On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:00:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
> it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
> they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
> get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.

Hmm. Still, whatever the situation, the problem is keeping them
out of the hallway, so that they will not be near the door, and I was
thinking some sort of improvised door to the hallway, sutable to
rental accommodation, could be rigged up without excessive work.

Your description here, though, makes it sound like a simpler solution
is possible. On the way out, just open the door by half an inch,
too small for the cats to get in. Look out to see if the way is clear.

If it is not, open the door just enough to go through yourself, so that
you are the one standing guard...

No doubt you've already thought of this, and there are good reasons
why you cannot make this work.

Another possibility: put a chair inside the room, so you can sit and
wait for a while to leave. Have available a means of communication
between yourself and Hal.

Rather than Hal tearing himself away from his computer to stand guard
against the cats for an extended period of time, once you've notified
him you're ready to leave, then, when he comes to a natural break in
his activity on the computer, he goes to the door and lets you know
he is there, so you can leave.

But again, this is so obvious, I must assume you've already thought of
it and have a good reason why it would not really work.

John Savard

On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 6:16:34 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:

> Kruschev wanted to bury us in consumer goods. The Chinese actually
> pulled it off.

But only with help from Ronald Reagan!

John Savard

On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 6:55:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> For anyone else lacking experience with cats, please note that
> wherever a cat's head can go, its body can follow. They have no
> collarbones.

I was thinking of limiting the space under the door to a value
where at most a toe of the cat's paw might be able to go. Despite
not having a knowledge of feline veterinary anatomy, a friend of
mine has a cat.

John Savard

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 12:16:07 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:

> But again, this is so obvious, I must assume you've already thought of
> it and have a good reason why it would not really work.

If the number of cats involved is _two_, an even more obvious idea
suggests itself. Before a voyage to the book collection... oh, yes, you
mentioned the linen closet above, and you do have physical limitations
that preclude you bending over to pick up a cat.

So apparently none of the existing doors in the household lends itself
well to temporary sequestration of your cats.

Not knowing the layout of your domicile, I don't know if this could be
made to work... relocating the *feeding dish* for each of the cats to
somewhere where the door could be closed when they both eat at the
same time to permit visits to the library at least at some times.

John Savard

On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 23:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:

>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 6:16:34 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Kruschev wanted to bury us in consumer goods. The Chinese actually
>> pulled it off.
>
>But only with help from Ronald Reagan!

This is true. I wonder if we could have capitalized the Soviet Union?
Just as well though, theirs was a proselytizing religion. The Chinese
tend to believe that nobody else deserves theirs.

On 24/07/2021 06:55, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <1q7rsh-75o.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
> Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>> On 23/07/2021 23:13, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <333088f0-d53f-4318-8fc0-ad92d83d6360n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:25:04 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If they were actually dictating requirements one would expect the
>>>>> quality of the goods produced to be higher. Japan was the place tht
>>>>> dictated requirements.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, Soviet Russia was the place well known for having quotas
>>>> of making X number of tons of alarm clocks, without much concern
>>>> about whether or not they worked.
>>>>
>>>> Which was an ineffective way to run the economy, but presumably it
>>>> was only applied to consumer goods, not military items.
>>>
>>> There was an old joke, from the fifties IIRC. A Russian is
>>> hauled in by the police for buying and using imported, instead of
>>> domestic, matches.
>>>
>>> His defense: "It is true that I use foreign matches--but only to
>>> light our People's matches!:
>>>
>>> And let's not forget the Yablotchka.
>>>
>> Okay, I'll bite: "Little Apple"???
>>
> It was a Russian knockoff of an early Apple model; I forget its
> official name. It didn't work as well as the original, either,
> which (IMO) is a very low bar.
>
Ah, thanx, I wonder how many of the Russians I've worked with over the
decades started out on something like that?

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
Waiting for a new signature to suggest itself...

In article <25e5f3fc-b5a8-46a7-a5ad-553c12757600n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:00:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
>> it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
>> they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
>> get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.
>
>Hmm. Still, whatever the situation, the problem is keeping them
>out of the hallway, so that they will not be near the door, and I was
>thinking some sort of improvised door to the hallway, sutable to
>rental accommodation, could be rigged up without excessive work.

