On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:59:04 PM UTC-8, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <sor4nn$8vp$1...@hope.eyrie.org>,
> Todd M. McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:
> >In article <76432ba8-9721-4b41...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Do you have a dog in the fight here about Echtzeitmusik?
> Re-answer: I'm responding to an assertion that classical music is
> incompatible with improvisation. That came to involve some further
> statements -- not by me -- about what jazz is, and I felt similarly
> compelled to note that such a summary didn't cover all of what jazz
> is *now*. The "now" being the hinge for my involvement in the
> topic.

Dave Hurwitz was ecstatic over Kapustin's 4th Piano Concerto. I heard Mal Waldron once about 25 years ago. Next to classical music, jazz is my
second love though I hardly listen to it. The numerous Bruckner cycles have been occupying my time these days. After hearing the 5th all I could hear in my head was Bruckner. I like DH but he uses the horse sound when he says his name too often.

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 3:59:04 PM UTC-8, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <sor4nn$8vp$1...@hope.eyrie.org>,
> Todd M. McComb <mcc...@medieval.org> wrote:
> >In article <76432ba8-9721-4b41...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>Do you have a dog in the fight here about Echtzeitmusik?
> Re-answer: I'm responding to an assertion that classical music is
> incompatible with improvisation. That came to involve some further
> statements -- not by me -- about what jazz is, and I felt similarly
> compelled to note that such a summary didn't cover all of what jazz
> is *now*. The "now" being the hinge for my involvement in the
> topic.

Is jazz one of those things that is easy to recognize/identify, but difficult to describe/define?

In article <0ca2cfe6-bf06-4382-886d-fb831913735bn@googlegroups.com>,
gggg gggg <ggggg9271@gmail.com> wrote:
>Is jazz one of those things that is easy to recognize/identify,
>but difficult to describe/define?

I would not personally apply that notion here.

In article <sor160$6v2$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>... Andy's remarks on the jazz drumset. Well, Charlie Parker
>invented that & established it with bebop.

You're right that "invented" is wrong there... not sure why I "and"'d
my own correction... which is then the typical historical verb (&
still disputable).

Anyway, bebop is an ostinato form, something made that much more
clear -- perhaps -- in various post-bop forms that entail treating
the (in bebop, bass...) ostinato differently. To my mind the
greatest "ostinato composer" of all time? Pierre de la Rue.

In article <sosfrh$721$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>To my mind the greatest "ostinato composer" of all time?

A century+ after La Rue (well, over an interval...), a promiment
ostinato form was e.g. the passcaglia.... Further in the La Rue
generation, the big Josquin (ObAnniversary year) ostinato mass is
Hercules Dux Ferariae, a tour-de-force. This is "bebop."

In article <som2oh$48o$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>Also new (to me) today -- "classical music":
>https://anothertimbre.bandcamp.com/album/songs-for-a-shed

So I was pondering the "incipient violence" of Ryoko Akama, I guess,
that being a trope paralleling this here, and actually, I do think
that's a (cover) photo from Manzanar. Nonetheless, one's "exposure"
would be more toward the realm of, um, emotional suspension....

In article <solp2i$t7v$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>https://magdamayas.bandcamp.com/album/objects-of-interest

Mayas (the performer, pianist...) describes the scores for this
album as "fragile" (meaning, physically).

Op donderdag 9 december 2021 om 00:35:15 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
> On Wednesday, 8 December 2021 at 23:17:08 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> I'd expected Nic Hodges to be a fan of free jazz. Cannonball Adderley's quintet in San Francisco is easy to listen to. The sextet, ten years later, is a different story. Did it make any difference for Nic?
> > > Henk
> I can't remember all the tracks I sent to Nic, but one was Glass Bead Games by Clifford Jordan, which he liked a lot. Can't remember which Cannonball track, but to me he had the same swinging style right through, both him and Nat, and they always had really cooking rhythm sections. Joe Zawinul introduced the electric piano, but the swing was always there. Nic liked jazz for being jazz, not some kind of crossover with contemporary music.

Jordan's album Glass Bead Games is a mixed bag (imo). The track of the same name, on the other hand, is great.

BTW, do you know if Nic is still with the Stuttgart Philharmoniker?

Henk

mswd...@gmail.com avait énoncé :
> Well written! Did I miss you recommending favorite Waldron?

https://www.amazon.fr/Recordings-1957-1961-Mal-Waldron/dp/B019D3J38O/ref=sr_1_7?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=waldron&qid=1639045868&s=music&sr=1-7

https://www.amazon.fr/Recordings-1956-1957-Mal-Waldron/dp/B019D3J3HA/ref=sr_1_8?__mk_fr_FR=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&keywords=waldron&qid=1639045868&s=music&sr=1-8

On Thursday, 9 December 2021 at 09:53:07 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> BTW, do you know if Nic is still with the Stuttgart Philharmoniker?
> > Henk

Nic moved to Stuttgart to take up a professor's job at the conservatoire, and he found Germany pretty central for gigging as well. I haven't heard from him recently but as far as I know he's still married and settled with a family. Fascinating guy, and a very good pianist.

Op donderdag 9 december 2021 om 15:11:29 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
> On Thursday, 9 December 2021 at 09:53:07 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> > BTW, do you know if Nic is still with the Stuttgart Philharmoniker?
> > > Henk
> Nic moved to Stuttgart to take up a professor's job at the conservatoire, and he found Germany pretty central for gigging as well. I haven't heard from him recently but as far as I know he's still married and settled with a family. Fascinating guy, and a very good pianist.

Thanks! Good to hear all is well.

Henk

Todd M. McComb a exposé le 08/12/2021 :
> Charlie Parker invented that & established it with bebop

As far as the drums are concerned, the real revolutionary is *Kenny
CLARKE*...

Fred Moten's classic book _In the break_ is, for those inclined to
reading, a discussion of African American aesthetics going beyond
the technical specificity of any particular style/era of jazz (e.g.
the development of bebop, which seems definitional for Andy, but a
little "too much" for Henk...). Moten is a difficult writer, but
I've gotten a lot from him, across a variety of topics. Jump into
_Black and Blur_ if you're so inclined, but it's a challenging
read....

The only other thing I want to note here is that jazz started as a
sort of deviation from white/Western music (which was the only
allowable public music!). It was "in the break" as Moten says, a
twist (including, yes, syncopation), first a "wrong note" then a
little solo within the same song... hence "standards" & then expanding
to more (from the interstices, as I put it sometimes...). In that
specific sense, jazz was "an extension" of white/Western music.