In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8-b629-56467d2fb19fn@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
>> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>> >
>> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>> --
>> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
>> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
>> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
>> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
>
>May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>have a majority at present?

It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
respect that the Liberals were bad. If you've ever wondered "how
exactly is the party whose leader appeared in brown face not the most
racist party?" have a gander at the last Canadian federal election.

Liberals 155 [soulless technocrats beholden to big business]
Conservatives 119 [Social conservatives beholden to big business]
Bloc Quebecois 32 [Quebec nationalists]
New Democratic Party 24 [Social Democrats]
Green Party 2 [Tree huggers]
Independents 5 [MP who didn't fit in with parties]
Vacant 1 [Not filled at present]
Total 338

There are a bunch of parties with official status that didn't win any seats.
The People's Party, for example, is for people who are too openly racist
for the CPC. Note that the CPC has members who are nostalgic for residential
schools, currently Canada's greatest source of unmarked graves of children.

--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <sf96p8$q92$1@reader1.panix.com>,
James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
>In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8-b629-56467d2fb19fn@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
>>> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>>> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>>> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>>> >
>>> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>>> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>>> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>>> --
>>> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
>>> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
>>> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
>>> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
>>
>>May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>>have a majority at present?
>
>It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>respect that the Liberals were bad. If you've ever wondered "how
>exactly is the party whose leader appeared in brown face not the most
>racist party?" have a gander at the last Canadian federal election.
>
>Liberals 155 [soulless technocrats beholden to big business]
>Conservatives 119 [Social conservatives beholden to big business]

A big difference is that while the LPC will pay lip service to various
progressive causes without following through, the CPC will go out of their
way to be dicks (cutting funding for a bunch of women's services on
International Women's Day). It's the difference between offering bandaid
solutions before pocketing the box of bandaids and gleefully vivisecting
a screaming victim.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> >> >
> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> >
> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> >have a majority at present?
> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
> respect that the Liberals were bad. If you've ever wondered "how
> exactly is the party whose leader appeared in brown face not the most
> racist party?" have a gander at the last Canadian federal election.
>
> Liberals 155 [soulless technocrats beholden to big business]
> Conservatives 119 [Social conservatives beholden to big business]
> Bloc Quebecois 32 [Quebec nationalists]
> New Democratic Party 24 [Social Democrats]
> Green Party 2 [Tree huggers]
> Independents 5 [MP who didn't fit in with parties]
> Vacant 1 [Not filled at present]
> Total 338

Bloc Quebecois in third place...
If BQ gained a majority, do you think they would require or refuse other provinces' secession?

--
-Jack

In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>
> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.

I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."

--
Leif Roar Moldskred

On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> >> >
> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> >> --
> >> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> >> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> >> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> >> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
> >
> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> >have a majority at present?
>
> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]

Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
However, it may be that when The People think you're
doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
oppose a government party in the elections in between
national government elections.

There comes to mind from Britain - where having the
election has been sometimes the government's choice,
and sometimes not - the "Who Governs Britain?" campaign
in 1974.
<http://www.historymatters.group.shef.ac.uk/2017-1974-governs-britain/>

I was and am not sure whether the last "Labour"
government under Gordon Brown really considered
holding a relatively early election - voluntarily leaving
government - to get another majority; in the end, they
did neither. I think they never admitted that it was
planned, it was the other side mostly talking about it,
so, true or not true, it was being used to make the
government... I'll say "less popular". They did lose.

Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:

>>I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.

>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."

And You Only Live Twice, but I can't forgive him for killing Aki.

In article <28156dd2-0d97-4793-89bc-b3e7c06b3df2n@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
>upcoming
>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>> >
>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>> >have a majority at present?
>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>> respect that the Liberals were bad. If you've ever wondered "how
>> exactly is the party whose leader appeared in brown face not the most
>> racist party?" have a gander at the last Canadian federal election.
>>
>> Liberals 155 [soulless technocrats beholden to big business]
>> Conservatives 119 [Social conservatives beholden to big business]
>> Bloc Quebecois 32 [Quebec nationalists]
>> New Democratic Party 24 [Social Democrats]
>> Green Party 2 [Tree huggers]
>> Independents 5 [MP who didn't fit in with parties]
>> Vacant 1 [Not filled at present]
>> Total 338
>
>Bloc Quebecois in third place...
>If BQ gained a majority, do you think they would require or refuse other
>provinces' secession?

