No one is "forcing" you either you or the Chimp to click on anyone else's posts. If you don't like clicking on posts, then don't. I skip tons of your bullshit each day.
> How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?

Let's see: there's the Monkey, the Chimp, and the Big Buffoon: Team Monkey. The same three who like to repeatedly post that Jordy (being gay and Jewish) is a child molester -- without a thought for whether that's "considerate or not.
> How many times have we asked you to stop?

You piss and moan about Jordy's posts almost as many times as you've called him a child molester. That's a lot of times.

> If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.

That's all it takes to get along with Michael Monkey -- respect his wishes and be considerate of him. Of course, he'll still call you a child molester, but he'll be happier.

The questions is: why the fuck does Michael Monkey think anyone would want to "get along" with a bedbug like him?
> No one here would bother you if you stopped annoying everyone with your inconsiderate behavior.

What a great deal for Jordy: Stop posting so much, so the Monkey and his flunkies are freed up to bother other people more. How could he refuse?

> If you want peace, stop the "Hello" posts.

That isn't going to help.

> This is a poetry group, not your personal message board.
So go post some poetry; stop whining and crying about what everyone else posts.

> If you want peace, stop posting youtube links. We can all do our own internet searches for poetry that interests us.

Of course you three aren't 're not interested in any but your own "poetry." That's no reason for everyone else to stop posting or reading them.

> This is a "comments" group. If you have something to *say* about one of those poems, you link, we'd all be happy to learn your thoughts on it and discuss it with you.

What makes you think Jordy, or anyone else, would want to "discuss" poetry with you three trolls?
>
> But posting links without comments is a wasted of everyone's time.

"Wasted" is an adjective, Monkey; you're using it as a noun. Maybe Jordy can find some links to grammar pages for you; but, since you wouldn't read them either, that would be a "wasted" too.
> Respect the wishes of others, and they'll respect yours. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate in return.

As someone who's tried that with the Monkey and the Chimp, I can assure Jordy that is not gonna happen. Notice that the Monkey's appealing to the same ethical rule (reciprocity) that he insists he doesn't have to follow.
> Right now, you are considered the worst troll in the group -- because you have the least to say. How many thousands of "Hello" posts have you made over the past few years?

So, you call him a "troll". Why should he care?
> Jim was tying to reason with you, just as I am trying to reason with you now.

The Chimp was trolling him, just like you're trolling him.
> You are not a scapegoat. You are the problem.

You're trying the same victim-blaming as your Chimp.
> Treat others as you'd like them to treat you in return. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.

If it's anything like that happened to me when I tried it, the results will be: Jordy will post less, while the Monkey and the Chimp will keep trolling (or, as the Monkey calls it, "reasoning") as usual.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > >
> > Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?
> And here's the chimp's litttle monkey pal to help him out with an IKYABWIJ.

Behave yourself, George.

The fact that you refer to Jim and I as a "chimp" and a "monkey" reveal your desire to keep AAPC a breeding ground for trolls and flamewars.

> > You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.
> I wonder which is stupider: Michael Monkey's claim that this is his and his Chimp's group, or his claim that the two of them are familiar with "all" the poems online.
>

AAPC is our group, George. It's your group, too -- even though you do your best to help the Donkey run it into the ground.

And, yes, I can safely say that most of us are familiar with the poetry "Jordy" posts links to. Most of these are well known poems that we read in our high school English classes.

> > Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?
> >
> It's not inconsiderate to say "Hello" or to post links to poems. The Monkey's simply upset again, because Jordy's friendly to people he doesn't like..
>

It's extremely rude to post 15 "Hellos" a day, George.

It's an attempt to 1) flood the group with garbage so that most of us will get tired of sifting through it and leave, and 2) an attempt to bury all of our conversations for the same reason.

> > Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?
> Why do you expect anyone to care? If that's a problem for you, I'm sure you can figure out how to change your settings, or get someone to explain it for you. Why should everyone else change their posting habits to accommodate you?
>

I don't link AAPC to my email, but others may do so.

Again, it's inconsiderate to anyone who might be doing it.

> > Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?
> No one is "forcing" you either you or the Chimp to click on anyone else's posts. If you don't like clicking on posts, then don't. I skip tons of your bullshit each day.
>

No one clicks on threads Jordy starts (except to report them as spam and have them blocked).

However, Will and Jordy start their "Hello" routine in the middle of ongoing conversations, and these are much more difficult to filter out..

Nor should anyone have to filter out dozens of mindless "Hello" posts a day in a Usenet group that they've joined to discuss poetry with others.

It is rude to the point of being passively obnoxious (passive-obnoxious is a new psychological term I've just coined specifically for Jordy).

> > How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?
> Let's see: there's the Monkey, the Chimp, and the Big Buffoon: Team Monkey. The same three who like to repeatedly post that Jordy (being gay and Jewish) is a child molester -- without a thought for whether that's "considerate or not.
>

We've stopped the child molester posts several months ago, George. It hasn't caused "Jordy" to cut back on his obnoxious "Hello" posts in return.

As for you accusatory implications: I'm Jewish, and I sincerely believe that "Jordy's" relationship with his nephew is... disturbing.

> > How many times have we asked you to stop?
> You piss and moan about Jordy's posts almost as many times as you've called him a child molester. That's a lot of times.

As I've said, Jordy is worst troll here -- that is to say he's the most annoying.