No, it couldn't.
>
>Your description here, though, makes it sound like a simpler solution
>is possible. On the way out, just open the door by half an inch,
>too small for the cats to get in. Look out to see if the way is clear.

I do that, if I've been so incautious as to go into the room
without get Hal on guard first. But the way is never clear, but
it may provide me with the opportunity to call Hal to the scene.
I say "may", because I've already mentioned that the acoustics of
the apartment are such that no sound in the main room can get
into the other rooms without shouting, and vice versa.
>
>If it is not, open the door just enough to go through yourself, so that
>you are the one standing guard...

/helpless laughter

You've never had cats, have you?

Without going into details, if I open the door by four inches,
the cats can (and will) slip through long before I can get out.
>
>No doubt you've already thought of this, and there are good reasons
>why you cannot make this work.
>
See above.

>Another possibility: put a chair inside the room,

There isn't room.

so you can sit and
>wait for a while to leave. Have available a means of communication
>between yourself and Hal.

What means of communication? A walkie-talkie? I do have a dumb
phone, but I don't keep it on my person; I've had it for four
years now and I've used it twice.
>
>Rather than Hal tearing himself away from his computer to stand guard
>against the cats for an extended period of time, once you've notified
>him you're ready to leave, then, when he comes to a natural break in
>his activity on the computer, he goes to the door and lets you know
>he is there, so you can leave.

>But again, this is so obvious, I must assume you've already thought of
>it and have a good reason why it would not really work.

For once, you're right, and I have, and it wouldn't.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <a3977542-3d9d-4da6-beef-9aac6766db3fn@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 12:16:07 AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
>
>> But again, this is so obvious, I must assume you've already thought of
>> it and have a good reason why it would not really work.
>
>If the number of cats involved is _two_, an even more obvious idea
>suggests itself. Before a voyage to the book collection... oh, yes, you
>mentioned the linen closet above, and you do have physical limitations
>that preclude you bending over to pick up a cat.

True.
>
>So apparently none of the existing doors in the household lends itself
>well to temporary sequestration of your cats.
>
>Not knowing the layout of your domicile, I don't know if this could be
>made to work... relocating the *feeding dish* for each of the cats to
>somewhere where the door could be closed when they both eat at the
>same time to permit visits to the library at least at some times.

All the cat's gear is in the bathroom, that being the only room
in the apartment with a waterproof floor. And when I go into the
bathroom, they follow me in. But if I start to leave, they're
out the door again before I can get out, and since the latch on
the door is not the strongest, they can claw it open.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <d04029ad-856a-43fa-93c8-60aa7910a690n@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 6:55:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> For anyone else lacking experience with cats, please note that
>> wherever a cat's head can go, its body can follow. They have no
>> collarbones.
>
>I was thinking of limiting the space under the door to a value
>where at most a toe of the cat's paw might be able to go. Despite
>not having a knowledge of feline veterinary anatomy, a friend of
>mine has a cat.

Well, talk to your friend. Visit your friend and become
acquainted with the cat. Run some of your cat-sequestering ideas
past your friend, which will provoke much healthy merriment.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <clatsh-ifh.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>On 24/07/2021 06:55, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <1q7rsh-75o.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
>> Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
>>> On 23/07/2021 23:13, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>> In article <333088f0-d53f-4318-8fc0-ad92d83d6360n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:25:04 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If they were actually dictating requirements one would expect the
>>>>>> quality of the goods produced to be higher. Japan was the place tht
>>>>>> dictated requirements.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, Soviet Russia was the place well known for having quotas
>>>>> of making X number of tons of alarm clocks, without much concern
>>>>> about whether or not they worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which was an ineffective way to run the economy, but presumably it
>>>>> was only applied to consumer goods, not military items.
>>>>
>>>> There was an old joke, from the fifties IIRC. A Russian is
>>>> hauled in by the police for buying and using imported, instead of
>>>> domestic, matches.
>>>>
>>>> His defense: "It is true that I use foreign matches--but only to
>>>> light our People's matches!:
>>>>
>>>> And let's not forget the Yablotchka.
>>>>
>>> Okay, I'll bite: "Little Apple"???
>>>
>> It was a Russian knockoff of an early Apple model; I forget its
>> official name. It didn't work as well as the original, either,
>> which (IMO) is a very low bar.
>>
>Ah, thanx, I wonder how many of the Russians I've worked with over the
>decades started out on something like that?
>
About that, I have no information. You might search the web for
"Russian Apple imitation" or something. I don't know whether
searching "Yablotchka", which was never its official name, would
yield anything.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:55:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <25e5f3fc-b5a8-46a7-a5ad-553c12757600n@googlegroups.com>,
>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:00:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>
>>> No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
>>> it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
>>> they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
>>> get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.
>>
>>Hmm. Still, whatever the situation, the problem is keeping them
>>out of the hallway, so that they will not be near the door, and I was
>>thinking some sort of improvised door to the hallway, sutable to
>>rental accommodation, could be rigged up without excessive work.
>
>No, it couldn't.

