Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/
--
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My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <sd3vqb$glq$1@reader1.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
>Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
>https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/

"The Still, Small Voice of Trumpets" is the one I immediately
thought of, on seeing the Subject line.

It's also the only one of the five I've read.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:45:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <sd3vqb$glq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
> >https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/
> "The Still, Small Voice of Trumpets" is the one I immediately
> thought of, on seeing the Subject line.
>
> It's also the only one of the five I've read.

Really? I would have thought De Camp was de rigueur.

I would say the same about McCaffrey if her name was de Caffrey.

I love the cover and blurb on the edition James gives. Mine only has a picture of
one-armed people playing trumpets. His warns about young people with radical
ideas and strange new music. Guaranteed to get sales in 1970.

William Hyde

In article <a8551318-2eea-4336-87d1-69ce5bf1785dn@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:45:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <sd3vqb$glq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
>>
>>https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/
>> "The Still, Small Voice of Trumpets" is the one I immediately
>> thought of, on seeing the Subject line.
>>
>> It's also the only one of the five I've read.
>
>Really? I would have thought De Camp was de rigueur.

I've read a lot of the Viagens Interplanetarias stories, but I
drew a blank on the one James mentions.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <qwIKrt.10xy@kithrup.com>,
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) wrote:

> In article <a8551318-2eea-4336-87d1-69ce5bf1785dn@googlegroups.com>,
> William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 10:45:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <sd3vqb$glq$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
> >>
> >>https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interfer
> >>ence-directives/
> >> "The Still, Small Voice of Trumpets" is the one I immediately
> >> thought of, on seeing the Subject line.
> >>
> >> It's also the only one of the five I've read.
> >
> >Really? I would have thought De Camp was de rigueur.
>
> I've read a lot of the Viagens Interplanetarias stories, but I
> drew a blank on the one James mentions.

BTW, it was first published in the November 1949 issue of _Astounding_
(the one that was "reviewed" in a gag letter the year before), an issue
with stories by 5 future SFWA Grand Masters plus Theodore Sturgeon who
would had been one if he hadn't died at age 67.

--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
�-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 7:47:59 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/

Again the delightful use of puns, what with Captain Kirk of Star Trek
acknowledging the Prime Directive mainly in the breach.

However, I remember reading a short story, which I don't remember
well enough to name, that went like this:

An alien race metamorphoses like butterflies do. But the caterpillar
stage is able to breed.

They have a custom of preventing metamorphosis by near-asphyxiation,
which leaves people imbeciles after the age of metamorpohosis. A
member of this race asks a visiting Earth scientist to shield him from this...
and the tug on his emotions prevails, although there's a non-interference
principle.

So he doesn't have heavy armament to clean up the mess when the
reason for the alien custom is revealed: after metamorphosis,
instead of studying science and mathematics, the butterfly stage
goes and ravages the alien village.

Now, a story like that shows that there is an actual good reason
for having a Prime Directive, whereas most stories about the matter
tend to make me root against it: of *course* aliens should descend
on Earth, and destroy the tyrannical regimes in places like China,
Russia, and North Korea!

John Savard

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 12:15:34 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> However, I remember reading a short story, which I don't remember
> well enough to name, that went like this:
>
> An alien race metamorphoses like butterflies do. But the caterpillar
> stage is able to breed.

If someone wishes to take this as a YASID, I should at least give
all the clues which I do remember. It appeared in Omni.

John Savard

On Mon, 19 Jul 2021 23:15:32 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 7:47:59 AM UTC-6, James Nicoll wrote:
>> Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
>> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/
>
>Again the delightful use of puns, what with Captain Kirk of Star Trek
>acknowledging the Prime Directive mainly in the breach.
>
>However, I remember reading a short story, which I don't remember
>well enough to name, that went like this:
>
>An alien race metamorphoses like butterflies do. But the caterpillar
>stage is able to breed.
>
>They have a custom of preventing metamorphosis by near-asphyxiation,
>which leaves people imbeciles after the age of metamorpohosis. A
>member of this race asks a visiting Earth scientist to shield him from this...
>and the tug on his emotions prevails, although there's a non-interference
>principle.
>
>So he doesn't have heavy armament to clean up the mess when the
>reason for the alien custom is revealed: after metamorphosis,
>instead of studying science and mathematics, the butterfly stage
>goes and ravages the alien village.
>
>Now, a story like that shows that there is an actual good reason
>for having a Prime Directive, whereas most stories about the matter
>tend to make me root against it: of *course* aliens should descend
>on Earth, and destroy the tyrannical regimes in places like China,
>Russia, and North Korea!

Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
Directive.

On Monday, July 19, 2021 at 9:47:59 AM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/

> The only reason [Arkady and Boris Strugatsky’s “Hard to Be a God” is]
> in a footnote is because the field agents stick to the rules and this is
> about books where they do not.

I think it could be plausibly argued that the mountain of corpses at the
end of the book counts as not sticking to the non-interference rules.

On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
> Directive.

But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
as well as technologically!

John Savard

On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>> Directive.
>
>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>as well as technologically!

And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?

In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>> Directive.
>>
>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>as well as technologically!
>
>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?

As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <b73f6964-3aa4-4307-890e-3c39331b5c5an@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>> Directive.
>
>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>as well as technologically!

/shrug

If ever we meet any, we'll find out if he was right.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> schrieb:
> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>>> Directive.
>>>
>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>>as well as technologically!
>>
>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>
> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._

That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.

Blood-sucking aliens, indeed...

In article <sd9djv$aou$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> schrieb:
>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>>>> Directive.
>>>>
>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>>>as well as technologically!
>>>
>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>>
>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
>
>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.

I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:24:38 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <sd9djv$aou$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> schrieb:
>>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>>>>> Directive.
>>>>>
>>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>>>>as well as technologically!
>>>>
>>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>>>
>>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
>>
>>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.
>
>I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.

So ... the point of HG Wells' /War of the Worlds/ was ... that the
Colonizers were destroyed by native micro-organisms?

So, when the Empires were dissolved and the various subjugated nations
freed, it was because all the Europeans ... were dead from disease?

I'm sorry, but this no-doubt very well established intellectual
literary theory doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>> Directive.
>
>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>as well as technologically!

In his later works, he was quite insistent that the human race would
all be vegetarians in the future.

Interestingly, for a science fiction author he apparently never
thought of the possibility of creating meat products artificially,
with no actual animal being involved. Well, except as a cell donor.

Or (AFAIK) "plant-based meat", something at least one of our local
markets is using to group veggy-based meat substitutes under.

They, of course, mean "veggie-based". At least I hope so; Euell
Gibbons may have eaten a pine tree, but I don't think a meat
substitute is ever likely to be make from one.

(I looked "ever eat a pine tree" up to get the correct spelling for
the name; while I don't doubt you /could/ eat a pine cone, you can
pretty much eat /anything/. The question isn't whether or not you can
eat it; the question is, will it kill you?)
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <dshgfgh1qov5ijnt1jjjsf03pbbm3iqbuj@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:24:38 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <sd9djv$aou$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>>Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> schrieb:
>>>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>>>>>> Directive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>>>>>as well as technologically!
>>>>>
>>>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>>>>
>>>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
>>>
>>>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.
>>
>>I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.
>
>So ... the point of HG Wells' /War of the Worlds/ was ... that the
>Colonizers were destroyed by native micro-organisms?
>
>So, when the Empires were dissolved and the various subjugated nations
>freed, it was because all the Europeans ... were dead from disease?
>
>I'm sorry, but this no-doubt very well established intellectual
>literary theory doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Well, that's not what destroyed the empires, but that's the reason
why the African & Indian colonies were never colonies of settlement
like the Americas, Australia, NZ etc. The "tropical diseases" were
generally fatal for Europeans.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

In article <dshgfgh1qov5ijnt1jjjsf03pbbm3iqbuj@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:24:38 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <sd9djv$aou$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>>Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> schrieb:
>>>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2i4f4ptcnqsj25skvi@4ax.com>,
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>>>>><jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>>>>>>> Directive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>>>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>>>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>>>>>>as well as technologically!
>>>>>
>>>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>>>>
>>>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
>>>
>>>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.
>>
>>I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.
>
>So ... the point of HG Wells' /War of the Worlds/ was ... that the
>Colonizers were destroyed by native micro-organisms?
>
>So, when the Empires were dissolved and the various subjugated nations
>freed, it was because all the Europeans ... were dead from disease?
>
>I'm sorry, but this no-doubt very well established intellectual
>literary theory doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

I don't think it was intended to be a point-for-point allegory.
It was an exercise in "How would you feel if it happened to you?"

