On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 9:11:13 AM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> I
> used to think you were exaggerating his toxic qualities, but I stand
> corrected.

that's okay.

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 12:11:13 AM UTC-8, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <3cfcad45-2e71-4ac2...@googlegroups.com>,
> Herman <her...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >C'mon, Gerard. Be a little more generous. DK is very very
> >interested..... in his own thoughts.
> Not reading his posts anymore, I have to say, even more of the
> obnoxiousness around here originates with DK than I'd realized. I
> used to think you were exaggerating his toxic qualities, but I stand
> corrected.

https://www.insider.com/popular-dark-chocolate-brands-contain-lead-consumer-reports-2022-12

dk

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:46:48 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:04:50 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Who is/was Schaeffer?
> >
> MForever. Michael Schaeffer.
> A former double-bass player in German orchestras who moved to Southern Cal and worked as a tech..
> His comments were often superb, but, unfortunately, his temper was not always the greatest, exacerbated by the fact that he was German and thus was often called Nazi by Americans, and the fact that he was a highly knowledgable former musician. All professional music people have left this group pushed out by the know-it-alls.
> Alas he died a couple of years ago.

This is a bit of a cleanup job on Schaeffer, who was just as big a dick as anyone else here ever was, and who could dish "know-it-all" as much as the rest of them. (I'm talking about an attitude, not actual credentials.) To be clear, I enjoyed his company and benefitted from it when he wasn't angering people. Here's a thread where Don Tait notes how a comment by Schaeffer left him enraged for days. The idea that anyone who is still here pushed him out is nonsense. He made his own bed.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/gi8lpKH4rQI/m/UwPrk3FqFpAJ

It is unfortunately ironic that in a thread with no spoken hostility that I've seen people show up to comment on DK's "toxicity". He's the one who posted on-topic material. If you want civility, then recognize that there are appropriate times to post public judgments of character.

On 12/17/22 8:08 AM, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:46:48 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:04:50 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Who is/was Schaeffer?
>>>
>> MForever. Michael Schaeffer.
>> A former double-bass player in German orchestras who moved to Southern Cal and worked as a tech..
>> His comments were often superb, but, unfortunately, his temper was not always the greatest, exacerbated by the fact that he was German and thus was often called Nazi by Americans, and the fact that he was a highly knowledgable former musician. All professional music people have left this group pushed out by the know-it-alls.
>> Alas he died a couple of years ago.
>
> This is a bit of a cleanup job on Schaeffer, who was just as big a dick as anyone else here ever was, and who could dish "know-it-all" as much as the rest of them. (I'm talking about an attitude, not actual credentials.) To be clear, I enjoyed his company and benefitted from it when he wasn't angering people. Here's a thread where Don Tait notes how a comment by Schaeffer left him enraged for days. The idea that anyone who is still here pushed him out is nonsense. He made his own bed.
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/gi8lpKH4rQI/m/UwPrk3FqFpAJ
>
> It is unfortunately ironic that in a thread with no spoken hostility that I've seen people show up to comment on DK's "toxicity". He's the one who posted on-topic material. If you want civility, then recognize that there are appropriate times to post public judgments of character.

I believe his last name was spelled 'Schaffer', but I may be
misremembering. Yes, he could be a jerk, and loved indulging in nasty
attacks on people (I know; I was one of them), BUT his knowledge of the
music about which he cared was second to none, and I found in his on
topic comments much to ponder and from which to learn.

From http://www.film-tech.com/vbb/forum/film-yak/15393-michael-schaffer

It is with great sadness that I share the news that my friend and
colleague Michael Schaffer, Senior Projection and Sound Engineer with
Boston Light & Sound passed away unexpectedly early this morning.
Michael was a participant in these forums as well as many other on-line
forums related to film projection and truly loved this craft and sharing
his knowledge and experience with the wider film community. Michael will
be very much missed by those of us at BL&S and his passing is a great
loss to our industry.

RIP.

Bob Harper

I really applaud your post, Bob, being aware you two didn't hit it off, so to speak.

Whenever I see a double bassist with a pony tail in the back of the orchestra, I think of MS / MForever.