I wish I lived closer to you. My Dad was a SeaBee--he taught me
things. There's very likely a way but somebody good at rigging stuff
with wood needs to eyeball the situation to figure out what it is.

>>Your description here, though, makes it sound like a simpler solution
>>is possible. On the way out, just open the door by half an inch,
>>too small for the cats to get in. Look out to see if the way is clear.
>
>I do that, if I've been so incautious as to go into the room
>without get Hal on guard first. But the way is never clear, but
>it may provide me with the opportunity to call Hal to the scene.
>I say "may", because I've already mentioned that the acoustics of
>the apartment are such that no sound in the main room can get
>into the other rooms without shouting, and vice versa.

I doubt Hal would agree to such a thing, but a couple of Echo Dots can
be configured to make a dandy intercom.

>>If it is not, open the door just enough to go through yourself, so that
>>you are the one standing guard...
>
>/helpless laughter
>
>You've never had cats, have you?
>
>Without going into details, if I open the door by four inches,
>the cats can (and will) slip through long before I can get out.

And if you try to move quickle enough to prevent that you either (a)
trip over a cat and bust your butt or (b) kick a cat across the room
or (c) do both.

Not to mention that once the door is open 2 inches there's likely to
be a cat's paw in it.

>>No doubt you've already thought of this, and there are good reasons
>>why you cannot make this work.
>>
>See above.
>
>>Another possibility: put a chair inside the room,
>
>There isn't room.
>
> so you can sit and
>>wait for a while to leave. Have available a means of communication
>>between yourself and Hal.
>
>What means of communication? A walkie-talkie? I do have a dumb
>phone, but I don't keep it on my person; I've had it for four
>years now and I've used it twice.
>>
>>Rather than Hal tearing himself away from his computer to stand guard
>>against the cats for an extended period of time, once you've notified
>>him you're ready to leave, then, when he comes to a natural break in
>>his activity on the computer, he goes to the door and lets you know
>>he is there, so you can leave.
>
>>But again, this is so obvious, I must assume you've already thought of
>>it and have a good reason why it would not really work.
>
>For once, you're right, and I have, and it wouldn't.

In article <1t4ofgl5d4327qn57rsta9jf0tb4bj5ruh@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:55:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <25e5f3fc-b5a8-46a7-a5ad-553c12757600n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:00:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
>>>> it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
>>>> they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
>>>> get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.
>>>
>>>Hmm. Still, whatever the situation, the problem is keeping them
>>>out of the hallway, so that they will not be near the door, and I was
>>>thinking some sort of improvised door to the hallway, sutable to
>>>rental accommodation, could be rigged up without excessive work.
>>
>>No, it couldn't.
>
>I wish I lived closer to you. My Dad was a SeaBee--he taught me
>things. There's very likely a way but somebody good at rigging stuff
>with wood needs to eyeball the situation to figure out what it is.
>
>>>Your description here, though, makes it sound like a simpler solution
>>>is possible. On the way out, just open the door by half an inch,
>>>too small for the cats to get in. Look out to see if the way is clear.
>>
>>I do that, if I've been so incautious as to go into the room
>>without get Hal on guard first. But the way is never clear, but
>>it may provide me with the opportunity to call Hal to the scene.
>>I say "may", because I've already mentioned that the acoustics of
>>the apartment are such that no sound in the main room can get
>>into the other rooms without shouting, and vice versa.
>
>I doubt Hal would agree to such a thing, but a couple of Echo Dots can
>be configured to make a dandy intercom.