And the death by microorganisms may have corresponded to nothing
at all in real-world history, but simply a way of getting out of
an otherwise ineradicable infestation. Otherwise, there would
have been no humans left to tell the story.

One of the things I've noticed about early SF is that its authors
apparently felt the need of a work-around to explain how the
author got the data. The Time Traveler came back to the present
to tell his story. I forget which early work of SF began with an
introduction titled something like "The Man Who Remembered [or
was it "Dreamed"?] the Future." Was it Williamson's _The Legion
of Space_? i

Wells's _The Shape of Things to Come_ is written in the form of a
third volume of his _Outline of History_. But that was published
in 1933, whereas _The Time Machine came out in 1895; perhaps by
1933 Wells not longer felt the need to explain how he "learned"
the story.

And here's a YASID: What story begins with the sentence "I have
no intention of explaining how I learned this story"?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Wednesday, 21 July 2021 at 18:00:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <dshgfgh1qov5ijnt1...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:24:38 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <sd9djv$aou$1...@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
> >>Thomas Koenig <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
> >>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> schrieb:
> >>>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2...@4ax.com>,
> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
> >>>>><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
> >>>>>>> Directive.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
> >>>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
> >>>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
> >>>>>>as well as technologically!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
> >>>>
> >>>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
> >>>
> >>>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.
> >>
> >>I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.
> >
> >So ... the point of HG Wells' /War of the Worlds/ was ... that the
> >Colonizers were destroyed by native micro-organisms?
> >
> >So, when the Empires were dissolved and the various subjugated nations
> >freed, it was because all the Europeans ... were dead from disease?
> >
> >I'm sorry, but this no-doubt very well established intellectual
> >literary theory doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
> I don't think it was intended to be a point-for-point allegory.
> It was an exercise in "How would you feel if it happened to you?"

It can also be placed in the "invasion literature"
tradition, here seen as mainly a British fear.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds#Relation_to_invasion_literature>

But the page first says "Wells said that the plot
arose from a discussion with his brother Frank
about the catastrophic effect of the British on
indigenous Tasmanians. What would happen,
he wondered, if Martians did to Britain what the
British had done to the Tasmanians?"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians>
(but you can probably guess).

> And the death by microorganisms may have corresponded to nothing
> at all in real-world history, but simply a way of getting out of
> an otherwise ineradicable infestation. Otherwise, there would
> have been no humans left to tell the story.

Or at least it would be hard to find a publisher.
Unless the folks back on Mars appreciated it.

> One of the things I've noticed about early SF is that its authors
> apparently felt the need of a work-around to explain how the
> author got the data. The Time Traveler came back to the present
> to tell his story. I forget which early work of SF began with an
> introduction titled something like "The Man Who Remembered [or
> was it "Dreamed"?] the Future." Was it Williamson's _The Legion
> of Space_? i
>
> Wells's _The Shape of Things to Come_ is written in the form of a
> third volume of his _Outline of History_. But that was published
> in 1933, whereas _The Time Machine came out in 1895; perhaps by
> 1933 Wells not longer felt the need to explain how he "learned"
> the story.

Mais oui, someone is dreaming it. Dreaming about
a future history textbook.

> And here's a YASID: What story begins with the sentence "I have
> no intention of explaining how I learned this story"?

I haven't checked, but I think Isaac Asimov's
"Pate de Fois Gras" does describe a mystery in
atomic reactions in 20th century America, with
insistence that scientist characters in the story
are fictional but also that they really would like
readers to send in an explanation.