And yes, I've asked him to stop many times over the course of the past few years.

> > If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.
> That's all it takes to get along with Michael Monkey -- respect his wishes and be considerate of him. Of course, he'll still call you a child molester, but he'll be happier.
>

Again, we have stopped posting the "Jordy" poems several months ago. No one has been calling Jordy a "child molester" for some time now.

I realize that you only come to AAPC when you're looking for a fight, but you really need to familiarize yourself with the current state of affairs before you go shooting your mouth off.

> The questions is: why the fuck does Michael Monkey think anyone would want to "get along" with a bedbug like him?

Oh, look! Jim just called Jordy a "begbug," so now George the second-hander is going to call everyone else one.

> > No one here would bother you if you stopped annoying everyone with your inconsiderate behavior.
> What a great deal for Jordy: Stop posting so much, so the Monkey and his flunkies are freed up to bother other people more. How could he refuse?
>

WTF is wrong with you, George Dance? No one would bother with *anyone* on your "team" if they weren't constantly trying to bury everyone else's conversations and poetry under a daily deluge of spam and nonsense.

> > If you want peace, stop the "Hello" posts.
> That isn't going to help.

How would you know?

> > This is a poetry group, not your personal message board.
> So go post some poetry; stop whining and crying about what everyone else posts.

I've written and posted *five* new poems here this month.

How many have you posted?

> > If you want peace, stop posting youtube links. We can all do our own internet searches for poetry that interests us.
> Of course you three aren't 're not interested in any but your own "poetry.." That's no reason for everyone else to stop posting or reading them.
>

I'm interested in *discussing* poetry, George. I've discussed many of the poems that you post on your blog with you.

I'm not interested in reading famous poems of someone else's choice. If Jordy has something to say about those poems, I'd be delighted to discuss it with him. But posting links without comments is just annoying.

You'd get more discussions about the poetry on your blog if you posted comments regarding it as well.

> > This is a "comments" group. If you have something to *say* about one of those poems, you link, we'd all be happy to learn your thoughts on it and discuss it with you.
> What makes you think Jordy, or anyone else, would want to "discuss" poetry with you three trolls?

Anyone who doesn't want to discuss poetry should not come to a poetry discussion group. Go to RAP. RAP is the perfect place for Jordy to post his uncommented on youtube links.

> > But posting links without comments is a wasted of everyone's time.
> "Wasted" is an adjective, Monkey; you're using it as a noun. Maybe Jordy can find some links to grammar pages for you; but, since you wouldn't read them either, that would be a "wasted" too.
>

It's just a typo, George.

> > Respect the wishes of others, and they'll respect yours. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate in return.
> As someone who's tried that with the Monkey and the Chimp, I can assure Jordy that is not gonna happen. Notice that the Monkey's appealing to the same ethical rule (reciprocity) that he insists he doesn't have to follow.
>

That's a bald-faced lie, George. I've been behaving civilly to you for years. Note that I'm still addressing, and referring to, you as "George" -- in spite of your calling me a monkey.

> > Right now, you are considered the worst troll in the group -- because you have the least to say. How many thousands of "Hello" posts have you made over the past few years?
> So, you call him a "troll". Why should he care?

I doubt he will. But he constantly pretends that he's a nice guy who just wants peace.

Let's see if he really does.

> > Jim was tying to reason with you, just as I am trying to reason with you now.
> The Chimp was trolling him, just like you're trolling him.

Asking for peace is trolling?

WTF is wrong with you, George Dance?

> > You are not a scapegoat. You are the problem.
> You're trying the same victim-blaming as your Chimp.

Jordy is hardly a victim.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 12:42:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > > I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot.
> > So you whine 24/7. Basically, you've done nothing with your life, and you're trying to feel better about yourself by telling yourself that at least you're better than someone else; because that's all you have.
> >
> None of us have become rich and famous, George. But most of us have raised families and been gainfully employed for most of our adult lives.

Since the three of you are anonymous trolls, Michael, you can pretend to be anything you like. There is no reason for anyone to believe any of your stories about yourself, any more than there is to believe your stories about everyone else here.
> Will's "biographical" posts show that he constantly passed his children (and wife) off on his in-laws, and spent the time he should have been caring for his family out boozing, drugging, sleeping around with the local skanks; squatting in boarded up houses with no electricity or running water; and spending what little money he earned (20+ years ago when he was actually working) on drugs, leaving his wife to support their children.
>
> He now lives in a shed that he inherited from his mother -- after having lived off of her and his mentally disabled brother's disability check for 2+ decades; and has a son in prison for having sexually exploited minors.

See above.
> So, yeah... we can all point to Will Donkey and say "Hey, at least I'm doing better than him" (George "Stink" Sulzbach excepted).

That's the option you've chosen. Alternately, you could look at your own accomplishments and derive your self-worth from them. But, of course, you can't do that (which is why you post anonymously); so inventing stories about Will is all you can do.
> But so what?

You tell me. You and your Chimp are the ones whining about it.

> Most of us would naturally take pity on the Donkey and treat him with kindness (suffer the little children and the childlike in mind), if he weren't flooding the group with nonsense 24/7 ("Hello" posts, multiple threads for each of his poems, blog links, necroposts and necrobumps, constantly repeated one-liners that he's second-handed from everyone else, etc.

