On 17.02.24, Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> Mickmane wrote:
>>> In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:

>>>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
>>>> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>>
>> Why was he not the man for the job?

> McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
> seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
> throw in, Bonnie Langford, Kenn Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts villain,
> spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a pantomime
> Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense.

You lost me.

(Maybe just mention what they did instead of names... Or better, let's
stick to in-show stuff. :) )

> However, the scripts for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of
> a darker, more manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time
> Lord". I don't think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that role at
> the time and I look back on a lot of his televised stories as an
> embarrassment.

Ah.

I think the Doctor is special enough as he is, one Time Lord among many,
who does his own thing. Trying to make him more would only lessen him.

--

Mickmane

Mickmane wrote:

> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
> > Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
> >> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
> >> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>
> > No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.
>
> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)

I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
stuff.
> >> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
> >> first Doctor.
>
> > Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain
> > of Morbius??
>
> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
> anything else.

Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!

As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...

This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
idea forty years before!!!

Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
throw in his own tosh!

Mickmane wrote:
>
> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>
> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
> non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.

https://www.bigfinish.com/

In article <uqqopl$glbb$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>>>
>>>> What were the aliens, why were they there, what happened!? :)
>>>>
>>>> All I know is that the Doctor and Ace were there, and that she'd
>>>> burned down the house when younger, in the future, due to a
>>>> lingering sense of evil or something. _That_ I understand. The
>>>> rest... not so much.
>>
>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>
>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>
>I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I don’t think
>it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).
>

You need to pay closer attention!

>>
>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as usual,
>>> being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up the colour
>>> palette to play school level and generally trying to lower the tone
>>> back to season 24 levels.
>>
>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>
>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>
>Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and the
>only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and excellent
>writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman origin story to
>date, “Spare Parts”, a Fifth Doctor adventure.
>
>Well worth a listen even if you aren’t usually into radio plays.
>
>John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a “master plan” to
>make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with origins well before
>the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly grooming (in the not
>creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to the Time Lord Academy, hence
>the various “tests” of her in this season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of
>Fenric.
>
>JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who slowly
>onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker’s final season. He
>it was who introduced Tom’s burgundy coat, and wanted Colin Baker’s costume
>to be hideously flamboyant and the character to become obnoxious. He was
>responsible for the loud electronic background music, the over lit primary
>colours of everything, and for choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville
>comedian with no acting skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses
>of guest appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from
>the sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
>Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.
>

So are you doing a Chris Chibnall a la On Air?

>>
>>> Result - a colourful, incoherent, confused mess. One of three stories
>>> in this season that fell short of their promise, the exception being
>>> ?Survival? and that?s because there wasn?t much promise in that
>>> concept to begin with.
>>
>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>> that was season 25.
>>
>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>
>Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight here?
>And why? Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?) And why was the sword
>fighting so shite?
>
>There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that’s a bit more coherent - I think
>it’s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?
>

WEll there you are.

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <uqqqd7$gvl8$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>>>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Rewatched Ghost Light (Classic episode from season 26), and again
>>>>>> I'm going... "What?!"
>>
>>>>> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>>>>> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which things
>>>>> didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting accidentally stalled
>>>>> through time, they experienced the reality of evolution and went a
>>>>> bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>
>>> MM for you!
>>
>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>>> The story after Ghost Light (the Curse of the Fenric) wasn't that
>>>> coherent either. The third is the Greatest Show in the Galaxy? Wait,
>>>> that was season 25.
>>>>
>>>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>>
>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>
>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much later
>> episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being hidden in
>> Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered me.)
>
>Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake monster.
>Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a very effete
>turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather tgin plot. And
>yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan’s mind. Apparently.
>

For quite some time!

>
>> Midnight, Ten(nant) episode, with Donna relaxing somewhere while he goes
>> on some shuttle sight-eeing tour to planet Midnight, and that talky non-
>> visible thing takes over some woman? Where they want to expell him into
>> no-air planet outside?
>>
>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent. Now
>> the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof. Hardly
>> any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and ghastly
>> ending.
>
>The Absorbaloff was a child’s winning creation in an alien contest, so RTD
>had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was pretty poor
>and getting Peter Kay to play it didn’t help at all, picking another winner
>would have been a better choice.
>
>I didn’t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest of
>the episode, but I’m sure it would have gone over the heads of young
>children so no harm done. “Doctor-Lite” is a way of filming two episodes at
>the same time and a budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside
>Turn Left, so we get one episode essentially without Donna and another
>essentially without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it
>works, sometimes it doesn’t.
>

Lamer!

