For classical music, South Korea
has replaced Russia as the main
source of classical musical talent.

Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
I will keep out of the debate and
act as a moderator and referee.

Submit your essays by midnight
Monday, December 7th.

dk

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> For classical music, South Korea
> has replaced Russia as the main
> source of classical musical talent.
>
> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
> I will keep out of the debate and
> act as a moderator and referee.
>
> Submit your essays by midnight
> Monday, December 7th.
>
> dk

The Russians are in the Davis Cup final.

Maybe tennis and CM are counter-cyclical.

Please stop this ethnic stereotyping.

Listen with your ears, instead of your eyes.

Particularly because in some case it looks too much like horndogging on young Asian women.

That's more than distasteful.

On 12/5/2021 4:00 AM, Herman wrote:
> Please stop this ethnic stereotyping.
>
> Listen with your ears, instead of your eyes.
>

I don't know what we should call an interest in where musicians are coming from, but it isn't "ethnic stereotyping."

On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> For classical music, South Korea
> has replaced Russia as the main
> source of classical musical talent.
>
There has always been noteworthy talent coming from everywhere. To participate in the debate implies accepting the above premise, which is highly myopic. My view on Russian musicians is that some are remarkable, while quite a few others are too aggressive in their virtuoso personas, and that gets in the way of the music.

We all know over and over again that Russians and attractive Asian women are your thing. A better debate might be on the importance of broad mindedness and universality!

> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
> I will keep out of the debate and
> act as a moderator and referee.
>
> Submit your essays by midnight
> Monday, December 7th.
>
So that you can pat them on the head or tell them they need to clear their ears out with Drano?
Don’t you think it’s time to move on?

On 12/5/2021 10:12 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> For classical music, South Korea
>> has replaced Russia as the main
>> source of classical musical talent.
>>
> There has always been noteworthy talent coming from everywhere. To participate in the debate implies accepting the above premise, which is highly myopic. My view on Russian musicians is that some are remarkable, while quite a few others are too aggressive in their virtuoso personas, and that gets in the way of the music.
>
> We all know over and over again that Russians and attractive Asian women are your thing. A better debate might be on the importance of broad mindedness and universality!
>
>> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
>> I will keep out of the debate and
>> act as a moderator and referee.
>>
>> Submit your essays by midnight
>> Monday, December 7th.
>>
> So that you can pat them on the head or tell them they need to clear their ears out with Drano?
> Don’t you think it’s time to move on?
>

Dan's suggestion was purely mathematical. To tone it down a little, is it true that an increasing share of classical music talent is coming from Korea and less from Russia? If so, why and why should we care. Seems like a reasonable thing to discuss. Maybe the government of Korea is heavily subsidizing music schools and Russia is spending less on same and more on a Ukranian invasion force, or space stations or whatever. This is not a racial/ethnic/gender topic at all.

Op zaterdag 4 december 2021 om 23:25:57 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> For classical music, South Korea
> has replaced Russia as the main
> source of classical musical talent.
>
> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
> I will keep out of the debate and
> act as a moderator and referee.
>
> Submit your essays by midnight
> Monday, December 7th.
>
> dk

False. The Russians have not been leading since the 1970s. In the last quarter of the last century, the US and France did very well. Since then the Far East is the main source of first-class classical musicians.

Henk

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 8:02:43 AM UTC-8, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> Op zaterdag 4 december 2021 om 23:25:57 UTC+1 schreef dan....@gmail.com:
> > For classical music, South Korea
> > has replaced Russia as the main
> > source of classical musical talent.
> >
> > Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
> > I will keep out of the debate and
> > act as a moderator and referee.
> >
> > Submit your essays by midnight
> > Monday, December 7th.
> >
> > dk
> False. The Russians have not been leading since the 1970s. In the last quarter of the last century, the US and France did very well. Since then the Far East is the main source of first-class classical musicians.
>
> Henk

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical/c/x3WVlEZeCuo

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 4:40:01 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> For classical music, South Korea
> >> has replaced Russia as the main
> >> source of classical musical talent.
> >>

> >
> Dan's suggestion was purely mathematical. To tone it down a little, is it true that an increasing share of classical music talent is coming from Korea and less from Russia? If so, why and why should we care. Seems like a reasonable thing to discuss. Maybe the government of Korea is heavily subsidizing music schools and Russia is spending less on same and more on a Ukranian invasion force, or space stations or whatever. This is not a racial/ethnic/gender topic at all.

