On 12/15/21 9:47 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 13:17:44 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:

>
> Certainly math is very important in branches such as physics and other close sciences.
>
> As for my remark regarding 'robotic' in my previous post, I can assure you that I might suspect (maybe wrongly) anyone who is force fed into a proficiency or skill, a higher chance of not possessing some inherent quality that defines a great artist from those that will always remain in the second division.

In any proficiency or skill that ends up in a "world class" reputation,
almost every major competitor started at a very early age, with six
years old usually being too late. (including tennis nowadays! The
courts I play on are full of five year olds hitting devastating forehands!)

Of course, starting at five doesn't guarantee anything. There must be
some "inherent quality" that leads other people to believe in you and
your talent.

-Owen

On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:16:24 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:54:45 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > To some extent young Asian musicians might be considered
> > well trained 'robots' but this might be a generalised opinion
> > not based on fact.
>
> It is a typical racist slur. Do HJ Lim, Lang van Bang, Soyung
> Yoon, Mone Hattori, Yeol Eum Son or Kyu Hee Park sound
> "robotic" to one's ears?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SysOy356Wc
>

Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo

Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)

dk

On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 21:36:11 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 6:16:24 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 15, 2021 at 5:54:45 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > To some extent young Asian musicians might be considered
> > > well trained 'robots' but this might be a generalised opinion
> > > not based on fact.
> >
> > It is a typical racist slur. Do HJ Lim, Lang van Bang, Soyung
> > Yoon, Mone Hattori, Yeol Eum Son or Kyu Hee Park sound
> > "robotic" to one's ears?
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SysOy356Wc
> >
> Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo
>
> Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
> She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
> everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
> back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
> built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)
>
> dk

Far from robotic. Quite passionate in fact. Almost Spanish.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 21:36:11 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo
> > Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
> > She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
> > everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
> > back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
> > built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)
> robotic. Quite passionate in fact. Almost Spanish.

You just ran over a smiley.

dk

On 12/16/2021 6:32 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 21:36:11 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
>>> Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo
>>> Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
>>> She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
>>> everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
>>> back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
>>> built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)
>> robotic. Quite passionate in fact. Almost Spanish.
>
> You just ran over a smiley.
>
> dk

It's odd that there is no universally accepted / widely used emoji for sarcasm. Some have used an upside down smiley to indicate sarcasm.
As for text indicators :S has been used. I propose we use :S to indicate sarcasm. I've noticed that Thunderbird (which I use) converts :-) (the text symbol colon dash right paren) into a graphic smiley. I don't know if left paren, dash, colon would be considered an upside down smiley or if Thunderbird would so render it. I'll try:

(-:

On 12/16/21 11:56 AM, Frank Berger wrote:

> It's odd that there is no universally accepted / widely used emoji for
> sarcasm.  Some have used an upside down smiley to indicate sarcasm.
> As for text indicators :S  has been used.  I propose we use :S to
> indicate sarcasm.  I've noticed that Thunderbird (which I use) converts
> :-) (the text symbol colon dash right paren) into a graphic smiley. I
> don't know if left paren, dash, colon would be considered an upside down
> smiley or if Thunderbird would so render it.  I'll try:
>
> (-:

Shows as text in Thunderbird. :-) winky smiley

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 12:57:05 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 12/16/2021 6:32 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > You just ran over a smiley.
>
> It's odd that there is no universally accepted /
> widely used emoji for sarcasm.

There is no universally accepted sarcasm.

dk

On 12/16/2021 3:23 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 12:57:05 PM UTC-5, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 12/16/2021 6:32 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> You just ran over a smiley.
>>
>> It's odd that there is no universally accepted /
>> widely used emoji for sarcasm.
>
> There is no universally accepted sarcasm.
>
> dk

Nor for humor or beauty or anything else.

Nevertheless, there could be widely accepted symbol for it.

Since you didn't use an emoji here, I don't know what you mean.

On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 22:32:47 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 21:36:11 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > > Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo
> > > Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
> > > She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
> > > everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
> > > back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
> > > built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)
> > robotic. Quite passionate in fact. Almost Spanish.
> You just ran over a smiley.
>
> dk

I saw the smiley, but decided to comment anyway as I thought the guitarist in question deserved my comment. There are so many excellent young classical guitarist players these days, a beautiful instrument that however one never normally associates with Asia.

I am waiting for the next Japanese Paco de Lucia, as flamenco is enormously popular in Japan. There are more flamenco schools in Tokyo than in all of Spain, as I have read.