/googles Echo Dots

Ewwwwwwww.

Alexa. No way. Every word spoken between us would be
transmitted, not indeed to the government as might be the problem
elsewhere, but to people who want to sell us (frequently
nonexistent) stuff.

>>>If it is not, open the door just enough to go through yourself, so that
>>>you are the one standing guard...
>>
>>/helpless laughter
>>
>>You've never had cats, have you?
>>
>>Without going into details, if I open the door by four inches,
>>the cats can (and will) slip through long before I can get out.
>
>And if you try to move quickle enough to prevent that you either (a)
>trip over a cat and bust your butt or (b) kick a cat across the room
>or (c) do both.

You know not how truly you speak! I've had CFS since 1984 (when
I was first diagnosed, they were calling it Chronic Epstein-Barr,
which turns out it isn't). But last October it got worse, and
since then I have lost my balance and fallen nineteen times: I've
been keeping count. Never from tripping over a cat, though. If
I land on my butt, which is the usual outcome, I don't get hurt,
but I need one (or preferably two) strong adults to lift me to my
feet again. But if I fall in some other direction, I bend my
toes backward, and they take about ten days to heal.

So if I want to get out of bed to head to the bathroom or the
book room or anywhere, I have to be withing reach of some
bookcase or other piece of furniture to hold onto. And if I've
munged my toes again, I have to take short shuffling steps, and
each one hurts. (Because the normal human walk involves putting
the foot down and then pushing off with the toes.)
>
>Not to mention that once the door is open 2 inches there's likely to
>be a cat's paw in it.

Nose, not paw, but the principle is the same.
>
[more unworkable suggestions shnipped]

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 14:25:07 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <1t4ofgl5d4327qn57rsta9jf0tb4bj5ruh@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 12:55:30 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <25e5f3fc-b5a8-46a7-a5ad-553c12757600n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:00:03 PM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
>>>>> it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
>>>>> they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
>>>>> get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.
>>>>
>>>>Hmm. Still, whatever the situation, the problem is keeping them
>>>>out of the hallway, so that they will not be near the door, and I was
>>>>thinking some sort of improvised door to the hallway, sutable to
>>>>rental accommodation, could be rigged up without excessive work.
>>>
>>>No, it couldn't.
>>
>>I wish I lived closer to you. My Dad was a SeaBee--he taught me
>>things. There's very likely a way but somebody good at rigging stuff
>>with wood needs to eyeball the situation to figure out what it is.
>>
>>>>Your description here, though, makes it sound like a simpler solution
>>>>is possible. On the way out, just open the door by half an inch,
>>>>too small for the cats to get in. Look out to see if the way is clear.
>>>
>>>I do that, if I've been so incautious as to go into the room
>>>without get Hal on guard first. But the way is never clear, but
>>>it may provide me with the opportunity to call Hal to the scene.
>>>I say "may", because I've already mentioned that the acoustics of
>>>the apartment are such that no sound in the main room can get
>>>into the other rooms without shouting, and vice versa.
>>
>>I doubt Hal would agree to such a thing, but a couple of Echo Dots can
>>be configured to make a dandy intercom.
>
>/googles Echo Dots
>
>Ewwwwwwww.
>
>Alexa. No way. Every word spoken between us would be
>transmitted, not indeed to the government as might be the problem
>elsewhere, but to people who want to sell us (frequently
>nonexistent) stuff.
>
>>>>If it is not, open the door just enough to go through yourself, so that
>>>>you are the one standing guard...
>>>
>>>/helpless laughter
>>>
>>>You've never had cats, have you?
>>>
>>>Without going into details, if I open the door by four inches,
>>>the cats can (and will) slip through long before I can get out.
>>
>>And if you try to move quickle enough to prevent that you either (a)
>>trip over a cat and bust your butt or (b) kick a cat across the room
>>or (c) do both.
>
>You know not how truly you speak! I've had CFS since 1984 (when
>I was first diagnosed, they were calling it Chronic Epstein-Barr,
>which turns out it isn't). But last October it got worse, and
>since then I have lost my balance and fallen nineteen times: I've
>been keeping count. Never from tripping over a cat, though. If
>I land on my butt, which is the usual outcome, I don't get hurt,
>but I need one (or preferably two) strong adults to lift me to my
>feet again. But if I fall in some other direction, I bend my
>toes backward, and they take about ten days to heal.
>
>So if I want to get out of bed to head to the bathroom or the
>book room or anywhere, I have to be withing reach of some
>bookcase or other piece of furniture to hold onto. And if I've
>munged my toes again, I have to take short shuffling steps, and
>each one hurts. (Because the normal human walk involves putting
>the foot down and then pushing off with the toes.)