>>
>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's just
>> the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>
>No, it wasn’t. I might wish it was. But it wasn’t.
>
>> And even Toymaker confirmed
>> that our first Doctor was the actual first Doctor.
>
>Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in “The Brain of
>Morbius”? And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with
>Omega and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
>legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks). And when
>was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).
>
>And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
>Doctor’s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in Flux?
>
>> (He'd know! And likes
>> jabs at the Doctor.)
>
>Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn’t see any such thing. Indeed
>the Toymaker doubled down on the “truth” of the Timeless Children by
>referring to the Flux.
>
>Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also affirmed it,
>by telling the Doctor that he didn’t know who he was any more.
>

sO MM meet MM!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <uqqqok$h2l3$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>
>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>
>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>
>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>
>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all actors
>> who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone not seen on
>> the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the companions.
>
>Dave “Yads”, “Yellowbeard” Yadallee refuses to stop posting as
>“the Doctor”
>despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on Usenet.
>

That is your opinion.

>I am the one he usually refers to as “MM”, posting as “The Last
>Doctor” in
>protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to himself that is
>utterly unfitting.
>

IYIO

>Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials are
>AGA and used to post as “Agamemnon”) who now posts as “The True Doctor”
>which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of Trump-like insanity
>and the other half reflects views that would be anathema to the Doctor (the
>TV character, not Yads). But that’s just my opinion … make your own mind up
>on that one!
>

Exactly!

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi6y0gl4hqpd003@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oi5iwxjoa9rj000@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> > Mickmane wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
>> <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > That one! THe Master was in it!
>> >>
>> >> Oh, so then it's just lame. That dude isn't even like vistors or
>> >> fish, just plain boring.
>> >
>> > Dave won't like that... Anthony Ainley and himself were best
>> > buds.
>> >
>> > Where's that famous photo again Dave, I haven't seen it for a few
>> > years?
>>
>> https://www.nk.ca/~doctor/
>
>That's the one! You look very dapper David...
>
>I was never a fan of Ainley's Master though, as far as I was
>concerned, Roger Delgado was THE Master!

You and I both!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi6ym2l5d18i007@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>
>> > In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> > Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>>
>> >> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
>> >> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>>
>> Why was he not the man for the job?
>
>McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
>seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
>throw in, Bonnie Langford, Kenn Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts villain,
>spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a pantomime
>Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However, the scripts
>for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a darker, more
>manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time Lord". I don't
>think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that role at the time and
>I look back on a lot of his televised stories as an embarrassment.

Well he beat out everyone in the auditions!

He also came back in 1996!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi6z2bl5vcx7009@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <GZ1LDMB5czB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> >> In article <xn0oi5ggyjl1ags000@reader.xsnews.nl>,
>> >> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> That doesn't change the fact that the Sylvester McCoy era of
>> >>> Doctor Who was crap! McCoy himself was not the man for the job,
>> >
>> > Why was he not the man for the job?
>>
>> No justification from Captain Bluebeard Blueshirt!
>
>Look again!
>
>Unlike your hospital my psych ward only allows me access to the
>computer room at certain times of the day... so show some patience.

I just saw your post.

I still say no justification.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi6zahl676ak00a@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> > On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Light, Control and Josiah were the - crew? - components? - AI
>> >> entities? - of a vessel from another reality. One in which
>> >> things didn?t evolve. Sent to study Earth and getting
>> >> accidentally stalled through time, they experienced the reality
>> >> of evolution and went a bit mad in different ways. And then ?
>> >
>> > Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>
>> I may have picked that up from the novelisation. Looking back I
>> don’t think it was made clear in the show (mind you not much was).
>
>I never read the "Ghost Light" Target novel but of the Seventh
>Doctor 'Target' books that I did read, they certainly did help
>expand on the televised episodes... especially Ben Aaronovitch's
>"Remembrance of the Daleks" novelisation.

Image if Resuurection of the Daleks never saw the day of light!

>
>When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels as a
>way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans shouldn't have
>needed to read a novel to understand the televised episodes. If you
>don't know what's going on from watching the episode on-screen then
>quite simply it's been badly produced.