Not mathematically possible as they only run within Quebec, which
has 78 seats.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3-8606-93a44b0445c0n@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
>upcoming
>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>> >> >
>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>> >
>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>> >have a majority at present?
>>
>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]
>
>Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
>However, it may be that when The People think you're
>doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
>oppose a government party in the elections in between
>national government elections.

There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because
they cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one
other party, they have to actually work with the other parties
rather than behaving like getting 40 percent of the vote was a
mandate from God. The downside is if the other party happens to
be cunning extremists willing to trade support for unsavoury
legislative favours.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 01:36:39 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
Nicoll) wrote:

>In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3-8606-93a44b0445c0n@googlegroups.com>,
>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
>>upcoming
>>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>>> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>>> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>>> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>>> >
>>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>>> >have a majority at present?
>>>
>>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]
>>
>>Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
>>However, it may be that when The People think you're
>>doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
>>oppose a government party in the elections in between
>>national government elections.
>
>There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because
>they cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one
>other party, they have to actually work with the other parties
>rather than behaving like getting 40 percent of the vote was a
>mandate from God. The downside is if the other party happens to
>be cunning extremists willing to trade support for unsavoury
>legislative favours.

The ugly side of democracy--a group that gets a 1 vote majority in
each house of the legislature based on the votes of a third of the
population thinks that it can run roughshod over the rest and these
days doesn't see anything wrong with that.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 00:58:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>
>>>I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>>movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>>that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>
>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."
>
>And You Only Live Twice, but I can't forgive him for killing Aki.

It's been so long I have forgotten whether Aki is in the book and, if
she is, whether she dies.

In the film this is necessary to clear the decks for his cover.
Traditional Family Values can be a bitch.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:19:11 -0500, Leif Roar Moldskred
<leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:

>In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>
>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."

I didn't enjoy "Fantasic Mr. Fox": I kept /hearing/ the Famous Actor,
but never /seeing/ him. What can I say? Other than this is the only
instance of that particular problem I can recall.

"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was a great film, even if the middle is a
bit of a muddle. At least, the VHS/DVD versions were; I don't recall
noticing this when I saw it in the theater.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <rlfihg1d04een81fa105rj7865uik73dcl@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:19:11 -0500, Leif Roar Moldskred
><leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>
>>In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>>
>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."
>
>I didn't enjoy "Fantasic Mr. Fox": I kept /hearing/ the Famous Actor,
>but never /seeing/ him. What can I say? Other than this is the only
>instance of that particular problem I can recall.

I thought it was rather minor when I saw it: OK, but no big deal.

>
>"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was a great film, even if the middle is a
>bit of a muddle. At least, the VHS/DVD versions were; I don't recall
>noticing this when I saw it in the theater.

I liked it when I saw it, but I was 7. Later I read the book and liked
that better. (BTW, there's a sequel: Chitty is back, and she's a camper!
[No, I didn't read it])
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>Sun, 15 Aug 2021 00:58:16 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>>Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:

>>>>I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>>>movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>>>that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.

>>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."

>>And You Only Live Twice, but I can't forgive him for killing Aki.

>It's been so long I have forgotten whether Aki is in the book and, if
>she is, whether she dies.

Aki was created for the movie. Kissy is in the novel but a somewhat
different character.

>In the film this is necessary to clear the decks for his cover.
>Traditional Family Values can be a bitch.

Dahl has said he felt he was olbiged to write to some formula in which
one of Bond's lovers dies at a certain point (spurring on Bond's later
actions), but he accidentally created an unforgetable Bond girl with an
unnecessary and unsatisfying death. Bond was hardly affected by it.

