According to this:

- Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer.

https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html

On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
> According to this:
> > - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html

Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.

Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 4:20:09 PM UTC-8, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
> > According to this:
> > > - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
> > https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html
> Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.
>
> Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.

- Not even a collapsing world looks dark to a man who is about to make his fortune.

E. B. White

On 2/21/2023 7:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
>> According to this:
>>> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
>> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html
>
> Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.

Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
>
> Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.

Man is the only species endowed with the ability to choose good over evil, and I suppose the only species endowed with the ability to self-destruct. I don't know if the inability to avoid the latter reflects on intelligence.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 4:51:46 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Man is the only species endowed with
> the ability to choose good over evil,

You are insulting cats! ;-)

Who said "Everything I Need to Know, I
Learned From My Cat"? ;-)

dk

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 4:51:46 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/21/2023 7:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
> >> According to this:
> >>> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
> >> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html
> >
> > Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.
> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> >
> > Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.
> Man is the only species endowed with the ability to choose good over evil, and I suppose the only species endowed with the ability to self-destruct. I don't know if the inability to avoid the latter reflects on intelligence.

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2019/01/11/survive/#:~:text=and%20'real%E2%80%9D%3A-,Arthur%20C.,intelligence%20has%20any%20survival%20value.&text='It%20has%20yet%20to%20be,intelligence%20has%20any%20survival%20value.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/21/2023 7:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
> >> According to this:
> >>> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
> >> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html
> >
> > Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.
> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> >
It takes only one Putin to start a war killing hundreds of thousands.
Many other people would like to live peaceful lives and have families and save the planet.

> > Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.
> Man is the only species endowed with the ability to choose good over evil,

Even this is not true.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> >
This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.

On 2/22/2023 2:35 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 2/21/2023 7:20 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 21 February 2023 at 23:46:16 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
>>>> According to this:
>>>>> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer. >
>>>> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. Humans are too busy fighting wars and burning fossil fuels to remotely come near to the deadlines set by scientists.
>> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
>>>
> It takes only one Putin to start a war killing hundreds of thousands.
> Many other people would like to live peaceful lives and have families and save the planet.
>

Only you would take that literally.

>>> Welcome to a world of storms, floods, heat, famine and hordes of immigrants. All created for you by humans, the cleverest species on the planet.
>> Man is the only species endowed with the ability to choose good over evil,
>
> Even this is not true.

Really?

On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 08:02:39 UTC, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> > >
> This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.

Good point, together with other points you make. The demand for action on climate change seems to be most centred on the younger people who will be most affected and who have the energy to take action.

I don't agree that it's a question of "choosing good over evil". Humans are far more complicated than that psychologically. And additionally its a moralistic and typically monotheist way of thinking.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 12:02:39 AM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> > >
> This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.

Are you talking about 'weltschmerz'?

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 3:06:00 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 08:02:39 UTC, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> > > >
> > This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.

> Good point, together with other points you make.

Well, we forgot that Frank is the great humorist of this ng.

He only posts things as a joke.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 3:40:19 PM UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 12:02:39 AM UTC-8, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
> > > >
> > This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.
> Are you talking about 'weltschmerz'?

My God, don't you know a single thing? Weltschmerz typically is a young person's thing.
And even then Weltschmerz isn't bleak and cynical, it's romantic and sad-longing.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 3:48:56 PM UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 3:40:19 PM UTC+1, gggg gggg wrote:
> >
> > Are you talking about 'weltschmerz'?
> My God, don't you know a single thing? Weltschmerz typically is a young person's thing.
> And even then Weltschmerz isn't bleak and cynical, it's romantic and sad-longing.

Brezniev of Putin aren't suffering from Weltschmerz.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 3:46:16 PM UTC-8, gggg gggg wrote:
> According to this:
>
> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer.
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html

Could this drought have something to do with climate change?:

https://news.yahoo.com/low-tide-leaves-venice-canals-061430521.html

On 2/22/2023 9:05 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 08:02:39 UTC, Herman wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
>>>>
>> This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.
>
> Good point, together with other points you make. The demand for action on climate change seems to be most centred on the younger people who will be most affected and who have the energy to take action.
>

Let's just kill all the old farts.

> I don't agree that it's a question of "choosing good over evil". Humans are far more complicated than that psychologically. And additionally its a moralistic and typically monotheist way of >thinking.

I did not mean that activism on climate change was a matter of good vs. evil. The "monotheistic" concept of good vs. evil is not absolute, you know. There is plenty of room for relativism.

