In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oi55r1j6j0mw003@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> > Mickmane wrote:
>> >> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
>> >> comprehensible. :)
>> >
>> > Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
>> > stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
>> > cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
>> > episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
>> > concentration to follow it!
>>
>> False!
>
>IYIO!
>
>> Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC
>> was no place for scifi!
>
>They certainly played their part, and maybe they also had ideas for
>shows that would attract more viewers to BBC1 than any sci-fi shows
>could? At the time that was their job.
>
>That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job, the scripts
>were [generally] poor and the rock-bottom ratings reflected the
>apathy among the general public for Doctor Who.

The whole quality of the BBC suffered under those 2!

Thank goodness Alan Yentob got BBC1 back up!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GYyKql4aczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <xn0oi55r1j6j0mw003@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Mickmane wrote:
>
>(For once, doctor replying to everything without snipping is useful!)
>

Exactly!

>>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>>> Survival.
>>>
>>> S26 was broadcast out of order. "Ghost Light" was the last Doctor
>>> Who story made before the show was cancelled. Two stories produced
>>> earlier were broadcast after "Ghost Light".
>>>
>>> "Survival" was the last episode of Doctor Who broadcast obviously,
>>> but it was made before "Ghost Light".
>
>Oh, didn't know that.
>

BS is correct!

>>>> To be 'one of the better' stories, I'd expect it to be
>>>> comprehensible. :)
>>>
>>> Better as in relatively when compared to other Seventh Doctor
>>> stories. As the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor Who was so bad they
>>> cancelled the show. Ghost Light wasn't one of JNT's 'pantomime'
>>> episodes, it had an okay story for that era, it just needed
>>> concentration to follow it!
>
>Pantomime episodes?
>

His opinion

>> False! Grade/Powell wants to cancel as in there view, BBC was no
>> place for scifi!
>
>Boo!
>

Exactly!!!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>[Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>
>>>> MM for you!
>>>
>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>
>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>
>Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
>who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
>the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.
>
>Or take crime series like Criminal Intent or Criminal Minds. Takes a
>while (weeks, months) until I even know the detectives' names. Suspects
>and victim have no chance at all, so I rarely know who they're talking
>about. :)
>

You are MM too!

>>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>>
>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>>> me.)
>
>> The Mara
>
>Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering to?
>

Snakedance.

>>> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he
>>> goes on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that
>>> talky non- visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to
>>> expell him into no-air planet outside?
>
>> Yes that one!
>
>Hah, for once my memory worked! :)
>

There you go!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GYyKsAH5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKWDb5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKC2YqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> Why do most of Blueshirt's posts no longer turn up here anywhere!?
>>>
>>>> Maybe your nntp provider is mad at his provider!
>>>
>>> Hah, doubtful. He's a real person who supplies Usenet and Fidonet as
>>> a hobby. (And also a gateway between the two. Until I moved in 2009
>>> and got broadband for the new flat, I used my 28.8 modem to call his
>>> directly computer via landline.)
>
>> ti is NNTP vs NNTP providers!
>
>Going back and looking at headers, it seems that for about 2 weeks now
>posts from "Organisat. : xs news" no longer arrive, while those from
>"Organisat. : Indigo News" still get through.
>
>I'll ask the kruemel.org owner if he can make anything of it.
>
Best practice.

>>>>> There's still two stories after it; the Curse of the Fenric, and
>>>>> Survival.
>>>
>>>> both are grand IMHO.
>>>
>>> Survival is the one with the cat people? I remember watching that
>>> before, but now it's the last story remaining on the list of Classic
>>> to (re-)watch.
>
>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>
>Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or fish,
>just plain boring.
>

He was really evil!

If we fight like animal, we die like animals!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi5iwxjoa9rj000@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > That one! THe Master was in it!
>>
>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> fish, just plain boring.
>
>Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>
>Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>years?

https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

The Doctor wrote on 17/2/24 9:55 am:
> In article <xn0oi5iwxjoa9rj000@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>
>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>> fish, just plain boring.
>>
>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>>
>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>> years?
>
> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
>
"costume contast"?? What's a 'contast', "Yellow Beard Yadallee"??