Jon and Kate. I wonder how the are these days?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LbIcaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>> If you want incoherent, try snakedane or worse yet Midnight
>>>> or even worse yet Chibnall's Timeless Child.
>>>
>>> Without checking, Snakedance was that with the Kinda? Or the much
>>> later episode where the evil thing resurfaced from apparently being
>>> hidden in Teagan? (That last bit was the only thing that bothered
>>> me.)
>
>> Kinda was the first appearance of the Mara, the psychic snake
>> monster. Snakedance was its return and is possibly more famous for a
>> very effete turn by Martin Clunes than anything to do with its rather
>> tgin plot. And yes, the Mara was dormant in Tegan?s mind. Apparently.
>
>Ah, so it was the second episode I described.
>
>And yeah, totally out of the blue. :/
>

Now you got it!

>No idea who Martin Clunes is. What's "tgin"? (I guess it's a typo, but I
>can't figure out for what.)
>

IMDB

>>> Midnight, [...]
>>>
>>> I didn't like that episode, but didn't think it so very incoherent.
>>> Now the Ten(nant) episode I liked least was the one with Absorbalof.
>>> Hardly any Doctor, boring stupid people not paying attention, and
>>> ghastly ending.
>
>> The Absorbaloff was a child?s winning creation in an alien contest,
>> so RTD had to find a story in which it worked. I think the alien was
>> pretty poor and getting Peter Kay to play it didn?t help at all,
>> picking another winner would have been a better choice.
>
>Oh. I don't want to pick on any child's imagination. :)
>
>I don't know what exactly the child's creation was, so can't think how
>it could have been a better story.
>
>But what bugs me most is that there's hardly any Doctor in the episode.
>It's just slightly worse than Blink(*), which also had hardly any Doctor
>in it.
>
>(*) I think that was the episode name, first one with the weeping
>angels, focussing on some normal people.
>

Love and Monsters suck!

>Don't like the weeping angels themselves either.
>

Blink rocks!

>> I didn?t mind the ending, yes it was a bit adult compared to the rest
>> of the episode, but I?m sure it would have gone over the heads of
>> young children so no harm done.
>
>Not just that, but who'd think it's a satisfying end to live as a rock!?
>No eating, no breathing,... Never mind that there's no way to affect
>anything at all, can't even turn a page when reading, and no hope of
>recovery.
>

Please!

>> ?Doctor-Lite? is a way of filming two episodes at the same time and a
>> budget saving exercise (Midnight was shot alongside Turn Left, so we
>> get one episode essentially without Donna and another essentially
>> without the Doctor made in the same time scale. Sometimes it works,
>> sometimes it doesn?t.
>
>Oh, I didn't notice that there hardly was any Doctor in Turn Left. It
>was an interesting enough episode! (And still had Donna, not just some
>nonames.)
>

It was one of the best after the disappointing Midnight.

>>> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so it's
>>> just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>
>> No, it wasn?t. I might wish it was. But it wasn?t.
>
>I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)
>
>>> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>>> first Doctor.
>
>> Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in ?The Brain of
>> Morbius??
>
>Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think anything
>else.
>

Exactly!

Just 4 Doctors!

>> And what did the Doctor mean by saying that he had been, with Omega
>> and Rassilon, involved in developing the prototype Hand of Omega in
>> legendary history of the Time Lords? (Remembrance of the Daleks).
>
>Obviously something he remembered, and therefore can't have been pre-
>first Doctor.

Logical!

>
>> And when was the Doctor Merlin? (Battlefield).
>
>In the future, that wasn't filmed due to cancelling the show.
>

Boo on JPowell!

>> And when was the Doctor the Fugitive Doctor, as it is clearly in the
>> Doctor?s past in the sequences involving battling the Bad Guys in
>> Flux?
>
>They're mistaken. (I'll get round to rewatching that, before May surely,
>but don't have those episodes clear in my head - too much nonsense!)
>

Just think of the Timeless Child as not being part of Dcotor Who!

>>> (He'd know! And likes jabs at the Doctor.)
>
>> Where do you think that was confirmed? I didn?t see any such thing.
>> Indeed the Toymaker doubled down on the ?truth? of the Timeless
>> Children by referring to the Flux.
>
>I was sure he'd said the first game with the first Doctor.
>
>But all I got now is the script from the Giggle:
>"INTERCUT his CU with IMAGES from The Celestial Toymaker (1966). But now
> in COLOUR. The First Doctor & the First Toymaker; his robes, his smile,
> his power."
>
>Can't find 'Flux' in the script.
>

You do not want to!