Michael: the only people you "tolerate" on this group are those who cybersuck you; if you want a group composed only of those, then go find one. Ask your new friend "Piggy John-John" to set up an "alt.arts.suck-the monkey" group for you and them. Perfect solution.
>
> It's easy for you to tolerate Will because you use AAPC primarily as a place to advertise your blog.
Now, Michael, that's not true. Since you sniff behind me on every thread, you know that's not true. So, one has to ask again:

Why do you lie so much, Michael Monkey?

> The rest of us, who want to post *and discuss* poetry, do not appreciate having to sift through dozens of "hello" posts to find our conversations.

Corey Conman explained what to do about that. The only reason you didn't pay attention is that you prefer to bitch and moan about everyone who's not on Team Monkey.
> Teach your Donkey to be considerate of others, and others will be considerate of him in return. That's the non-petty, non-combative version of Tit for Tat that most people naturally ascribe to.

Yes, Michael; but that won't work for people like you who don't follow that or any ethics. I'm sure Will's aware of that as well as I am.

> > > Dockery likes being abused.
> >
> > That's what wannabe abusers always tell themselves.
> Jim has a point there.
>

I explained his point. He's trying to justify acting like his Monkey King by victim-blaming.

> When the Donkey is ignored, he'll often start new attack threads to get our attention.

IOW - he'll post "Hello" or something, and you'll whine that it's an "attack thread" so that you can start attacking him again.

> > > And I will abuse him.
> > No you don't. You whine and cry and waste his time; but you don't manage to actually hurt anyone.
> Stop it, George. No one whines and cries here (except for you).

"Waaah! We're *not* whining. You're just being mean to us!" What a silly little Monkey you sound like.

And since the Donkey has no job or immediate family living with him, he has all the time in the world.

You and the Chimp seem to have plenty of free time. (But of course you say you have "families" and "jobs".)
> Does anyone hurt the Donkey? No.

Of course not. Chimp tries, and Monkey tries, but all you do is make yourself look like fools.
> Does anyone want to hurt the Donkey? No.

Actually, that seems to be most of what the Monkey and Chimp want. Too bad all you can do is whine and cry about it.

> No one wants to kick a man who's down.

No, Michael; as we've seen, you love to try to "kick" anyone who won't cybersuck you; whether they're "down" or not isn't a consideration.
> I think that we would all be happy to get along with Will (or, at least, to ignore him), if he weren't constantly spamming our group, burying our conversations, etc.

Well, isn't that nice? You and your flunkies would be "happy" to ignore Will if he only stopped posting here. Just the way you three have been ignoring Zod since he stopped, right? Stop trying to bullshit the group.
> > >
> > > The point is, you say we should have a group that gets along....having this in mind, you allow Dockery to say hello all day and night and respond, which enables us bad guys to give him what he wants.
> > You're full of shit, as usual, Chimp. If Will wasn't here, you'd be trying to abuse someone else, because without that you'd have no sense of self-worth.
> >
> You're projecting again, George. Jim has never given any indication that he suffers from low self-esteem. That's your thing ("boys can be such filthy things," etc.).

Nonsense. The Chimp's problem, in a nutshell, is that he's getting old, looking back on his life, and realizing that he's failed, as a man and as a poet -- so he needs someone he can pretend to look down on. If it weren't Will, it would be someone else.

> > > My comment was directed at you. You must know he buries all we have to say or all poetry we post, just to be at the top.
> > I doubt he even thinks about you that much; but, if he did, who'd blame him? Since virtually all you have to say is bullshit about Will, and virtually all your poetry is also bullshit about Will, why the hell wouldn't he want to bury it? Who do you think wants to read any of your crap here? Your monkey and your buffoon, of course; but AFAIC, he and Jordy are doing the group a public service.
> >
> No, George, Jordy isn't doing anyone a service (apart from servicing the Donkey). And your supporting him does a disservice to the group as well.

Well, boo-hoo! He's not serving your Team. That's what you have the Chimp, the MEatpuppet, and the Ashtroll for.

> You're really the worst of the lot as, unlike Will and Jordy, you claim to be intelligent enough to know better.

Yet it's only borderline retards like the Chimp and the MEatpuppet who are "intelligent" enough to buy your bullshit. That should tell you something.

> > > You enable his idiotic behavior and help in the burying of those that would like to post poetry, something you do not do...
> > Since virtually all your "poetry" is bullshit about Will, as well, the same comment applies.
> That isn't true, George. Jim posts a great deal of non-Donkey-related poetry in AYoS.

And here you go advertising your "ezine" again. Did you forget your earlier whine about my "advertising" my blog?

> As Jim has pointed out in the past, AYoS has become the last bastion for poetry here.

Well, duh! You set up your vanity project for so the Chimp would get "published" -- no wonder he shills for it.

> AAPC has become a spam-dump and battlefield -- thanks to the antics of your Donkey and his socks.