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 10:09:08 AM UTC-6, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:46:48 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:04:50 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Who is/was Schaeffer?
> > >
> > MForever. Michael Schaeffer.
> > A former double-bass player in German orchestras who moved to Southern Cal and worked as a tech..
> > His comments were often superb, but, unfortunately, his temper was not always the greatest, exacerbated by the fact that he was German and thus was often called Nazi by Americans, and the fact that he was a highly knowledgable former musician. All professional music people have left this group pushed out by the know-it-alls.
> > Alas he died a couple of years ago.
> This is a bit of a cleanup job on Schaeffer, who was just as big a dick as anyone else here ever was, and who could dish "know-it-all" as much as the rest of them. (I'm talking about an attitude, not actual credentials.) To be clear, I enjoyed his company and benefitted from it when he wasn't angering people. Here's a thread where Don Tait notes how a comment by Schaeffer left him enraged for days. The idea that anyone who is still here pushed him out is nonsense. He made his own bed.
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/gi8lpKH4rQI/m/UwPrk3FqFpAJ
>
> It is unfortunately ironic that in a thread with no spoken hostility that I've seen people show up to comment on DK's "toxicity". He's the one who posted on-topic material. If you want civility, then recognize that there are appropriate times to post public judgments of character.

I will add that it is perhaps distasteful that I am posting a public judgment of Michael now that he is no longer with us, but it isn't out of malice, just out of a wish to complicate the storyline of how certain (bad-ish) poeple made certain other (good-ish) people leave. I don't buy that. I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer people here than before, and finding someone to blame would be part of a problem, not a solution. In conclusion, I'm sorry Michael won't have a chance to return to the group; I value and remember much of what he wrote here.

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> people here than before,

Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.

When this ng became active > 3 decades ago, information
about music recordings was far less easily available than
it is today. Just following the main classical music review
magazines and catalogs -- e.g. Fanfare, the Gramophoney,
IRC, High Fidelity, Le Diapason d'Or, etc. took considerable
time and money many could not or would not afford.

Sampling new recordings was also not easy. Some of the
larger record stores in big cities provided a few listening
stations for customers to listen to recently release CDs
(or even LPs), requiring driving time and effort. R.m.c.r.
provided a forum for people to share information and
find out about recordings with much less effort and
with spending as much time as reading reviews or
browsing record stores.

Nowadays most recordings can be sampled on line,
downloaded at will, etc.. live performances can be
watched on Medici, YT, etc.. The practical need to
receive information and recommendations from
others is much diminished.

There are also natural causes: loss of interest,
boredom, deaths, and so on.

Pretty simple stories, don't you think?

dk

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:57:20 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> > people here than before,
> Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.

The reason is you're an evil hateful racist, spreading hatred.
Funny, people don't like that.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 5:00:50 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:57:20 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> > > people here than before,
> > Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
> The reason is you're an evil hateful racist, spreading hatred.
> Funny, people don't like that.
Ever wondered why stalwarts like Bob H and Frank don't post a lot here anymore?
They clearly expressed their discomfort with your hateful divisive racist talk, including deeply unfunny gibes to Frank about "rabies".
Of course, you don't connect the dots.

On 12/17/22 10:57 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
>> people here than before,
>
> Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
>
> When this ng became active > 3 decades ago, information
> about music recordings was far less easily available than
> it is today. Just following the main classical music review
> magazines and catalogs -- e.g. Fanfare, the Gramophoney,
> IRC, High Fidelity, Le Diapason d'Or, etc. took considerable
> time and money many could not or would not afford.
>
> Sampling new recordings was also not easy. Some of the
> larger record stores in big cities provided a few listening
> stations for customers to listen to recently release CDs
> (or even LPs), requiring driving time and effort. R.m.c.r.
> provided a forum for people to share information and
> find out about recordings with much less effort and
> with spending as much time as reading reviews or
> browsing record stores.
>
> Nowadays most recordings can be sampled on line,
> downloaded at will, etc.. live performances can be
> watched on Medici, YT, etc.. The practical need to
> receive information and recommendations from
> others is much diminished.
>
> There are also natural causes: loss of interest,
> boredom, deaths, and so on.
>
> Pretty simple stories, don't you think?
>
> dk
>

Everything you mention is quite true, but was also valid in 2019 - and
just looking at threads from then shows many names that are now missing.
I'm certainly not blaming you for all, but does it help to encourage
participation to be called an idiot? My suggestion is to just tone it
down somewhat. You recently made an analogy relating to use of screen
names - people at parties introduce themselves - and at parties folks
don't generally insult each others...