"This Page is based on the personality of Dave Yadallee" .... So that
would be a *ZERO* then, "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!!

"Dave believes in completeness, so never say a Domain is a Web Page URL!!"!!

"World wide Web PAge"?? The same old "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!! "PAge"!!

"For a Web Page, develop for a 486 with 8 MB of RAM and you got
it,otherwise chug, chug, and go to sleep while waiting." ?? "Yellow
Beard Yadallee" must be sooooo busy with his Toastmaster friends that he
can't even update *HIS* webpage .... even if he has the knowledge to do it!!

"BBC announces ninth doctor"!! WOW!! Up-to-date!!
--
Daniel

On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>
>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> fish, just plain boring.

> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.

More names. Google helped. Dave is doctor? Did they actually know each
other, or is doctor just a fan?

> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
> years?

Oh, photo indicates real life meeting.

But what the actors do could at best not ruin my enjoyment of a TV
series or film. I prefer not to know anything about them.

For me, what counts are the characters. Not the actor's fault if they
are written lame.

--

Mickmane

On 17.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKsAH5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>
>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> fish, just plain boring.

> He was really evil!

He is completely nuts, with ridiculous ideas and obsessions.

That has me wonder, when someone is completely nuts, can you call them
evil, or are they not responsible for their actions?

Can someone who's not responsible for their actions (because their
head's screwed on weirdly and just doesn't work properly) be called
evil?

And does scale play a role? If someone's nuts and 'just' affects his
neighbours, and can be locked up, is it different to someone who's
mighty and has tech or magic to prevent being locked up?

(I've written some stories for myself - don't like what's published
anymore - including some evil overlords and ladies. Most of them are
completely nuts. They can't just be locked up though, too powerful. Same
question applies there: Are they actually evil or just crazy, or both?)

--

Mickmane

> In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>> Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,

Why was he not the man for the job?

--

Mickmane

On 17.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
> In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>> companions.

> You are MM too!

Oh, right!

Though most just shorten it to Mick. :) (Or if they have some reading
problem, or I don't know what, sometimes it ends up Mike. It's
interesting how some Twitch streamers can't get my name right.)

>>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently
>>>> being hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that
>>>> bothered me.)
>>
>>> The Mara
>>
>> Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering
>> to?

> Snakedance.

Yes, which of the two episodes I described was called that?

I guess I'd have to check an episode list or something. :P

--

Mickmane

In article <uqprtv$b4gi$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote on 17/2/24 9:55 am:
>> In article <xn0oi5iwxjoa9rj000@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>>> Mickmane wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>>
>>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>>> fish, just plain boring.
>>>
>>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>>>
>>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>>> years?
>>
>> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
>>
>"costume contast"?? What's a 'contast', "Yellow Beard Yadallee"??
>
>"This Page is based on the personality of Dave Yadallee" .... So that
>would be a *ZERO* then, "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!!
>
>"Dave believes in completeness, so never say a Domain is a Web Page URL!!"!!
>
>"World wide Web PAge"?? The same old "Yellow Beard Yadallee"!! "PAge"!!
>
>"For a Web Page, develop for a 486 with 8 MB of RAM and you got
>it,otherwise chug, chug, and go to sleep while waiting." ?? "Yellow
>Beard Yadallee" must be sooooo busy with his Toastmaster friends that he
>can't even update *HIS* webpage .... even if he has the knowledge to do it!!
>
>"BBC announces ninth doctor"!! WOW!! Up-to-date!!

Well then you can click on the blog link Red-bearded Dannyboy!

