On 2/25/2022 9:12 AM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:49:39 UTC+11, Chris J. wrote:
>> On 25 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
>>
>>> Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in yellow and blue on
>>> Friday in a show of support for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
>>> Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
>>> and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while announcing new sanctions against
>>> Moscow.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra received a long, standing
>>> ovation when they played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems before their
>>> concert in Prague on Thursday.
>>> It is likely that many in the audience lived through the 1968 Russian
>>> invasion of Czechoslovakia.
>> Very good, exceptionally brave, and morally superior. We all know that
>> such pseudo-solidarity, safe and without serious obligations or major
>> consequences, will help Ukraine right now and immediately stop a
>> frightened czar Vladimir Putin. How fortunate that it's so easy to
>> achieve peace in our time. And it's so cheap.
>>
>> Chris
>
> So easy to be cynical without cost as well. So what do you suggest that people/countries do to meet the obligations we should feel about the current situation?
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

If you are saying talk is cheap, we knew that already. There is nothing inconsistent about our hearts going out to the oppressed Ukrainians and not being able to do much about it, is there?

On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 02:27:34 UTC+11, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 9:12 AM, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:49:39 UTC+11, Chris J. wrote:
> >> On 25 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
> >>
> >>> Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in yellow and blue on
> >>> Friday in a show of support for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
> >>> Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
> >>> and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while announcing new sanctions against
> >>> Moscow.
> >>>
> >>> Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra received a long, standing
> >>> ovation when they played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems before their
> >>> concert in Prague on Thursday.
> >>> It is likely that many in the audience lived through the 1968 Russian
> >>> invasion of Czechoslovakia.
> >> Very good, exceptionally brave, and morally superior. We all know that
> >> such pseudo-solidarity, safe and without serious obligations or major
> >> consequences, will help Ukraine right now and immediately stop a
> >> frightened czar Vladimir Putin. How fortunate that it's so easy to
> >> achieve peace in our time. And it's so cheap.
> >>
> >> Chris
> >
> > So easy to be cynical without cost as well. So what do you suggest that people/countries do to meet the obligations we should feel about the current situation?
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> If you are saying talk is cheap, we knew that already. There is nothing inconsistent about our hearts going out to the oppressed Ukrainians and not being able to do much about it, is there?

I was addressing someone else. Your answer implies you didn't fully understand my question. Your last sentence is also very consistent with what is obvious to most people and didn't need saying either.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 4:50:11 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> There will be all kinds of developments we are not seeing yet. For instance, my ex is Serbian and Serbia won't join in sanctions according to its president. They want to remain independent and free to negotiate with Russia and China as they see fit. This will probably mean falling foul of the USA and the EU. According to my ex, Serbians are really angry that the USA and Europe and moving mountains to defend Ukraine when it's a question of Ukraine losing its territories. When that happened to Serbia in the Balkan war and Bosnia and Kossova were taken away from Serbia despite having strong Serbian populations, far from respecting Serbia and honouring its people they bombed the country. Serbians will never forgive that. While Croatia, the darling of the west, collaborated with the Nazis during the war, Serbia resisted at great cost to its population. And the terms of the original separation of the Balkan countries was never made clear and is still unclear. We know that Milosevic stormed out of the talks, which included the USA, and then very mysteriously died in prison before he could testify to what happened.. Ask any Serbian about the Balkan War (or anything else...) and they will say "You just don't understand". And they are probably right most of the time.

You just don't understand! ;-)

dk

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 7:49:39 AM UTC-5, Chris J. wrote:
> On 25 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > Melbourne's Flinders Street Station was lit up in yellow and blue on
> > Friday in a show of support for Ukraine. Australian Prime Minister Scott
> > Morrison called Russia's invasion "brutal"
> > and "unprovoked," on Thursday, while announcing new sanctions against
> > Moscow.
> >
> > Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra received a long, standing
> > ovation when they played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems before their
> > concert in Prague on Thursday.
> > It is likely that many in the audience lived through the 1968 Russian
> > invasion of Czechoslovakia.
> Very good, exceptionally brave, and morally superior. We all know that
> such pseudo-solidarity, safe and without serious obligations or major
> consequences, will help Ukraine right now and immediately stop a
> frightened czar Vladimir Putin. How fortunate that it's so easy to
> achieve peace in our time. And it's so cheap.
>

Merely reporting/reposting bits of news.

dk

In article <cdabec91-11da-4d29-8b24-035ad712c666n@googlegroups.com>,
HT <hvtuijl@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>Some tend to forget that Western politics is (post-)imperialist:

Exactly.

