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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

SubjectAuthor
* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Frank Berger
 +* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
 |`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Frank Berger
 | `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
 |  +* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forFrank Berger
 |  |`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
 |  | `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Frank Berger
 |  |  `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
 |  `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forPluted Pup
 |   `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
 |    `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forFrank Berger
 |     `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
 |      `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Frank Berger
 `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
  `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forFrank Berger
   `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    +* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
    |+* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Todd M. McComb
    ||`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Graham
    || +- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Todd M. McComb
    || +* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,HT
    || |`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forFrank Berger
    || | +* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |+- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,gggg gggg
    || | |`* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Frank Berger
    || | | `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |  `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |   `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |    +- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |    `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
    || | |     `* Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    || | |      `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,raymond....@gmail.com
    || | `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,HT
    || `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Todd M. McComb
    |`- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,Dan Koren
    `- Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust forFrank Berger

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Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

<f6db4f05-9a4e-450a-a368-ad7eae46e785n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:33 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:16:35 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/7/2023 6:28 PM, HT wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 7 februari 2023 om 23:52:05 UTC+1 schreef Graham:
> >
> >> Really? Which ones?
> >
> > As an orthodox atheist, Dawkins makes the same mistake as
> > orthodox theists. They do not differentiate between ways of being.
>
> There are different ways of being (or thinking) within the groups you
> mention. Not everyone is at the far extreme. I think there are people
> who are open to people disagreeing with them, not having closure on
> every issue and there are people who are the opposite. I don't think
> these personality traits have anything to do with sorting people into
> being theists or atheists.

The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.

dk

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

<59985c44-b698-425a-b5e5-22dde2cc8f1fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: ggggg9...@gmail.com (gggg gggg)
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 by: gggg gggg - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:40 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:33:30 PM UTC-8, dan....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:16:35 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 2/7/2023 6:28 PM, HT wrote:
> > > Op dinsdag 7 februari 2023 om 23:52:05 UTC+1 schreef Graham:
> > >
> > >> Really? Which ones?
> > >
> > > As an orthodox atheist, Dawkins makes the same mistake as
> > > orthodox theists. They do not differentiate between ways of being.
> >
> > There are different ways of being (or thinking) within the groups you
> > mention. Not everyone is at the far extreme. I think there are people
> > who are open to people disagreeing with them, not having closure on
> > every issue and there are people who are the opposite. I don't think
> > these personality traits have anything to do with sorting people into
> > being theists or atheists.
> The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
>
> dk

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+are+people+who+like+dogs+different+from+people+who+like+cats%3F&source=hp&ei=Me_iY82xIqX6kPIP7PW9-AY&iflsig=AK50M_UAAAAAY-L9QQYuYfRwnHTOPBbprjRLGuC4yaWg&ved=0ahUKEwiNjrjy14T9AhUlPUQIHex6D28Q4dUDCAo&uact=5&oq=how+are+people+who+like+dogs+different+from+people+who+like+cats%3F&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANQAFj4bGDjb2gAcAB4A4ABjAWIAYw3kgELNS41LjIuMS41LjWYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

<__GdncD-jKeZbX_-nZ2dnZfqnPhh4p2d@supernews.com>

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From: frankdbe...@gmail.com (Frank Berger)
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 by: Frank Berger - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:42 UTC

On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:16:35 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
>> On 2/7/2023 6:28 PM, HT wrote:
>>> Op dinsdag 7 februari 2023 om 23:52:05 UTC+1 schreef Graham:
>>>
>>>> Really? Which ones?
>>>
>>> As an orthodox atheist, Dawkins makes the same mistake as
>>> orthodox theists. They do not differentiate between ways of being.
>>
>> There are different ways of being (or thinking) within the groups you
>> mention. Not everyone is at the far extreme. I think there are people
>> who are open to people disagreeing with them, not having closure on
>> every issue and there are people who are the opposite. I don't think
>> these personality traits have anything to do with sorting people into
>> being theists or atheists.
>
> The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
>
> dk

I have no evidence to the contrary.

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

<ebddbaba-f925-4ea4-b8cb-a77cb2864edbn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:53 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:16:35 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 2/7/2023 6:28 PM, HT wrote:
> >>> Op dinsdag 7 februari 2023 om 23:52:05 UTC+1 schreef Graham:
> >>>
> >>>> Really? Which ones?
> >>>
> >>> As an orthodox atheist, Dawkins makes the same mistake as
> >>> orthodox theists. They do not differentiate between ways of being.
> >>
> >> There are different ways of being (or thinking) within the groups you
> >> mention. Not everyone is at the far extreme. I think there are people
> >> who are open to people disagreeing with them, not having closure on
> >> every issue and there are people who are the opposite. I don't think
> >> these personality traits have anything to do with sorting people into
> >> being theists or atheists.
> >
> > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
>
> I have no evidence to the contrary.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/

dk

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

<8d37bd2f-2016-4ff2-91e6-3e2a10291d09n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:56 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
> >
> > I have no evidence to the contrary.
>
> https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
>

https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 00:57 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
> > >
> > > I have no evidence to the contrary.
> >
> > https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
> >
> https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634