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:38:51 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
> On 12/17/22 10:57 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> >> people here than before,
> >
> > Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
> >
> > When this ng became active > 3 decades ago, information
> > about music recordings was far less easily available than
> > it is today. Just following the main classical music review
> > magazines and catalogs -- e.g. Fanfare, the Gramophoney,
> > IRC, High Fidelity, Le Diapason d'Or, etc. took considerable
> > time and money many could not or would not afford.
> >
> > Sampling new recordings was also not easy. Some of the
> > larger record stores in big cities provided a few listening
> > stations for customers to listen to recently release CDs
> > (or even LPs), requiring driving time and effort. R.m.c.r.
> > provided a forum for people to share information and
> > find out about recordings with much less effort and
> > with spending as much time as reading reviews or
> > browsing record stores.
> >
> > Nowadays most recordings can be sampled on line,
> > downloaded at will, etc.. live performances can be
> > watched on Medici, YT, etc.. The practical need to
> > receive information and recommendations from
> > others is much diminished.
> >
> > There are also natural causes: loss of interest,
> > boredom, deaths, and so on.
> >
> > Pretty simple stories, don't you think?
>
> Everything you mention is quite true, but was also
> valid in 2019 - and just looking at threads from then
> shows many names that are now missing.

COVID ?!?

> I'm certainly not blaming you for all,

You obviously are, just from the way you phrase it.

> but does it help to encourage participation to be
> called an idiot?

1) Some people are actually idiots.

2) I see no reason to "encourage" or "discourage" or
"xyzcourage" anyone to do or not not do anything in
particular. It is a free open group, anyone can come
and go, anyone can say anything they want, etc...

3) IMHO it is a really bad idea to proselytize r.m.c.r.

If you want to normalize behaviors and to
standardize language, we can have the
group moderated. One cannot have it
both ways.

> My suggestion is to just tone it down somewhat.

My suggestion is to take off your anonymous troll
mask and to tone down your lecturing and your
uncessant condescending pontification.

> You recently made an analogy relating to use of
> screen names - people at parties introduce themselves -
> and at parties folks don't generally insult each others...

Precisely because they are not wearing masks. As
long as you act as an anonymous troll you do not
deserve any respect. Trolls are not decent people.

dk

On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:57:37 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:38:51 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
> > On 12/17/22 10:57 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> > >> people here than before,
> > >
> > > Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
> > >
> > > When this ng became active > 3 decades ago, information
> > > about music recordings was far less easily available than
> > > it is today. Just following the main classical music review
> > > magazines and catalogs -- e.g. Fanfare, the Gramophoney,
> > > IRC, High Fidelity, Le Diapason d'Or, etc. took considerable
> > > time and money many could not or would not afford.
> > >
> > > Sampling new recordings was also not easy. Some of the
> > > larger record stores in big cities provided a few listening
> > > stations for customers to listen to recently release CDs
> > > (or even LPs), requiring driving time and effort. R.m.c.r.
> > > provided a forum for people to share information and
> > > find out about recordings with much less effort and
> > > with spending as much time as reading reviews or
> > > browsing record stores.
> > >
> > > Nowadays most recordings can be sampled on line,
> > > downloaded at will, etc.. live performances can be
> > > watched on Medici, YT, etc.. The practical need to
> > > receive information and recommendations from
> > > others is much diminished.
> > >
> > > There are also natural causes: loss of interest,
> > > boredom, deaths, and so on.
> > >
> > > Pretty simple stories, don't you think?
> >
> > Everything you mention is quite true, but was also
> > valid in 2019 - and just looking at threads from then
> > shows many names that are now missing.
> COVID ?!?
> > I'm certainly not blaming you for all,
> You obviously are, just from the way you phrase it.
> > but does it help to encourage participation to be
> > called an idiot?
> 1) Some people are actually idiots.
>
> 2) I see no reason to "encourage" or "discourage" or
> "xyzcourage" anyone to do or not not do anything in
> particular. It is a free open group, anyone can come
> and go, anyone can say anything they want, etc...
>
> 3) IMHO it is a really bad idea to proselytize r.m.c.r.
>
> If you want to normalize behaviors and to
> standardize language, we can have the
> group moderated. One cannot have it
> both ways.
> > My suggestion is to just tone it down somewhat.
> My suggestion is to take off your anonymous troll
> mask and to tone down your lecturing and your
> uncessant condescending pontification.
> > You recently made an analogy relating to use of
> > screen names - people at parties introduce themselves -
> > and at parties folks don't generally insult each others...