On 2/22/2023 9:46 AM, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 3:06:00 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 08:02:39 UTC, Herman wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 1:51:46 AM UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>> Which clearly means that humans are not worth saving in the first place.
>>>>>
>>> This is typically, in my experience, this late-in-life bleakness that makes it dangerous to have too many 70 plus people in charge of the world. It's what made the Soviet gerontocracy so dangerous.
>
>> Good point, together with other points you make.
>
> Well, we forgot that Frank is the great humorist of this ng.
>
> He only posts things as a joke.

Only sometimes, of course. When it strikes me.

You wouldn't recognize humor if it came with a sign.

On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 17:12:23 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
> You wouldn't recognize humor if it came with a sign.

I think that's very unfair on my friend Herman.

I always think he makes a lot of sense and he's well subtle enough for this ng.

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 8:42:25 PM UTC+1, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 22 February 2023 at 17:12:23 UTC, Frank Berger wrote:
> > You wouldn't recognize humor if it came with a sign.
> I think that's very unfair on my friend Herman.
>
> I always think he makes a lot of sense and he's well subtle enough for this ng.

Frank was just kidding, obviously.

Climate litigation is picking up speed. Exciting stuff!

In 2017, San Francisco, Oakland and other California coastal communities sued multiple fossil-fuel companies for rising sea levels.
In 2018, the city of New York announced that it is taking five fossil fuel firms (BP, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips and Shell) to federal court due to their contribution to climate change (from which the city is already suffering)
In 2020, Charleston, South Carolina, followed a similar strategy.
2019. Successful lawsuit against the government in the Netherlands.

Many more lawsuits starting in 2023, several challenging the "greenwashing" of fossil fuel companies.

On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 3:46:16 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> According to this:
>
> - Nature is changing. Today's hurricanes tend to be stronger, wetter, and less predictable than those of the last century. They hold more moisture, speed up more quickly, and stay together longer.
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-climate-exodus-already-begun-110000919.html

Bill Gates on cimate c.:

https://news.yahoo.com/bill-gates-climate-change-criticizes-impoverished-lifestyle-idea-200125212.html

On Friday, 10 March 2023 at 00:24:52 UTC, gggg gggg wrote:
> Bill Gates on cimate c.:
>
> https://news.yahoo.com/bill-gates-climate-change-criticizes-impoverished-lifestyle-idea-200125212.html

Bill Gates is one of the good guys but maybe he doesn't want to give up meat. But there's nothing wrong with pointing out that being a vegetarian is much better for the planet. It will probably have to come anyway - as food gets scarcer there will be less of an incentive to give it to animals, pets included.

At the end of the day he's just another rich American who won't entertain the idea of an "impoverished lifestyle". Others have to.

Op vrijdag 10 maart 2023 om 12:13:14 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:

> At the end of the day he's just another rich American who won't entertain the idea of an "impoverished lifestyle". Others have to.

"Impoverished lifestyle". Is there a context wherein this could have a positive connotation?

Henk

On 3/10/2023 10:24 AM, HT wrote:
> Op vrijdag 10 maart 2023 om 12:13:14 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
>
>> At the end of the day he's just another rich American who won't entertain the idea of an "impoverished lifestyle". Others have to.
>
> "Impoverished lifestyle". Is there a context wherein this could have a positive connotation?
>
> Henk

You mean you wouldn't wish "an impoverished life style" on the human race for the next generation or two to avoid mass extinction?

Op vrijdag 10 maart 2023 om 17:40:43 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:
> On 3/10/2023 10:24 AM, HT wrote:
> > Op vrijdag 10 maart 2023 om 12:13:14 UTC+1 schreef Andy Evans:
> >
> >> At the end of the day he's just another rich American who won't entertain the idea of an "impoverished lifestyle". Others have to.
> >
> > "Impoverished lifestyle". Is there a context wherein this could have a positive connotation?
> >
> > Henk
> You mean you wouldn't wish "an impoverished life style" on the human race for the next generation or two to avoid mass extinction?

An "impoverished lifestyle" is said in the context of our current world-view: change makes us poorer. The predictions are that no change means even more uncontrolled change. No matter what we do or don't do, we become poorer.

Is there another - more positive - way to look at our situation?

I have read some suggestions, but am not impressed. The most reassuring one was that we don't have to change to save nature. Nature, in whatever form, will continue to exist. Homo sapiens will not - no matter how much we change.

Henk