This is something that my late 101 year old friend had to deal with
with his caretakers. They would rearrange the furniture for their
convenience and then he would have to have his friends rearrange it so
that he had support. He finally got a lawyer to beat it into their
heads that their job was to assist him with things that his body
wouldn't do anymore, not second guess his decisions on furniture
arrangement.

>>Not to mention that once the door is open 2 inches there's likely to
>>be a cat's paw in it.
>
>Nose, not paw, but the principle is the same.
>>
>[more unworkable suggestions shnipped]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 00:45:58 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <aommfg17c27j1bquhisjf2rirsnedu8o7s@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 23 Jul 2021 20:49:39 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <40543491-c48c-47f0-b5e5-a243db360ccbn@googlegroups.com>,
>>>Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The core problem here is not keeping the cats out. That can be done by
>>>>> shutting the door, which (as I understand it) is currently working
>>>>> quite well.
>>>>>
>>>>> The core problem is keeping the cats out while a person enters the
>>>>> room.
>>>>>
>>>>> Theorem: any barrier sufficient to stop the cats will also stop the
>>>>> person.
>>>>
>>>>The place with a door is in a hallway. There's a door to the room with
>>>>the books, yes. But there is no door to the hallway. If there were a door
>>>>to the hallway, the door to the room could be opened safely.
>>>>
>>>>Or the place with the books is more like a closet, so one can't close
>>>>the door while looking at the books.
>>>
>>>No, it's a full-sized bedroom, in the intention of whoever built
>>>it. And I can usually get *in* without them following, but then
>>>they hang around outside the door, and if I try to get out they
>>>get in. Hence having Hal stand guard.
>>
>>I just had a weird notion. Do they run from a vacuum cleaner?
>
>I have not yet attempted to find out. In spite of their ability
>to limit my access to the book rooms, I'm very fond of the cats,
>and I don't want to frighten them (our vacuum cleaner is a
>honking great ShopVac).

So much for my potential suggestion of a Scarecat ...

>At this moment, Misthlith is asleep on my lap and Stillfot is
>sitting on the printer by the window.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <scgofghuck8v9jdj0b9uca57ki9qrfafva@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 00:45:58 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>>In article <aommfg17c27j1bquhisjf2rirsnedu8o7s@4ax.com>,
>>J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>I just had a weird notion. Do they run from a vacuum cleaner?
>>
>>I have not yet attempted to find out. In spite of their ability
>>to limit my access to the book rooms, I'm very fond of the cats,
>>and I don't want to frighten them (our vacuum cleaner is a
>>honking great ShopVac).
>
>So much for my potential suggestion of a Scarecat ...

Leave it unsuggested.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 9:15:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <clatsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
> >On 24/07/2021 06:55, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <1q7rsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
> >> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
> >>> On 23/07/2021 23:13, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>> In article <333088f0-d53f-4318...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:25:04 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If they were actually dictating requirements one would expect the
> >>>>>> quality of the goods produced to be higher. Japan was the place tht
> >>>>>> dictated requirements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course, Soviet Russia was the place well known for having quotas
> >>>>> of making X number of tons of alarm clocks, without much concern
> >>>>> about whether or not they worked.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Which was an ineffective way to run the economy, but presumably it
> >>>>> was only applied to consumer goods, not military items.
> >>>>
> >>>> There was an old joke, from the fifties IIRC. A Russian is
> >>>> hauled in by the police for buying and using imported, instead of
> >>>> domestic, matches.
> >>>>
> >>>> His defense: "It is true that I use foreign matches--but only to
> >>>> light our People's matches!:
> >>>>
> >>>> And let's not forget the Yablotchka.
> >>>>
> >>> Okay, I'll bite: "Little Apple"???
> >>>
> >> It was a Russian knockoff of an early Apple model; I forget its
> >> official name. It didn't work as well as the original, either,
> >> which (IMO) is a very low bar.
> >>
> >Ah, thanx, I wonder how many of the Russians I've worked with over the
> >decades started out on something like that?
> >
> About that, I have no information. You might search the web for
> "Russian Apple imitation" or something. I don't know whether
> searching "Yablotchka", which was never its official name, would
> yield anything.