There is no math whatsoever in the above. Also, there is no way to prove either statement: that Russia was THE major source of musical talent. A listener can like a couple of USSR born or Latvian (which is not in Russia) soloists from the past. But some other listeners don't. End of story. Same with these Asian chicks DK tends to push (including some who are barely into their teens, very unpleasant).

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 07:12:19 -0800 (PST), JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> For classical music, South Korea
>> has replaced Russia as the main
>> source of classical musical talent.
>>
>There has always been noteworthy talent coming from everywhere. To participate in the debate implies accepting the above premise, which is highly myopic. My view on Russian musicians is that some are remarkable, while quite a few others are too aggressive in their virtuoso personas, and that gets in the way of the music.
>
>We all know over and over again that Russians and attractive Asian women are your thing. A better debate might be on the importance of broad mindedness and universality!
>
>> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
>> I will keep out of the debate and
>> act as a moderator and referee.
>>
>> Submit your essays by midnight
>> Monday, December 7th.
>>
>So that you can pat them on the head or tell them they need to clear their ears out with Drano?
>Don’t you think it’s time to move on?

Leaving Russia out of it, is South Korea really that much ahead of
China and Japan in producing important performers of classical music?

On 12/5/2021 12:33 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 4:40:01 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>
>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> For classical music, South Korea
>>>> has replaced Russia as the main
>>>> source of classical musical talent.
>>>>
>
>>>
>> Dan's suggestion was purely mathematical. To tone it down a little, is it true that an increasing share of classical music talent is coming from Korea and less from Russia? If so, why and why should we care. Seems like a reasonable thing to discuss. Maybe the government of Korea is heavily subsidizing music schools and Russia is spending less on same and more on a Ukranian invasion force, or space stations or whatever. This is not a racial/ethnic/gender topic at all.
>
> There is no math whatsoever in the above. Also, there is no way to prove either statement: that Russia was THE major source of musical talent. A listener can like a couple of USSR born or Latvian (which is not in Russia) soloists from the past. But some other listeners don't. End of story. Same with these Asian chicks DK tends to push (including some who are barely into their teens, very unpleasant).
>

It is a mathematical question. Like all analyses you have to agree about what is being counted. Suppose we counted up all artists with recording contracts from 1970 (or 1960 or whatever) onward by country of origin. Or album sales or concert proceeds. Or use country of training instead of country of birth. The results would differ, but would be similar. It would take some work, but the effort would, in principle, answer the question. It would not be the most complex analysis ever undertaken. It doesn't matter if you or I or Dan personally prefer Asian chicks or not.

By the way, YOU seem to have something against female Asian artists.

On 12/5/2021 12:35 PM, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 07:12:19 -0800 (PST), JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 5:25:57 PM UTC-5, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>> For classical music, South Korea
>>> has replaced Russia as the main
>>> source of classical musical talent.
>>>
>> There has always been noteworthy talent coming from everywhere. To participate in the debate implies accepting the above premise, which is highly myopic. My view on Russian musicians is that some are remarkable, while quite a few others are too aggressive in their virtuoso personas, and that gets in the way of the music.
>>
>> We all know over and over again that Russians and attractive Asian women are your thing. A better debate might be on the importance of broad mindedness and universality!
>>
>>> Debate true/false, pro/con, etc...
>>> I will keep out of the debate and
>>> act as a moderator and referee.
>>>
>>> Submit your essays by midnight
>>> Monday, December 7th.
>>>
>> So that you can pat them on the head or tell them they need to clear their ears out with Drano?
>> Don’t you think it’s time to move on?
>
> Leaving Russia out of it, is South Korea really that much ahead of
> China and Japan in producing important performers of classical music?
>

When considering China, you always have to adjust all the statistics by population. China has the second largest economy in the world. It is 3/4 that of the U.S. Using per capita GDP (adjusted for purchasing power parity) China ranks around 80th.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>
> By the way, YOU seem to have something against female Asian artists.