Michael; aapc has been a battlefield for years, as you know; Team Monkey isn't the first gang of trolls to try to take it over (remember "The Song of the Smug Academic"), and you won't be the last. Trying to blame it all on your victim and his imaginary "socks" may work for a newbie, but don't try that bullshit on someone who's read the group and (unlike your Chimp) doesn't need you to "explain" what's happening.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 12:42:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
> > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot.
> So you whine 24/7. Basically, you've done nothing with your life, and you're trying to feel better about yourself by telling yourself that at least you're better than someone else; because that's all you have.
>
> > Dockery likes being abused.
>
> That's what wannabe abusers always tell themselves.
> > And I will abuse him.
> No you don't. You whine and cry and waste his time; but you don't manage to actually hurt anyone.
> > Accepting responsibility.
> >
> > The point is, you say we should have a group that gets along....having this in mind, you allow Dockery to say hello all day and night and respond, which enables us bad guys to give him what he wants.
> You're full of shit, as usual, Chimp. If Will wasn't here, you'd be trying to abuse someone else, because without that you'd have no sense of self-worth.
> > My comment was directed at you. You must know he buries all we have to say or all poetry we post, just to be at the top.
> I doubt he even thinks about you that much; but, if he did, who'd blame him? Since virtually all you have to say is bullshit about Will, and virtually all your poetry is also bullshit about Will, why the hell wouldn't he want to bury it? Who do you think wants to read any of your crap here? Your monkey and your buffoon, of course; but AFAIC, he and Jordy are doing the group a public service.
> > You enable his idiotic behavior and help in the burying of those that would like to post poetry, something you do not do...
> Since virtually all your "poetry" is bullshit about Will, as well, the same comment applies.
> > You don't belong here, unless you feel you should enable Dockery to prove he is indeed the top asshole.
> Unlike you, Jordy posts poems and links that are often worth reading.
> >
> > Dockery likes being abused, I guess you do as well.
> >
> I suspect that poor Jordy will just keep trying to appeal to your better nature, clinging to the belief that you still have one.
>
> > So be it.
>
> Amen, brother.

Exactly, well put.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:51:33 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > > >
> > > Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?
> > And here's the chimp's litttle monkey pal to help him out with an IKYABWIJ.
> Behave yourself, George.
>
> The fact that you refer to Jim and I as a "chimp" and a "monkey" reveal your desire to keep AAPC a breeding ground for trolls and flamewars.
> > > You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.
> > I wonder which is stupider: Michael Monkey's claim that this is his and his Chimp's group, or his claim that the two of them are familiar with "all" the poems online.
> >
> AAPC is our group, George. It's your group, too -- even though you do your best to help the Donkey run it into the ground.
>
> And, yes, I can safely say that most of us are familiar with the poetry "Jordy" posts links to. Most of these are well known poems that we read in our high school English classes.
> > > Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?
> > >
> > It's not inconsiderate to say "Hello" or to post links to poems. The Monkey's simply upset again, because Jordy's friendly to people he doesn't like.
> >
> It's extremely rude to post 15 "Hellos" a day, George.
>
> It's an attempt to 1) flood the group with garbage so that most of us will get tired of sifting through it and leave, and 2) an attempt to bury all of our conversations for the same reason.

No, Michael, it really isn't. Just because you and the Chimp constantly think about Will and Jordy, does not mean that they think that much about you at all. I think you know that they don't, which is why you're constantly trying to get in their face (like here).

> > > Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?
> > Why do you expect anyone to care? If that's a problem for you, I'm sure you can figure out how to change your settings, or get someone to explain it for you. Why should everyone else change their posting habits to accommodate you?
> I don't link AAPC to my email, but others may do so.

IOW, you're now whining about Jordy not "realizing" something you just made up.
> Again, it's inconsiderate to anyone who might be doing it.

If anyone feels abused by it, they can read the advice I just gave them. It's not that hard to change one's group settings.

> > > Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?
> > No one is "forcing" you either you or the Chimp to click on anyone else's posts. If you don't like clicking on posts, then don't. I skip tons of your bullshit each day.
> >
> No one clicks on threads Jordy starts (except to report them as spam and have them blocked).

If that's what you're doing, then you're only clicking on his posts 15 times a day because you want to. Stop your paranoia about others "forcing" you to do that.
> However, Will and Jordy start their "Hello" routine in the middle of ongoing conversations, and these are much more difficult to filter out..

I have the same problem finding and reporting your Chimp's (and your other flunkies') troll posts. But unlike you I can take responsibility for my choices, rather than jabber that they're "forcing" me to report them.
> Nor should anyone have to filter out dozens of mindless "Hello" posts a day in a Usenet group that they've joined to discuss poetry with others.

If anyone ever comes here again to discuss poetry, that may be an issue. I'm content to leave it for if or when it comes up.
> It is rude to the point of being passively obnoxious (passive-obnoxious is a new psychological term I've just coined specifically for Jordy).

Not the first time you've tried to pass of your insults as "psychology". I think this is the perfect time for the perennial question:
What the fuck is wrong with you, Michael Monkey?

> > > How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?
> > Let's see: there's the Monkey, the Chimp, and the Big Buffoon: Team Monkey. The same three who like to repeatedly post that Jordy (being gay and Jewish) is a child molester -- without a thought for whether that's "considerate or not.
> >
> We've stopped the child molester posts several months ago, George. It hasn't caused "Jordy" to cut back on his obnoxious "Hello" posts in return.

Yes, Michael, I know that -- remember, I spend most of my time hear looking for and reporting Team Monkey trolls. I also know why you stopped; it wasn't to be nice to Jordy, and it wasn't because you worked out an accommodation with him. Nor does it make you a "nice" person who deserves "consideration" -- you three are still throwing your monkey poo at him, this thread being a good example.
> As for you accusatory implications: I'm Jewish, and I sincerely believe that "Jordy's" relationship with his nephew is... disturbing.