He was never asked back to write another screenplay for anyone after
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:52:08 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 01:36:39 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>
>>In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3-8606-93a44b0445c0n@googlegroups.com>,
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures
>>>> >> >into the
>>>upcoming
>>>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of
>>>> >> >Canada's courageous opening shot, which begins with accusations
>>>> >> >that the Liberals want a majority and then... Well, see for
>>>> >> >yourselves.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>>>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered
>>>> >> political party that has formed national governments in recent
>>>> >> memory.
>>>> >
>>>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government have a
>>>> >majority at present?
>>>>
>>>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>>>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>>>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>>>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed
>>>> explanation]
>>>
>>>Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
>>>However, it may be that when The People think you're doing that, then
>>>they will oppose it. Rather as they oppose a government party in the
>>>elections in between national government elections.
>>
>>There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because they
>>cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one other party,
>>they have to actually work with the other parties rather than behaving
>>like getting 40 percent of the vote was a mandate from God. The downside
>>is if the other party happens to be cunning extremists willing to trade
>>support for unsavoury legislative favours.
>
> The ugly side of democracy--a group that gets a 1 vote majority in each
> house of the legislature based on the votes of a third of the population
> thinks that it can run roughshod over the rest and these days doesn't
> see anything wrong with that.

I was about to write that it had always been that way but the truth is it
had always been tempered by a sense of self-preservation if nothing else
in most politicians. But nowadays there are way too many, I was going to
say stupid but that is not quite correct, thoughtless puppets and true
believers running for and winning offices.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 18:26:17 -0000 (UTC), Magewolf
<Magewolf@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 21:52:08 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 01:36:39 -0000 (UTC), jdnicoll@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3-8606-93a44b0445c0n@googlegroups.com>,
>>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>>>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures
>>>>> >> >into the
>>>>upcoming
>>>>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of
>>>>> >> >Canada's courageous opening shot, which begins with accusations
>>>>> >> >that the Liberals want a majority and then... Well, see for
>>>>> >> >yourselves.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>>>>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered
>>>>> >> political party that has formed national governments in recent
>>>>> >> memory.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government have a
>>>>> >majority at present?
>>>>>
>>>>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>>>>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>>>>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>>>>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed
>>>>> explanation]
>>>>
>>>>Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
>>>>However, it may be that when The People think you're doing that, then
>>>>they will oppose it. Rather as they oppose a government party in the
>>>>elections in between national government elections.
>>>
>>>There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because they
>>>cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one other party,
>>>they have to actually work with the other parties rather than behaving
>>>like getting 40 percent of the vote was a mandate from God. The downside
>>>is if the other party happens to be cunning extremists willing to trade
>>>support for unsavoury legislative favours.
>>
>> The ugly side of democracy--a group that gets a 1 vote majority in each
>> house of the legislature based on the votes of a third of the population
>> thinks that it can run roughshod over the rest and these days doesn't
>> see anything wrong with that.
>
>I was about to write that it had always been that way but the truth is it
>had always been tempered by a sense of self-preservation if nothing else
>in most politicians. But nowadays there are way too many, I was going to
>say stupid but that is not quite correct, thoughtless puppets and true
>believers running for and winning offices.

These days I'm seeing rhetoric from some (fortunately not very
influential as yet) members of the one-vote-majority party to the
effect that the one-vote-minority party should be rounded up and put
in concentration camps. If the nuts are thinking it now, 20 years
from now it's likely to be mainstream.

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 3:43:14 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 12:20:41 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> >> >
> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> >> --
> >> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> >> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> >> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> >> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
> >
> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> >have a majority at present?
> Canada is not like the US. Canada has a bunch of different political
> parties with significant presence. In the House of Commons the
> largest block is the liberals with 155 out of 338. Senators are
> appointed, not elected, so while they have affiliations they don't
> really mean as much.

Correct. But the current government disowned the liberal group in the senate and
appoints only "independent" senators. Most of them look like liberals, or more
left-leaning types, but there is no liberal whip. The rump of the Liberal caucus
are now the "progressive" group - a name the conservatives carelessly abandoned
some years ago. Formally, there are no liberal senators for the first time since
confederation.

Of course, future governments, or even this one, can reverse that policy at any time.

William Hyde

On Saturday, August 14, 2021 at 6:42:12 PM UTC-4, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> > In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> > >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> > >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> > >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> > >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the upcoming
> > >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> > >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> > >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> > >> >
> > >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> > >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> > >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> > >> --
> > >> My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
> > >> My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
> > >> My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
> > >> My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
> > >
> > >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> > >have a majority at present?
> >
> > It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
> > last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
> > that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
> > respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]
>
> Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
> However, it may be that when The People think you're
> doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
> oppose a government party in the elections in between
> national government elections.

Governments calling premature elections in Canada have been
punished severely in the past. But in most cases these were
majority governments. The electorate has generally been kinder
to minority governments calling early elections, as in British
Columbia recently.