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 2:19:50 PM UTC+11, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:00:37 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> > On 2022-02-24 6:42 p.m., Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 2:27:11 PM UTC-5, Graham wrote:
> > >> On 2022-02-24 9:55 a.m., Chris J. wrote:
> > >>> On 24 Feb 2022 Dan Koren wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Boukoff is OK, but he is no Richter.
> > >>>> Or Gilels. And he is not even French.
> > >>>> Why does France need all these
> > >>>> immigrants to pretend it has a piano
> > >>>> school?
> > >>>
> > >>> Because the French lack the necessary
> > >>> discipline and are too neurotic,
> > >>> yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> > >>> ;-)
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>> (ducking)
> > >> No need!
> > >> "France cannot be France without
> > >> greatness" - General de Gaulle.
> > >
> > > He probably meant tall people.
> >
> > With big noses!
> My favorite British song:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dy-VhtGcXw
>
> dk

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVN-EiSHxJ4>

Also recorded by the inimitable Dr Evadne Hinge and Dame Hilda Bracket ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 4:30:19 AM UTC+11, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 February 2022 at 16:55:06 UTC, Chris J. wrote:
> > Because the French lack the necessary discipline and are too neurotic,
> > yet dream of gloire et grandeur?
> > ;-) > Chris > (ducking)
> On the contrary, French music training is extremely disciplined and starts with solfege at an early age.
>
> And when did being neurotic become a problem for musicians?

Or poets ...

Le piano que baise une main frêle
Luit dans le soir rose et gris vaguement,
Tandis qu'avec un très léger bruit d'aile
Un air bien vieux, bien faible et bien charmant
Rôde discret, épeuré quasiment,
Par le boudoir longtemps parfumé d'Elle.

- Paul Verlaine, fin de siecle neurotic, but a goy already. NB: the verb 'baiser' here has its traditional or literary meaning, although with some pianists it might have its contemporary meaning as well ...

Andrew Clarke
Canberra

On 2/25/22 6:05 AM, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/25/2022 5:43 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 10:10:06 UTC, hvt...@xs4all.nl wrote:
>>> Some tend to forget that Western politics is (post-)imperialist:
>>> still based on a highly selective use of norms and values.
>>>> Henk
>>
>> Yes absolutely. In the larger picture, USA and Europe have for a very
>> long time believed they rule the world and can set up the conditions
>> on which it operates it. But both USA and Europe have dark histories -
>> USA messed up big time in Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, the Middle East and
>> the Balkans to name just some recent attempts at intervention, plus it
>> ruthlessly toppled left leaning regimes in Latin America and elsewhere
>> and has prolonged the Cold War against anything "socialist". The USA
>> has behaved despicably to its native and black populations, as did the
>> European colonial powers in Africa, India, the East and beyond.
>> Against that USA and Europe have the best democracies in the world,
>> though Republicans are trying their best to turn the USA into a one
>> party state. And in terms of climate change Europe is probably ahead
>> of all other countries. But both the USA and Europe are huge arms
>> factories that have armed conflict all around the world with no
>> apparent regrets. They are no saints. And in supporting without
>> questions asked anything that Israel and Saudi Arabia does, USA has
>> created an axis that automatically makes enemies in the Middle East
>> and fuels conflict there.
>>
>> The alliance of USA and Europe has up to now felt invincible and free
>> to make rules for other countries. But the rise of Russia and China
>> worldwide is starting to paint a radically different picture. Up to
>> now Russia and China have stayed well clear of conflict with the West,
>> but the balance of power is changing. USA and Europe are quaking in
>> their boots at the idea of Russia and China making up the new world
>> order, and with some justification given the tyrants that run both
>> countries. Unfortunately USA is very poor at diplomacy, and just
>> re-iterates the old concepts of how it wants to see the world, and the
>> USA is a very insular country with a poor understanding of how to
>> collaborate with neighbours.
>>
>> We are seeing a big clash of ideologies which has been waiting to
>> happen for a good while, and where it will lead nobody really knows at
>> this point. The world is really tense about everything, given the
>> pandemic and climate change, and all kinds of behaviours may
>> spontaneously erupt around the world. People are starting to feel very
>> worried about what's ahead.
>
> I am worried, too.  When people seem not to be able to understand that
> people (you do know that nations and movements are composed of
> individual people, right?) are a whole lot better off living under one
> form of government (loosely called democracy) than under tryanny, I fear
> all is lost.

Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West. To be sure, it has its
faults, but compared to the thugocracy that is Russia and the Orwellian
Hell that is China, it's not bad, not bad at all. It's no surprise,
then, that people want to come to the US and Western Europe, but I
haven't seen any crowds stampeding to get into either of the
aforementioned places. Maybe I've missed something, but I don't think so.

Bob Harper

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:01:40 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 4:30:19 AM UTC+11, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> > And when did being neurotic
> > become a problem for musicians?
>
> Or poets ...

Chaging topics? Poets don't matter,
unless they produce music as well.

Here is the greatest American poet:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQMo1CbI1PHFWnZl-76NbJw

Here are the greatest French poets:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY7Rc00xpIySTZoyCA5m8uw
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzmPKJcdeMKGiy-93Jn4pZA

The greatest Russian poet:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqeDJCdc-tVWTK1z21Vb4IQ

and the greatest Polish poet:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf4sFlb3-8Q-HmxtE3vf_7w

dk

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:44:45 PM UTC-5, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:01:40 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 4:30:19 AM UTC+11, Andy Evans wrote:
> > >
> > > And when did being neurotic
> > > become a problem for musicians?
> >
> > Or poets ...
> Chaging topics? Poets don't matter,
> unless they produce music as well.
>
> Here is the greatest American poet:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQMo1CbI1PHFWnZl-76NbJw
>
> Here are the greatest French poets:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY7Rc00xpIySTZoyCA5m8uw
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzmPKJcdeMKGiy-93Jn4pZA
>
> The greatest Russian poet:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqeDJCdc-tVWTK1z21Vb4IQ
>
> and the greatest Polish poet:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf4sFlb3-8Q-HmxtE3vf_7w
>

Since Ewa Demarczyk is probably
less known than the others I take
the liberty to post one of her finest
tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv_IjlzlfCE

dk

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 6:01:40 PM UTC-5, andrewc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> - Paul Verlaine, fin de siecle neurotic,

Verlaine, Mallarmé, Rimbaud.
Reminding me of high school.
What a nut trio! ;-)

dk

On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
>> Bob Harper

That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.

What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.

Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote in news:a33707db-5351-46fc-8e6d-
ec62dc459a11n@googlegroups.com:
> Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
> received a long, standing ovation when they
> played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems
> before their concert in Prague on Thursday.
> It is likely that many in the audience lived
> through the 1968 Russian invasion of
> Czechoslovakia.

In 2012 I was with a tour group that did a day trip to Csesky
Krumlov in the CR, a town that, through centuries of benign
neglect, retained its Habsburg-era appearance and consequently
became a tourist attraction after the Velvet Revolution. The
guidebooks tell you that it's impossible to get lost there,
but somehow I managed, and stumbled upon the entrance to the
Gorilla Rock Club. The place wasn't open for the evening yet,
but the front door was notable for the four "ban" signs
(those red circles with the diagonal lines) on the glass.
The four bans: Guns; hypodemic needles; neckties; and the
Communist hammer and sickle. I thought the last one
particularly interesting, considering that some of the
establishment's clientele may well have been conceived
during the Velvet Revolution.

--
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
>>> Bob Harper
>
> That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.
>
> What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.

I would say something unkind, but I choose not to. Suffice to say, I
believe you are mistaken.

Bob Harper

On 2/25/22 9:01 PM, Sol L. Siegel wrote:
> Dan Koren <dan.koren@gmail.com> wrote in news:a33707db-5351-46fc-8e6d-
> ec62dc459a11n@googlegroups.com:
>
>> Meanwhile, the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
>> received a long, standing ovation when they
>> played the Czech and Ukrainian anthems
>> before their concert in Prague on Thursday.
>> It is likely that many in the audience lived
>> through the 1968 Russian invasion of
>> Czechoslovakia.
>
> In 2012 I was with a tour group that did a day trip to Csesky
> Krumlov in the CR, a town that, through centuries of benign
> neglect, retained its Habsburg-era appearance and consequently
> became a tourist attraction after the Velvet Revolution. The
> guidebooks tell you that it's impossible to get lost there,
> but somehow I managed, and stumbled upon the entrance to the
> Gorilla Rock Club. The place wasn't open for the evening yet,
> but the front door was notable for the four "ban" signs
> (those red circles with the diagonal lines) on the glass.
> The four bans: Guns; hypodemic needles; neckties; and the
> Communist hammer and sickle. I thought the last one
> particularly interesting, considering that some of the
> establishment's clientele may well have been conceived
> during the Velvet Revolution.
>
Wonderful place to visit, though I didn't find the Gorilla Rock Club :).