Just as you believe all your real and imagined enemies, including not just me but my father, are child molesters. But, please: tell me that you've stopped calling my father that, so you're really a nice person after all.

> > > How many times have we asked you to stop?
> > You piss and moan about Jordy's posts almost as many times as you've called him a child molester. That's a lot of times.
> As I've said, Jordy is worst troll here -- that is to say he's the most annoying.

And as I've said, you're *the* worst troll here. Are you pretending to be Russian today?
> And yes, I've asked him to stop many times over the course of the past few years.
> > > If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.
> > That's all it takes to get along with Michael Monkey -- respect his wishes and be considerate of him. Of course, he'll still call you a child molester, but he'll be happier.
> >
> Again, we have stopped posting the "Jordy" poems several months ago. No one has been calling Jordy a "child molester" for some time now.
Yes, you've stopped calling Jordy a child molester for now. Just as you've stopped calling my father a child molester for now. And you think that means we have to be nice to you? You're like a bedbug complaining about being squashed, when he wasn't biting anyone at the time. Fuck you: you're a bedbug, and squashing is all that you deserve.

> I realize that you only come to AAPC when you're looking for a fight, but you really need to familiarize yourself with the current state of affairs before you go shooting your mouth off.

Michael, I realize I don't post here all day long like you and your Chimp (great "jobs" you have to let you do that, BTW), but I'm familiar enough with the "current state of affairs". The Chimp's got cocky, now that he thinks you got rid of Zod, and is simply hoping to repeat the success with Jordy.

> > The questions is: why the fuck does Michael Monkey think anyone would want to "get along" with a bedbug like him?
> Oh, look! Jim just called Jordy a "begbug," so now George the second-hander is going to call everyone else one.

Nice spelling lame, Michael; too bad "begbug" was your own invention. If you'd paid attention to the group, yourself, you'd note that I called your Ashtroll a piece of bedbug shit a week or so ago (with you being the bedbug whose shit he was). Stop trying to take credit for my lines -- it's as obnoxious as when you try to take credit for my poetry.

> > > No one here would bother you if you stopped annoying everyone with your inconsiderate behavior.
> > What a great deal for Jordy: Stop posting so much, so the Monkey and his flunkies are freed up to bother other people more. How could he refuse?
> >
> WTF is wrong with you, George Dance? No one would bother with *anyone* on your "team" if they weren't constantly trying to bury everyone else's conversations and poetry under a daily deluge of spam and nonsense.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 11:13:02 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:09:26 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 12:42:48 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:29:27 PM UTC-4, Edward Rochester Esq. wrote:
> > > > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > > > I find Dockery a wretched man, father husband and all around idiot.
> > > So you whine 24/7. Basically, you've done nothing with your life, and you're trying to feel better about yourself by telling yourself that at least you're better than someone else; because that's all you have.
> > >
> > None of us have become rich and famous, George. But most of us have raised families and been gainfully employed for most of our adult lives.
> Since the three of you are anonymous trolls, Michael, you can pretend to be anything you like. There is no reason for anyone to believe any of your stories about yourself, any more than there is to believe your stories about everyone else here.
>

Which three of us are you referring to, George? You had been trolling Jim, who most certainly is not anonymous.

Nor, for that matter, am I. Like many writers, I write and publish under a pseudonym. Would you call Mark Twain, George Eliot, Lewis Carroll, and... wait for it... Ayn Rand "anonymous"?

> > Will's "biographical" posts show that he constantly passed his children (and wife) off on his in-laws, and spent the time he should have been caring for his family out boozing, drugging, sleeping around with the local skanks; squatting in boarded up houses with no electricity or running water; and spending what little money he earned (20+ years ago when he was actually working) on drugs, leaving his wife to support their children.
> >
> > He now lives in a shed that he inherited from his mother -- after having lived off of her and his mentally disabled brother's disability check for 2+ decades; and has a son in prison for having sexually exploited minors.
> See above.
> > So, yeah... we can all point to Will Donkey and say "Hey, at least I'm doing better than him" (George "Stink" Sulzbach excepted).
> That's the option you've chosen. Alternately, you could look at your own accomplishments and derive your self-worth from them. But, of course, you can't do that (which is why you post anonymously); so inventing stories about Will is all you can do.
>

It may come to you as a shock, but I never think of the Donkey when I'm not posting in AAPC.

My accomplishments? I've raised three amazing children (put two through college, and will be sending the third to college next in 2024).

I have a steady job, own a home, and believe that I've been a good husband and father.

As a writer, I've had a modicum of success in the small press arena; have published several magazines and books; and have created many works that I am proud of.

In terms of self-worth, I'm happy with who I am. Some people say that I like myself a bit more than is considered normal -- but I'm happy with that as well.

And, finally, I haven't invented any stories about Will Donkey. Will has posted his "autobiography" here, on your wiki page, and elsewhere on the internet. Anything I've said about Will came straight from the Donkey's mouth..

> > But so what?
>
> You tell me. You and your Chimp are the ones whining about it.

Accusing others of "whining" is a typical troll tactic used to avoid the actual issue.

> > Most of us would naturally take pity on the Donkey and treat him with kindness (suffer the little children and the childlike in mind), if he weren't flooding the group with nonsense 24/7 ("Hello" posts, multiple threads for each of his poems, blog links, necroposts and necrobumps, constantly repeated one-liners that he's second-handed from everyone else, etc.
> Michael: the only people you "tolerate" on this group are those who cybersuck you; if you want a group composed only of those, then go find one. Ask your new friend "Piggy John-John" to set up an "alt.arts.suck-the monkey" group for you and them. Perfect solution.
> >

That's another bald-faced lie, George.