>> Just as the aliens from beyond space in Wild Blue Yonder also
>> affirmed it, by telling the Doctor that he didn?t know who he was any
>> more.
>
>Not knowing who he was anymore could mean anything
>

Wild Blue Yonder was a pantomime!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1Lb7qaczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>> In article <GYyKVYDLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 16.02.24, doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <GYuKCOoLczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>
>>> [Ghost Light.... WHAT!?]
>>>>>>> Oh, totally missed that other reality bit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> MM for you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you don't mean one of a particular sweet?
>>>
>>>> MM is Mike McKeown.
>>>
>>> Names and I don't get on well, I'd be hard pressed listing all
>>> actors who played the Doctor, never mind companions or even anyone
>>> not seen on the show. I barely remember the in-show names of the
>>> companions.
>
>> Dave ?Yads?, ?Yellowbeard? Yadallee refuses to stop posting as ?the
>> Doctor? despite being just about the least Doctor-like poster on
>> Usenet.
>
>He just turns up as "doctor" here, not "the Doctor".
>
>Usenet might be shrinking, but it's still is big. I'm sure I could find
>some less Doctor-like posters. :P
>

LOL!

>> I am the one he usually refers to as ?MM?, posting as ?The Last
>> Doctor? in protest against the absurdity of Yads arrogating a name to
>> himself that is utterly unfitting.
>
>Oh, another feud here.
>

Always!

>> Others have done a similar thing, amongst them Aggie (whose initials
>> are AGA and used to post as ?Agamemnon?) who now posts as ?The True
>> Doctor? which is ironic as half of what he posts are lies of
>> Trump-like insanity and the other half reflects views that would be
>> anathema to the Doctor (the TV character, not Yads). But that?s just
>> my opinion ? make your own mind up on that one!
>
>I don't think I've seen their posts.
>
>Could be that they ended up in my killfile long ago when posting
>somewhere else. I know one not-seen but regularly mentioned name here
>sounded familiar, but no posts arrive. Checking revealed that he's in
>the killfile.
>

Who?

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <GZ1LbaOqczB@ATH>, Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>>
>>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>>
>>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>
>> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
>> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
>> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman
>> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.
>
>> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.
>
>I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
>just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
>especially on the balcony in summer.)
>
>I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
>media of Doctor Who, though.
>
>> John Cartmel was the new script editor. He famously had a ?master
>> plan? to make the Doctor more Machiavellian and mysterious, with
>> origins well before the Hartnell incarnation - and he was supposedly
>> grooming (in the not creepy sense of the term) Ace for admission to
>> the Time Lord Academy, hence the various ?tests? of her in this
>> season, in Ghost Light and The Curse of Fenric.
>
>Weird.
>
>> JN-T is John Nathan-Turner, the man who in my opinion ran Doctor Who
>> slowly onto the reefs of oblivion as producer since Tom Baker?s final
>> season. He it was who introduced Tom?s burgundy coat, and wanted
>> Colin Baker?s costume to be hideously flamboyant and the character to
>> become obnoxious. He was responsible for the loud electronic
>> background music, the over lit primary colours of everything, and for
>> choosing a diminutive obscure Vaudeville comedian with no acting
>> skills as the Seventh Doctor, as well as the masses of guest
>> appearances from comedians with varying degrees of success - from the
>> sublime Tony Selby as Sabalom Glitz to the ridiculous Beryl Reid in
>> Earthshock and the pointless Hale and Pace in Survival.
>
>Hm, I think I'll stick to not wanting to know anything about the real
>people behind the show. :)
>
>>> I liked the one where they'd dug out Brigadier Steward again. :)
>
>> Battlefield. But how did Arthurian knights cross realities to fight
>> here?
>
>Magic? ;P
>
>> And why?
>
>You could apply "Why?" to a lot of Doctor Who. :))))
>
>> Why was the Doctor Merlin (and when?)
>
>In the future he went back to do stuff he'd obviously done in the past,
>but it was never filmed.
>
>> And why was the sword fighting so shite?
>
>Was it? I hardly pay attention to such things. :)
>
>> There is a cinematic re-edit of Fenric that?s a bit more coherent - I
>> think it?s the version in the Tales of the TARDIS wrapper on iPlayer?
>
>I wouldn't know.
>

The Anti-JNT faction can really get annoying!

>--
>
>Mickmane
>

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi70gtl7rbzt00g@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>
>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> > Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>
>> >> That other episode you mention simply doesn't make sense, so
>> >> it's just the Master messing with the Doctor's mind.
>>
>> > No, it wasn't. I might wish it was. But it wasn't.
>>
>> I'll stick with it. Nothing else makes sense. :)
>
>I'm with Mike on this one. It would be nice if it was but it can't
>really be that way. It would mean ignoring a whole lot of other
>stuff.