Ray Hall, Taree

On 12/16/2021 12:56 PM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 12/16/2021 6:32 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 6:21:05 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 16 December 2021 at 21:36:11 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Yet another perfect example of robotic playing:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAL4P3X7uE4
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxF3nAcGwUo
>>>> Haeun Jang is another young rising star guitarist.
>>>> She is a bit more eclectic than the others, playing
>>>> everything from Bach to rock, to flamenco, and
>>>> back to Spanish and Italian classics. Precision
>>>> built by robots in a Samsung plant! ;-)
>>>   robotic. Quite passionate in fact. Almost Spanish.
>>
>> You just ran over a smiley.
>>
>> dk
>
>
> It's odd that there is no universally accepted / widely used emoji for sarcasm.  Some have used an upside down smiley to indicate sarcasm.
> As for text indicators :S  has been used.  I propose we use :S to indicate sarcasm.  I've noticed that Thunderbird (which I use) converts :-) (the text symbol colon dash right paren) into a graphic smiley. I don't know if left paren, dash, colon would be considered an upside down smiley or if Thunderbird would so render it.  I'll try:
>
> (-:

Turns out Thunderbird has an emoji add-in that allows use of emojis, including the upside-down smiley that is supposed to indicate sarcasm. If the reader is using google groups (don't know about other real newsreaders), the graphics will be filtered our. So if we all used Thunderbird with the add-in we could be unambiguously sarcastic all we want.

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 4:58:24 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I saw the smiley, but decided to comment
> anyway as I thought the guitarist in question
> deserved my comment.

Who is/was "the guitarist in question"?

> There are so many excellent young classical
> guitarist players these days, a beautiful

Many of them are Asian.

> instrument that however one never
> normally associates with Asia.
"associates with" is pure prejudice.

> I am waiting for the next Japanese Paco de
> Lucia, as flamenco is enormously popular in
> Japan. There are more flamenco schools in
> Tokyo than in all of Spain, as I have read.

If one is looking for more or less traditional
flamenco, Jose Tanaka is the man. If one is
looking for flamenco fusion with Japanese
instruments, Yukihiro Atsumi is the man.

dk

On Friday, 17 December 2021 at 11:04:42 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 4:58:24 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I saw the smiley, but decided to comment
> > anyway as I thought the guitarist in question
> > deserved my comment.
> Who is/was "the guitarist in question"?

Haeun Jang, as from your links. Thx.

> > There are so many excellent young classical
> > guitarist players these days, a beautiful
> Many of them are Asian.
> > instrument that however one never
> > normally associates with Asia.
> "associates with" is pure prejudice.

???
Well, if I say that I don't normally associate tumbleweed blowing down most sidestreets in Helsinki then I am prejudiced against the Finns? Don't be silly.
Actually, I always associate the Shamisen with Japan, and China has all sorts of stringed instruments unfamiliar to Western ears. India has the Sitar of course.

> > I am waiting for the next Japanese Paco de
> > Lucia, as flamenco is enormously popular in
> > Japan. There are more flamenco schools in
> > Tokyo than in all of Spain, as I have read.
> If one is looking for more or less traditional
> flamenco, Jose Tanaka is the man. If one is
> looking for flamenco fusion with Japanese
> instruments, Yukihiro Atsumi is the man.

I'll look them up.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 8:06:12 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 17 December 2021 at 11:04:42 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 4:58:24 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I saw the smiley, but decided to comment

No, you ran over it! You killed a smiley! ;-)

> > > anyway as I thought the guitarist in question
> > > deserved my comment.
> > Who is/was "the guitarist in question"?
> Haeun Jang, as from your links. Thx.
> > > There are so many excellent young classical
> > > guitarist players these days, a beautiful
> > Many of them are Asian.
> > > instrument that however one never
> > > normally associates with Asia.
> > "associates with" is pure prejudice.
> ???
> Well, if I say that I don't normally associate
> tumbleweed blowing down most sidestreets
> in Helsinki then I am prejudiced against the
> Finns? Don't be silly.

You are changing the subject. We are talking
about people and cultures, not about natural
phenomena.

> Actually, I always associate the Shamisen
> with Japan, and China has all sorts of stringed
> instruments unfamiliar to Western ears. India
> has the Sitar of course.

Western ears are not particularly open to the
music of other civilizations, or even curious
about them.

> > > I am waiting for the next Japanese Paco de
> > > Lucia, as flamenco is enormously popular in
> > > Japan. There are more flamenco schools in
> > > Tokyo than in all of Spain, as I have read.
> >
> > If one is looking for more or less traditional
> > flamenco, Jose Tanaka is the man. If one is
> > looking for flamenco fusion with Japanese
> > instruments, Yukihiro Atsumi is the man.
>
> I'll look them up.

Deal!

dk

On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 8:06:12 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 17 December 2021 at 11:04:42 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 at 4:58:24 PM UTC-5, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I saw the smiley, but decided to comment
> > > anyway as I thought the guitarist in
> > > question deserved my comment.
> >
> > Who is/was "the guitarist in question"?
>
> Haeun Jang, as from your links. Thx.

If you believe her playing is "robotic"
we have a major problem in our midst.

She plays at Paco de Lucia level (age
adjusted). Her flamenco style is every
bit as genuine as anyone's. Amazing!

dk