But maybe not this time, what with the plague and all.

>
> There comes to mind from Britain - where having the
> election has been sometimes the government's choice,
> and sometimes not - the "Who Governs Britain?" campaign
> in 1974.

Same system here, but with a terrible and generally ignored law calling for
elections every four years, hypocritically passed by the conservatives
about a decade ago.

In theory the GG could have declined Trudeau's call for an election and asked Mr O'Toole
to form a government. In practice he'd have zero chance of that, so an election it is.

William Hyde

In article <4631f404-4f66-4bc7-8dc5-e36da07498b9n@googlegroups.com>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Same system here, but with a terrible and generally ignored law calling for
>elections every four years, hypocritically passed by the conservatives
>about a decade ago.
>
Who were, if I recall, the first people to ignore that law.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

James Nicoll wrote:
> In article <28156dd2-0d97-4793...@googlegroups.com>,
> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >James Nicoll wrote:
> >> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
> >upcoming
> >> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> >> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> >> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> >> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> >> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> >> >
> >> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> >> >have a majority at present?
> >> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
> >> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
> >> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
> >> respect that the Liberals were bad. If you've ever wondered "how
> >> exactly is the party whose leader appeared in brown face not the most
> >> racist party?" have a gander at the last Canadian federal election.
> >>
> >> Liberals 155 [soulless technocrats beholden to big business]
> >> Conservatives 119 [Social conservatives beholden to big business]
> >> Bloc Quebecois 32 [Quebec nationalists]
> >> New Democratic Party 24 [Social Democrats]
> >> Green Party 2 [Tree huggers]
> >> Independents 5 [MP who didn't fit in with parties]
> >> Vacant 1 [Not filled at present]
> >> Total 338
> >
> >Bloc Quebecois in third place...
> >If BQ gained a majority, do you think they would require or refuse other
> >provinces' secession?
> Not mathematically possible as they only run within Quebec, which
> has 78 seats.

Well, how are they going to accomplish anything if they don't think outside the Quebox! (Queboboîte)
I know I'll take any movement to distance California from the US, or make Texas a whole other country seriously when they set up offices in each other's state. I'm not taking our efforts seriously, and I'm sure there's political reasons why Bloc Quebecois isn't what it looks like: of 78 seats, 32 filled with people who don't want to be there, who think there is only one question worth debating, and who know the answer to it.

--
-Jack

On Sunday, 15 August 2021 at 02:52:13 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 01:36:39 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
> Nicoll) wrote:
>
> >In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3...@googlegroups.com>,
> >Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
> >>> >On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
> >>> >> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> >>> >> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
> >>upcoming
> >>> >> >Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
> >>> >> >opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
> >>> >> >and then... Well, see for yourselves.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
> >>> >> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
> >>> >> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
> >>> >
> >>> >May I ask for further clarification: does the government
> >>> >have a majority at present?
> >>>
> >>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
> >>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
> >>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
> >>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]
> >>
> >>Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
> >>However, it may be that when The People think you're
> >>doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
> >>oppose a government party in the elections in between
> >>national government elections.
> >
> >There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because
> >they cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one
> >other party, they have to actually work with the other parties
> >rather than behaving like getting 40 percent of the vote was a
> >mandate from God. The downside is if the other party happens to
> >be cunning extremists willing to trade support for unsavoury
> >legislative favours.
> The ugly side of democracy--a group that gets a 1 vote majority in
> each house of the legislature based on the votes of a third of the
> population thinks that it can run roughshod over the rest and these
> days doesn't see anything wrong with that.

It may be so at present where you're speaking from, but
in general, a party's power to approve legislation consists
of individual elected representatives' votes, and those
individuals will each have their own principles. They may
not be good principles, so you get things like stocking
the International Space Station larder with tinned food
from all 50 states of the U.S. so that representatives
collectively agree to pay for the grocery bill.

ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) writes:

> In article <rlfihg1d04een81fa105rj7865uik73dcl@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:19:11 -0500, Leif Roar Moldskred
>><leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>
>>>In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>>> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>>> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>>>
>>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."
>>
>>I didn't enjoy "Fantasic Mr. Fox": I kept /hearing/ the Famous Actor,
>>but never /seeing/ him. What can I say? Other than this is the only
>>instance of that particular problem I can recall.
>
> I thought it was rather minor when I saw it: OK, but no big deal.
>
>>
>>"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was a great film, even if the middle is a
>>bit of a muddle. At least, the VHS/DVD versions were; I don't recall
>>noticing this when I saw it in the theater.
>
> I liked it when I saw it, but I was 7. Later I read the book and liked
> that better. (BTW, there's a sequel: Chitty is back, and she's a camper!
> [No, I didn't read it])

The wikipedia synopsis sounds awful, but did lead me to a bit of trivia
I don't remember knowing before: there were several actual race cars named
"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang", which apparently were the inspiration for the
book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitty_Bang_Bang

On 8/15/2021 3:08 PM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On Sunday, 15 August 2021 at 02:52:13 UTC+1, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 01:36:39 -0000 (UTC), jdni...@panix.com (James
>> Nicoll) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <6a40e9aa-c1dc-4db3...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 20:50:03 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>> In article <1435bab3-03e0-4de8...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Saturday, 14 August 2021 at 18:41:57 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <sf8v0r$nmb$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
>>>>>>> James Nicoll <jdni...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Bizarrely, the 1960s film adaptation of Willy Wonka now figures into the
>>>> upcoming
>>>>>>>> Canadian federal election due to the Conservative Party of Canada's courageous
>>>>>>>> opening shot, which begins with accusations that the Liberals want a majority
>>>>>>>> and then... Well, see for yourselves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/CPC_HQ/status/1426242355422765056
>>>>>>> I feel like I need to clarify that this came from a registered political
>>>>>>> party that has formed national governments in recent memory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May I ask for further clarification: does the government
>>>>>> have a majority at present?
>>>>>
>>>>> It does not! It is 15 seats short, having fucked up badly before the
>>>>> last election but not quite badly enough for people not to understand
>>>>> that almost every alternative save the NDP would be worse in every
>>>>> respect that the Liberals were bad. [snip excellent detailed explanation]
>>>>
>>>> Then running for a majority seems perfectly reasonable.
>>>> However, it may be that when The People think you're
>>>> doing that, then they will oppose it. Rather as they
>>>> oppose a government party in the elections in between
>>>> national government elections.
>>>
>>> There is an upside to minority governments, which is that because
>>> they cannot pass legislation without the support of at least one
>>> other party, they have to actually work with the other parties
>>> rather than behaving like getting 40 percent of the vote was a
>>> mandate from God. The downside is if the other party happens to
>>> be cunning extremists willing to trade support for unsavoury
>>> legislative favours.
>> The ugly side of democracy--a group that gets a 1 vote majority in
>> each house of the legislature based on the votes of a third of the
>> population thinks that it can run roughshod over the rest and these
>> days doesn't see anything wrong with that.
>
> It may be so at present where you're speaking from, but
> in general, a party's power to approve legislation consists
> of individual elected representatives' votes, and those
> individuals will each have their own principles.
>
That all depends on whether or not the Party can effectively weed out
candidates who won't toe the Party line. There are analysis of American
voting that indicate that the party primary systems here are giving the
two major parties that ability and are driving the two parties farther
and farther apart.

--
Troll, troll, troll your post gently down the thread
Angrily, angrily, angrily, the net's a nut's scream.

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 9:37:28 PM UTC-4, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

[snip]

> That all depends on whether or not the Party can effectively weed out
> candidates who won't toe the Party line. There are analysis of American
> voting that indicate that the party primary systems here are giving the
> two major parties that ability and are driving the two parties farther
> and farther apart.
>
> --

The ostensible reason for instituting primaries in US elections was to
take the selection of candidates away from "party bosses" backed by
"party regulars." AOC defeating a long-term incumbent in a district with
negligible GOP opposition and strolling to a seat in Congress matches
that but for turnout being far lower in the primary and so much lower
than in a biennial November (general) election: under 12% of registered
voters.

https://www.gothamgazette.com/state/7774-a-closer-look-at-voter-turnout-in-2018-new-york-congressional-primaries

An energized but small base of activists can catch a presumably entrenched
incumbent napping in a primary, and where a party has an overwhelming
registration edge, that can be tantamount to election. On the Republican side,
primary fights between go-along-get-along representatives and "movement
conservatives" backed by PACs hunting mugwumps and "RINOs" aren't unknown.
Today those looking for scalps are Trumpistas. A decade or two back it was
the Club For Growth that funded anti-tax upstarts in Republican primaries.
If the incumbent was also a squish on the Second Amendment and abortion ,
he might to have an exit strategy to K Street or a local university's "chair we
keep around for retiring pols."