Not that I am aware of. I do get bugged by the creepiness of comments about youngish female Asian musicians. Oh, they're so small, so vulnerable, they cannot reach the piano pedals. It all feeds into that narrative of the helpless, shy, vulnerable Asian woman who would be best off just serving tea and pleasing her husband. Invariably these comments come from men.

During the recent Chopin Competition (where I was a fan of a Japanese competitress) there was a lot of this stuff in the livestream comment sidebar. Admittedly, only nuts seem to write in livestream sidebars ("What time is it in your country?" is a FAQ). Of course people here don't write such silly stuff, but DK's penchant for young longhaired Asian does creep me out, I'm sorry. Which doesn't mean I think he should stop. I am not required to read it.

I have been listening to Hindemith's viola sonatas by Nobuko Imai who also happens to be Japanese and there's a whole cohort of mixed women violinists, mixed Japanese and German / Austrian in many cases, just like one of my best friends (though she is not a violinist but and art historian).

On 12/5/2021 2:37 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>
>>
>> By the way, YOU seem to have something against female Asian artists.
>
> Not that I am aware of. I do get bugged by the creepiness of comments about youngish female Asian musicians. Oh, they're so small, so vulnerable, they cannot reach the piano pedals. It all feeds into that narrative of the helpless, shy, vulnerable Asian woman who would be best off just serving tea and pleasing her husband. Invariably these comments come from men.
>

I've seen nothing of the sort here.

> During the recent Chopin Competition (where I was a fan of a Japanese competitress)

No need to feminize the noun.

there was a lot of this stuff in the livestream comment sidebar. Admittedly, only nuts seem to write in livestream sidebars ("What time is it in your country?" is a FAQ). Of course people here don't write such silly stuff, but DK's penchant for young longhaired Asian does creep me out, I'm sorry. Which doesn't mean I think he should stop. I am not required to read it.
>

I repeat. I've seen nothing of the sort here. It makes no sense to attribute racist, misogynist attitudes to people who don't evidence them.

> I have been listening to Hindemith's viola sonatas by Nobuko Imai who also happens to be Japanese and there's a whole cohort of mixed women violinists, mixed Japanese and German / Austrian in many cases, just like one of my best friends (though she is not a violinist but and art historian).
>

Some of your best friends are asian women? Hmmmm.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 8:55:49 PM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> >
> Some of your best friends are asian women? Hmmmm.

I have no idea how she self-describes. Maybe just a New York City person.

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-5, Ricardo Jimenez wrote:
>
> Leaving Russia out of it, is South Korea
> really that much ahead of China and
> Japan in producing important performers
> of classical music?

Per capita South Korea with about 50M
people appears to be slightly ahead of
Japan with about 80M. It is definitely
ahead of China which has 1.4B people.

What is phenomenal in South Korea is
the breadth and depth of their music
education system, and the quality of
the talent they groom. Seoul has more
music schools than any other city on
the planet. There are more S. Korean
classical music channels on YouTube
than in any other country, and they are
all very active with fresh content every
week.

Also the fact they are absolutely at
the top across the board -- piano,
violin, cello, voice, guitar, conducting.

Japan is also very good across the
board, with a slight bias towards
violin. China seems show a bit of
a bias towards piano. I am curious
about which cultural and economic
factors afect lead to these traits. It
seems counterintutive for piano to
be more popular in China than in
Japan or South Korea, considering
the cost of the instruments and the
fact family incomes are lower than
in the other two countries.

I would definitely like to understand
what is going on there. What do they
add to the water? Or is it the kimchi?

dk

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 2:55:49 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 2:37 PM, Herman wrote:
>
> > During the recent Chopin Competition (where I was a fan of a Japanese competitress)
>
> No need to feminize the noun.
>
> there was a lot of this stuff in the livestream comment sidebar.