> Precisely because they are not wearing masks. As
> long as you act as an anonymous troll you do not
> deserve any respect. Trolls are not decent people.

And yet, you constantly play the roll of a troll, Dan... and probably play with yourself as you do it... like I said before, different "strokes" for different folks...

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 12:28:51 AM UTC-5, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:57:37 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 8:38:51 PM UTC-8, Notsure01 wrote:
> > > On 12/17/22 10:57 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
> > > >> people here than before,
> > > >
> > > > Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
> > > >
> > > > When this ng became active > 3 decades ago, information
> > > > about music recordings was far less easily available than
> > > > it is today. Just following the main classical music review
> > > > magazines and catalogs -- e.g. Fanfare, the Gramophoney,
> > > > IRC, High Fidelity, Le Diapason d'Or, etc. took considerable
> > > > time and money many could not or would not afford.
> > > >
> > > > Sampling new recordings was also not easy. Some of the
> > > > larger record stores in big cities provided a few listening
> > > > stations for customers to listen to recently release CDs
> > > > (or even LPs), requiring driving time and effort. R.m.c.r.
> > > > provided a forum for people to share information and
> > > > find out about recordings with much less effort and
> > > > with spending as much time as reading reviews or
> > > > browsing record stores.
> > > >
> > > > Nowadays most recordings can be sampled on line,
> > > > downloaded at will, etc.. live performances can be
> > > > watched on Medici, YT, etc.. The practical need to
> > > > receive information and recommendations from
> > > > others is much diminished.
> > > >
> > > > There are also natural causes: loss of interest,
> > > > boredom, deaths, and so on.
> > > >
> > > > Pretty simple stories, don't you think?
> > >
> > > Everything you mention is quite true, but was also
> > > valid in 2019 - and just looking at threads from then
> > > shows many names that are now missing.
> > COVID ?!?
> > > I'm certainly not blaming you for all,
> > You obviously are, just from the way you phrase it.
> > > but does it help to encourage participation to be
> > > called an idiot?
> > 1) Some people are actually idiots.
> >
> > 2) I see no reason to "encourage" or "discourage" or
> > "xyzcourage" anyone to do or not not do anything in
> > particular. It is a free open group, anyone can come
> > and go, anyone can say anything they want, etc...
> >
> > 3) IMHO it is a really bad idea to proselytize r.m.c.r.
> >
> > If you want to normalize behaviors and to
> > standardize language, we can have the
> > group moderated. One cannot have it
> > both ways.
> > > My suggestion is to just tone it down somewhat.
> > My suggestion is to take off your anonymous troll
> > mask and to tone down your lecturing and your
> > uncessant condescending pontification.
> > > You recently made an analogy relating to use of
> > > screen names - people at parties introduce themselves -
> > > and at parties folks don't generally insult each others...
>
> > Precisely because they are not wearing masks. As
> > long as you act as an anonymous troll you do not
> > deserve any respect. Trolls are not decent people.
> And yet, you constantly play the roll of a troll, Dan... and probably play with yourself as you do it... like I said before, different "strokes" for different folks...

Can I offer some advice for the sake of peace of mind?

The “loudest voices in the room” tend to dominate in newsgroups as well as in real life. The best possible way of dealing with that is to wish those people well, harbor no resentment towards them, and then see it as an opportunity to practice DETACHMENT from the situation. Stop participating, at least for a period of time. It is truly liberating to do so..

When people have continuous issues with others, particularly on the internet, they are not clearly seeing that they have an addiction which is the true cause of their unhappiness. An even harder truth to swallow is that when one has continuous issues with another, it actually is a fault within themselves they must deal with. Some will immediately reject this, but life has proven over and over that it’s true.