>--
>Daniel

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LCIDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKsAH5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>
>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>> fish, just plain boring.
>
>> He was really evil!
>
>He is completely nuts, with ridiculous ideas and obsessions.
>
>That has me wonder, when someone is completely nuts, can you call them
>evil, or are they not responsible for their actions?
>
>Can someone who's not responsible for their actions (because their
>head's screwed on weirdly and just doesn't work properly) be called
>evil?
>
>And does scale play a role? If someone's nuts and 'just' affects his
>neighbours, and can be locked up, is it different to someone who's
>mighty and has tech or magic to prevent being locked up?
>
>(I've written some stories for myself - don't like what's published
>anymore - including some evil overlords and ladies. Most of them are
>completely nuts. They can't just be locked up though, too powerful. Same
>question applies there: Are they actually evil or just crazy, or both?)
>

I like the Evil Master!!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LCFrLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> Mickmane wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> That one! THe Master was in it!
>>>
>>> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>>> fish, just plain boring.
>
>> Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best buds.
>
>More names. Google helped. Dave is doctor? Did they actually know each
>other, or is doctor just a fan?
>
>> Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>> years?
>
>Oh, photo indicates real life meeting.
>
>But what the actors do could at best not ruin my enjoyment of a TV
>series or film. I prefer not to know anything about them.
>
>For me, what counts are the characters. Not the actor's fault if they
>are written lame.
>

There you go!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LDMB5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>
>>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of Doctor
>>> Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>
>Why was he not the man for the job?
>

No justification from Captain Bluebeard Blueshirt!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LEY2LczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKr0vaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>>
>>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>>
>>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>>> companions.
>
>> You are MM too!
>
>Oh, right!
>
>Though most just shorten it to Mick. :) (Or if they have some reading
>problem, or I don't know what, sometimes it ends up Mike. It's
>interesting how some Twitch streamers can't get my name right.)
>

We will now have to be careful
!

>>>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently
>>>>> being hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that
>>>>> bothered me.)
>>>
>>>> The Mara
>>>
>>> Yup, that thing. Which episode that it turns up were you refering
>>> to?
>
>> Snakedance.
>
>Yes, which of the two episodes I described was called that?
>
>I guess I'd have to check an episode list or something. :P

Videos, scripts, reviews ...

>
>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>
>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>
>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>>> rest... not so much.
>
>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>
> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.

I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I don’t think
it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).

>
>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual,
>> being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour
>> palette to play school level and generally trying to lower the tone
>> back to season 24 levels.
>
> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>
> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.

Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and the
only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and excellent
writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman origin story to
date, “Spare Parts”, a Fifth Doctor adventure.

Well worth a listen even if you aren’t usually into radio plays.

John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a “master plan” to
make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with origins well before
the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly grooming (in the not
creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to the Time Lord Academy, hence
the various “tests” of her in this season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of
Fenric.

JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who slowly
onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker’s final season. He
it was who introduced Tom’s burgundy coat, and wanted Colin Baker’s costume
to be hideously flamboyant and the character to become obnoxious. He was
responsible for the loud electronic background music, the over lit primary
colours of everything, and for choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville
comedian with no acting skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses
of guest appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from
the sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.

>
>> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
>> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
>> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
>> concept to begin with.
>
> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
> that was season 25.
>
> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight here?
And why? Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?) And why was the sword
fighting so shite?

There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that’s a bit more coherent - I think
it’s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>
>>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>>
>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>> MM for you!
>
> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>
>>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>>> that was season 25.
>>>
>>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>
>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>
> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much later
> episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being hidden in
> Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered me.)

Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake monster.
Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a very effete
turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather tgin plot. And
yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan’s mind. Apparently.

> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
> on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
> visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
> no-air planet outside?
>
> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
> the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
> any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
> ending.

The Absorbaloff was a child’s winning creation in an alien contest, so RTD
had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was pretty poor
and getting Peter Kay to play it didn’t help at all, picking another winner
would have been a better choice.