Messages in livestream chat sidebars
are often auto-translated. Trust Google
to create new words and meanings out
of thin air.

dk

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 10:40:01 AM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Dan's suggestion was purely mathematical.

Thanks for noticing.

> To tone it down a little, is it true that an
> increasing share of classical music talent
> is coming from Korea and less from Russia?

First off, as incomes and standards of
living rose across the world since WWII,
and proportionately more so in countries
outside Europe and North America, and
travel and communications are so much
easier and cheaper, an increasing fraction
of performing artists come from outside
Europe and North America. This is pretty
obvious. During most of the 20th century,
Russia produced a large number of top
classical artists, out of proportion with
its population. The pendulum seems to
be swinging now more towards CKJ.

> If so, why and why should we care.

Well, I do not REALLY CARE in the same
way or to the same extent I care about
the wellbeing and happiness of cats. I
am merely trying to understand the
phenomenon, and to assess whether
it is as inexorable as global warming.

> Seems like a reasonable thing to discuss.
> Maybe the government of Korea is heavily
> subsidizing music schools and Russia is
> spending less on same and more on a
> Ukranian invasion force, or space
> stations or whatever.

South Korea invests heavily in education
in all fields and at all levels, from both the
government side and the private sector side.
That is beyond doubt. Less tangible is what
actually drives young CKJ people towards
classical music, while most of the world is
drowning in punk and metal. On the other
side of the equation, government financial
support of music schools and conservatories
appears to have shrunk considerably during
the 3 decades since the fall of the previous
regime. This and other factors pushed many
top musicians to move out of Russia or to
spend large fractions of their time teaching
in other countries.

Russia's population stands at about 145 M,
slightly more than Japan's 125 M, somewhat
less than KJ combined at 175 M. Subjectively,
the latter two seem to produce significantly
more classical artists nowadays than does
Russia. I wonder is it possible to find actual
numbers.

> This is not a racial/ethnic/gender topic at all.

Of course not, except for people who are
obsessed with finding ulterior motives and
racist subtexts in everything -- like Psycho
Herman.

dk

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 1:15:46 AM UTC-5, number_six wrote:
> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > For classical music, South Korea
> > has replaced Russia as the main
> > source of classical musical talent.
>
> The Russians are in the Davis Cup final.
>
> Maybe tennis and CM are counter-cyclical.

Tennis and CM are antithetical. Also
note the investment required to get
into tennis is a lot lower than to get
into classical music. One leg of a
Steinway costs more than the best
racket money can buy.

dk

On Wednesday, 15 December 2021 at 16:45:25 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 1:15:46 AM UTC-5, number_six wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-8, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > > For classical music, South Korea
> > > has replaced Russia as the main
> > > source of classical musical talent.
> >
> > The Russians are in the Davis Cup final.
> >
> > Maybe tennis and CM are counter-cyclical.
> Tennis and CM are antithetical. Also
> note the investment required to get
> into tennis is a lot lower than to get
> into classical music. One leg of a
> Steinway costs more than the best
> racket money can buy.
>
> dk

Tennis requires quite a bit of expensive tuition to become a professional at it. Almost half of the players in the WTA and ATP are from Eastern Europe, the Baltic countries and Russia. Asian countries, are less well represented. Czechia has 2 women in the world top ten, Krejcikova and Pliskova, and several others in the top 30. No mean feat for a smaller country of just 11 million. The Ukraine has a fair representation as well, as well as Russia. Also many players born in Russia represent Kazakhstan as the country specifically encourages talented players to emigrate using facilities and tuition, sponsorships and scholarships as bait. Putintseva is one such example, mentioned because she persistently wrecks her racket after a bad shot.

Onto music. One of the reasons for the predominance of Asian classical musicians is cultural and parental. Western classical music is widely admired in Asia, and many children are pushed at an early age into learning an instrument. Competition is fierce, and the element of status in a musical field is inherent, driven by enormous parental pressure. Maybe Japan is more violin orientated towards violin because of Shinichi Suzuki, and maybe because artistically the violin is considered a more beautiful representation of a musical instrument.