1) I treat everyone who posts here equally (whether that's considered "good" or "bad" depends on how much one appreciates my honest opinions and critiques). That is, I treat everyone equally *so long as they abide by the AAPC Guidelines.*
2) No one here "cybersucks" me.
3) If by "Piggy John-John" you mean PJR, I doubt he considers me his friend; and he certainly would not suck up to me.

You're accusing me of what you and Will do with your little circle jerk group. But then, that's what you always do.

> > It's easy for you to tolerate Will because you use AAPC primarily as a place to advertise your blog.
> Now, Michael, that's not true. Since you sniff behind me on every thread, you know that's not true. So, one has to ask again:
>
> Why do you lie so much, Michael Monkey?

That is true, George.

Most of your posts are links to your blog. Other than that, you only create/get involved in flame wars over your own poetry, or troll those you mistakenly see as your enemies.

You never offer critiques of others' poetry, and rarely write/post any new poems of your own.

> > The rest of us, who want to post *and discuss* poetry, do not appreciate having to sift through dozens of "hello" posts to find our conversations.
> Corey Conman explained what to do about that. The only reason you didn't pay attention is that you prefer to bitch and moan about everyone who's not on Team Monkey.
>

Do you have any idea as to how childish you sound?

I don't remember what Corey advised, but it obviously didn't work, or I'd have followed it.

Again, I automatically report/block every thread that's started by Jordy and Stinky George. However, blocking threads takes time -- which can add up when there are upwards of 50 such threads a day.

And, also again, it is extremely to know at what point a conversation one has been participating in has devolved into a series of "Hellos" between Jordy and Will -- until one has both opened it, and scrolled up it to see if there are any legitimate posts awaiting a response.

> > Teach your Donkey to be considerate of others, and others will be considerate of him in return. That's the non-petty, non-combative version of Tit for Tat that most people naturally ascribe to.
> Yes, Michael; but that won't work for people like you who don't follow that or any ethics. I'm sure Will's aware of that as well as I am.
> > > > Dockery likes being abused.
> > >
> > > That's what wannabe abusers always tell themselves.
> > Jim has a point there.
> >
> I explained his point. He's trying to justify acting like his Monkey King by victim-blaming.

No one is victim-blaming, George.

When Jordy first started posting uncommented on links, I repeatedly asked him to either provide comments or stop spamming them. Jordy refused.

When Jordy first started saying "Hello" to Will and Stinky 10x/day, I asked him to take it to his personal email, or (at Karen's suggestion) to limit his greeting to a single thread. Jordy refused.

When someone continues to do something that others have repeatedly asked him to stop doing because it is inconsiderate and annoying, he is not the victim, but the aggressor. "Passive-obnoxious" is the perfect description of his behavior.

> > When the Donkey is ignored, he'll often start new attack threads to get our attention.
> IOW - he'll post "Hello" or something, and you'll whine that it's an "attack thread" so that you can start attacking him again.

Again, if Jordy started behaving considerately to others, others would gladly be considerate in return.

> > > > And I will abuse him.
> > > No you don't. You whine and cry and waste his time; but you don't manage to actually hurt anyone.
> > Stop it, George. No one whines and cries here (except for you).
> "Waaah! We're *not* whining. You're just being mean to us!" What a silly little Monkey you sound like.

No one is whining, George.

At this point, you've progressed from whining to throwing a tantrum.

> And since the Donkey has no job or immediate family living with him, he has all the time in the world.
> You and the Chimp seem to have plenty of free time. (But of course you say you have "families" and "jobs".)