Ocasio-Cortez's 2018 primary opponent appeared as the "Working Families"
candidate. The WFP probably assumed it would be cross-endorsing the
Democratic incumbent. Rep. Crowley didn't campaign ,and the 3rd party ran
up the white (pink?) flag. {WFP is the "spiritual descendant" of Alex Rose's
old Liberal Party. New York is one of the thee US States that allow cross-
endorsements aka "fusion ." }

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-vote-against-joe-crowley-in-november-20180724-story.html {Op-ed by Dan Cantor}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fusion#United_States

In 1970, James Buckley (William F's "sainted brother") wrested the US Senate
seat that Charles Goodell, after RFK's murder, had been appointed to by Gov
Nelson Rockefeller. Buckley ran on the "Conservative Party" line, and some '
county GOP organizations blurred Goodell's name on the sample ballots
mailed to folks' houses. Jim B won with less than 40% of the vote, NY not
having a runoff*.

"Regulars" and "Reformers" have battled over control of state party
organizations for a long time. The labels may change, but issue sets
aside, there 's always been a large component of the outs wanting their
hands on the controls for other than policy reasons: control of patronage,
old grudges, personal prestige, rising expectations of various ethnic and/
or religious groups, yada, yada, yada.

* I was about to turn 14, was in my first year of high school and was
a tyro debater. I inhaled all available media about this race. I didn't
volunteer for anyone, but I did wear a button .

--
Kevin R

On 15 Aug 2021 16:31:15 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
<tednolan>) wrote:

>In article <rlfihg1d04een81fa105rj7865uik73dcl@4ax.com>,
>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:19:11 -0500, Leif Roar Moldskred
>><leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>
>>>In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>>> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>>> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>>>
>>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."
>>
>>I didn't enjoy "Fantasic Mr. Fox": I kept /hearing/ the Famous Actor,
>>but never /seeing/ him. What can I say? Other than this is the only
>>instance of that particular problem I can recall.
>
>I thought it was rather minor when I saw it: OK, but no big deal.
>
>>
>>"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was a great film, even if the middle is a
>>bit of a muddle. At least, the VHS/DVD versions were; I don't recall
>>noticing this when I saw it in the theater.
>
>I liked it when I saw it, but I was 7. Later I read the book and liked
>that better. (BTW, there's a sequel: Chitty is back, and she's a camper!
>[No, I didn't read it])

Let me guess:

Fleming didn't write it.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On 15 Aug 2021 16:31:15 GMT, ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan
><tednolan>) wrote:
>
>>In article <rlfihg1d04een81fa105rj7865uik73dcl@4ax.com>,
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 14 Aug 2021 17:19:11 -0500, Leif Roar Moldskred
>>><leifm@huldreheim.Home> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In rec.arts.sf.written Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I forgot, the other well-known Roald Dahl book turned into a recent-ish
>>>>> movie is "The BFG". For some reason (maybe it was too new at the time)
>>>>> that story isn't included in my old box-set of Dalh books.
>>>>
>>>>I'd argue that "The Witches" is better known than both "James and the
>>>>Giant Peach" and "The BFG". There are also movie adaptions of "Danny,
>>>>the Champion of the World" and "Fantastic Mr. Fox." Dahl also wrote
>>>>the script for the movie "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang."
>>>
>>>I didn't enjoy "Fantasic Mr. Fox": I kept /hearing/ the Famous Actor,
>>>but never /seeing/ him. What can I say? Other than this is the only
>>>instance of that particular problem I can recall.
>>
>>I thought it was rather minor when I saw it: OK, but no big deal.
>>
>>>
>>>"Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" was a great film, even if the middle is a
>>>bit of a muddle. At least, the VHS/DVD versions were; I don't recall
>>>noticing this when I saw it in the theater.
>>
>>I liked it when I saw it, but I was 7. Later I read the book and liked
>>that better. (BTW, there's a sequel: Chitty is back, and she's a camper!
>>[No, I didn't read it])
>
>Let me guess:
>
>Fleming didn't write it.

Considering Fleming had died...

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was published posthumously.