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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

SubjectAuthor
* More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
+- Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophoneraymond....@gmail.com
+* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneHT
|`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
| `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|  `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
+* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneChris J.
|`- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
+* Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophonelenny2005
|`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
| `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophonePeter
|  `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneLawrence Kart
|   `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneLawrence Kart
|    +* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
|    |`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    | +- Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophonemswd...@gmail.com
|    | `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneLawrence Kart
|    |  +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneLawrence Kart
|    |  `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneLawrence Kart
|    |   +* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
|    |   |`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   | +* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
|    |   | |`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   | | `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   | `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |  `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |   +* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   |`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |   | +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   | `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   |  `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |   |   +- Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophonenumber_six
|    |   |   |   +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   |   +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   |   `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |   `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
|    |   |    `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |     `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |      `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |       +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   |       +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    |   |       `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|    |   `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|    `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneNéstor Castiglione
+* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneNéstor Castiglione
|+* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
||`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneNéstor Castiglione
|| `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
||  `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
|+- Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophoneraymond....@gmail.com
|`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
| `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
|  `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke
`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
 `* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
  +- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
  +* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneDan Koren
  |`* Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
  | `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneFrank Berger
  `- Re: More British Rubbish from The GramophoneAndrew Clarke

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More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 09:30 UTC

Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.

1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 09:49 UTC

On Sunday, 13 February 2022 at 20:30:49 UTC+11, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
>
> 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

Apart from Weinberg and Rameau, and only barely, I don't see anything I'd break into a sweat for.

Ray Hall, Taree

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 11:05 UTC

Op zondag 13 februari 2022 om 10:30:49 UTC+1 schreef andrewc...@gmail.com:
> Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
>
> 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

3/10 are British performers.

Henk

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
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 by: Chris J. - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 13:22 UTC

On 13 Feb 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:

> Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's
> current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan
> Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British
> orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is
> not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.

A little cultural brexit jingoism? ;-)
> 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des
> Nations / Jordi Savall

Nothing English or British about these recordings.
Any opinions on them and Vol. 1 of the series?

Chris

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
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 by: lenny2005 - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 13:31 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:30:49 AM UTC, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
>
> 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

The British orchestras and conductors on this list are, in fact, so ludicrously inept that they appear not to have turned up to the recording sessions and had their names removed from the finished product.

Agree about the British bias of The Gramophone but really...

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: castigli...@gmail.com (Néstor Castiglione)
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 by: Néstor Castiglione - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:24 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 1:30:49 AM UTC-8, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
>
> 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
>
> Andrew Clarke
> Canberra

All joshing aside, I wonder who the "typical" Gramophone reader is. Do they listen to things like the above? Do they really abhor 20th century music that deeply?

Weinberg hardly counts as an exemplar of that apparently still much loathed aforementioned musical period. At first I thought Weinberg to be intensely derivative of Shostakovich—the former's music seems to evince no other stylistic model—but later discovered that he actually anticipated, sometimes by decades, a lot of ideas the latter would employ in his late works. Obviously Shostakovich sincerely enjoyed his music and held it in high regard. (Then again, he tended to reserve his highest praise for young composers who didn't stray very far from his stylistic orbit.) Even so, Weinberg sometimes strikes me as an artist I'm compelled to like for reasons other than the intrinsic quality of his music. I've listened to loads of his music since first encountering it in my teens back in the 1990s, but still can't shake off the impression that, for all the man's personal decency in the face of the travails he endured, his music is decidedly third-rate. Tikhon Khrennikov was by all accounts a reprehensible careerist individual, but his music is actually quite enjoyable; better than Weinberg's, I must admit.

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:45 UTC

Here is another prime example of
Gramophone retarded imbecility:

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/grieg-s-piano-concerto-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings

Jeremy Nicholas' just published
review of Grieg Piano Concerto
recordings that manages to say
nothing meaningful about the
work or its performances.

dk

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 20:49 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:22:34 AM UTC-5, Chris J. wrote:
> On 13 Feb 2022 Andrew Clarke wrote:
>
> A little cultural brexit jingoism? ;-)
> > 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des
> > Nations / Jordi Savall
>
> Nothing English or British about these recordings.
> Any opinions on them and Vol. 1 of the series?

These recordings were obviously made
just to please the Gramophone, which
makes them British! ;-)

dk

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:10 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:45:30 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> Here is another prime example of
> Gramophone retarded imbecility:
>
> https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/grieg-s-piano-concerto-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings
>
> Jeremy Nicholas' just published
> review of Grieg Piano Concerto
> recordings that manages to say
> nothing meaningful about the
> work or its performances.
>

A perfect example of how not to
review recordings. Lots of history
without any analysis of the music.

Egregious ommissions of many of
the finest performances available
online. The world is long past the
time when the only "recordings"
were round thin slices of plastic.