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > >
> > Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?
> And here's the chimp's litttle monkey pal to help him out with an IKYABWIJ.
> > You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.
> I wonder which is stupider: Michael Monkey's claim that this is his and his Chimp's group, or his claim that the two of them are familiar with "all" the poems online.
> > Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?
> >
> It's not inconsiderate to say "Hello" or to post links to poems. The Monkey's simply upset again, because Jordy's friendly to people he doesn't like..
> > Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?
> Why do you expect anyone to care? If that's a problem for you, I'm sure you can figure out how to change your settings, or get someone to explain it for you. Why should everyone else change their posting habits to accommodate you?
> > Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?
> No one is "forcing" you either you or the Chimp to click on anyone else's posts. If you don't like clicking on posts, then don't. I skip tons of your bullshit each day.
> > How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?
> Let's see: there's the Monkey, the Chimp, and the Big Buffoon: Team Monkey. The same three who like to repeatedly post that Jordy (being gay and Jewish) is a child molester -- without a thought for whether that's "considerate or not.
> > How many times have we asked you to stop?
> You piss and moan about Jordy's posts almost as many times as you've called him a child molester. That's a lot of times.
> > If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.
> That's all it takes to get along with Michael Monkey -- respect his wishes and be considerate of him. Of course, he'll still call you a child molester, but he'll be happier.
>
> The questions is: why the fuck does Michael Monkey think anyone would want to "get along" with a bedbug like him?
> > No one here would bother you if you stopped annoying everyone with your inconsiderate behavior.
> What a great deal for Jordy: Stop posting so much, so the Monkey and his flunkies are freed up to bother other people more. How could he refuse?
> > If you want peace, stop the "Hello" posts.
> That isn't going to help.
> > This is a poetry group, not your personal message board.
> So go post some poetry; stop whining and crying about what everyone else posts.
> > If you want peace, stop posting youtube links. We can all do our own internet searches for poetry that interests us.
> Of course you three aren't 're not interested in any but your own "poetry.." That's no reason for everyone else to stop posting or reading them.
> > This is a "comments" group. If you have something to *say* about one of those poems, you link, we'd all be happy to learn your thoughts on it and discuss it with you.
> What makes you think Jordy, or anyone else, would want to "discuss" poetry with you three trolls?
> >
> > But posting links without comments is a wasted of everyone's time.
> "Wasted" is an adjective, Monkey; you're using it as a noun. Maybe Jordy can find some links to grammar pages for you; but, since you wouldn't read them either, that would be a "wasted" too.
> > Respect the wishes of others, and they'll respect yours. Be considerate of others, and they'll be considerate in return.
> As someone who's tried that with the Monkey and the Chimp, I can assure Jordy that is not gonna happen. Notice that the Monkey's appealing to the same ethical rule (reciprocity) that he insists he doesn't have to follow.
> > Right now, you are considered the worst troll in the group -- because you have the least to say. How many thousands of "Hello" posts have you made over the past few years?
> So, you call him a "troll". Why should he care?
> > Jim was tying to reason with you, just as I am trying to reason with you now.
> The Chimp was trolling him, just like you're trolling him.
> > You are not a scapegoat. You are the problem.
> You're trying the same victim-blaming as your Chimp.
> > Treat others as you'd like them to treat you in return. You'll be pleasantly surprised at the results.
> If it's anything like that happened to me when I tried it, the results will be: Jordy will post less, while the Monkey and the Chimp will keep trolling (or, as the Monkey calls it, "reasoning") as usual.

Exactly, since Michael Pendragon hasn't stopped slinging his monkey shit since 2017.

HTH and HAND.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 12:47:54 PM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:51:33 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-4, George Dance wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 9:10:03 AM UTC-4, Michael Monkey aka "Michael Pendragon" wrote:
> > > > On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> > > > > how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > > > >
> > > > Has it ever occurred to you that *you* are the "bully" here?
> > > And here's the chimp's litttle monkey pal to help him out with an IKYABWIJ.
> > Behave yourself, George.
> >
> > The fact that you refer to Jim and I as a "chimp" and a "monkey" reveal your desire to keep AAPC a breeding ground for trolls and flamewars.
> > > > You constantly flood our group with "Hello" posts and spam links to poems we're all familiar with.
> > > I wonder which is stupider: Michael Monkey's claim that this is his and his Chimp's group, or his claim that the two of them are familiar with "all" the poems online.
> > >
> > AAPC is our group, George. It's your group, too -- even though you do your best to help the Donkey run it into the ground.
> >
> > And, yes, I can safely say that most of us are familiar with the poetry "Jordy" posts links to. Most of these are well known poems that we read in our high school English classes.
> > > > Do you realize how inconsiderate that is?
> > > >
> > > It's not inconsiderate to say "Hello" or to post links to poems. The Monkey's simply upset again, because Jordy's friendly to people he doesn't like.
> > >
> > It's extremely rude to post 15 "Hellos" a day, George.
> >
> > It's an attempt to 1) flood the group with garbage so that most of us will get tired of sifting through it and leave, and 2) an attempt to bury all of our conversations for the same reason.
> No, Michael, it really isn't. Just because you and the Chimp constantly think about Will and Jordy, does not mean that they think that much about you at all. I think you know that they don't, which is why you're constantly trying to get in their face (like here).
> > > > Do you realize that some of us have AAPC notices show up in our email as well?
> > > Why do you expect anyone to care? If that's a problem for you, I'm sure you can figure out how to change your settings, or get someone to explain it for you. Why should everyone else change their posting habits to accommodate you?
> > I don't link AAPC to my email, but others may do so.
> IOW, you're now whining about Jordy not "realizing" something you just made up.

I've had AAPC set to post alerts in my email in the past. I'm sure others have done so as well.

> > Again, it's inconsiderate to anyone who might be doing it.
> If anyone feels abused by it, they can read the advice I just gave them. It's not that hard to change one's group settings.

Or Jordy could just be considerate.

> > > > Do you ever think that you're wasting everyone's time by forcing them to click on 15 "Hello" posts a day?
> > > No one is "forcing" you either you or the Chimp to click on anyone else's posts. If you don't like clicking on posts, then don't. I skip tons of your bullshit each day.
> > >
> > No one clicks on threads Jordy starts (except to report them as spam and have them blocked).
> If that's what you're doing, then you're only clicking on his posts 15 times a day because you want to. Stop your paranoia about others "forcing" you to do that.
>

I have to click on the "report spam" button to block them.

If I don't block them, they will keep popping up 6+ times a day when Jordy and Will perform their ritual greetings.

> > However, Will and Jordy start their "Hello" routine in the middle of ongoing conversations, and these are much more difficult to filter out..
> I have the same problem finding and reporting your Chimp's (and your other flunkies') troll posts. But unlike you I can take responsibility for my choices, rather than jabber that they're "forcing" me to report them.
>

You report posts to have them removed.

I report them as "spam" since it's the only means I have of blocking them.

You do so out of pettiness.

I do so in an attempt to filter out Jordy's idiotic spam.