In article <fc4a67e4-cc51-489a-8719-7a4511c04e26n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, 21 July 2021 at 18:00:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <dshgfgh1qov5ijnt1...@4ax.com>,
>> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 15:24:38 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> >Heydt) wrote:
>> >
>> >>In article <sd9djv$aou$1...@newsreader4.netcologne.de>,
>> >>Thomas Koenig <tko...@netcologne.de> wrote:
>> >>>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> schrieb:
>> >>>> In article <0arffgdgku8ij2hr2...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>> J. Clarke <jclarke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>On Wed, 21 Jul 2021 02:00:57 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
>> >>>>><jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>On Tuesday, July 20, 2021 at 5:38:17 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Be careful what you wish for. The Klingons don't have a Prime
>> >>>>>>> Directive.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>But as Arthur C. Clarke has clearly explained, aggressive species
>> >>>>>>destroy themselves before going into space; any advanced race
>> >>>>>>that reaches Earth will be highly benevolent, morally ahead of us
>> >>>>>>as well as technologically!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>And he based that on experience with _how_ many ETs?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As many as Wells had when he wrote _War of the WOrlds._
>> >>>
>> >>>That was a bitter satire on European colonianism.
>> >>
>> >>I know it was. But it did not stem from any experience with ETs.
>> >
>> >So ... the point of HG Wells' /War of the Worlds/ was ... that the
>> >Colonizers were destroyed by native micro-organisms?
>> >
>> >So, when the Empires were dissolved and the various subjugated nations
>> >freed, it was because all the Europeans ... were dead from disease?
>> >
>> >I'm sorry, but this no-doubt very well established intellectual
>> >literary theory doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.
>> I don't think it was intended to be a point-for-point allegory.
>> It was an exercise in "How would you feel if it happened to you?"
>
>It can also be placed in the "invasion literature"
>tradition, here seen as mainly a British fear.
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds#Relation_to_invasion_literature>
>
>But the page first says "Wells said that the plot
>arose from a discussion with his brother Frank
>about the catastrophic effect of the British on
>indigenous Tasmanians. What would happen,
>he wondered, if Martians did to Britain what the
>British had done to the Tasmanians?"
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians>
>(but you can probably guess).
>
>> And the death by microorganisms may have corresponded to nothing
>> at all in real-world history, but simply a way of getting out of
>> an otherwise ineradicable infestation. Otherwise, there would
>> have been no humans left to tell the story.
>
>Or at least it would be hard to find a publisher.
>Unless the folks back on Mars appreciated it.
>
>> One of the things I've noticed about early SF is that its authors
>> apparently felt the need of a work-around to explain how the
>> author got the data. The Time Traveler came back to the present
>> to tell his story. I forget which early work of SF began with an
>> introduction titled something like "The Man Who Remembered [or
>> was it "Dreamed"?] the Future." Was it Williamson's _The Legion
>> of Space_? i
>>
>> Wells's _The Shape of Things to Come_ is written in the form of a
>> third volume of his _Outline of History_. But that was published
>> in 1933, whereas _The Time Machine came out in 1895; perhaps by
>> 1933 Wells not longer felt the need to explain how he "learned"
>> the story.
>
>Mais oui, someone is dreaming it. Dreaming about
>a future history textbook.
>
>> And here's a YASID: What story begins with the sentence "I have
>> no intention of explaining how I learned this story"?
>
>I haven't checked, but I think Isaac Asimov's
>"Pate de Fois Gras" does describe a mystery in
>atomic reactions in 20th century America, with
>insistence that scientist characters in the story
>are fictional but also that they really would like
>readers to send in an explanation.

Ah, yes. "This is pure fiction, it never happened, but can
anyone figure out how to solve imaginary-our nonexistent
problem?"

And several readers wrote in with the appropriate answer.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

>And here's a YASID: What story begins with the sentence "I have
>no intention of explaining how I learned this story"?

Would that start with "My Dear Wormwood"?

On 2021-07-21, Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:

[Arthur C. Clarke]
> In his later works, he was quite insistent that the human race would
> all be vegetarians in the future.
>
> Interestingly, for a science fiction author he apparently never
> thought of the possibility of creating meat products artificially,
> with no actual animal being involved. Well, except as a cell donor.

I have a vague memory that he did. Not as in tissue cultures, but
some other pseudo-meat. Weren't they milking whales for this purpose
in... _Dolphin Island_?

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de

On 7/19/2021 8:47 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
> Five SF Stories About Disobeying Non-Interference Directives
> https://www.tor.com/2021/07/19/five-sf-stories-about-disobeying-non-interference-directives/

I think that I read "Decision at Doona" in the distant past but am not sure.

Lynn

In article <ry_JI.21157$7H7.2746@fx42.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
>djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>
>>And here's a YASID: What story begins with the sentence "I have
>>no intention of explaining how I learned this story"?
>
>Would that start with "My Dear Wormwood"?

Maybe. I've already had to get Hal to stand guard at the fiction
room door once today, don't feel like doing it again (he's in the
middle of a game). I've already explained about the cats, whose
greatest ambition is to get into the book rooms where they are
not supposed to be.

And here's another question: How can I get ISFDB to search for
the Sturgeon story "The [Widget], the [Wadget], and Boff"? I
suspect the square brackets are throwing the software off.
Ahasuerus, are you around today?

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/