Little understanding of pianistic
craft. Wallowing in meaningless
prose such as

"Despite some untidy moments, one
feels that this is the spirit in which
Grieg envisaged the work to be heard"

How the fuck would one know
what Grieg heard in his head ?!?

"noble, sumptuous rendering of
the solo part"

As if playing the concerto were
som kind of formal ceremony ?!?

And so on.

dk

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:16 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
>
> Tikhon Khrennikov was by all accounts
> a reprehensible careerist individual,

Judging from what evidence ?!?

> but his music is actually quite enjoyable;

Comrade Khrennikov was an
excellent composer and a
loyal party member who
served his country with
great distinction, even
though he never won
a Grammy! ;-)

dk

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:30 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 4:10:06 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:45:30 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > Here is another prime example of
> > Gramophone retarded imbecility:
> >
> > https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/grieg-s-piano-concerto-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings
> >
> > Jeremy Nicholas' just published
> > review of Grieg Piano Concerto
> > recordings that manages to say
> > nothing meaningful about the
> > work or its performances.
> >
> A perfect example of how not to
> review recordings. Lots of history
> without any analysis of the music.
>
> Egregious ommissions of many of
> the finest performances available
> online. The world is long past the
> time when the only "recordings"
> were round thin slices of plastic.
>
> Little understanding of pianistic
> craft. Wallowing in meaningless
> prose such as
>
> "Despite some untidy moments, one
> feels that this is the spirit in which
> Grieg envisaged the work to be heard"
>
> How the fuck would one know
> what Grieg heard in his head ?!?
>
> "noble, sumptuous rendering of
> the solo part"
>
> As if playing the concerto were
> som kind of formal ceremony ?!?
>
> And so on.
>

As further evidence to prove my
point I uploaded a recording of
the Grieg Piano Concerto that
is definitely one of the top
readings -- and JN does not
even mention it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mst7wj8cekn7bi/Grieg%2C%20Piano%20Concerto.mp3?dl=0

Listen and draw your own
conclusions.

dk

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: castigli...@gmail.com (Néstor Castiglione)
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 by: Néstor Castiglione - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 21:51 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 1:16:19 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> >
> > Tikhon Khrennikov was by all accounts
> > a reprehensible careerist individual,
> Judging from what evidence ?!?

The K-man himself admitted being so in an interview late in life, but stressed that his conduct was a result of his, er... unique work environment. Maybe a self-serving answer on his part, but I'm inclined to believe there is much truth to it. Of course, further evidence is provided by the reminiscences of Mira Mendelson, Levon Atovmyan, Tigran Mansurian, Valentin Silvestrov, and others; not to mention by how he shattered the careers of Gavriil Popov and Sergei Prokofiev. The latter would likely have recovered his fortunes after 1953 had he lived longer, but the former never did recapture his already undeservedly negligible standing in Soviet music.

> Comrade Khrennikov was an
> excellent composer and a
> loyal party member who
> served his country with
> great distinction, even
> though he never won
> a Grammy! ;-)
>
> dk

His Gramophone Award is surely in the mail, though.

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 00:12 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 4:51:54 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 1:16:19 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:24:05 PM UTC-5, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> > >
> > > Tikhon Khrennikov was by all accounts
> > > a reprehensible careerist individual,
> > Judging from what evidence ?!?
>
> The K-man himself admitted being so in an
> interview late in life, but stressed that his
> conduct was a result of his, er... unique
> work environment. Maybe a self-serving
> answer on his part, but I'm inclined to believe
> there is much truth to it. Of course, further
> evidence is provided by the reminiscences
> of Mira Mendelson, Levon Atovmyan, Tigran
> Mansurian, Valentin Silvestrov, and others;
> not to mention by how he shattered the
> careers of Gavriil Popov and Sergei Prokofiev.
> The latter would likely have recovered his fortunes
> after 1953 had he lived longer, but the former never
> did recapture his already undeservedly negligible
> standing in Soviet music.
>
> > Comrade Khrennikov was an
> > excellent composer and a
> > loyal party member who
> > served his country with
> > great distinction, even
> > though he never won
> > a Grammy! ;-)
>
> His Gramophone Award is
> surely in the mail, though.

Do you think Her Majesty
may make him a KBE? ;-)

dk

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 00:36 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 4:10:06 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:45:30 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> > Here is another prime example of
> > Gramophone retarded imbecility:
> >
> > https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/grieg-s-piano-concerto-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings
> >
> > Jeremy Nicholas' just published
> > review of Grieg Piano Concerto
> > recordings that manages to say
> > nothing meaningful about the
> > work or its performances.
> >
> A perfect example of how not to
> review recordings. Lots of history
> without any analysis of the music.
>
> Egregious ommissions of many of
> the finest performances available
> online. The world is long past the
> time when the only "recordings"
> were round thin slices of plastic.
>
> Little understanding of pianistic
> craft. Wallowing in meaningless
> prose such as
>
> "Despite some untidy moments, one
> feels that this is the spirit in which
> Grieg envisaged the work to be heard"
>
> How the fuck would one know
> what Grieg heard in his head ?!?
>
> "noble, sumptuous rendering of
> the solo part"
>
> As if playing the concerto were
> som kind of formal ceremony ?!?
>
> And so on.