Lang Lang and Yuja Wang are obviously some of the reasons that China favours the piano, but again, parental pressure is a far greater driving force in all Asian countries, compared to countries elsewhere. To some extent young Asian musicians might be considered well trained 'robots' but this might be a generalised opinion not based on fact.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:54:45 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 December 2021 at 16:45:25 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 1:15:46 AM UTC-5, number_six wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-8, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > > > For classical music, South Korea
> > > > has replaced Russia as the main
> > > > source of classical musical talent.
> > >
> > > The Russians are in the Davis Cup final.
> > >
> > > Maybe tennis and CM are counter-cyclical.
>
> > Tennis and CM are antithetical. Also
> > note the investment required to get
> > into tennis is a lot lower than to get
> > into classical music. One leg of a
> > Steinway costs more than the best
> > racket money can buy.
>
> Tennis requires quite a bit of expensive
> tuition to become a professional at it.

So does tuition at Curtis and Juilliard.

> Almost half of the players in the WTA and
> ATP are from Eastern Europe, the Baltic
> countries and Russia.

I did notice.

> Asian countries, are less well represented.
> Czechia has 2 women in the world top ten,
> Krejcikova and Pliskova, and several others
> in the top 30. No mean feat for a smaller
> country of just 11 million.

Yes indeed. The Czechs as well as the Finns
and the Scandinavians have an obsession
with physical sports -- tennis, skiing, etc...

> The Ukraine has a fair representation as well,
> as well as Russia.

Watch out, you might get into trouble with one
or the other.

> Also many players born in Russia represent
> Kazakhstan as the country specifically encourages
> talented players to emigrate using facilities and tuition,
> sponsorships and scholarships as bait. Putintseva is
> one such example, mentioned because she persistently
> wrecks her racket after a bad shot.

I have not sympathy for tennis or tennis players.
Chasing and hitting balls is the epitome of time
wasting.

> Onto music. One of the reasons for the predominance
> of Asian classical musicians is cultural and parental.
> Western classical music is widely admired in Asia,
> and many children are pushed at an early age into
> learning an instrument.

Very Jewish.

> Competition is fierce, and the element of status in a
> musical field is inherent, driven by enormous parental
> pressure. Maybe Japan is more violin orientated towards
> violin because of Shinichi Suzuki, and maybe because
> artistically the violin is considered a more beautiful
> representation of a musical instrument.

This is an interesting thought. I was looking at a simpler
aspect: the relative number of superstar artists for each
instrument. Japan has certainly produced tons of good
pianists, yet somehow they don't reach the visibility and
the status of their violinists. The opposite appears to be
true for China. South Korea dominates both the violin and
the piano in top artists, especially when one considers it
it has the smallest population of the three.

> Lang Lang and Yuja Wang are obviously some of the
> reasons that China favours the piano, but again, parental
> pressure is a far greater driving force in all Asian countries,
> compared to countries elsewhere.

Maybe US and Western parents could learn a tning or two
from them.

> To some extent young Asian musicians might be considered
> well trained 'robots' but this might be a generalised opinion
> not based on fact.

It is a typical racist slur. Do HJ Lim, Lang van Bang, Soyung
Yoon, Mone Hattori, Yeol Eum Son or Kyu Hee Park sound
"robotic" to one's ears?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SysOy356Wc