Presumably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agat_(computer) or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravetz_computers . The latter were made
in Bulgaria, but some models were apparently shipped to the USSR.

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:15:03 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Well, talk to your friend. Visit your friend and become
> acquainted with the cat. Run some of your cat-sequestering ideas
> past your friend, which will provoke much healthy merriment.

As it happens, I do visit that friend on a regular basis.

John Savard

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> But if I start to leave, they're
> out the door again before I can get out, and since the latch on
> the door is not the strongest, they can claw it open.

The obvious first step would be to repair the latch on the bathroom
door then. Of course, it could be that is a latch of a type which can
only be engaged from the inside, which would make it irrelevant.

I am surprised, though, that the cats never spend any significant
length of time in there eating.

John Savard

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:15:03 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:

> Well, talk to your friend. Visit your friend and become
> acquainted with the cat. Run some of your cat-sequestering ideas
> past your friend, which will provoke much healthy merriment.

Of course, my friend has only one cat, making sequestration of that
cat much less complicated.

Step 1: engage cat with cat toy, and lead it into a room.

Step 2: close the door of that room.

With two cats, especially if they're determined to resist temporary
sequestration by any means possible, it can be far more complicated.

John Savard

In article <c7f9c8f8-05e6-4f93-9bc0-7e9b9828b3dfn@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:10:04 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> But if I start to leave, they're
>> out the door again before I can get out, and since the latch on
>> the door is not the strongest, they can claw it open.
>
>The obvious first step would be to repair the latch on the bathroom
>door then. Of course, it could be that is a latch of a type which can
>only be engaged from the inside, which would make it irrelevant.

No, ordinary doorknob (with a lock to turn on the inside). It
just doesn't *quite* latch.
>
>I am surprised, though, that the cats never spend any significant
>length of time in there eating.

They eat when they're hungry, I guess. Not necessarily both at
the same time. But interestingly enough, when I get up to go to
the bathroom, both of them come charging in, eat kibble, drink
water, use the litterbox if they feel like it, and Misthlith (the
bold and friendly one) comes up to me to be petted. Stillfot
(the shy one) lies on the floor out of arm's reach.

And if I venture to close the door on them when they're both
inside, they make like greased lightning out the door.

To get them both confined inside the bathroom, we'd need two
able-bodied adults to pick them up toss them in, and firmly shut
the door.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <f4b1ab48-9a51-45b4-996e-17f00c7ffb0en@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:15:03 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Well, talk to your friend. Visit your friend and become
>> acquainted with the cat. Run some of your cat-sequestering ideas
>> past your friend, which will provoke much healthy merriment.
>
>As it happens, I do visit that friend on a regular basis.
>

Good! Get acquainted with the cat. You will learn something.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <1301940a-7071-43a0-9047-54c9363e6a2an@googlegroups.com>,
Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 7:15:03 AM UTC-6, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> Well, talk to your friend. Visit your friend and become
>> acquainted with the cat. Run some of your cat-sequestering ideas
>> past your friend, which will provoke much healthy merriment.
>
>Of course, my friend has only one cat, making sequestration of that
>cat much less complicated.
>
>Step 1: engage cat with cat toy, and lead it into a room.

With you inside the same room, or outside it?

>Step 2: close the door of that room.

Unless the cat escaped at the same time, or slightly before, you
did.

>With two cats, especially if they're determined to resist temporary
>sequestration by any means possible, it can be far more complicated.