Bob Harper

On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 16:18:12 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> >> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
> >>> Bob Harper
> >
> > That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.
> >
> > What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.
> I would say something unkind, but I choose not to. Suffice to say, I
> believe you are mistaken.
>
> Bob Harper

I don't think so. In fact I don't think Andy has gone far enough.

What is surprising, rather than listening to simple outright denials, is the complete absense of arguments as to why people would defend this appalling individual. Or rather, perhaps it isn't so surprising after all. The man is worse than Putin. Far worse.

Ray Hall, Taree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBIjVIgAcfc

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 1:10:36 AM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 16:18:12 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> > On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> > >> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
> > >>> Bob Harper
> > >
> > > That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge
> > > European, and I support Europe in every
> > > way, especially for supporting all the
> > > science on Climate Change and leading
> > > the fight against it while most other nations
> > > don't give a damn.
> > >
> > > What I don't like is the Republican Party and
> > > all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn
> > > America into a one party state through downright
> > > lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism
> > > in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump
> > > was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst.
> > > To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most
> > > Europeans.
> >
> > I would say something unkind, but I choose not
> > to. Suffice to say, I believe you are mistaken.
>
> I don't think so. In fact I don't think Andy
> has gone far enough.

Andy is a true gentleman -- in addition to
being among the smartest most cultured
folks in this ng.

> What is surprising, rather than listening to
> simple outright denials, is the complete
> absense of arguments as to why people
> would defend this appalling individual. Or
< rather, perhaps it isn't so surprising after all.

No arguments are needed against obvious
truths supported by common sense and
by all our senses. Isn't the Earth flat?

dk

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 11:18:12 PM UTC-6, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> >> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
> >>> Bob Harper
> >
> > That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.
> >
> > What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.
> I would say something unkind, but I choose not to. Suffice to say, I
> believe you are mistaken.
>
> Bob Harper

You missed a golden opportunity to distinguish conservatism from Trump, and conservatism form the Republican party. I doubt you have anything positive to say about the this invasion, the January 6 insurrectionists, gerrymandering, bogus claims of voter fraud, or the claims that the election was stolen. Do you believe that voting should be made as difficult as possible for Democrats? I doubt it. The party is being led by someone who valorizes dictators and disdains our allies, and who screams as loud as he can "we can only lose if what is rightfully ours is stolen from us." Why look past all of this shameful behavior? Don't be an accomplice.

On 2/25/22 10:10 PM, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 16:18:12 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
>> On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>>>> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
>>>>> Bob Harper
>>>
>>> That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.
>>>
>>> What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.
>> I would say something unkind, but I choose not to. Suffice to say, I
>> believe you are mistaken.
>>
>> Bob Harper
>
> I don't think so. In fact I don't think Andy has gone far enough.
>
> What is surprising, rather than listening to simple outright denials, is the complete absense of arguments as to why people would defend this appalling individual. Or rather, perhaps it isn't so surprising after all. The man is worse than Putin. Far worse.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

Ray, of all the things you have said in this forum, that is the silliest.

Bob Harper

On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 17:26:01 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
The man is worse than Putin. Far worse.
> > > > Ray Hall, Taree

> Ray, of all the things you have said in this forum, that is the silliest.
> > Bob Harper

At this moment when Putin is invading Ukraine he looks a lot worse, granted..

But put it in context. After 4 years Trump already had a history of downright lies, manipulation and lack of care for the health of his country. He operated in a democratic country, but one which he is trying to turn into a one party state. Scroll forward and ask yourself what he would do if he were president for 23 years. The USA would not invade one of its neighbours - the geography isn't the same. But I hate to think what 23 years of Trump would end up giving us. What a nightmare.

On 2/26/22 12:57 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 17:26:01 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> The man is worse than Putin. Far worse.
>>>>> Ray Hall, Taree
>
>> Ray, of all the things you have said in this forum, that is the silliest.
>>> Bob Harper
>
> At this moment when Putin is invading Ukraine he looks a lot worse, granted.
>
> But put it in context. After 4 years Trump already had a history of downright lies, manipulation and lack of care for the health of his country. He operated in a democratic country, but one which he is trying to turn into a one party state. Scroll forward and ask yourself what he would do if he were president for 23 years. The USA would not invade one of its neighbours - the geography isn't the same. But I hate to think what 23 years of Trump would end up giving us. What a nightmare.