Curiously enough, JN does not
even mention Solomon Cutner,
whos Grieg/Schumann PCs LP
was highly reviewed at the time
by the British record reviewers
who claimed is was as "noble"
as Lipatti's. In the dialect spoken
across the pond "noble" is an
elegant spelling of "boring".

dk

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:12 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:31:05 AM UTC+11, lenny2005 wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:30:49 AM UTC, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
> >
> > 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> > 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> > 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> > 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> > 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> > 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> > 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> > 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> > 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> > 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra
> The British orchestras and conductors on this list are, in fact, so ludicrously inept that they appear not to have turned up to the recording sessions and had their names removed from the finished product.
>
> Agree about the British bias of The Gramophone but really...

People like The Tum-Tum with the Tam-Tam ;-) keep telling us about the British bias of British critics, but the Gramophone Awards and their Recordings of the Month really don't bear this out. I find a lot of their reviews vapid, but not biased. And of course they never seem to include Desperate Dan's preferred pianists for some reason or other.

<https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/1e/30/441e3036c1d9bf9f57c0f5e81fefb031.jpg>

Meanwhile, here are the (London) Daily Telegraph's latest recommendations:

Verdi: Rigoletto. Maggio Musicale Fiorentino (DVD)

Hans Werner Henze: Nachtstuecke und Arien, etc. Juliane Banse, Narek Hakhnazaryan, Austrian Radio Symphony Orchestra.

CPE Bach. Sonatas and Rondos, Marc-Andre Hamelin (also on The Gramophone's list).

No Brits at all in this one. And the Telegraph is a right of centre daily rapidly going downmarket, so I'm surprised it still reviews classical CDs at all.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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 by: Frank Berger - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:28 UTC

On 2/13/2022 7:36 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 4:10:06 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
>> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 3:45:30 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
>>> Here is another prime example of
>>> Gramophone retarded imbecility:
>>>
>>> https://www.gramophone.co.uk/features/article/grieg-s-piano-concerto-a-deep-dive-into-the-best-recordings
>>>
>>> Jeremy Nicholas' just published
>>> review of Grieg Piano Concerto
>>> recordings that manages to say
>>> nothing meaningful about the
>>> work or its performances.
>>>
>> A perfect example of how not to
>> review recordings. Lots of history
>> without any analysis of the music.
>>

That's funny. I just read an online "review" of a recording (I can't recall what right now - it doesn't matter) in which the "reviewer" discussed the history / background of the works and the conductor and the orchestras and complete forgot to evaluate the recording.

I bunch of NHK recordings in the Japanese King label just appeared at BRSO. It was one of those, I think.

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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:35 UTC

On Monday, 14 February 2022 at 07:24:05 UTC+11, Néstor Castiglione wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 1:30:49 AM UTC-8, andrewc...gmail.com wrote:
> > Yes, the British Critics are at it again. Here is The Gramophone's current Top CDs for 2022, predictably stuffed with Elgar, Holst, Vaughan Williams, Tavener etc. played by and ludicrously inept British orchestras with British conductors and soloists. WARNING: this list is not suitable for persons of a nervous disposition.
> >
> > 1. Beethoven ‘Révolution, Vol 2’ Symphonies Nos 6-9. Le Concert des Nations / Jordi Savall
> > 2. Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss ‘Métamorphoses nocturnes’. Appassionato / Mathieu Herzog
> > 3. Brahms Clarinet Sonatas. Michael Collins cl Stephen Hough pf
> > 4. Weinberg ‘Light in Darkness’. Linus Roth vn et al
> > 5. CPE Bach Sonatas & Rondos. Marc-André Hamelin pf
> > 6. Liszt ‘Vol 1: Death and Transfiguration’. Kenneth Hamilton pf
> > 7. ‘Maria & Maddalena’. Francesca Aspromonte sop I Barocchisti / Diego Fasolis
> > 8. ‘Song’. The Hermes Experiment
> > 9. Rameau Acante et Céphise. Les Ambassadeurs – La Grande Écurie / Alexis Kossenko
> > 10. ‘Mirrors’ Jeanine De Bique sop., Concerto Köln / Luca Quintavalle
> >
> > Andrew Clarke
> > Canberra

> Weinberg hardly counts as an exemplar of that apparently still much loathed aforementioned musical period. At first I thought Weinberg to be intensely derivative of Shostakovich—the former's music seems to evince no other stylistic model—but later discovered that he actually anticipated, sometimes by decades, a lot of ideas the latter would employ in his late works. Obviously Shostakovich sincerely enjoyed his music and held it in high regard. (Then again, he tended to reserve his highest praise for young composers who didn't stray very far from his stylistic orbit.) Even so, Weinberg sometimes strikes me as an artist I'm compelled to like for reasons other than the intrinsic quality of his music. I've listened to loads of his music since first encountering it in my teens back in the 1990s, but still can't shake off the impression that, for all the man's personal decency in the face of the travails he endured, his music is decidedly third-rate..