dk

On 12/15/2021 5:54 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 15 December 2021 at 16:45:25 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 1:15:46 AM UTC-5, number_six wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 4, 2021 at 2:25:57 PM UTC-8, dan....gmail.com wrote:
>>>> For classical music, South Korea
>>>> has replaced Russia as the main
>>>> source of classical musical talent.
>>>
>>> The Russians are in the Davis Cup final.
>>>
>>> Maybe tennis and CM are counter-cyclical.
>> Tennis and CM are antithetical. Also
>> note the investment required to get
>> into tennis is a lot lower than to get
>> into classical music. One leg of a
>> Steinway costs more than the best
>> racket money can buy.
>>
>> dk
>
> Tennis requires quite a bit of expensive tuition to become a professional at it. Almost half of the players in the WTA and ATP are from Eastern Europe, the Baltic countries and Russia. Asian countries, are less well represented. Czechia has 2 women in the world top ten, Krejcikova and Pliskova, and several others in the top 30. No mean feat for a smaller country of just 11 million. The Ukraine has a fair representation as well, as well as Russia. Also many players born in Russia represent Kazakhstan as the country specifically encourages talented players to emigrate using facilities and tuition, sponsorships and scholarships as bait. Putintseva is one such example, mentioned because she persistently wrecks her racket after a bad shot.

>
> Onto music. One of the reasons for the predominance of Asian classical musicians is cultural and parental. Western classical music is widely admired in Asia, and many children are pushed at an early age into learning an instrument. Competition is fierce, and the element of status in a musical field is inherent, driven by enormous parental pressure. Maybe Japan is more violin orientated towards violin because of Shinichi Suzuki, and maybe because artistically the violin is considered a more beautiful representation of a musical instrument.
>
> Lang Lang and Yuja Wang are obviously some of the reasons that China favours the piano,

Or or they by-products of a Chinese interest in the piano that pre-existed them? Fou Ts'ong comes to mind. Causality often flows in both directions.

> but again, parental pressure is a far greater driving force in all Asian countries, compared to countries elsewhere.

Yes, we've all heard this stereotype, about Asian-American parents as well. Assuming there is truth to it, how do you account for it? Referring to another stereotype, is is because Asians are more averse to losing face than are others? The very act of citing a stereotype is creeping me out.

To some extent young Asian musicians might be considered well trained 'robots' but this might be a generalised opinion not based on fact.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

I wonder to what extent certain places specializing in certain things is random. One superstar arising in a place that never had one, can spur a generation of followers, admirers, and a tradition.

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 7:04:34 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> I wonder to what extent certain places
> specializing in certain things is random.
> One superstar arising in a place that never
> had one, can spur a generation of followers,
> admirers, and a tradition.

Statistically unlikely "Black Swan" events are
quite fascinating. They often trigger an urge
to look for hidden factors that caused them.

The most famous of these is arguably the
Fasori Gimnázium (Lutheran High School)
in Budapest that produced half a dozen or
so Nobel prize winners and top scientists
during a few short years in the beginning
of the 20th century:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium

This was thought of as a mystery, and
many folks wandered if the water there
was irradiated or laced with Pálinka.

One day someone noticed all the
scientists who studied there had
one math teacher: László Rátz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz

Mystery solved.

dk

On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 13:17:44 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 7:04:34 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> >

> Statistically unlikely "Black Swan" events are
> quite fascinating. They often trigger an urge
> to look for hidden factors that caused them.
>
> The most famous of these is arguably the
> Fasori Gimnázium (Lutheran High School)
> in Budapest that produced half a dozen or
> so Nobel prize winners and top scientists
> during a few short years in the beginning
> of the 20th century:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasori_Gimn%C3%A1zium
>
> This was thought of as a mystery, and
> many folks wandered if the water there
> was irradiated or laced with Pálinka.
>
> One day someone noticed all the
> scientists who studied there had
> one math teacher: László Rátz
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_R%C3%A1tz
>
> Mystery solved.
>
> dk

Certainly math is very important in branches such as physics and other close sciences.

As for my remark regarding 'robotic' in my previous post, I can assure you that I might suspect (maybe wrongly) anyone who is force fed into a proficiency or skill, a higher chance of not possessing some inherent quality that defines a great artist from those that will always remain in the second division.

In fact one aspect that distinguishes jazz from classical, is that jazz at the highest level, is solely dependent upon the individual artist itself, whereas classical not so much, and where the actual music plays a much more leading role. In short I buy Charlie Parker because of Parker, whereas I buy Shosty because I need more good Shosty.

Ray Hall, Taree