One of the reasons we have a Constitution, and in this case the 22nd
Amendment thereto, is precisely to make such a thing impossible. As I'm
sure you know, there was an unwritten tradition, beginning with Geo.
Washington and extending to FDR, of two terms and no more. FDR violated
that tradition, and the 22nd Amendment codified the two-term limit. If
you would like to argue that Donald Trump could have overridden that
prohibition, I respectfully suggest that you are simply incorrect. In
1960, some Republicans would have liked to give Ike a third term, which
he likely would have won, and which would have been a bad idea, given
his health, but the Constitution forbade it. I have little doubt that
Barack Obama (about whom many of the same things you say about Trump
could be said--he was just smoother) would have run for a third term had
he been permitted to, but he couldn't. Donald Trump at the end of a
second term would have faced the same restriction, and it would have
stuck. But you know, he's gone and will continue to decline in
importance, no matter how much the Democrats continue to try to make a
boogie man of him. You heard it here.

Bob Harper

On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 09:11:57 UTC+11, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/26/22 12:57 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Saturday, 26 February 2022 at 17:26:01 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
> > The man is worse than Putin. Far worse.
> >>>>> Ray Hall, Taree
> >
> >> Ray, of all the things you have said in this forum, that is the silliest.
> >>> Bob Harper
> >
> > At this moment when Putin is invading Ukraine he looks a lot worse, granted.
> >
> > But put it in context. After 4 years Trump already had a history of downright lies, manipulation and lack of care for the health of his country. He operated in a democratic country, but one which he is trying to turn into a one party state. Scroll forward and ask yourself what he would do if he were president for 23 years. The USA would not invade one of its neighbours - the geography isn't the same. But I hate to think what 23 years of Trump would end up giving us. What a nightmare.
> One of the reasons we have a Constitution, and in this case the 22nd
> Amendment thereto, is precisely to make such a thing impossible. As I'm
> sure you know, there was an unwritten tradition, beginning with Geo.
> Washington and extending to FDR, of two terms and no more. FDR violated
> that tradition, and the 22nd Amendment codified the two-term limit. If
> you would like to argue that Donald Trump could have overridden that
> prohibition, I respectfully suggest that you are simply incorrect. In
> 1960, some Republicans would have liked to give Ike a third term, which
> he likely would have won, and which would have been a bad idea, given
> his health, but the Constitution forbade it. I have little doubt that
> Barack Obama (about whom many of the same things you say about Trump
> could be said--he was just smoother) would have run for a third term had
> he been permitted to, but he couldn't. Donald Trump at the end of a
> second term would have faced the same restriction, and it would have
> stuck. But you know, he's gone and will continue to decline in
> importance, no matter how much the Democrats continue to try to make a
> boogie man of him. You heard it here.
>
> Bob Harper

All of the above says not one whit about Trump, the man. In truth he had not matured beyond the age of a small child. There is not one aspect of the person that one could possibly admire. To trot out a list of his shortcomings is futile.Too many others have already done that. The scary thing is that for those of us outside the US, we know that an immature man-child should not be in charge of a nuclear arsenal.

I may be silly, granted, and I abhor what Putin is doing to the Ukraine, and also to those protesters in Russia, but at least his motives can be understood if one is prepared to look at problems from the opposite viewpoint. With Trump, nothing makes sense to me.

As you say, DT is 90% gone, but the Repubs have embraced the cult of Trumpism, where simple truth does not matter anymore.

Ray Hall, Taree

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 6:57:58 PM UTC-5, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> There is not one aspect of the
> person that one could possibly
> admire.

You don't like yellow hair ?!?
Jaune Trump! ;-)

dk

On 2/26/2022 12:18 AM, Bob Harper wrote:
> On 2/25/22 8:50 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Friday, 25 February 2022 at 23:41:56 UTC, Bob Harper wrote:
>>> Yes, we get that Andy doesn't like the West.
>>>> Bob Harper
>>
>> That's absolutely not true. I'm a huge European, and I support Europe in every way, especially for supporting all the science on Climate Change and leading the fight against it while most other nations don't give a damn.
>>
>> What I don't like is the Republican Party and all it stands for, and the way it it trying to turn America into a one party state through downright lies, manipulation and creeping right-wing extremism in states with Republican majorities. And for me Trump was one of the worst ever US presidents, if not the worst. To believe in and support that man is unbelievable to most Europeans.
>
> I would say something unkind, but I choose not to. Suffice to say, I believe you are mistaken.
>
> Bob Harper

When people start talking in extremes they can't be taken seriously.