I've more or less come to the same conclusion. Weinberg tries very hard, but lacks the "je ne sais quoi" that DSCH possesses in spades.

Ray Hall, Taree

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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 01:59 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 7:24:05 AM UTC+11, Néstor Castiglione wrote:

> All joshing aside, I wonder who the "typical" Gramophone reader is. Do they listen to things like the above? Do they really abhor 20th century music that deeply?

Nestor, I don't think there is a "typical" Gramophone reader, and the market for (e.g.) the French Baroque seems to be quite strong. And Henze was, after all, a 20th century composer, as were Respighi. Schoenberg. R Strauss who also appear above. The interesting one is The Hermes Experiment, a definitely 21st century ensemble:

<https://www.thehermesexperiment.com/>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:07 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:59:26 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Nestor, I don't think there is a
> "typical" Gramophone reader,

The typical gramophone
reader is a cartridge.

dk

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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 02:26 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:05:59 PM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:

> 3/10 are British performers.
>
> Henk

Henk, most recordings of classical music these days seem to come from Germany, Britain and France. I don't think 3/10 is an unrepresentative amount, really.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 05:46 UTC

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:26:54 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:05:59 PM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>
> > 3/10 are British performers.
>
> Henk, most recordings of classical music
> these days seem to come from Germany,
> Britain and France.

Japan? South Korea?

dk

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 11:53 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 4:46:56 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 9:26:54 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 10:05:59 PM UTC+11, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
> >
> > > 3/10 are British performers.
> >
> > Henk, most recordings of classical music
> > these days seem to come from Germany,
> > Britain and France.
> Japan? South Korea?
>

I meant of course new recordings, if possible of living artists. Japan is probably fine if you like Bach Cantatas. Don't know about South Korea. K-pop (i.e. Mozart)?

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:08 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 8:10:06 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

> "Despite some untidy moments, one
> feels that this is the spirit in which
> Grieg envisaged the work to be heard"
>
> How the fuck would one know
> what Grieg heard in his head ?!?
>
> "noble, sumptuous rendering of
> the solo part"
>
> As if playing the concerto were
> some kind of formal ceremony ?!?
>
> And so on.
>
> dk

I agree in general about the Gramophone's particular brand of posh waffle. In the case of Grieg, however, we do have presumably what the composer passed on to Percy Grainger. 'Noble and sumptuous' doesn't really imply a formal ceremony to my mind, but God alone knows what the reviewer meant by it. 'Noble' is usually used to describe older recordings that despite being maybe deficient in sound quality or performance by modern standards, have acquired a status all of their own, and which we keep returning to.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
From: andrewcl...@gmail.com (Andrew Clarke)
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Mon, 14 Feb 2022 12:15 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 11:12:24 AM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:

> Do you think Her Majesty
> may make him a KBE? ;-)
>

The Royal Family is famously - um - middle of the road when it comes to music. Their favourite orchestra was led by this man, who received an LVO, a decoration in the Queen's gift, often regarded as a greater honour than a KBE:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Loss>

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone

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Subject: Re: More British Rubbish from The Gramophone
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 by: Andrew Clarke - Tue, 15 Feb 2022 04:36 UTC

On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 1:07:47 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 8:59:26 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Nestor, I don't think there is a
> > "typical" Gramophone reader,
> The typical gramophone
> reader is a cartridge.
>
> dk

Meanwhile, let us look at The Guardian, a sort of Thinking Man's New York Times. It features a five star review of piano music by Grażyna Bacewicz played by Peter Jablonski. Then there's a five star review of a reissue of the Beethoven piano concertos plus Choral Fantasy with Rudolf Serkin/Bavarian RSO/Rafael Kubelík. There's an appreciative review of J.S. Bach sonatas and partitas from Greek violinist Leonidas Kavakos and some CPE Bach from the Gaechinger Cantorey. Then there's Scenes from the Kalevala by various composers played by the Lahti SO/Dima Slobodeniouk. They also likes the new recording of Debussy's Pelleas et Melisande from Les Siecles and F-X Roth. I'm afraid British names are rather thin on the ground: there are two of them, Alan Bush and Martin Suckling.

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

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