Oh yes.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

In article <b9cffed0-b10f-4dc4-aab9-827baf52f356n@googlegroups.com>,
Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 9:15:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <clatsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
>> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>> >On 24/07/2021 06:55, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >> In article <1q7rsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
>> >> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
>> >>> On 23/07/2021 23:13, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> >>>> In article <333088f0-d53f-4318...@googlegroups.com>,
>> >>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:25:04 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> If they were actually dictating requirements one would expect the
>> >>>>>> quality of the goods produced to be higher. Japan was the place tht
>> >>>>>> dictated requirements.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Of course, Soviet Russia was the place well known for having quotas
>> >>>>> of making X number of tons of alarm clocks, without much concern
>> >>>>> about whether or not they worked.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Which was an ineffective way to run the economy, but presumably it
>> >>>>> was only applied to consumer goods, not military items.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There was an old joke, from the fifties IIRC. A Russian is
>> >>>> hauled in by the police for buying and using imported, instead of
>> >>>> domestic, matches.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> His defense: "It is true that I use foreign matches--but only to
>> >>>> light our People's matches!:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And let's not forget the Yablotchka.
>> >>>>
>> >>> Okay, I'll bite: "Little Apple"???
>> >>>
>> >> It was a Russian knockoff of an early Apple model; I forget its
>> >> official name. It didn't work as well as the original, either,
>> >> which (IMO) is a very low bar.
>> >>
>> >Ah, thanx, I wonder how many of the Russians I've worked with over the
>> >decades started out on something like that?
>> >
>> About that, I have no information. You might search the web for
>> "Russian Apple imitation" or something. I don't know whether
>> searching "Yablotchka", which was never its official name, would
>> yield anything.
>
>Presumably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agat_(computer) or
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravetz_computers . The latter were made
>in Bulgaria, but some models were apparently shipped to the USSR.

/two neurons that haven't spoken to each other in years meet up
and shake hands

Agat, yes, that was the name.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On Saturday, July 24, 2021 at 9:15:03 AM UTC-4, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <clatsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
> >On 24/07/2021 06:55, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >> In article <1q7rsh-...@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>,
> >> Gary R. Schmidt <grsc...@acm.org> wrote:
> >>> On 23/07/2021 23:13, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> >>>> In article <333088f0-d53f-4318...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>>> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, July 23, 2021 at 3:25:04 AM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> If they were actually dictating requirements one would expect the
> >>>>>> quality of the goods produced to be higher. Japan was the place tht
> >>>>>> dictated requirements.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Of course, Soviet Russia was the place well known for having quotas
> >>>>> of making X number of tons of alarm clocks, without much concern
> >>>>> about whether or not they worked.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Which was an ineffective way to run the economy, but presumably it
> >>>>> was only applied to consumer goods, not military items.
> >>>>
> >>>> There was an old joke, from the fifties IIRC. A Russian is
> >>>> hauled in by the police for buying and using imported, instead of
> >>>> domestic, matches.
> >>>>
> >>>> His defense: "It is true that I use foreign matches--but only to
> >>>> light our People's matches!:
> >>>>
> >>>> And let's not forget the Yablotchka.
> >>>>
> >>> Okay, I'll bite: "Little Apple"???
> >>>
> >> It was a Russian knockoff of an early Apple model; I forget its
> >> official name. It didn't work as well as the original, either,
> >> which (IMO) is a very low bar.
> >>
> >Ah, thanx, I wonder how many of the Russians I've worked with over the
> >decades started out on something like that?
> >
> About that, I have no information. You might search the web for
> "Russian Apple imitation" or something. I don't know whether
> searching "Yablotchka", which was never its official name, would
> yield anything.
> --
> Dorothy J. Heydt
> Vallejo, California
> djheydt at gmail dot com
> Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

It's the Agat. I remember articles from the time.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agat_(computer)

begin fnord
djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:

> Agat, yes, that was the name.

More on which:

https://www.filfre.net/2017/06/tales-of-the-mirror-world-part-2-from-mainframes-to-micros/

# It was called the *Agat* - just a pretty name, being Russian for the
# mineral agate - and it was largely a copy - in Bores's words a *bad*
# copy - of the Apple II...

--
Steve Coltrin spcoltri@omcl.org Google Groups killfiled here
"A group known as the League of Human Dignity helped arrange for Deuel
to be driven to a local livestock scale, where he could be weighed."
- Associated Press