> > Nor should anyone have to filter out dozens of mindless "Hello" posts a day in a Usenet group that they've joined to discuss poetry with others.
> If anyone ever comes here again to discuss poetry, that may be an issue. I'm content to leave it for if or when it comes up.

People usually "lurk" in a group for a few days to get a feel for it prior to joining. No one would ever join a group where 3/4s of the threads consist of Will exchanging greetings with Jordy.

> > It is rude to the point of being passively obnoxious (passive-obnoxious is a new psychological term I've just coined specifically for Jordy).
> Not the first time you've tried to pass of your insults as "psychology". I think this is the perfect time for the perennial question:
> What the fuck is wrong with you, Michael Monkey?

If the diagnosis fits...

> > > > How many AAPC members have repeatedly asked you to stop?
> > > Let's see: there's the Monkey, the Chimp, and the Big Buffoon: Team Monkey. The same three who like to repeatedly post that Jordy (being gay and Jewish) is a child molester -- without a thought for whether that's "considerate or not.
> > >
> > We've stopped the child molester posts several months ago, George. It hasn't caused "Jordy" to cut back on his obnoxious "Hello" posts in return.
> Yes, Michael, I know that -- remember, I spend most of my time hear looking for and reporting Team Monkey trolls.

You've misspelled "here," George.

> I also know why you stopped; it wasn't to be nice to Jordy, and it wasn't because you worked out an accommodation with him. Nor does it make you a "nice" person who deserves "consideration" -- you three are still throwing your monkey poo at him, this thread being a good example.
>

Why do you think I've stopped, George?

> > As for you accusatory implications: I'm Jewish, and I sincerely believe that "Jordy's" relationship with his nephew is... disturbing.
> Just as you believe all your real and imagined enemies, including not just me but my father, are child molesters. But, please: tell me that you've stopped calling my father that, so you're really a nice person after all.
>

According to your poem, your father abused you physically, and your family abused you emotionally. Your poem also implies that your father sodomized you on a regular basis.

If that isn't the message that you wanted to get across, I suggest that you revise your poem accordingly.

> > > > How many times have we asked you to stop?
> > > You piss and moan about Jordy's posts almost as many times as you've called him a child molester. That's a lot of times.
> > As I've said, Jordy is worst troll here -- that is to say he's the most annoying.
> And as I've said, you're *the* worst troll here. Are you pretending to be Russian today?

Illya rub off.

(In more ways than one.)

> > And yes, I've asked him to stop many times over the course of the past few years.
> > > > If you wish to get along with others, you need to respect their wishes. You need to be considerate of them.
> > > That's all it takes to get along with Michael Monkey -- respect his wishes and be considerate of him. Of course, he'll still call you a child molester, but he'll be happier.
> > >
> > Again, we have stopped posting the "Jordy" poems several months ago. No one has been calling Jordy a "child molester" for some time now.
> Yes, you've stopped calling Jordy a child molester for now. Just as you've stopped calling my father a child molester for now. And you think that means we have to be nice to you? You're like a bedbug complaining about being squashed, when he wasn't biting anyone at the time. Fuck you: you're a bedbug, and squashing is all that you deserve.
>

George Dance wrote:

> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 10:57:39 PM UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
>> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsibility...

> You're right, Jordy. Thank you for speaking up.

Agreed and seconded.

🙂

LISTEN! While I talk to a wall
an exercise in futility, I know
But I'm sure I'm not alone
so many do so, to hear their echoes
-- (from Woke Verses)

No one to talk to while alone?
No need to pick up a phone
Just go to AAPC for your hellos
and you'll find your nodfellows
cheap 'n easy, they'll be your salutatory hos
they'll hola you long time for the rub of their ego

"Kill the spirits and you'll be blinded
And the end is always the same
Play with fire you burn your fingers
And lose your hold of the flame, oh
It's over, it's done
The end has begun
If you listen to fools
The mob rules..."
--'Mob Rules' ~~Black Sabbath w/ Ronnie James Dio \m/

I can finally see my screen again...
And what in the misbegotten legacy of whippin' fools is goin' on this troll time?

ME wrote:

> On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
>> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> That’s exactly what will and dance does.

You seem confused again.

🙂

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 5:26:53 PM UTC-4, W-Dockery wrote:
> ME wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
> >
> >> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsilibulity...
> > That’s exactly what will and dance does.
> You seem confused again.

Bury away sWilly, I have a whole salvo ready for you...
Now since you cannot ever detail how someone is confused, it's perhaps you that is confused- but more likely deluded...

Such an interesting devolution of an "Usenet veteran", of his ego's prostitution, selling itself for illusion of a self aggrandizing revolution, only devolving into Lilliputian delusion.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 5:45:23 PM UTC-4, Ash Wurthing wrote:
>
> > On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 22:57:39 UTC-4, Jordy C wrote:
>
> > >> how telling and insightful... the logic of the bully and abuser apparently, blaming scapegoats, denying and shifting responsibility for hideous behvaior... openly admitting to being abusive and bullying on a long term basis, yet basically implicitly contending that this abuse and bullying is not his fault or the fault of the other abusers, it is the fault of the person who is NOT being abusive, the person who is friends with the victim and gets along well with the victim... What a sad, nasty, mean spirited, petty example of human behavior, blaming scapegoats and shifting blame rather than accept responsibility...
>
> Bury away

Let's not.