If you have known that for a long period of time, someone has not changed for the better, then chances are greater that in this lifetime, they will not - so why prolong frustrations that bring about harsh feelings? Learn to just let it go.

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 12:01:16 PM UTC+1, JohnGavin wrote:
>
> Can I offer some advice for the sake of peace of mind?
>

>
> If you have known that for a long period of time, someone has not changed for the better, then chances are greater that in this lifetime, they will not - so why prolong frustrations that bring about harsh feelings? Learn to just let it go.

I have no desire to change anyone, and I have a fairly happy and productive life.

I'd just like to be able to come here without being called an antisemite, this is a very bad thing to say, and it gives me no joy to see this guy marshalling forces to keep talking about me as an antisemite, just because I once said Isabelle Faust can play the violin quite well (instead of scratchy and off pitch, as this guy said).

In article <14bd6181-8a84-47fc-a5a5-7d64d242b60en@googlegroups.com>,
JohnGavin <dagdern@gmail.com> wrote:
>The "loudest voices in the room" tend to dominate in newsgroups as
>well as in real life.

(And some people will support them *because* they're the loudest
voices.)

But I feel compelled to note that there's a huge affective difference
between silent people physically in a room with loudmouths, and silent
people on a newsgroup with loudmouths. (Unless one is blind.)

On 12/17/22 10:38 AM, Herman wrote:
>
> I really applaud your post, Bob, being aware you two didn't hit it off, so to speak.
>
> Whenever I see a double bassist with a pony tail in the back of the orchestra, I think of MS / MForever.

Thanks, Herman. I will admit that I was frequently mad as a wet hen at
him for the noise, but his knowledge of music was second to none in this
group.

Bob Harper

On 12/17/22 8:00 PM, Herman wrote:
> On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 4:57:20 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 6:51:03 PM UTC-8, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer
>>> people here than before,
>> Some, if not all of the reasons should be pretty obvious.
>
>
> The reason is you're an evil hateful racist, spreading hatred.
> Funny, people don't like that.

Y0ou forgot the smiley, Herman :).

bob Harper

On Sunday, December 18, 2022 at 10:28:14 PM UTC+1, Bob Harper wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Funny, people don't like that.

> You forgot the smiley, Herman :).
>
Haha, I don't ever use smileys.
I do however always smile in the flesh, walking down the (old world) street.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 10:09:08 AM UTC-6, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 7:46:48 PM UTC-6, Herman wrote:
>>> On Saturday, December 17, 2022 at 2:04:50 AM UTC+1, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Who is/was Schaeffer?
>>>>
>>> MForever. Michael Schaeffer.
>>> A former double-bass player in German orchestras who moved to Southern Cal and worked as a tech..
>>> His comments were often superb, but, unfortunately, his temper was not always the greatest, exacerbated by the fact that he was German and thus was often called Nazi by Americans, and the fact that he was a highly knowledgable former musician. All professional music people have left this group pushed out by the know-it-alls.
>>> Alas he died a couple of years ago.
>> This is a bit of a cleanup job on Schaeffer, who was just as big a dick as anyone else here ever was, and who could dish "know-it-all" as much as the rest of them. (I'm talking about an attitude, not actual credentials.) To be clear, I enjoyed his company and benefitted from it when he wasn't angering people. Here's a thread where Don Tait notes how a comment by Schaeffer left him enraged for days. The idea that anyone who is still here pushed him out is nonsense. He made his own bed.
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/gi8lpKH4rQI/m/UwPrk3FqFpAJ
>>
>> It is unfortunately ironic that in a thread with no spoken hostility that I've seen people show up to comment on DK's "toxicity". He's the one who posted on-topic material. If you want civility, then recognize that there are appropriate times to post public judgments of character.
>
> I will add that it is perhaps distasteful that I am posting a public judgment of Michael now that he is no longer with us, but it isn't out of malice, just out of a wish to complicate the storyline of how certain (bad-ish) poeple made certain other (good-ish) people leave. I don't buy that. I don't have a simple story as to why there are fewer people here than before, and finding someone to blame would be part of a problem, not a solution. In conclusion, I'm sorry Michael won't have a chance to return to the group; I value and remember much of what he wrote here.