Can logic apply?

>
>> >> And even Toymaker confirmed that our first Doctor was the actual
>> >> first Doctor.
>>
>> > Then who are the Doctors shown in the mind battle in The Brain
>> > of Morbius??
>>
>> Morbius' faces, of course. Don't know how anyone could think
>> anything else.
>
>Maybe because the man who Produced the show at that time said so!!!
>
>As far as the Executive Producer of the show was concerned at the
>time (Philip Hinchliffe) they were meant to be faces of The Doctor...
>
>This seems to be what Chris Chibnall wanted to expand on during his
>era with the Timeless Child, that the Doctor did have previous
>incarnations before William Hartnell. Philip Hinchliffe had the same
>idea forty years before!!!
>
>Now, I know a lot of it doesn't 'fit' or make a lot of sense, but
>these are the ideas various Producers of Doctor Who have had at
>various times. The current Executive Producer of Doctor Who, RTD,
>might think more like you and think it's all a load tosh, in which
>case we'll get an explanation further down the line... and he'll
>throw in his own tosh!

What a botch!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi70hml7shfk00h@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>Mickmane wrote:
>>
>> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story
>> manually just got too tedious, and I can do other things while
>> listening, especially on the balcony in summer.)
>>
>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
>> non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.
>
>
>https://www.bigfinish.com/
>

Nice place!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>>
>>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>>
>>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>
>> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
>> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
>> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman
>> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.
>
>> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.
>
> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
> just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
> especially on the balcony in summer.)
>
> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
> media of Doctor Who, though.

There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free, including Spare
Parts.

Audible carries a lot but there’s a subscription charge after a month.
Could listen to some during a free trial though.

Big Finish is the main production company- 25 years of output and going
strong - but not much is free from them. Downloads of the older stuff are
often pretty affordable though - Spare Parts is £2.99 for example, not bad
for a 2 hour 4-part serial…

And the usual piratical means are of course available …

--
“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi6ym2l5d18i007@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
> > seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
> > throw in, Bonnie Langford, Ken Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts
> > villain, spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a
> > pantomime Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However,
> > the scripts for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a
> > darker, more manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time
> > Lord". I don't think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that
> > role at the time and I look back on a lot of his televised
> > stories as an embarrassment.
>
> Well he beat out everyone in the auditions!

The S24 Blu-Ray Collection had the full audition tapes of the other
actors up for the part of the Seventh Doctor, with Janet Fielding
playing Mel Bush. From what I saw, Dermot Crowley was the better
actor, and he'd have made a fine Doctor.

Clearly JNT wanted the comedic acting style of Sylvester McCoy
though.

Andrew Cartmel's 'fresh' ideas of the Doctor were wasted on McCoy.

> He also came back in 1996!

Aye, I loved that. Especially the bit where he got shot!

The Doctor wrote:

> In article <xn0oi6zahl676ak00a@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
> >
> > When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels
> > as a way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans
> > shouldn't have needed to read a novel to understand the
> > televised episodes. If you don't know what's going on from
> > watching the episode on-screen then quite simply it's been badly
> > produced.
>
> Jon and Kate. I wonder how the are these days?

Kate was a good contributor here, she's still writing Doctor Who
stuff. She wrote the "Doctor Who: The Dead Star" audiobook for Big
Finish which was released last year. (Narrated by Michael Troughton)
Hubby was the clown... "oh but if you had read page 72 of the novel
you'd have seen that blah blah blah"...

It's a TV show numbnuts, you shouldn't need a book to understand a
TV show!!!

The Doctor wrote:

>
> The Anti-JNT faction can really get annoying!

They're nearly as bad as the anti-Chibnall faction!

The Last Doctor wrote:

> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
> >
> > I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
> > non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.
>
> There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free,
> including Spare Parts.

IIRC the first fifty 'Doctor Who Main Range' releases are on Spotify.

Which is a good place to start!