I didn’t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest of
the episode, but I’m sure it would have gone over the heads of young
children so no harm done. “Doctor-Lite” is a way of filming two episodes at
the same time and a budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside
Turn Left, so we get one episode essentially without Donna and another
essentially without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it
works, sometimes it doesn’t.

>
> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
> the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.

No, it wasn’t. I might wish it was. But it wasn’t.

> And even Toymaker confirmed
> that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor.

Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in “The Brain of
Morbius”? And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with
Omega and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks). And when
was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).

And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
Doctor’s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in Flux?

> (He'd know! And likes
> jabs at the Doctor.)

Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn’t see any such thing. Indeed
the Toymaker doubled down on the “truth” of the Timeless Children by
referring to the Flux.

Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also affirmed it,
by telling the Doctor that he didn’t know who he was any more.

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>
>>>> MM for you!
>>>
>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>
>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>
> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
> who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
> the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.

Dave “Yads”, “Yellowbeard” Yadallee refuses to stop posting as “the Doctor”
despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on Usenet.

I am the one he usually refers to as “MM”, posting as “The Last Doctor” in
protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to himself that is
utterly unfitting.

Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials are
AGA and used to post as “Agamemnon”) who now posts as “The True Doctor”
which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of Trump-like insanity
and the other half reflects views that would be anathema to the Doctor (the
TV character, not Yads). But that’s just my opinion … make your own mind up
on that one!

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi5iwxjoa9rj000@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> > Mickmane wrote:
> >
> >> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
> <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > That one! THe Master was in it!
> >>
> >> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
> >> fish, just plain boring.
> >
> > Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best
> > buds.
> >
> > Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
> > years?
>
> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/

That's the one! You look very dapper David...

I was never a fan of Ainley's Master though, as far as I was
concerned, Roger Delgado was THE Master!

Mickmane wrote:

> > In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> > Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>
> >> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
> >> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>
> Why was he not the man for the job?

McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
throw in, Bonnie Langford, Kenn Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts villain,
spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a pantomime
Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However, the scripts
for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a darker, more
manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time Lord". I don't
think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that role at the time and
I look back on a lot of his televised stories as an embarrassment.

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <GZ1LDMB5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> >> In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
> >> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> >>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
> >>> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
> >
> > Why was he not the man for the job?
>
> No justification from Captain Bluebeard Blueshirt!

Look again!

Unlike your hospital my psych ward only allows me access to the
computer room at certain times of the day... so show some patience.

The Last Doctor wrote:

> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> > On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
> >> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which
> >> things didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting
> >> accidentally stalled through time, they experienced the reality
> >> of evolution and went a bit mad in different ways. And then ?
> >
> > Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
> I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I
> don’t think it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).

I never read the "Ghost Light" Target novel but of the Seventh
Doctor 'Target' books that I did read, they certainly did help
expand on the televised episodes... especially Ben Aaronovitch's
"Remembrance of the Daleks" novelisation.

When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels as a
way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans shouldn't have
needed to read a novel to understand the televised episodes. If you
don't know what's going on from watching the episode on-screen then
quite simply it's been badly produced.

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:

>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>
>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>> me.)

> Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake
> monster. Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a
> very effete turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather
> tgin plot. And yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan?s mind. Apparently.

Ah, so it was the second episode I described.

And yeah, totally out of the blue. :/

No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo, but I
can't figure out for what.)

>> Midnight, [...]
>>
>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent.
>> Now the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof.
>> Hardly any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and
>> ghastly ending.

> The Absorbaloff was a child?s winning creation in an alien contest,
> so RTD had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was
> pretty poor and getting Peter Kay to play it didn?t help at all,
> picking another winner would have been a better choice.

Oh. I don't want to pick on any child's imagination. :)

I don't know what exactly the child's creation was, so can't think how
it could have been a better story.

But what bugs me most is that there's hardly any Doctor in the episode.
It's just slightly worse than Blink(*), which also had hardly any Doctor
in it.

(*) I think that was the episode name, first one with the weeping
angels, focussing on some normal people.

Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.

> I didn?t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest
> of the episode, but I?m sure it would have gone over the heads of
> young children so no harm done.

Not just that, but who'd think it's a satisfying end to live as a rock!?
No eating, no breathing,... Never mind that there's no way to affect
anything at all, can't even turn a page when reading, and no hope of
recovery.

> ?Doctor-Lite? is a way of filming two episodes at the same time and a
> budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside Turn Left, so we
> get one episode essentially without Donna and another essentially
> without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it works,
> sometimes it doesn?t.

Oh, I didn't notice that there hardly was any Doctor in Turn Left. It
was an interesting enough episode! (And still had Donna, not just some
nonames.)

>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's
>> just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.

> No, it wasn?t. I might wish it was. But it wasn?t.

I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)

>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>> first Doctor.

> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in ?The Brain of
> Morbius??

Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think anything
else.

> And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with Omega
> and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
> legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks).

Obviously something he remembered, and therefore can't have been pre-
first Doctor.

> And when was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).

In the future, that wasn't filmed due to cancelling the show.

> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
> Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in
> Flux?

They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May surely,
but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much nonsense!)

>> (He'd know! And likes jabs at the Doctor.)

> Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn?t see any such thing.
> Indeed the Toymaker doubled down on the ?truth? of the Timeless
> Children by referring to the Flux.

I was sure he'd said the first game with the first Doctor.

But all I got now is the script from the Giggle:
"INTERCUT his CU with IMAGES from The Celestial Toymaker (1966). But now
in COLOUR. The First Doctor & the First Toymaker; his robes, his smile,
his power."

Can't find 'Flux' in the script.

> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also
> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was any
> more.

Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything

--

Mickmane

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:

>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>
>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>
>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.

> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman
> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.

> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.

I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
especially on the balcony in summer.)

I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
media of Doctor Who, though.

> John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a ?master
> plan? to make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with
> origins well before the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly
> grooming (in the not creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to
> the Time Lord Academy, hence the various ?tests? of her in this
> season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric.

Weird.

> JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who
> slowly onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker?s final
> season. He it was who introduced Tom?s burgundy coat, and wanted
> Colin Baker?s costume to be hideously flamboyant and the character to
> become obnoxious. He was responsible for the loud electronic
> background music, the over lit primary colours of everything, and for
> choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville comedian with no acting
> skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses of guest
> appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from the
> sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
> Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.

Hm, I think I'll stick to not wanting to know anything about the real
people behind the show. :)

>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)

> Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight
> here?

Magic? ;P

> And why?

You could apply "Why?" to a lot of Doctor Who. :))))

> Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?)

In the future he went back to do stuff he'd obviously done in the past,
but it was never filmed.

> And why was the sword fighting so shite?

Was it? I hardly pay attention to such things. :)

> There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that?s a bit more coherent - I
> think it?s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?

I wouldn't know.

--

Mickmane

On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:

>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>
>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>> companions.

> Dave ?Yads?, ?Yellowbeard? Yadallee refuses to stop posting as ?the
> Doctor? despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on
> Usenet.

He just turns up as "doctor" here, not "the Doctor".

Usenet might be shrinking, but it's still is big. I'm sure I could find
some less Doctor-like posters. :P

> I am the one he usually refers to as ?MM?, posting as ?The Last
> Doctor? in protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to
> himself that is utterly unfitting.

Oh, another feud here.

> Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials
> are AGA and used to post as ?Agamemnon?) who now posts as ?The True
> Doctor? which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of
> Trump-like insanity and the other half reflects views that would be
> anathema to the Doctor (the TV character, not Yads). But that?s just
> my opinion ? make your own mind up on that one!

I don't think I've seen their posts.

Could be that they ended up in my killfile long ago when posting
somewhere else. I know one not-seen but regularly mentioned name here
sounded familiar, but no posts arrive. Checking revealed that he's in
the killfile.

--

Mickmane