Well, I probably shouldn't say anything either, but I support your (mswd's)
effort to set the record straighter. A couple of comments: first, rather
triviallu, he went here by "Schaffer", not "Schaeffer". I don't know
whether there might have been an umlaut which he either dropped in
America or simply did noty/could not include in his messages.

But more significantly, his presence here was paradoxical. On the
one hand his contributions and forthright opinions on performances were
well-informed, valuable and very welcome. On the other hand he could
take off after other contributors, including several with considerable
music credentials who did not flaunt them, relentlessly, ridiculing
everything they posted. In more than one case the target either left
entirely or reduced their visibility here, a loss to rmcr. I sensed
a sort of malice from him that I do not sense in any of DK's insults to
other partiipants. I won't dwell on this, and I might of course be
wrong (but I'm not). I do regret his passing.
--
Al Eisner

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022, mswd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not one of my favorite pieces, but I just listened to the whole thing. The stretching-things-out manners are blindingly evident in the first few minutes, and while I had a few moments of feeling "this is perhaps going too far" I didn't from then on. I liked the way the broadening returned in the third movement, where in context it was quite effective.
>
> I am not of the belief that faster is necessarily better in this piece, and if I have not more more to say, it may be because I don't instantly warm to the choice of rich fluidity over musical variety that is the very nature of these pieces. But seemed like a winning performance to me.

Although this thread has gone somewhat astray, I'll assume there is still
a little interest in the originally-posted performance, and will go
out on a limb. (I also assume Dan is not armed with a saw.)

The pianist obviously has the technique, and - to the best of my ability
to evaluate it - his/her touch on the piano seemed fine. I did not
mind the agogics per se; in fact, the rubato substantially contributed
to what I found to be a beautiful and successful second movement.
Likewise its application to the lyrical portions of the finale. But I
felt the first movement was simply too slow. In particular, the main
(first) theme seemed plodding, elephantine, and the further slowing for
interludes acccentuated the problem. Whereas in the finale the slowing
made a nice contrast to what I felt was a reasonable overall flow and
tempo. Was it just that I grew more accustomed to the tempo variation
as the work went on? No, I relistened to the first movement and my
reaction did not change. All of this FWIW, which may not be much.

But it's certainly a different type of performance from what I am
used to, and worth hearing. (I have no skill in trying to identify
pianists.)
--
Al Eisner

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 2:17:35 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:

> But it's certainly a different type of performance from what I am
> used to, and worth hearing. (I have no skill in trying to identify
> pianists.)

It might be this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKrRRph2Tp8

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 3:16:53 PM UTC-8, pnal...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 2:17:35 PM UTC-8, Al Eisner wrote:
>
> > But it's certainly a different type of performance from what I am
> > used to, and worth hearing. (I have no skill in trying to identify
> > pianists.)
> It might be this one...
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKrRRph2Tp8

Nope.

Hint: the pianist won a prestigious top tier piano
competition straight out of high school, before
attending a conservatory.

This should hep you focus your search.

As I said so many times before, This is
not presented as a quiz. Understanding
how people listen to and experience
music helps one spot and recommend
performances others might enjoy.

dk

In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.2212191224450.24235@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
Al Eisner <eisner@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>I sensed a sort of malice from him that I do not sense in any of
>DK's insults to other partiipants.

Narcissism isn't malice per se, but it's not so great.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 5:06:57 AM UTC+1, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <alpine.LRH.2.00.2...@iris03.slac.stanford.edu>,
> Al Eisner <eis...@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >I sensed a sort of malice from him that I do not sense in any of
> >DK's insults to other partiipants.
> Narcissism isn't malice per se, but it's not so great.

These things are untrue. The malice is yours. This man is dead.
Yes, Schaffer was unpleasant when A called a Nazi, as happened a lot, or B confronted with people who were just amateur listeners and did not accept the views of someone who had actually played the music in good orchestras.
That did not make him malicious, narcissistic or a Nazi. Just not a good fit for what RMCR was decreasing into.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2022 at 5:34:12 AM UTC+1, Herman wrote:

This was not addressed to Todd, and I understand that the malice charge is mainly directed at a current, dominant contriibutor.