In article <uqrg7k$lcvd$1@dont-email.me>,
The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> On 17.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>>>> On 15.02.24, The Last Doctor <mike@xenocyte.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Oh who am I kidding? Cartmel and Pratt were too inexperienced to
>>>>> carve a coherent story out of their script in the allotted time and
>>>>> JN-T was as useful as a chocolate teapot in this department as
>>>>> usual, being too busy making sure the music was shit, turning up
>>>>> the colour palette to play school level and generally trying to
>>>>> lower the tone back to season 24 levels.
>>>>
>>>> Lol. Ghost-lighting the viewers!
>>>>
>>>> Don't know those names though, and Google didn't really help.
>>
>>> Marc Pratt was the writer, this was his first Doctor Who story (and
>>> the only one televised to date though he has become a prolific and
>>> excellent writer for Big Finish - including the very best Cyberman
>>> origin story to date, ?Spare Parts?, a Fifth Doctor adventure.
>>
>>> Well worth a listen even if you aren?t usually into radio plays.
>>
>> I like audioplays, and even plain audiobooks. (Reading a story manually
>> just got too tedious, and I can do other things while listening,
>> especially on the balcony in summer.)
>>
>> I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other non-TV
>> media of Doctor Who, though.
>
>There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free, including Spare
>Parts.
>
>Audible carries a lot but there’s a subscription charge after a month.
>Could listen to some during a free trial though.
>
>Big Finish is the main production company- 25 years of output and going
>strong - but not much is free from them. Downloads of the older stuff are
>often pretty affordable though - Spare Parts is £2.99 for example, not bad
>for a 2 hour 4-part serial…
>
>And the usual piratical means are of course available …
>

Some archives might have some audios.

>--
>“The timelines and … canon … are rupturing” - the Doctor

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi7gcclc5hwa003@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oi6ym2l5d18i007@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> >
>> > McCoy was a comedy actor before Doctor Who, so for me his casting
>> > seemed to be all about turning Doctor Who in to a comedy show...
>> > throw in, Bonnie Langford, Ken Dodd, a Liquorice all-sorts
>> > villain, spoons and "unlimited rice pudding" ... coupled with a
>> > pantomime Producer and yes, Sylvester McCoy made sense. However,
>> > the scripts for the Seventh Doctor were painting a picture of a
>> > darker, more manipulative Doctor who is "more than just a Time
>> > Lord". I don't think Sylvester McCoy had the gravitas for that
>> > role at the time and I look back on a lot of his televised
>> > stories as an embarrassment.
>>
>> Well he beat out everyone in the auditions!
>
>The S24 Blu-Ray Collection had the full audition tapes of the other
>actors up for the part of the Seventh Doctor, with Janet Fielding
>playing Mel Bush. From what I saw, Dermot Crowley was the better
>actor, and he'd have made a fine Doctor.
>
>Clearly JNT wanted the comedic acting style of Sylvester McCoy
>though.
>
>Andrew Cartmel's 'fresh' ideas of the Doctor were wasted on McCoy.
>

Then was Syl and not Dermot?

>> He also came back in 1996!
>
>Aye, I loved that. Especially the bit where he got shot!

You would Captain BlueBeard!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi7gjnlcfzhl004@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0oi6zahl676ak00a@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>> >
>> > When Jon Blum posted here he was always referencing the novels
>> > as a way of explaining the story, despite the fact fans
>> > shouldn't have needed to read a novel to understand the
>> > televised episodes. If you don't know what's going on from
>> > watching the episode on-screen then quite simply it's been badly
>> > produced.
>>
>> Jon and Kate. I wonder how the are these days?
>
>Kate was a good contributor here, she's still writing Doctor Who
>stuff. She wrote the "Doctor Who: The Dead Star" audiobook for Big
>Finish which was released last year. (Narrated by Michael Troughton)
>Hubby was the clown... "oh but if you had read page 72 of the novel
>you'd have seen that blah blah blah"...
>

Her and Jon.

>It's a TV show numbnuts, you shouldn't need a book to understand a
>TV show!!!

Who are you quoting?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi7gurlcw358007@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Doctor wrote:
>
>>
>> The Anti-JNT faction can really get annoying!
>
>They're nearly as bad as the anti-Chibnall faction!

on Air just after Trial of a Timelord!

The anti-Chibnallers have more of apoint than the anti-JNTers!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

In article <xn0oi7hclldlvz5009@news.eternal-september.org>,
Blueshirt <blueshirt@indigo.news> wrote:
>The Last Doctor wrote:
>
>> Mickmane <ATH@kruemel.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I wouldn't know where to start looking for them and any other
>> > non-TV media of Doctor Who, though.
>>
>> There’s a fair few usually available on Spotify for free,
>> including Spare Parts.
>
>IIRC the first fifty 'Doctor Who Main Range' releases are on Spotify.
>
>Which is a good place to start!

Thank you!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
The ignorant won't rest until everyone is as dumb as they are. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com