Cats are far more musical! ;-)

dk

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 01:11 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:57:28 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
> > > >
> > > > I have no evidence to the contrary.
> > >
> > > https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
> > >
> > https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634
>
> Cats are far more musical! ;-)

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6616c0655a86b70b490e95f55e357aa2-lq

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 03:06 UTC

On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 11:57:28 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
> > > >
> > > > I have no evidence to the contrary.
> > >
> > > https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
> > >
> > https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634
> Cats are far more musical! ;-)
>
> dk

Dogs have owners, cats have staff.

Ray Hall, Taree

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: hvtu...@xs4all.nl (HT)
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 by: HT - Wed, 8 Feb 2023 10:41 UTC

Op woensdag 8 februari 2023 om 01:16:35 UTC+1 schreef Frank Berger:

> There are different ways of being (or thinking) within the groups you mention. Not everyone is at the far extreme. I think there are people who are open to people disagreeing with them, not having closure on every issue and there are people who are the opposite. I don't think these personality traits have anything to do with sorting people into being theists or atheists.

There are all kinds of atheists and theists. Dawkins polemicises with those orthodox theists who believe that there is a supernatural being that somehow manifests itself in the world. According to him, no such being exists - as if manifesting itself in the world were the only way of being.

Henk

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2023 23:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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References: <76827df7-1ee2-4c80-85a4-4c8350264d21@googlegroups.com> <a3388721-5f67-4467-a240-4248592cc3ban@googlegroups.com> <trujkh$is4$1@hope.eyrie.org> <kCAEL.350965$t5W7.18281@fx13.iad>
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Sun, 11 Jun 2023 23:40 UTC

In article <kCAEL.350965$t5W7.18281@fx13.iad>,
Graham <g.stereo@shaw.ca> wrote:
>On 2023-02-07 3:33 p.m., Todd M. McComb wrote:
>>Dawkins is a real jerk (& his ideas are stupid too).
>Really? Which ones?

Obviously my earlier response didn't shed much light on my view,
and in hindsight, I've come to regret that decision. I didn't want
to continue (much) down an off-topic path though, and still don't,
so to attempt brevity....

A basic crux of my disagreement with Dawkins involves his equation
of religion with theism (an equation that happens to suit his
particular purposes...). As opposed to its content, the structure
of religion per se is about social relation, and specifically the
intergenerational transfer of knowledge. It therefore hinges on
education, and as such, by its nature, religion MUST pass through
the minds of children. Moreover, something WILL pass through the
minds of children, so there's no way simply to avoid this. So when
Dawkins, in the tradition of Hobbes, implies that adult men arrive
to the scene ex nihilo, ready to make "scientific" determinations,
he is factually/contextually mistaken regarding the phenomenon he
is attempting to discuss.

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: dan.ko...@gmail.com (Dan Koren)
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 by: Dan Koren - Mon, 12 Jun 2023 03:11 UTC

On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 7:06:13 PM UTC-8, raymond....@gmail..com wrote:
> On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 11:57:28 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > > > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats..
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no evidence to the contrary.
> > > >
> > > > https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
> > > >
> > > https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634
> >
> > Cats are far more musical! ;-)
>
> Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
>
> Ray Hall, Taree

A dog is a dog, a cat is a person.

dk

Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness, and lust for power?

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Subject: Re: OT?: Is our era about vanity, heroic striving, moral blindness,
and lust for power?
From: raymond....@gmail.com (raymond....@gmail.com)
Injection-Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 07:24:53 +0000
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 by: raymond....@gmail.co - Mon, 12 Jun 2023 07:24 UTC

On Monday, 12 June 2023 at 13:11:55 UTC+10, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 7:06:13 PM UTC-8, raymond....gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 11:57:28 UTC+11, dan....gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:56:15 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:53:50 PM UTC-8, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 4:42:52 PM UTC-8, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > > > On 2/7/2023 7:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The best criterion for sorting people and the most accurate predictor
> > > > > > > of personality and behavior is whether they prefer dogs or cats.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no evidence to the contrary.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://thoughtcatalog.com/lorenzo-jensen-iii/2015/06/17-basic-differences-between-dog-people-and-cat-people/
> > > > >
> > > > https://www.newsweek.com/differences-between-dog-people-cat-people-pet-personalities-1648634
> > >
> > > Cats are far more musical! ;-)
> >
> > Dogs have owners, cats have staff.
> >
> > Ray Hall, Taree
> A dog is a dog, a cat is a person.
>
> dk

My dog thanks you for an acute observation and is now resting even more content.

Ray Hall, Taree

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